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Author Topic: Damn you, Gary Grigsby! (World at War)  (Read 2001 times)
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Wolves
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« on: January 16, 2007, 06:16:58 AM »

I don't play too many pc games these days, but I bought Gary Grigsby's World at War about a year ago (or whenever it came out), played it a bit and never really got into it. (think of Axis and Allies, but more complicated)

I'll save you the boring story of how this came about, but I started playing it again and I started to make a bit of progress, then last night at 10:30 pm, armed with a little better understanding of the game and a few strategies I dove into 1939...this time, my plans were a little more thought out. As much as I wanted to be British, I used Germany because...well, it's fun to be an agressor. I was surviving alot longer....and was even at the gates of Moscow at one point....until I noticed Japan was even closer to kicking the bucket so I had to divert resources to them and as I did Russia regained alot of strength....the power struggle kept shifting back and forth....I plunged almost all of my research points into every option of Dive bombers and Armour and then slated my factories to produce almost nothing except these things....It was now Summer '44 and and all Allied invasion attempts and temporary landings had been repelled. I was really glad that things were finally going (mostly) right, I wasn't exactly sure what time it was, but I knew it was late, so I went for a quick shower and came back and played some more.

It is now some time in 1948 and the war is still on! Despite my hatred of saving games like this (for fear of forgetting my local or even global strategies), I had to due to needing sleep before going into afternoon shift.......that's when I noticed it was 9:00 A.M!!!!!
So, aside from the quick shower, I played for 10 AND A HALF HOURS!!!  eek

I've now banned this game for 2 weeks for massive time burglary.
Damn you, Gary Grigsby, damn you to hell!  crybaby

Seriously, great game though.
If you've ever got some time to kill (like an entire non-stop week), or just want to lose weight without exercising
, give it a shot.
 thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

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stiffler
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2007, 11:44:17 PM »

Now that is a testimonial!

I'll have to read up on it.  I don't know much about this one, but I do like some strategy.  I've always been partial to the old Operational Art of War series.  Mostly because it took me a good long while to figure it out and don't know if I can handle another crazy learning curve.  Oh, and OPART runs on my ancient laptop.
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jpinard
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2007, 05:27:11 AM »

I hate to say this... but you should get really get WaW - A World Divided.  It's significantly better than it's forerunner (the one you're playing).  For a while they were running a deal for 35% off to owners of the original WaW.
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Wolves
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 05:13:01 AM »

Quote from: stiffler on January 16, 2007, 11:44:17 PM

Now that is a testimonial!

I'll have to read up on it.  I don't know much about this one, but I do like some strategy.  I've always been partial to the old Operational Art of War series.  Mostly because it took me a good long while to figure it out and don't know if I can handle another crazy learning curve.  Oh, and OPART runs on my ancient laptop.

I haven't played Operational Art of War, so I can't compare it to that, but yeah, WaW has the same type of feel as the PC version of Axis and Allies (except alot more in depth...and difficult, well at this point anyway).
If you don't have Axis and Allies, I'd recommend getting a copy(although, it's rather old, I'm not sure how you'd get one besides maybe E-bay) and see how you like that since it's alot easier to learn. Once you can kick ass with all the countries on even the hardest difficulty move on to this, (well, assuming you liked A&A of course).
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Wolves
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 05:20:41 AM »

Quote from: jpinard on January 17, 2007, 05:27:11 AM

I hate to say this... but you should get really get WaW - A World Divided.  It's significantly better than it's forerunner (the one you're playing).  For a while they were running a deal for 35% off to owners of the original WaW.

