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Author Topic: Company of Heroes (beta) Multiplayer Tactics&AARs  (Read 3305 times)
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Calvin
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« on: August 28, 2006, 02:33:50 PM »

Hey guys, wanted a new thread dedicated just to this since the other one was kinda misleading and bloated. Hope the 10 of us or so that are really into the game can get some good discussion going. My first big report is to follow shortly.
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 06:08:37 PM »

Well, I got my 6th game in last night.  That is two victories under my belt as a result.  Whooo!  I also accepted all the friends requests that I had pending. (Sorry guys, didn't think to look there)

I'm interested to play with you guys to see how you guys do it...
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Calvin
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2006, 08:45:17 PM »

Impressions after ~10 games from Friday-Monday. The game is good. Damn good. Mofoing. Good. Rise of Legends earlier this year became my favorite MP rts ever and one of my favorites all around. If the SP is anywhere near as good as this multiplayer (and a reviewer who has finished the game tells me it is), this will probably be in my top 2 for SP RTS, and its already #1 for MP. It is just a fantastic, phenomenally deep and complex  yet simple on the surface RTS. It is also the only RTS I have ever played that correctly models and presents tactical considerations onto the battlefield. It's just that good. I keep telling myself I am going to stop playing the beta so as to not ruin it for the full game. Each and every time I do that I get the one more game urge.

I started this weekend a below average 1v1 player and a mediocre 2v2 or larger map player. I ended yesterday with a winning record on Allies and Axis, and thanks especially to Raydude and a lot of reading I think I qualify as no worse than average now smile

Anyways, some general balance gameplay thoughts:

-The speed of the game (ie, the speed things move, build, shoot, die, etc) is still too fast. I would like it slowed down 25% or include a speed slider for custom mp games.
-The speed that the game develops and progresses is slower now thanks to the last patch. Maybe 10% slower in terms of resources coming in and moving up tiers. It should be another 10% slower.

Allies:Most of my experience is with the allies, so here goes-
-It is much more difficult to field an effective combined arms infantry company than for the Axis because only one unit is availabe from the barracks (well, excluding the jeep). This is an enormous early advantage for axis if they can get HMG's in good locations covering VPs. It forces the Allied player to either reseearch grenade/BAR early (which is hard because of fuel concerns), or build the heavy weapon center as well, which costs you one early attack unit and eats up precious early fuel. Countering this is difficult. However, allies that rely on heavy weapons early on MUST build a barracks eventually and upgrade rifleman or they will be grossly outclassed later on without infantry support (unless you can supplement completely with upgraded light vehicles or ranger teams).

-The rifleman is a wonderful unit. Use it well. I like to have heavy weapons support, but in most games my first priority is upgrading rifleman. Always with sticky bombs and usually with BAR instead of grenades. Grenades are good, but cost as much to use as the BAR, but they require you to get in much closer and thus get much much more vulnerable to tier 3-4 German units-plus they can be dodged and miss frequently. The rifleman must be the cornerstone of your infantry forces.

-The BAR is a tremendous weapon. It is expensive to get, but brilliant to use. Axis players are calling for a nerf of the weapon (which is tremendously lame because they have 3 tier 3 infantry units that are awesome), so do not be suprsied if this becomes a one target weapon or the munitions cost is increased. Basically the BAR pins down enemy squads when you use its special power-which is tremendously useful and the only real way to negate the advantage of Knights Cross Holders and Stormtroopers later in the game.

-Mortars are your friend. If you go heavy weapons at all, you should have one. Use it as constant suppressive fire in the main corridor of attack/advance for your enemies if nothing else.

-The jeep is not a good counter to enemy snipers. Another sniper or light armor is.

-The M8 is not as useful as it looks. Its upgrades are costly, it goes down very easily, and it takes a bit too much fuel to be useful to build early on-expect it to get cheaper in some way in the future.

