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Author Topic: Crysis and UT3 (PC version) bombing?  (Read 2657 times)
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« on: December 15, 2007, 02:41:02 AM »

Could this mean a Crysis for future sequels to either games?  Unreal.......
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2007, 04:12:59 AM »

I read that this afternoon - I wonder if this'll teach companies not to release in the wake of such AAA titles as COD4 and in the midst of 10,000 other titles to be reviewed?
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 04:15:42 AM »

I played Ut2k4 to death.  But I'm just really tired of that format now.  I like me a good deathmatch, but the fast pace just drives me nuts. OMG ROKKIT LAUNCHER BUNNY HOP DASH DASH DASH.

Not even an awesome vehicle based mode can fix it.
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2007, 04:22:39 AM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 15, 2007, 04:12:59 AM

I read that this afternoon - I wonder if this'll teach companies not to release in the wake of such AAA titles as COD4 and in the midst of 10,000 other titles to be reviewed?

For lower range games I'd agree, but Crysis and UT3 should be so big that other companies are avoiding them, not the other way around.

In the case of UT3 I think Epic screwed themselves with a poorly received demo plus it seems that the multiplayer community has moved on the past few years and Epic didn't follow. 

Still, it's not a good sign of the health of PC games.  At least in the US- I think Europe has a stronger PC market and maybe they can make up for it over there. 
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2007, 10:10:48 PM »

Crysis has just stupid system requirements. They should have expected low sales.

UT3? They've hardly done any marketing for it, in my opinion. I was surprised it was coming out when it did, as I hadn't heard it was ready to ship. I'm still willing to buy it, though.
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2007, 10:45:13 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on December 15, 2007, 10:10:48 PM

Crysis has just stupid system requirements. They should have expected low sales.

UT3? They've hardly done any marketing for it, in my opinion. I was surprised it was coming out when it did, as I hadn't heard it was ready to ship. I'm still willing to buy it, though.

UT3 has been marketed shamefully bad, and I am including the internet and coverage of it.
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2007, 11:48:10 PM »

i was totally looking forward to both games... but the UT3 demo looks not very good on my computer (and it won't apply the graphical settings properly), while the Crysis demo refuses to run at all.
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2007, 11:52:52 PM »

Yeah, it was almost as if they didn't want to commit to full marketing on UT3 because they still weren't sure if it was going to ship this year.  Hopefully it will see some decent mods developed on it which will give it a longer lifespan.

I also agree that Crysis is so high-end that they can't really expect to have a huge market.
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2007, 11:55:43 PM »

I just think Crysis is about a year or so ahead of it's time.  By then maybe a much larger majority will have pc's capable.  Now, only a few do.  I certainly won't for at least a year or more.
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2007, 12:56:44 AM »

Seems the online UT community is just sticking with UT 2004.
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2007, 12:58:39 AM »

Quote from: mikeg on December 15, 2007, 11:55:43 PM

I just think Crysis is about a year or so ahead of it's time.  By then maybe a much larger majority will have pc's capable.  Now, only a few do.  I certainly won't for at least a year or more.

+1.  For the first level I was able to play with very high settings, and then for some reason after I got past the demo portion my performance died.  The high req's are probably scaring alot of people away.
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2007, 01:10:35 AM »

Quote from: Jumangi on December 16, 2007, 12:56:44 AM

Seems the online UT community is just sticking with UT 2004.

I still think UT 2004 looks completely fantastic.
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2007, 02:11:49 AM »

I'm in agreement with many of you.  Unreal Tournament used to be *THE* game for multiplayer, but there are so many options now.  With TF2 and CoD4, I've got lots of MP goodness and don't really need something new.  Crysis has been a blast so far, but I really do have a top of the line rig, and it's a slideshow sometimes.  Its also got some gamestopper bugs that need a patch.  I'm sure I'll come back to it whenever I get a new system, but for now its on the backburner.  Both games suffer from bad timing...UT is a bit too late and Crysis about a year too early.
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2007, 05:28:21 AM »

It could be that once everyone has played 1,093 FPSs, that maybe it's time for the market to do something fresh.