..there's.....ANOTHER ONE?  retard

Ha! That's crazy, I checked the site and it looks pretty cool! I like how the war can be continued as The U.S./British VS the Soviets after the Axis Defeat. Also, the way the armies are done in little rectangles just like you see in old war maps is very cool as well, not to mention the use of spies and such. Still though, I'm not going near that game until this one is finished through and through. I'm still learning this one, and I'm on the easy setting, but once I master it, I'll definitely be playing the new version. In the meantime, I might just pick it up somewhere if I see, just so I don't have to try to track it down after it's out of print.
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2007, 02:31:07 AM »

I enjoyed Axis and Allies, but the newer PC ones didn't really click with me.  I think they tried too hard to add more to the game, which took away from the original board game which I loved so much.  If you are interested in a PC version of the original A&A board game check out some ambandoned sites for "Dogs of War."  It even looks like the original game board scanned in!  I actually owned the shareware version and mailed off for the registration code, playing it online with people before the company that put it out was forced to pull it so the official A&A games could come out.

This looks like fun.  I will definately try out the other one that was reccomended.

Here is an OPART III screen.  Now you can see why someone with no military training might have taken quite some time figuring it all out. icon_biggrin

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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2007, 02:34:39 AM »

Quote from: stiffler on January 16, 2007, 11:44:17 PM

Now that is a testimonial!

I'll have to read up on it.  I don't know much about this one, but I do like some strategy.  I've always been partial to the old Operational Art of War series.  Mostly because it took me a good long while to figure it out and don't know if I can handle another crazy learning curve.  Oh, and OPART runs on my ancient laptop.
I really like OpArtIII. I played OpArt 1 when it came out a whole lot, and I always wanted to play it again and was in heaven when Matrix rereleased it.
I'm also looking forward to the Battlefield series, whenever they get around to those.
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Wolves
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2007, 12:57:36 AM »

Quote from: stiffler on January 19, 2007, 02:31:07 AM

Here is an OPART III screen.  Now you can see why someone with no military training might have taken quite some time figuring it all out. icon_biggrin

Yeah, I can see how ANYONE would take a while to figure that one out!   crybaby
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Wolves
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2007, 01:23:13 AM »

Ok, first of all, I've been meaning to do this for a while....and it wasn't meant to be this long....but hell, it's a long story, plus I had to throw in a couple attempts at humour here and there(I'll leave it up to you to figure out what parts aren't actually in the game, but if anyone's not sure, just ask)....and I figured some pics might break it up a bit, but I don't blame anyone for not reading it due to it's length, but for those that are up for a challenge.....

(oh yeah, just to clear the air since I've been reading about some shills lately, I wrote this out earlier in Word, so that's why it's only a couple minutes between this and my last post, plus, if I was a shill, I'd want everyone to read this.....and I would've made it a hell of alot shorter)  icon_lol


It’s been 39 years since I usurped the position of Supreme Commander of German and Italian forces, most of the officers who supported me in my coup have long since passed on, but finally, in 1979 the war has come to a successful conclusion…including subduing all the neutral countries for some reason. To say I’ve lead our nation to become a world power is a gross understatement. All that remains not in our clutches is 3 territories owned by Japan, who (luckily for them) are allied with us. Here’s my auto-biography of my wartime experience….

1940, our armies were at the height of our power at the time, but myself and many senior officers were pessimistic about the final outcome of the war, future plans revealed to us showed that our enemies would not only grow in number exponentially, but also in strength, and how could a country such as Russia ever be subdued in a few short years? After months of going over agonizing details, we came to the conclusion that the current war strategy by the current commander was to doom us all, there was only one way out. In a top-secret plot we eliminated him and in the ensuing chaos I somehow became the new commander in chief.



This however, was only the start of my problems. Intelligence showed Russia building up strength at her borders for a possible attack. The French and British seemed to be doing the same (they had already declared war on us afterall). Returning Poland and the rest of the captured countries wouldn’t go over well with the people, or the staff, especially since some had sons that died to gain that territory….nor would it necessarily appease the Allies. The decision was made for the war to continue…but on a somewhat different course. France was defeated by the end of the year, bombing Britain seemed like it would be a waste of resources, so off to Russia it was……but, a massive army will be built up first, after a couple years of preparations we dove in one giant spearhead towards the north, reached, conquered and fortified Leningrad. A couple more territories were gobbled up closer to Poland as well, but I was careful not to overextend myself as I had a feeling a counterattack would come…..and it did.