-The allied halftrack rules you. Seriously. If you are going heavy armor, you want it to supplement your infantry, if you are going heavy infantry and AT, you will need this to protect your infantry. Halftracks are inexpensive (20 fuel? no way), and for a reasonable 100 munitions get quad .50 cal machine guns. These are devastating, and not imbalanced like the Ost Panzer because the halftrack is very, very vulnerable to cannon fire and AT. Great unit that can be countered well but is super useful.

-Allied tanks have been boosted, and IMO are going to get knocked back down or the german tanks are going back up. They balanced this too much and took a huge chunk out of the realistic advantage in the strength/technology of advanced german armor. The sherman simply takes too many hits to kill from anything but a Tiger or an 88. Its not a good representation of the Sherman in relation to the German tanks, its inexpensive so its an easy thing to build for the Allies. Something is giong to change here, because it really does negate kind of the point of german heavy armor. The M10 wolverine is still an excellent option. I frequently build 3 of these with a quad halftrack for support in place of two Shermans (same rough cost), and it works very well.

- The airborne tree is of very limited use IMO, but I have only tried it a few times. Right now I am split between infantry and armor, and I find them both equal enough that I basically just decide what style to play early on and then take the appropriate one rather than being slaved to one at the beginning.

Axis thoughts and game AAR's to come soon!
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 12:34:32 AM »

That's some good shiz, Cal.  Unfortunately, I dislike RTS games, so have fun   nod
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 05:03:56 AM »

I find that the Airborne units are REALLY useful for creating a box.  When you've got enemy tanks bearing down on you, dropping an arty piece behind them to punch holes in their armor can really turn the tide.  Paratroopers are often pretty handy for holding off minor probe units looking for attacks of opportunity.  Thats my 2c anyway.
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2006, 06:07:39 AM »

Well actually, airborne does have abilities that allow you to keep the pressure on the enemy by constantly surprising them.  However, it's not an all out assault stopper like the German branches.

One nice trick to use with the paratroopers is to constantly drop in paratroops right on top of key enemy resource points (all fuel points and any +10 points), then use the satchel charge to blow away the observation post in one shot and quickly cap it before defenders arrive.

This, in effect, helps keep the enemy off balance while also robbing him of resources.

Much of airborne abilities require backup in the form of another larger force doing the main fighting, with the airborne wreaking havoc behind them now that you know where the bulk of his force is.  If you're prepared for an attack, one nasty thing to do is to let the enemy come rushing in, hit them with your main defense force, then drop paras all over enemy lines and cap all their key resource points.  When you mop up the attack force, the enemy can't rebuild as quickly as you can.

I've been looking at the branches lately and I've noticed that to make best use of the three branches early on, stick with one tree of a branch and adjust your tactics to suit that skill tree..

For instance, when playing as the Germans using the defense branch, if you focus on the defensive tree, there are three abilities.  For the Fatherland, which gives a very nice defensive bonus to units on your own territory, fortify the Perimeter (or similar) which gives all of your base buildings machineguns and allows you to reinforce infantry around bunkers.  Finally, you have the dreaded flak 88, which is direct fire, but will tear apart vehicle and infantry alike.  So the tactic would be to move forward, building bunkers wherever you go.  After a while if you've built enough bunkers and observations posts you should have enough XP to build 88s (building any building gives you a lot of XP).  If you do this correctly, you'll be able to build 1-3 flak 88s in positions with good vantage points right in time for enemy tanks to start appearing.  These should make quick work of the first tanks that show up, and while the enemy is still reeling from the loss of resources, you can push forward into his territory.  If you come under fire, you can retreat infantry back to bunkers to reinforce and if they have LOS, the 88s can still fire on anything your infantry spot.

On MG deployment.  Be conservative with where you place MGs, putting an MG too far forward makes him easily flanked, especially early in the game where you don't have many backup units.  MGs actually have quite a long range, farther than they can see.  So, it's useful to deploy an MG slightly behind the main infantry force.  As the infantry move up and spot targets the MG will open up and suppress them.  Then you can safely move up a selective killer unit like a mortar or sniper behind the cover of the MG to deal with the appropriate targets.  Oh and if an enemy keeps moving his units back and force behind and MG as you try to redeploy it, simply have the MG redeploy is exactly the same facing as before.  Your enemy will see the redeploy but sometimes won't see where it's redeploying until after he's moved his units back into your firing arc.