It could be that making games that seem to require $600 videocards or $800 SLI-dual-card-setups to get a decent frame rate is folly in an increasingly console-soaked market (it made sense maybe in the PS2/XBox era as a way to drive people into upgrading their PCs, but all it probably does now is drive more people away from PC gaming altogether). I mean, I admire Crytek having the guts to release a sky high system requirements PC-only title, but it seems like marketing folly if not marketing suicide.

Honestly, I'm convinced I'm the last PC gamer in Virginia. I never, ever see anyone in the PC games sections of any of the stores I frequent (Best buy, Gamestop, Circuit City, increasingly Target cause it has a nice and surprisingly well stocked PC games section now). If you remove WoW and its expansion from the equation, and 27 Sims expansions, I'm not sure what PC games are really selling in numbers that would impress anybody.

I don't have any next-gen consoles, so don't take this as someone throwing stones at the PC games market because he loves consoles (I don't). I just feel increasingly like a dinosaur. That may explain why I'm having a "gaming depression" right now and am not playing anything at all. Maybe that and most of the pals I used to play PC games online with have given up on the platform (either moving to XBox360 or out of gaming altogether).
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2007, 06:07:27 AM »

I agree that people were scared off by Crysis seemingly needing a top-end machine to run.  It's actually playable if you are willing to give up the bells and whistles on a minimum requirements machine (and the minimum requirements are not unrealistic at this point).  However, I'm not sure how many people are willing to play FPS' when the graphics are turned down.

Part of the problem also is that Crysis is too far ahead of the curve.  It's hard for people to justify system upgrades for one game unless it's part of a series they know they love (i.e. lot's of people upgraded for Doom 3 and Half-Life 2).  Crytek just doesn't have that level of credibility with gamers to drag thousands of them along.

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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2007, 06:24:03 AM »

Crysis is in a bit of a bind- the big selling point that people still use for the PC is the hardware and how much better games can look than the consoles.  But when you do that you cut out a huge chunk of the PC market.  But if you scale it back then it's a case of "might as well put it on consoles!"
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2007, 03:09:27 PM »

I was never that impressed by the gameplay in Far Cry so Crysis would be a pass for me even if I could run it nicely.

If it does continue to sell poorly I'm betting we'll hear news of a 360 and/or PS3 port pretty soon.
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2007, 05:41:05 PM »

Quote from: Sarkus on December 16, 2007, 06:07:27 AM

I agree that people were scared off by Crysis seemingly needing a top-end machine to run.  It's actually playable if you are willing to give up the bells and whistles on a minimum requirements machine (and the minimum requirements are not unrealistic at this point).  However, I'm not sure how many people are willing to play FPS' when the graphics are turned down.

plus the whole selling point seems to be the OMG graphics.
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2007, 08:16:11 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 16, 2007, 05:41:05 PM

Quote from: Sarkus on December 16, 2007, 06:07:27 AM

I agree that people were scared off by Crysis seemingly needing a top-end machine to run.  It's actually playable if you are willing to give up the bells and whistles on a minimum requirements machine (and the minimum requirements are not unrealistic at this point).  However, I'm not sure how many people are willing to play FPS' when the graphics are turned down.

plus the whole selling point seems to be the OMG graphics.