That winter, the Russians counterattacked with a ferocious tenacity we did not expect out of them. Our once massive army was now dwindling in size due to the sheer strength of their offensive. A couple territories were lost, but we still held onto Leningrad, denying the Russians a very strategic port. My foresight came in handy just as my generals were beginning to question my wisdom. We were now in a great position to retake our lost territories with not much resistance, and slowly begin towards the capital Moscow. It was around this time when British bombers began raining death upon my armies, and by doing so, threaten an invasion. Losses would become substantial over time, in an attempt to curtail this, I placed several anti-aircraft batteries over the main targets of the bombers….unfortunately, this had little effect and the bombings continued, but the Russian capital was in our sights! Perhaps they could be knocked out of the war by taking the capital and then I could deal with those pesky British bombers before an invasion could ever take place. We trudged forward and were now at the gates of Moscow, Victory was in sight, we were in high spirits….suddenly, seemingly from out of nowhere there was another damned Russian counteroffensive, this one was totally unexpected and sent my armies reeling back to a decades old front line, even the fortified Leningrad fell. I believe this was a result of a port in Arkangel being used as some sort of dastardly Allied lend-lease program….damn those British again!



With the front falling apart, the threat of a western invasion just as strong as ever, time for action was now. Even more anti-aircraft batteries were allotted to the affected regions (again to little affect…but seemed to actual shoot one down once in a while), and first and foremost destroy those convoys!  Our airforces sole goal was to eliminate aid to Russia. After a couple successful seasons, this was easily accomplished. During this time, even more ground had to be given to the Russians, things were looking desperate. I thought they would’ve ran out of steam by now…..how much resources did the allies give them?! Either way, the British bombers were still undeterred, but now my airforce was freed up from convoy smashing duties. I had previously balked at the idea of bombing British soil due to the fear of losing precious aircraft due to AA fire…..but if they’re able to bomb us and be successful, perhaps we can do the same to them, besides nothing else seemed to work, with more and more of our ever shrinking territory within the sights of Allied bombers, something had to be done.



Begrudgingly I gave the order to have them attack British airfields…several enemy planes were destroyed to none of my planes being damaged! Success! There was hope yet! This process was repeated when possible (although of course some losses on our side did occur), and the British raids became less powerful due to their falling numbers of aircraft. In the east, the Russians had finally run out of steam and overextended themselves. We only took territories after being damn sure we could hold them…or took them, and left them undefended to be re-claimed….just to damage their infrastructure.

For some reason Japan has attacked USA, and now I have to deal with those Joes in North Africa. To make matters worse, they’ve got a damn aircraft carrier parked right at the mouth near Gibraltor and their planes attack me if I go anywhere near it, successfully sealing off the area from the German/Italian navy. This war will be the death of me…

After a couple years, I finally got them off the continent and placed some Ack-Ack and artillery to create some op-fire to deter any more African excursions. It worked, but the aircraft carrier was still there, and they must’ve researched the hell out of it because my advisors keep telling me that even with the amount of planes I propose to attack it with, my chances of success are only around 10%.

After much research and committing more planes, the ship (now ships) was attacked and the survivors limped over towards England to dissuade an invasion of my own.

It was around this time when we ran into the first Russian supersoldiers. I was sure my advisors were off their rockers when they told me a couple tank divisions of mine and a squadron of tactical bombers only had a 0.02% chance of defeating a couple Russian army batallions….., I knew better than them! How could a couple soldiers take out several tanks and avoid being torn apart by my planes? In we went with little reservation about this poorly equipped army………and we paid for it. I’m not sure what those Russian soldiers were eating, but they were tough as nails, several panzers damaged, many more destroyed…..and not a single Russian battled injured. I never doubted my advisors again.



Russia was on her knees number-wise, but it would be a tough battle to wipe out her remaining soldiers. At the same time, Japan was in a similar position, America was beating the hell out of her. Daily bombings against her industry left her quiet barren. An invasion was imminent …and it wouldn’t take much either. The convoys were lining up across the pacific and my planes were ridiculously out of range, as it stood, Japan would fall before Russia would…..which meant the Americans would be able to aid Russia…I don’t have to tell you what that would spell.