For allies, I usually recommend building the weapons depot first, and using engineers to double as fighters with MG and sniper backup.  If you do build a barracks first, just spam the basic infantry and get the grenade ability first.  This'll allow them to simply overwhelm enemy MGs and snipers, even more useful if you have engineers in on the charge, maybe with a flamethrower upgrade.

Also, allied MGs have an AP round ability that will help you deal with early armored car rushes from the germans.  However, it cannot be used while the MG is in a building.

Since there's no building requirement for the next tier of German units, Allied players must be wary of tech rushes.  Thankfully, if you control a lot of the map, the first tech rush will likely be one or two of the new unit.  Stay and fight with your infantry.  Once you defeat them push forward hard, even with weak units so long as they have support you can usually take a lot of territory.  At that point it's critical to take the fuel points.

Despite my earlier tip, it's often better to retreat units back to the base and wait until they have proper support before making a counter attack.  It's useful to have one sort of ranged killer in an attack.  That's either a mortar, AT gun, or sniper.

When using snipers, don't be afraid to decloak them to have them quickly move to another area.  Just make sure you stay away of enemy territory and observation posts to prevent your sniper from being seen and killed before he reaches his destination.  In one game my teammate had only infantry and was having trouble dealing with an MG that had run forward into a building in our territory.  He had massed infantry and engineers with flamethowers to assault the building and flame it out, but that would have inflicted so many casualties that they couldn't fight back the enemy infantry that was taking the points behind the MG.  I ran my sniper up and quickly killed the MG team and my teammate's infantry moved up and surprised the enemy that were busy capturing our points.
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2006, 12:35:51 PM »

I hope you get commission, you just sold a preorder.
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greeneggsnham
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2006, 01:05:38 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on August 30, 2006, 12:35:51 PM

I hope you get commission, you just sold a preorder.

Make that 2. I'd been on the fence for a while, even though I'm a HUGE fan of relic, and this just put me over.
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2006, 01:36:09 PM »

Just want to begin to say that having played with Turtle I respect his opinions, but wanted to throw in some vehment disagreement to a few of his very well thought out posts: smile

Quote from: Turtle on August 30, 2006, 06:07:39 AM

Well actually, airborne does have abilities that allow you to keep the pressure on the enemy by constantly surprising them.  However, it's not an all out assault stopper like the German branches.
See, you make good points, but this is the problem. You have really a few very useful things here: Paratroopers, which are suprisingly powerful (and I think reinforce below 3 squad members?) plus they have the excellent satchel abililty. All around great unit. The rest of the tree however, is of limited utililty. The ultimate supply drop ability seems to be suprisingly mediocre, and the paradropped AT gun is good, but rarely can be used behind enemy lines effectively without immediately being flanked. The scout plane is fine, if of relatively little use other than spotting for air raids, which are expensive and not particularly effective until its most upgraded form. I just don't see a lot of utility here.

Quote from: Turtle
I've been looking at the branches lately and I've noticed that to make best use of the three branches early on, stick with one tree of a branch and adjust your tactics to suit that skill tree.
I agree completely. If you are going armor and want heavy tanks, go straight up the pershing line-however, dont cripple yourself for important upgrades-even if you are going straight Pershing, spend that second point in rapid deployment (same in infantry tree), because it definately helps.

Quote from: Turtle
For allies, I usually recommend building the weapons depot first, and using engineers to double as fighters with MG and sniper backup.  If you do build a barracks first, just spam the basic infantry and get the grenade ability first.  This'll allow them to simply overwhelm enemy MGs and snipers, even more useful if you have engineers in on the charge, maybe with a flamethrower upgrade.
Here is my biggest disagreement with you. I used to be a very strong proponent of HMG early on in the game, and its true that if you can get HMG set up early on, you can dominate victory points. But it sets you back a long way with buildnig a viable infantry force, so either you are going to slow way down in Tier 2-3 to build back, or you are going to rely on vehicles early and hope that gets you through. I find that going HW early is a make or break. If it works well and the opponent chews himself up against your MGs enough, you win, if not...you can be in bad shape early on when he counterattacks with mortar, sniper, or early armor. As for the infantry and the grenade ability-I already outlined above why I think that is the worst infantry ability-and most early game HMG's will NOT be out in the open where a grenade can finish them off-they almost always are clustered in buildings at least in the initial rush and hold stage. Still, your massed flamethrower idea for flushing out HMGs in buildnigs might be a very good one, I just think you would take a lot of casualties.