When a press release or presentation (when I used to go to E3) spends half the alloted space/time talking about the graphics techncology and how good it will look, I lose interest so fast. A game that is deep, that looks good is one thing, but if your major selling point is your technology and graphic specs, then I'm looking for the latest B title, that at least has to try to make a good game!
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2007, 12:16:24 AM »

Quote
It could be that making games that seem to require $600 videocards or $800 SLI-dual-card-setups to get a decent frame rate is folly in an increasingly console-soaked market (it made sense maybe in the PS2/XBox era as a way to drive people into upgrading their PCs, but all it probably does now is drive more people away from PC gaming altogether).

yup.  fps games on pcs are dead.  people finally are used to controllers and the ridiculous requirements are too much.  i remember feeling like such a scumbag when i would buy a new video card EVERY FREAKING YEAR.  and a computer every two.  the amount of waste i was producing was ridiculous, just to be able to play the top of the line stuff.  now i buy a console and im all set for 4 or 5 years

seriously for years people were predicting the death of pc gaming and its probably time to admit that it happened, and it happened a few years ago - with a whimper, not a bang.  dont get me wrong the pc still reigns with those beautiful, upper class rts games, the mmo and the isometric rpg but other than that its over.  just remember how big the pc games section was about seven to ten years ago.  and think of it now.  ut3 and crysis are just the sign of one more genre down and over to the console
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2007, 02:18:47 AM »

Quote from: Doopri on December 17, 2007, 12:16:24 AM

seriously for years people were predicting the death of pc gaming and its probably time to admit that it happened, and it happened a few years ago - with a whimper, not a bang.  dont get me wrong the pc still reigns with those beautiful, upper class rts games, the mmo and the isometric rpg but other than that its over.  just remember how big the pc games section was about seven to ten years ago.  and think of it now.  ut3 and crysis are just the sign of one more genre down and over to the console

I don't think that qualifies as dead.  hell, WoW has what, 8 million subscribers at 15 bucks a month?  so essentially they have 8 million people buying 3 60 buck games a year?  Plus don't forget the Deer Hunter games  icon_wink
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« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2007, 02:32:29 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 17, 2007, 02:18:47 AM

I don't think that qualifies as dead.  hell, WoW has what, 8 million subscribers at 15 bucks a month?  so essentially they have 8 million people buying 3 60 buck games a year?  Plus don't forget the Deer Hunter games  icon_wink

I don't think the PC is dead, but I won't be surprised to see MMO's start shifting to consoles in the next few years.  The $15/month gold mine is not in any way PC only territory from a technical point of view.

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« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2007, 05:24:15 AM »

Well, let's look at the releases.  There was a huge dry spot of first person shooter releases on the PC... and now there are far too many.

Maybe this will finally convince studios to stagger their releases.  Hollywood delays the release of movies all the time.  So just delay the release of the game until it's not competing with 1000 other games of the same genre.
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2007, 06:07:35 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on December 17, 2007, 05:24:15 AM

Maybe this will finally convince studios to stagger their releases.  Hollywood delays the release of movies all the time.  So just delay the release of the game until it's not competing with 1000 other games of the same genre.

you'll have to convince EA that.  Good luck!  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2007, 01:32:07 PM »

Crysis needed to not completely bork the second half of the game, I mean at least Far Cry, even with it's annoying mutants at least kept some open ended gameplay.  Crysis takes you from wide ranging freedom, then suddenly chains you to the back of a truck and sticks a weapon of their choosing in your hand.

(oh and the crazy system requirements didn't help  - but again that's like Far Cry, I think that is a surmountable problem, bad gameplay is not)
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« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2007, 04:03:31 PM »

You know, I am not really sure what to think of this. I think the UT3 thing has to do with the constantly shifting release date, insufficient online media coverage, and simply awful marketing of the game. Shameful marketing for a series as awesome as UT. Even though I am not sure I love what they did with it, I hope its a huge success on 360 so the series doesn't die. Its been one of the best MP series of all time.

