Company of Heroes - Tales of Valor

[Jeff]

It's out!

Picked up mine at Gamestop today on my lunch break. The game updates to 2.501 right after you install, and you're good to go.

The A.I. is now dramatically improved. Seriously. Even a guy who designed the most well-known A.I. mod is saying he's impressed with the new A.I.

There are something like 22 new skirmish maps.

New units, new sound effects, and some kickass new co-op multiplayer modes.

I'm in CoH heaven again

If anyone has any questions, let me know and I'll try to answer them.

[Turtle]

From the prior patch notes, it looks like they're rolling the AI improvements back into vanilla CoH.

This also bodes well for DoW2 since they mentioned very specifically that they want to improve the AI more since so many people play co-op against the computer.

How are the online co-op modes?

I'll be picking this one up ASAP, and we really need to get a game in.

[Jeff]

How are the online co-op modes?

I'll be picking this one up ASAP, and we really need to get a game in.

I'm off all day, and intend to play the hell out of this. We should have no problem getting a good sized mob to play today & tonight. Grab it from Impulse and hop in!

Great price from Impulse btw, they seem to be matching Amazon's $27.99 discount price.

[Autistic Angel]

I picked my copy up too.  I like the sound of "Operation: Stonewall," a co-op defense mission where players see how long they can stave off larger and larger waves of enemies.  The original campaign had a similar mission (The Defense of St. Lo's?) that I absolutely loved, so taking that idea into the co-op arena sounds like it would be a lot of fun.

-Autistic Angel

[Island Dog]

I grabbed it off Impulse ($2 cheaper), looks like a great game. 

[naednek]

Is it on Steam?  Can you play online with people who bought it on impusle?  Makes no sense by going to a different distribution store when your other two games are on it...

[Jeff]

Is it on Steam?  Can you play online with people who bought it on impusle?  Makes no sense by going to a different distribution store when your other two games are on it...

It's on Steam. And yes you play via RelicOnline, so you can play with Steam folks, Impulse players and regular retail players.

Here's the deal: Tales of Valor includes everything CoH. You will already have your previous stuff unlocked, or you'll need to update ToV with your old vanilla CoH key and/or Opposing Forces key.

I picked my copy up too.  I like the sound of "Operation: Stonewall," a co-op defense mission where players see how long they can stave off larger and larger waves of enemies.  The original campaign had a similar mission (The Defense of St. Lo's?) that I absolutely loved, so taking that idea into the co-op arena sounds like it would be a lot of fun.

It is!! Crux & I just played it and was ridiculously fun. Takes a bit to get the hang of how it works, but once you do, man, what a blast. I can't wait to play again.

The new A.I. is way, waaay better. Crux & I normally completely crush the hard A.I. just lost to a normal/hard combo in 2v2. It uses mixed forces a TON better now. I'm actually impressed.

[raydude]

Someone please tell us how the new "Assault" MP mode works. Apparently there's some kind of blackout on that mode imposed on all the review sites.

[Blackjack]

This Eurogamer review touches on it, fwiw:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/company-of-heroes-tales-of-valor-review?page=2

Finally there's Assault, a self-explanatory clash between two deeply entrenched forces. It's basically turtling, with all the stockpiling and defence-building already done for you. It's up to you to turn your position of relative dug-in safety into a successful push through the enemy frontline.

[Tokek]

I may pick up the whole package on Steam, it's $40.  While I have the disc version of the original CoH and Opposing Fronts, I don't remember where my original CoH discs are (it's in storage somewhere).

[DOSHIGH]

I may pick up the whole package on Steam, it's $40.  While I have the disc version of the original CoH and Opposing Fronts, I don't remember where my original CoH discs are (it's in storage somewhere).

Same deal for me. I don't buy enough games anymore to care about trade-in value so from  last year onwards its been Steam, Impulse, etc.

[madpeon]

This Eurogamer review touches on it, fwiw:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/company-of-heroes-tales-of-valor-review?page=2

Finally there's Assault, a self-explanatory clash between two deeply entrenched forces. It's basically turtling, with all the stockpiling and defence-building already done for you. It's up to you to turn your position of relative dug-in safety into a successful push through the enemy frontline.

It is supposedly more akin to DoTA than anything else. Haven't heard any impressions of it yet though.

That Eurogamer was awful, they barely glance over the new multiplayer modes (one of the biggest additions in ToV, IMHO).

[Blackjack]

Eurogamer is notorious (imho) for reviewing betas and non-final versions of games so that they can "go to press" early (I've seen them review games weeks before their release). So chances are they reviewed an early version and had no way to test it online per se because, well, there was nobody to play it with yet. I just picked it out cause I was trying to find any sort of description of Assault mode.

As someone overly intimidated by the length of the original and Opposing Fronts campaigns, I welcome the idea of shorter "mini campaigns" even if it stuck in Eurogamer's craw.