Quote from: Turtle
When using snipers, don't be afraid to decloak them to have them quickly move to another area.  Just make sure you stay away of enemy territory and observation posts to prevent your sniper from being seen and killed before he reaches his destination.  In one game my teammate had only infantry and was having trouble dealing with an MG that had run forward into a building in our territory.  He had massed infantry and engineers with flamethowers to assault the building and flame it out, but that would have inflicted so many casualties that they couldn't fight back the enemy infantry that was taking the points behind the MG.  I ran my sniper up and quickly killed the MG team and my teammate's infantry moved up and surprised the enemy that were busy capturing our points.

I still don't like snipers and think they are grossly overpowered, both in terms of damage and the fact that they can hide themselves so easily and quickly after a shot and go back to camo so quickly. I still dont have a particularly great way to deal with them early on, and I don't think the jeep is very good at it-and frankly I think its a mediocre unit included mainly to be a counter to snipers-and I think its a stupid reason for that unit to exist. Anyways, I just dont like snipers. I don't like the design, I don't like the play mechanics.
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2006, 01:49:01 PM »

Don't worry Calvin, I'll tell them to give you 5% as well.

There's still no single player demo that allows for a 1v1 skirmish against the AI, right?
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2006, 01:52:46 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on August 30, 2006, 01:36:09 PM

I still don't like snipers and think they are grossly overpowered, both in terms of damage and the fact that they can hide themselves so easily and quickly after a shot and go back to camo so quickly. I still dont have a particularly great way to deal with them early on, and I don't think the jeep is very good at it-and frankly I think its a mediocre unit included mainly to be a counter to snipers-and I think its a stupid reason for that unit to exist. Anyways, I just dont like snipers. I don't like the design, I don't like the play mechanics.

In anything above a 1vs1 game all it takes is one person to invest in two jeeps or two motorbikes and hold them in reserve near the front lines but far enough back that you can leave them alone while you do more important things. Then, once the sniper comes, have both units attack in. I find that it is easier to just click on the ground near the sniper and the units will engage. This way even if the sniper retreats I just click on the ground behind the sniper and the jeeps will keep pace with it, all the time shooting at the sniper until he's dead.

Then just bring the jeeps back behind the lines ASAP! If you have time, you can repair them, if not, put them in a safe place for the next snipe hunt.

But like I said, you only need one guy to do this. The other teammates can go merrily on their way while you go on temporary sniper-killing duty. Or I should say, while I go on sniper killing duty smile.
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2006, 03:15:09 PM »

Very good idea for a 2v2 anti-sniper strat. Still think its harder to do in 1v1, since that takes two whole squads of more useful troops away from you at what usually is critical early stages in the battle. Shall we incorporate it sometime this week into a 2v2? smile
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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2006, 03:46:36 PM »

German Thoughts:

I have less experience with the Axis, but strangely enough have yet to lose with them (which in no way indicates I am anything more than an average Axis player!). I think they are more powerful overall than the Allies, which may be the design intent, but they are definately more vulnerable early on. In fact, I have had Axis opponents simply grind to a halt for 5-10 minutes after what I call the initial build,attack, and hold phase. Usually this happens if they "lose" the early game battles-on a small map they get repulsed from the central VP and must either counter or try to come around the map to get the third. Sometimes they will stop even if they win that crucial early victory. The main reason seems to be because many Axis players don't like tier 2 units and functionality and simply sit and wait to get to tier3. Even good players seem to do this instead of putting on the pressure with Volks or HMG and mortar teams or even going halftracks to put constant pressure on. Either way, tier 2 is not a strongpoint for the axis, but I do find it useful.