Crysis is more complicated. The absurd system specs certainly didn't help, and while the game actually scales very well to older hardware and is completely playable, most people want it to look like the screenshots, and only a tiny fraction of users have computers capable of that. The other issue as most have you have pointed out is that the market for all games, especially shooters, was absolutely flooded in late November. Add to that the relative difficulty in getting big pc sales these days, woefully insufficient marketing...and there you go-disappointment. I hope this is not a trend.
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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2007, 06:09:56 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on December 17, 2007, 04:03:31 PM

Even though I am not sure I love what they did with it, I hope its a huge success on 360 so the series doesn't die.

well the delay for the 360 may help burn out people on all the other MP games out there like CoD4, TF2 and Halo 3, but I'm doubting it.
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« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2008, 06:02:13 PM »

Blue's pointed out an interview with Crytek's prez that touches on piracy, and the "is it moving to consoles?" question (his opinion is they can't do Crysis on any current console but they don't plan to do any more PC-exclusive titles):

http://www.pcplay.hr/modules.php?r=23
Quote from: Crytek's Cevat Yerli
We are suffering currently from the huge piracy that is encompassing Crysis. We seem to lead the charts in piracy by a large margin, a chart leading that is not desirable. I believe thatís the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy.  To the degree PC Gamers that pirate games inherently destroy the platform.

Similar games on consoles sell factors of 4-5 more. It was a big lesson for us and I believe we wont have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future. We are going to support PC, but not exclusive anymore.
It's interesting to juxtapose this sort of knee-jerk, "hair on fire"  reaction [piracy was a problem 15 years ago, and Crytek just realized it now?  icon_confused] to Ironclad Games, whose copy protection-less Sins of a Solar Empire is selling briskly, and their publisher Stardock who plans to release Gas Powered Games' Demigod with no copy protection either (in both cases with the idea that even if you are a scalawag initially, you'll still buy to get updates and enhancements to the original game and perhaps just to support the idea of non-copy-protected games).

I don't know that that publishing model could've worked for Crysis, unless they found some way to make pirated versions unplayable online or perhaps incapable of playing mods or something.

Supposedly Crysis has sold a million copies, but that's presumably "worldwide." If he asked me, I'd tell him not to do any more shooters that the vast majority of the PC gaming populace can't get a decent frame rate on. Video card companies may love the idea of a system-crushing game, but gamers aren't going to wet their pants and buy a new system to play one game, when the world's economy is in the doldrums and gas prices are insane.

Sorry -- it's me being creepy and digging up musty old threads again.  icon_razz
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« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2008, 06:09:27 PM »

Eh, Sins' success is all relative to genre and expectations.  A similarly AAA game as Crysis in that genre on consoles would be expected to be a multi-million seller so the "one million sold worldwide" number that's been bandied about is probably a disappointment for both EA and Crytek.  But if Sins were to sell a million I imagine it's developers would be doing backflips. 
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« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2008, 07:06:38 PM »

As stated already - the game sold a million copies, and they're complaining? Most PC games only get half that if they're lucky.

And yes, the other complaint (as also stated) is to not make games that require uber PCs to make the game look like those in the previews. The game might've sold a bit better had they shown the masses just how good it still looks under DX9/XP (especially with the hacks that turn it into 95% of the DX10 version).
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« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2008, 07:20:04 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on April 30, 2008, 07:06:38 PM

As stated already - the game sold a million copies, and they're complaining? Most PC games only get half that if they're lucky.

And yes, the other complaint (as also stated) is to not make games that require uber PCs to make the game look like those in the previews. The game might've sold a bit better had they shown the masses just how good it still looks under DX9/XP (especially with the hacks that turn it into 95% of the DX10 version).

Anyone who seriously believes there are a million legal copies of Crysis installed on PCs out there is a lunatic as far as I'm concerned.  Most ridiculous claim I've heard all year.  I will give you that there may be a million boxes of Crysis sitting on store shelves and in warehouses across the world.  But harp all you want about how inaccurate NPD data is.  It ain't THAT inaccurate.
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2008, 09:35:16 PM »

People do play PC games in places besides the US. Allot of PC games are sold in Europe. Games like the Gothic series have always sold well there even if not here.