[Blackjack]

I forgot to check the RelicNews fan site/forums for info. They have a fan-created Guide to Tales of Valor.

Company of Heroes Tales of Valor Information Guide (Last Updated Apr 10 09)
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=219740
The guide though seems based more on someone leafing through previews and interviews about ToV rather than actually playing it.

[baelthazar]

If Demigod wasn't coming next week (like 4 days) I would jump on this, but only have 9 missions is a bit small. Assault mode (which seems to be misunderstood greatly) seems to be a Demigod/DotA mode for CoH. Gamespot.com had a decent hands-on of the multiplayer modes. I'm intrigued but not convinced. Anyway, there is a lot coming out in the next 4 months, so I don't need another WWII RTS (I have Men of War to play as well).

Bael

[Tals]

Just purchased it - now all I need is buddies to play with 

[Vindel]

Just purchased it - now all I need is buddies to play with 

I'll be your buddy, but don't have the game yet.

[Blackjack]

What's our Steam COH group again? I couldn't find it with the Steam community search, probably I'm just searching for the wrong words. Only the general public GT Steam group and the Left 4 Dead group I set up a while back.

[Tals]

Just purchased it - now all I need is buddies to play with 

I'll be your buddy, but don't have the game yet.

Hi Vin you a Euro or a US?

[Vindel]

Just purchased it - now all I need is buddies to play with 

I'll be your buddy, but don't have the game yet.

Hi Vin you a Euro or a US?

I am US, PST and you?

[Jeff]

What's our Steam COH group again? I couldn't find it with the Steam community search, probably I'm just searching for the wrong words. Only the general public GT Steam group and the Left 4 Dead group I set up a while back.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/cbob

CoH Band of Brothers

It's public, so no invite needed. Just sign up at will.

[denoginizer]

I went to buy this at Gamestop on my lunch hour today and discovered that they no longer sell PC games.   

I guess I'll try Impluse later tonight.

[Tals]

Just purchased it - now all I need is buddies to play with 

I'll be your buddy, but don't have the game yet.

Hi Vin you a Euro or a US?

I am US, PST and you?

UK 

[Blackjack]

I went to buy this at Gamestop on my lunch hour today and discovered that they no longer sell PC games.   

I guess I'll try Impluse later tonight.

Ouch.  Is that "company wide" or "at the discretion of the manager." I haven't been to a Gamestop since last year, but I know the PC section had dwindled and dwindled over the years.

I know it's been answered here somewhere, but if I buy the Steam version of this, it should "interface" with my retail box versions (which are installed through a fairly recent Opposing Fronts update) OK, right? Though I'd be game to give Impulse a try.

[Blackjack]

Best Buy near my office has this in, so I might see if I can track it down. 

[Tals]

Is it on Steam?  Can you play online with people who bought it on impusle?  Makes no sense by going to a different distribution store when your other two games are on it...

You can play against people on Steam/Impulse/Boxed as that is handled by relic. The only disadvantage buying it on Impulse I can see is it doesn't appear to be able to be run from Steam as a non steam game

If I had known this I would probably have spent the extra £2 and bought it on steam - lesson learned I guess. Hopefully Island Dog can give me a solution in the Impulse thread.

** ok an addition to this you can get to Tales of Valor through Opposing forces (as I have that one on steam). You then see the full game as you would expect. Means it shows i'm playing Opposing forces rather than Tales of Valor but better than nothing. Better if I could show it was playing the right game

Tals

[Jeff]

If Demigod wasn't coming next week (like 4 days) I would jump on this, but only have 9 missions is a bit small.

The 3 campaigns are actually mini-campaigns, and they are indeed short. Surprisingly short. I just finished 'Causeway', and it took under 2 hours. Even as a CoH nut, I thought this campaign bordered on being lame - at least on Normal difficulty. You play hero squads, and they are virtually invulnerable, and in parts, the missions practically played themselves. They have an abilities tree for your squads which wasn't really necessary, the squads being overpowered as it is. The missions and campaign were over so quickly, it made me wonder why they included the abilities tree. Perhaps the experience changes on hard/expert mode.

[Blackjack]

Campaign length and dearth of new units are the main gripes I'm reading in all the reviews so far (regardless of the multiplayer modes). I think the original game's campaign was so epic (I never did finish it, or even come close) it kinda spoiled people. So some of the reviewers are seeing the teeny campaigns as stingy and something more appropriate to DLC or "micro transaction" price add-ons rather than a $30 expansion (stand alone though it might be).

I dunno, I assume the relatively disappointing sales for COH and Opposing Fronts left THQ/Relic looking at more cost effective means to add on to the game, or something.

I still plan to get it though. Best Buy didn't have (regardless of what their Web site said) so i'll probably break down and Steam it at some point.

[Crux]

Well, the new gameplay modes make up for any campaign shortness imo. Plus there is a pretty decent number of new units - a couple for each faction.

[Turtle]

I think they wanted to bring CoH to a more casual market, which a hero centric and co-op focused game could do.