3 submarines. That’s all I had. 3 brave crews accepted the mission to slip into the heavily fortified Pacific and attack the convoys. This was accepted as a necessary suicide mission, but it might slow down the invasion a season or two if all was successful, which would buy us precious time to hopefully get some aircraft within striking range. The brave sub crews headed off for their last voyage and quickly found their targets. 3, 6, then 8 convoys were sunk! This was beyond our wildest hopes, the invasion was surely delayed for at least while now! For some reason the subs weren’t attacked very aggressively, and when one did get sunk, I already had another heading out to take it’s place. This gamble proved to be the turning point of the war. America still continued to bomb Japan rendering her otherwise useless, but without convoys, Japan cannot be taken out of the game.

In the meantime the United States had built up an absolutely behemoth of force around the land of the rising sun. Something like 20 aircraft carriers and an absurd amount of aircraft on deck to go with it.

Everyone needs time away from war (or so my boss from work told me rather rudely), but that didn’t mean I couldn’t think about the war while I was at work. For the first time in my military (or entire video game “career”), I used my war diary (.i.e., the section at the back of instruction books that are blank aside from the word ‘Notes’ at the top of the page). I studied the small map near the back of the book and I could see in my mind roughly where the troops were (probably from the screen burning holes in my retinas for playing it for so long) and made a series of  recommendations/goals/ideas.

During this time we were fighting our way through SouthEast Asia and actually linked up with Japan. This did wonders for her morale (well, I assume it did anyway). Japan had only a couple territories and was virtually impotent militarily. The Chinese were harassing them daily, but now they had us to deal with.

There seemed to be a lack of intelligence gathering on my part in two areas. 1) We’ve successfully linked up with Japan, yet can’t resource share. 2) Amphibious (and sometimes even airborne) landings don’t work. Most of Africa was still waiting to be plundered (by me)to thus deny the resource points to the Allies which they were gaining from it at every turn. It was now the 1960’s, one of my new aides suggested I try gaining assistance from a new device called a computer. Skeptical, I entered a room with a massive machine that flickered and hummed something fierce, typed in some questions and it spat out the answers. Impressive, too bad there will never be a market for it though.

Apparently two convoys are needed to carry one assault force of soldiers. Anyway, with this knowledge, I soon struck a much preferred balance of power.



The Chinese don’t get enough credit, I assumed they’d be a walk in the park with my great army, but they put up one hell of a fight again and again. It was during this time I began to question why the Americans wouldn’t break apart their armada and bomb us to aid they’re allies since we were in range of their attacks. Maybe it had something to do with us making a deal with the Hippies. You see, it was in the 1960’s, and we struck a deal with the hippies that if they held anti-war demonstrations to lower the will of the American people to fight, we give them a “Wood Stock”. Little did they know that this would be the Wood(en) Stock of a german  rifle upsides their heads upon our arrival!

In anycase, Russia and China finally fell shortly after. The amount of militiamen needed to quell the partisans was incredible. But, still there was work to do. The UK had long since been stripped of her airpower, and was not gaining any resource points, but had a massive army sitting on England. To make matters worse, their soldiers were now equal to the Russian supermen we had a hell of a time fighting not too long ago.

A titanic battle ensued, we actually lost more troops and equipment than they did…but thankfully we had a larger army and won the day.

It was around this time enough of my tactical bombers were formed up in China…….and struck a mighty blow into a wandering American aircraft carrier armada (which had at this point split into two since the glut of it in one probably wouldn’t fit on the screen if you selected it). In any case, the myth of American naval superiority in the Pacific was dealt a heavy blow. After researching the range of my bombers, we soon were able to hit the other armada equally as hard and Japan finally had some breathing space.



After all this, I think Japan still bore some kind of grudge against us for not resource-sharing. Not a single attack was made by her the rest of the game. It was up to us to finish off the rest of the world. Although, I’d be happy with it ending if I took the U.S. capitol, but I suppose I might’ve made some weird declaration back at Geneva (i.e. the game options) disallowing such a thing.