That being said I don't know why Crytek didn't go with console version to begin with since FPS shooters are so popular now. They have even mentioned the game running on the PS3 and 360 so don't know why they do that.
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« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2008, 09:37:22 PM »

Trust me, I know exactly how well games do in Europe, and everywhere else smile  They don't eclipse the US by over 4x, which is roughly what it would take to hit 1 million.
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« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2008, 10:10:25 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on April 30, 2008, 09:35:16 PM



That being said I don't know why Crytek didn't go with console version to begin with since FPS shooters are so popular now. They have even mentioned the game running on the PS3 and 360 so don't know why they do that.

Possibly because the consoles may not have been able to handle the hardware requirements?
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« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2008, 02:48:15 AM »

Quote from: kathode on April 30, 2008, 07:20:04 PM

Quote from: Destructor on April 30, 2008, 07:06:38 PM

As stated already - the game sold a million copies, and they're complaining? Most PC games only get half that if they're lucky.

And yes, the other complaint (as also stated) is to not make games that require uber PCs to make the game look like those in the previews. The game might've sold a bit better had they shown the masses just how good it still looks under DX9/XP (especially with the hacks that turn it into 95% of the DX10 version).

Anyone who seriously believes there are a million legal copies of Crysis installed on PCs out there is a lunatic as far as I'm concerned.  Most ridiculous claim I've heard all year.  I will give you that there may be a million boxes of Crysis sitting on store shelves and in warehouses across the world.  But harp all you want about how inaccurate NPD data is.  It ain't THAT inaccurate.

I'd add that the Next-Gen article a few weeks back that listed the top 100 selling games of the last 12 months didn't have Crysis on it's list, which started at 470,000.   Those numbers were supposed to represent NA + EU sales figures.

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« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2008, 04:32:57 AM »

Yep, there are other countries besides those covered by NPD numbers.  I recall NPDs mainly covers the US.  Anyone know for sure if it includes the EU?

I think the main thing is that the game didn't meet their high sales expectations, but it did really well for any game.  Selling 1 million in anything is no small feat.  The problem is they were pushing Crysis to be the next Quake 1/2 in terms of jumps in tech and hype.
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« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2008, 06:09:27 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on May 01, 2008, 04:32:57 AM

Yep, there are other countries besides those covered by NPD numbers.  I recall NPDs mainly covers the US.  Anyone know for sure if it includes the EU?

I think the main thing is that the game didn't meet their high sales expectations, but it did really well for any game.  Selling 1 million in anything is no small feat.  The problem is they were pushing Crysis to be the next Quake 1/2 in terms of jumps in tech and hype.

I don't think NPD covers the EU, but I'm not sure what you're getting at by asking.  As I recall the idea that Crysis sold 1 million units came from EA/Crytek, not NPD.  Early NPD numbers indicated Crysis was doing very poorly in the US. The Next Gen report I mentioned doesn't cite its sources, but specifically claims the numbers represent NA and EU.
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« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2008, 12:58:58 PM »

NPD is strictly US (there is also NPD for Canada as well that's released separately).  EU numbers are notoriously hard to get because there isn't a single monolithic entity tracking sales for the entire region.  Next-Gen's piece was well researched but even then they admit that some of it was basically educated guesswork:


Quote from: from how Next-Gen gathered their data:
Numbers are based on official records from NPD and information provided to Next-Gen by publishers. Publicly available data and analysis was also taken into account, as well as dead reckoning and sanity checking from the Next-Gen staff when exact counts (such as unified sales data for Europe) were difficult to corroborate, conflicting, or unavailable.
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morlac
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« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2008, 04:46:05 PM »

IIRc the NPD does not include online DD sales.  I don't think they count Walmart either as they refuse to divulge sales records(they might estimate them but im not sure).
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« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2008, 06:11:36 PM »

Quote from: morlac on May 01, 2008, 04:46:05 PM

IIRc the NPD does not include online DD sales.  I don't think they count Walmart either as they refuse to divulge sales records(they might estimate them but im not sure).

NPD estimates Walmart.  In fact, they estimate to 100% of brick and mortar market.   
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