As for the combat trees, I find defense and blitzkrieg extremely useful, and extremely strong. At least as good as the infantry and armor trees of the Allies, and probably better. The propoganda tree I haven't played with very much (once I think), but I thought it was interesting but ultimately suited to a supporting role ala airborne.

German advanced infantry is extremely powerful. Extremely. Grenadiers upgraded rock, upgraded stormtroopers are the best infantry in the game (although they only have 4 members to balance that out), Knight's Cross Holders with mp44 are devastating at close range. Most german players eschew them for the more obvious tanks, but they are a potent, deadly force that is just as effective as the german tanks IMO.

The 88 rules. Its range of fire and cone of vision needs to be increased to make it more useful, but its an awesome weapon when it works.

The German uber tanks are underpowered right now. The Panzer IV is probably just right, the StuG's main gun should be a bit a stronger as it is too weak-maybe increase the power of the gun and decrease the defensive capabililty or make it a tad more fuel dependant. The Panther is suprisingly not a great buy right now. It is all of a sudden very vulnerable to AT and especially upgraded Sherman fire now, and it takes way too many shots for it to knock out Shermans and Wolverines. The last patch took its power down too much IMO, especially considering the cost. Needs a buff. Same exact feelings with the Tiger, which is now quite vulnerable, and it shouldn't be. Make it more expensive if need be, but restore its power, its ferocity. It was a rare tank that scared the bejesus out of anyone that had to fight it-return that authenticity to the game.

The nebelwerfer kinda sucks. I dont use it much, its very vulnerable, its quite expensive. Not my thing.
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« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2006, 04:24:47 PM »

I find jeeps and motorcycles to be extremely useful, even though with my strategies I usually don't build them.  They're a very effective rapid response force with an MG.  Just one of these backing up your infantry can swing a battle your way.  If you're being pinned by an MG that's not in a building the jeep or motorcycle is fast enough to zip around behind the MG and fire on the rear.  Early in game they kill engineer units pretty quickly.

I've been playing axis and have gotten pretty good with them.  Playing early Germans meanins knowing your basic units such as the motorcycle, the volksgrenediers, MG team, and sniper. 

I like volksgrenediers squads for their MP44 upgrade.  These babies will simply mow through enemy units at close range.  Assuming you don't get hit by the suppression fire ability, then simply run a squad of volks right on top of the enemy and enemies will start dropping dead.  I've seen a single volks squad kill 2.5 allied infantry squads when I sent them forward into the cover they'd been using.  The best thing about this is that usually, the volks will kill a squad so fast that your opponent has no time to retreat them.  The best way to use volks is to let the MG team supporting them suppress the enemy, then run the volks in there before the enemy can retreat.

The MG42 team for the germans is much more effective against infantry than the allied MG, it suppresses or pins much more quickly, can suppress more enemy squads at once, kills more quickly if the enemy is in the open, and I think it has slightly longer range.  However, it doesn't get any sort of anti vehicle capability, instead it's just very good at dealing with infantry.  Just follow the MG deployment tactics in my earlier post and use them as a support unit unstead of a front line force and you'll be fine.  I should mention that one great strategy for using the MG on attack is to use bounding MG teams.  One team is setup to cover the other team as it moves foward.  This is great if you can move one of your MG teams into a building in enemy territory as it'll block any advance until you remove him.  If the MG team is killed while their weapon is deployed outside a building, the weapon stays behind allowing anyone to man it again.  This is both a good and bad thing, as the enemy can steal the gun if you don't have your own infantry nearby, but also you can reman the gun it its crew is killed in the middle of a battle for much cheaper and faster than building a new team.  There was one game where I'd done so well against enemy MGs that I had 5 mg teams that I'd stolen from the enemy.  Unfortunately, with only 3 members the MG team is vulnerable to support killers like the sniper and mortar, but this isn't so much a problem if you're using support.