My attack first struck in central America (to block off the Panama canal), and then we drove through Mexico and hit the eastern United States. The sheer numbers that soon ended up on Western United states to protect the capital was staggering. It was such a draining fight, never in my military career had I faced so many well trained troops, the battle raged on for longer than I care to remember. Bruised, battered…but not broken, my army came out on top……and later made good on our hippie bashing claim! Heheh



I spent the next couple years just basically taking over the small parts of the world that have not been seized yet in order to get a ‘game over’ screen or something. I had come this far, I refused to stop until I saw it! Much to the chagrin of the neutrals countries, I followed through and got my ‘Total Victory’ screen.

Next up, spreading communism abroad with the Russian Campaign!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 04:01:04 AM by Wolves » Logged

Lockdown
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2007, 01:55:40 AM »

Nice write up. 

Very nice, actually.

I give you.... 4 1/2 stars!  (I would have given you 4 stars even, but I really like the term "ferocious tenacity" ... so that bumped you up a half star)

 icon_biggrin

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Wolves
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 04:06:11 AM »

Quote from: Lockdown on February 20, 2007, 01:55:40 AM

Nice write up. 

Very nice, actually.

I give you.... 4 1/2 stars!  (I would have given you 4 stars even, but I really like the term "ferocious tenacity" ... so that bumped you up a half star)

 icon_biggrin



Hahah, thanks man. A review of my review/testamonial!
If I ever feel this compelled to write about a game again, I'll be sure to attack it with the same 'ferocious tenacity' as I did this one.  icon_twisted


Wait...is that 4 1/2 out of 10? heheh!  icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol
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Brendan
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2007, 04:07:06 AM »

How many hours does an average game take you?  (I'll need to modify your answer for a below average strategy gamer, sadly).
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Wolves
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 05:23:05 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 20, 2007, 04:07:06 AM

How many hours does an average game take you?  (I'll need to modify your answer for a below average strategy gamer, sadly).

For this game? Well, my first foray lasted about anywhere from 2-4 hours (sorry, I don't really remember too well), but then again, I was soundly trounced and the war ended in 1944!  icon_redface And that was on easy!

The current game I just finished about a week ago (the one on which my above ramblings are based...and is still on easy), took an insane amount of time. As per actual hours.....I'd guess 50-60. Keep in mind, I was/am still learning some things in the game, if I knew more (or was just a better player), I surely could've shaved that down a good chunk. If I were to play the same scenario on the same setting now, I could probably halve it, or better if I ever figure out how to resource share.  icon_lol Naturally, there's a save anytime feature to help out.

I've read some people complaining that the A.I. is too easy even on the hard setting, I have yet to encounter such a problem.   Roll Eyes I'm guessing those people are floored at how long it took me to beat the game on the easy setting, but s'all good, I had fun regardless.

I'm not really sure how good or bad of a strategy player I am. There's not alot of strategy games that I play, I think I'd probably be an average player once I know all the ins and outs of the game (yeah, I prefer to dive right in and get playing and then figure things out as I go). Oddly enough though, I'm quite a careful planner. I check the whole map over a couple times before ending my turn and normally don't attack until I know I'll win....which results in huge masses of armies....which take a while to build up, plus I put alot of thought into what types of troops are needed to 'be made' for the next turn, what to research and of course where to fortify and what troops to move. So being methodical (or at least trying to be, heh) I'm sure adds alot more time to the game if that's the type of player you are.
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 06:37:36 AM »

Quote from: Wolves on February 20, 2007, 05:23:05 AM

For this game? Well, my first foray lasted about anywhere from 2-4 hours (sorry, I don't really remember too well), but then again, I was soundly trounced and the war ended in 1944!  icon_redface And that was on easy!