[Redfive]

How does ToV run compared to vanilla CoH?  I don't suppose there were any engine changes or such?  I'm thinking of having my Dad pick this up with me but I'm not sure his rig would handle it were it any stouter than CoH.

[Turtle]

It shouldn't need any higher requirements.  They didn't up the map sizes or detail, the main thing that was added were new gameplay mechanics.

[Blackjack]

In spite of my better judgment (reviews are mostly ranging from disappointed to negative, and many long time fans at RelicNews forums seem disappointed - if not downright bitter about - with the pricing and content "volume"), I picked this up at BB at lunch today anyway. I never felt COH became the blockbuster it deserved to be, so I figure the least I can do is keep supporting it. 

And like I said, I found COH and OF's campaigns too long and grueling for my tastes - I couldn't bring myself close to finishing them. Maybe the whole mini-campaign concept was done just for me. 

In interviews, the Relic guys seem to be hedging their bets on whether they want to continue the WWII format, or try using the engine for different wars/conflicts.

[denoginizer]

I'll agree with those who are saying that $30 is too much for what you get with this expansion.  I wish I would have just stuck with the latest Op Fronts patch and it's AI upgrades.  The single player campaigns are really short and the new multiplayer modes seem like they will get old fast.  The few new units are not that much different from the units they replace.  All in all I am kind of regretting the purchase.

[Turtle]

Company of Heroes: Modern Combat. 

I'd actually like to see them do a near future, or future scifi combat but with a CoH style realistic slant.  Er, basically Endwar, but better.

[denoginizer]

Company of Heroes: Modern Combat. 

I'd actually like to see them do a near future, or future scifi combat but with a CoH style realistic slant.  Er, basically Endwar, but better.

I'd like to see this engine used in the Warhammer 40K Universe.


Oh wait..... 

[raydude]

Company of Heroes: Modern Combat. 

I'd actually like to see them do a near future, or future scifi combat but with a CoH style realistic slant.  Er, basically Endwar, but better.

Or like, Company of Heroes: Above and Beyond for the future setting.

[Blackjack]

I will install my copy and try to get up to speed tonight or tomorrow. How are people around here trying to gather up for games? Relic Online, or the Steam group, or some IM I'm not using? 

I think they could easily go modern combat and go COD4's route with some sort of alternate reality war scenario, where both sides have armor. No doubt the engine could do awesome stuff with M-1s, Strykers, Bradleys etc. and helicopter gunships and A-10s on ground attack, instead of P-47 strafing runs. I could get down with that. 

I don't know if they want to go sci-fi, with Starcraft II just around the corner.  But maybe something along the lines of Battlefield 2142 that goes a little futuristic without becoming a laser beam and starships kind of game might do well.

[raydude]

I think they could easily go modern combat and go COD4's route with some sort of alternate reality war scenario, where both sides have armor. No doubt the engine could do awesome stuff with M-1s, Strykers, Bradleys etc. and helicopter gunships and A-10s on ground attack, instead of P-47 strafing runs. I could get down with that. 

The only hesitation I have with a modern day setting is that the people who already think the engagement ranges are unrealistic looking for COH now are going to have a field day when they see M-1's squaring off against T-72's half a city block away. I have to admit, I'm not ready to stretch my disbelief at seeing modern tanks almost touching before they can fire at each other.

It will also be hard for me to get used to seeing modern vehicles miss. Nowadays, its all about putting the laser dot on the target and getting a 99.9% hit rate. The frustration factor may rise if I see my M-1s missing more than once while trying to hit the target.

It works for games like Red Alert because I'm already on board with the cartoony aspect, especially with the time travel and hokey cutscenes.

[Blackjack]

I see your point. That upcoming strategy game (R.U.S.E.) we've shown interest in here, where you can zoom out to a board game view and zoom in ultra close quickly, might be better suited to modern combat even if the game is another WWII game.

I think you can maybe make modern combat "missing" easier to stomach by giving each side some jamming and counter surveillance tools, having crazy weather and environs (desert storms, radioactive storms, etc.) and channeling the combat into urban and maybe cavern environs that do force you to try to get eyeball to eyeball to some extent, as opposed to sitting 5 miles from each other in an open/field desert and firing from so far way you never see each other at all.

I was never all that comfortable with the idea of terrorists as a "class" (as in C&C: Generals, and to some extent Act of War: Direct Action), and I'd rather see armor vs. armor clashes in a COH-engined game. However, maybe a modern combat game could throw some "insurgent" tactics into the mix (IEDs and the like) that could damage uber tanks on each side and impair the ability to be 100% "fire and forget" weapons on the battlefield.

Or else you could do some post-apocalyptic alternate-reality type game where you've got battered, rag tag forces and no satellite imagery surveillance available.

So, my thought is just that they could do a modern combat game if they wanted to - hopefully if they took in concerns about it, they could work their way around that and in the process, maybe come up with some cool game stuff.