The reason why it's not as much a problem is that you have the other units as support.  If an enemy sniper starts killing the MG team, you can run a volks squad right on top of the sniper to kill him, or use your own sniper to kill the enemy sniper.  I usually have a sniper on hold-fire near my MG teams at all times.  If an enemy sniper shoots nearby, my own sniper quickly kills him.  Once their sniper is dealt with I can have my own sniper fire at will for a while since I know the enemy won't have much to kill my own sniper with.  If mortars are the problem, a sniper can deal with them, just make sure to fire the sniper only once while he's on hold fire.  Then move up a volks squad to see if any enemy snipers or MG teams are there.    If not, have the sniper fire at will and move up the volks.  If an enemy sniper does start firing, you'll have two ways to kill him, the same goes for an MG.  If there is no support for the mortar, you should be able to quickly rush the mortar and kill it.  Even better if you kill it while it's still deployed you can take the weapon for yourself and quickly retreat your new mortar team out of harms way.

In effect, the german starting units give you all of the main assets you need for an effective combined arms assault early in the game, their strategy is pinned around using the MGs, to support infantry on the advance, then the other support units to deal with specific situations.

The 88 has no cone of vision, it can rotate 360 degrees to engage targets at all angles.  All it needs is line of sight, which can be difficult on some maps, but it does have range.

The purpose of the nebelwerfer is if you don't have enough fuel to progress to the battle phase to get tanks or even build them.  Then they provide very valuable artillery support to retake fuel points and such at a time when you can't get walking stukas.  They're especially useful for killing enemy AT gun crews, as are walking stukas.  Move a tank up slowly to get the AT guns to fire.  Then hit those positions with rockets, repair the tank and repeat.  They'll also quickly suppress any infantry in the effect radius, making it easier for your own infantry to storm the place.  I don't use them much because I like the mobility of walking stukas more despite their cost.  However, I've had plenty of teammates use them to great effect.

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« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2006, 04:58:10 PM »

I am already very familiar with HMG tactics, but thanks for the thoughts on the motorcycles/jeeps, and nebelwerfers.

When I said cone of vision for the 88, I meant troubles with line of sight.

Also-I have very very little experience with Walking Stuka's so thanks for the input on those. Like I said, much newer to axis play, good to hear your thoughts.

Game tonight?
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« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2006, 06:00:52 PM »

Remember, 11 more days for this to arrive.

I shelved the demo a few days back so the release will be "Fresh" for me when it hits.. A couple weeks off should do the trick for me.
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« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2006, 06:08:52 PM »

I plan on doing the same thing Kobra, I just am allowing myself one more 2v2 before I do so...just one more.
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2006, 06:46:23 PM »

I look at it this way:

Most of my gaming friends didn't even try to get the free multiplayer client, but they love Dawn of War so it should be a cinch to get them to play this. That's 4-5 new people to play with. And new people always come up with new and different ways of playing, so that should be fun. Ditto more fun at the next lan party.

Then there's the other 16 or so multiplayer maps which are not in the beta, but will be in the full game - including maybe a few 4 vs 4 ones.  Then there's the modding and mapping utilities, and already some people are clamoring to make a "realistic" mod - so who knows where that will go. Then there's the single player game campaign.

So I'm playing my heart out whenever I can smile.
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« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2006, 06:26:02 PM »

Since most people seem to be following this thread, I guess it's the appropriate place.

According to OO, 15k beta keys went up for grabs on Fileplanet today. Sign up at MP signup on Fileplanet and get the download from Client DL on FP.

I think there's also a community torrent site up that has the client available; it might be a better (or just another) option for the client.

Now hopefully my wife got me signed up, since I can't access the site!
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2006, 06:36:45 AM »

The walking stukas for the germans is pretty much the best way to constantly advance on the enemy if he's got defenses setup.  Later in the game it's useful to have 2-3 of these babies if you can afford them, and protect them.  They're costly, but well worth it.  They're more mobile than nebelwefers, more surviveable, and don't cost munitions after the initial upgrade.  You can move them up quickly to fire a salvo, then run them back behind lines in preperation for the response.