The current game I just finished about a week ago (the one on which my above ramblings are based...and is still on easy), took an insane amount of time. As per actual hours.....I'd guess 50-60. Keep in mind, I was/am still learning some things in the game, if I knew more (or was just a better player), I surely could've shaved that down a good chunk. If I were to play the same scenario on the same setting now, I could probably halve it, or better if I ever figure out how to resource share.  icon_lol Naturally, there's a save anytime feature to help out.

!!

Wow - I'm impressed.  The only time suck I've ever succumbed to in that kind of volume is Football Manager!  icon_biggrin

My impression is that there're now two versions of the game:  the second one appears to have the subtitle 'A World Divided'.  Is that the one you're playing?

One thing that really appeals to me is my impression that there's less micromanagement than in other games of the genre.  I loved the first EU games thematically, but didn't have the extreme patience necessary to track all of the variables.  Clearly this has some of that (it's a Grigsby game, after all), but it still seems like it's lifted up a level from his previous stuff.

And, finally, PBEM actually holds some appeal.  The last game of that nature I played was a marathon 18 month session of VGA planets in the early 90s (well, and a bunch of actual PBM Diplomacy games).  I'd love to drop the pace of my normal frenzied game playing and think about a single turn each day.
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 12:53:52 PM »

I bought GG WaW a long time ago, played it for a bit and then put it down and never came back.  I love war/strategy games but this one just wasn't my style I guess.  I don't mind plunking down the dollars though.  The industry seems to be doing fairly well right now but it's hardly "thriving."  I consider it an investment to make sure I get more great wargames.
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2007, 09:50:32 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 20, 2007, 06:37:36 AM

Quote from: Wolves on February 20, 2007, 05:23:05 AM

For this game? Well, my first foray lasted about anywhere from 2-4 hours (sorry, I don't really remember too well), but then again, I was soundly trounced and the war ended in 1944!  icon_redface And that was on easy!

The current game I just finished about a week ago (the one on which my above ramblings are based...and is still on easy), took an insane amount of time. As per actual hours.....I'd guess 50-60. Keep in mind, I was/am still learning some things in the game, if I knew more (or was just a better player), I surely could've shaved that down a good chunk. If I were to play the same scenario on the same setting now, I could probably halve it, or better if I ever figure out how to resource share.  icon_lol Naturally, there's a save anytime feature to help out.

!!

Wow - I'm impressed.  The only time suck I've ever succumbed to in that kind of volume is Football Manager!  icon_biggrin

My impression is that there're now two versions of the game:  the second one appears to have the subtitle 'A World Divided'.  Is that the one you're playing?

You're correct that they're are two versions...but I'm playing the first one and don't have the second one yet.

Quote from: Brendan on February 20, 2007, 06:37:36 AM

One thing that really appeals to me is my impression that there's less micromanagement than in other games of the genre.  I loved the first EU games thematically, but didn't have the extreme patience necessary to track all of the variables.  Clearly this has some of that (it's a Grigsby game, after all), but it still seems like it's lifted up a level from his previous stuff.
I don't have anything else by Grigsby, so I can't compare it. But I suspect this doesn't have all the micromanaging that some of his other games have.....it's definitely more involving than Axis and Allies...but it feels just like another logical step in extra things to consider instead of being totally overwhelming. I was a total sucker for A&A, so if you're a fan of that, you might like this as much as I do. I get the impression that the expansion gives you more things to consider, well ok, I do remember reading about spies and such.  Oh yeah, one thing to note, I played this with 'supplies off', which of course would add another level of managing as you'd need to form supply lines and such if you turn it on. Another thing to point out,  I won the war in 1979, I'm pretty sure good players who know what they're doing can achieve victory by 1944. So, I expect all of my future wars will be over much quicker.

Also, all the pics I used aren't from the game but from google searches. The graphics themselves aren't much to look at, but then again, most turn based strategy games aren't. heh
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2007, 09:57:54 PM »

That sounds about perfect - I can handle A&A mentally...

Grigsby is a long long time strategy guru.  I think the Steel Panthers series was his best-selling run.

Grigsby's ouevre:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Grigsby
Steel Panthers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Panthers
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