They're best used with tanks and some infantry to take out AT guns.  Because of their inaccuracy they're not good at killing bunkers of any sort.  However, they can kill or pin infantry quite easily, including AT gun crews.  Use a single tank or some infantry to spot AT guns, fire a salvo on top of the AT guns to disrupt them.  Move up the tanks to kill any MG nests in the area, then move in infantry right behind the tanks to kill any remaining AT guns and grab the AT guns from the enemy.

They're also useful for scouting areas, when you fire artillery into the fog, if the arty hits anything it'll briefly show up on the map.  So before you launch an assault you can prep the path with arty and at the same time see how well defended it is.
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2006, 05:35:10 PM »

A little off topic (but not much):
A new single player company of heroes demo to be released in a few days. Including SKIRMISH MODE   nod thumbsup
http://www.gamespot.com/promos/2006/companyofheroes-demo/index.html?tag=coh_csbox_hp
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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2006, 09:00:10 PM »

Just wondering, anyone up for some games sometime? Any way to get in touch with you guys online?

I've tried the automatch, but it pretty much seems to be an autodefeat, since I'm coming in green here. I'd rather get a 2vs2 against some computers, but I can't seem to get any luck in people joining the games I've tried to start.
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2006, 01:59:47 AM »

JESUS.. I saw my son win 3 games tonight just using the barracks for US, engineers, then using Rangers and Air Bombardment.

I said "WTF IS UR TANKS SON???", he said "I win without tanks, I use troops and micromanage..".  Err...

So I sat here, watching him, the enemy rushed with 3-4+ Ost Flak Tanks, I thought his base was toast I said "LOLZ your base is gone soon.".  So my son had 6 jeeps hidden, rushed into that guys base while his tanks were out playing, and cut to SHREDS the infantry the guy kept trying to bring in to support his tanks AND he bombarded him to bits tearing up his buildings to rubble.  The Ost's rushed in to my sons base, hit 3-4 layers of minefields, took em down to less than 25% health, then my son moved in 2-3 ranger teams behind the Ost's using walls and sandbags as cover (looked like the fucking western front in his base from the sand bags everywhere) and tore them to shreds with bazookas.

Pretty damn impressive!  Not having SOME armor worries the hell out of me, but my son absolutely SKOOLS people with infantry only, and heavy micro.  Hes got like 27 victories, 4 losses, infantry only.  eek
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2006, 05:43:53 AM »

I am STILL finding the pace with this game far too hectic.  It totally rewards rushers and to me, it seems like it boils down to who can put the best mix at the most capture points, the fastest. I played 4-5 games tonight, and found it far too quick and not being very satisfactory with the speed of things.   


In one game for example, I run 3 engineer squads out ASAP to grab the right victory point.  So the other guy rushes them with 2 motorcyles, and 3 engineer squads.  So I go back with 2 engineer squads, and 1 jeep, and a MG team to setup.  So he counters with  5 Motorcycles and rips apart my shit.  That seems a bit "Spammy" to me, and I absolutely hate unit spam bullshit.

Another game, I swear to god, he put an OST flak tank in my base within 5 minutes of the match starting.  I barely was even done working on base defenses by that point, and unless I ALSO rushed to tanks or AT guns, I was hopeless to defend this since infantry is useless against them (as are MG nests).

It just seems like other people force how I play the game.  I like games where I can build a battle plan, then execute it, and it might not work, but at least I put up a good fight and had time to contemplate how the plan was going.  In this game, I don't even have time to make battle plans, let alone execute them, because within minutes, I have Ost's driving through my base.

50% reduction in game speed.. STAT!
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2006, 05:56:44 AM »

Quote from: greeneggsnham on September 02, 2006, 09:00:10 PM

Just wondering, anyone up for some games sometime? Any way to get in touch with you guys online?

I've tried the automatch, but it pretty much seems to be an autodefeat, since I'm coming in green here. I'd rather get a 2vs2 against some computers, but I can't seem to get any luck in people joining the games I've tried to start.

Check out the multiplayer forum for the CoH names list: http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,14145.0.html
Add your name there and we'll all invite you as a friend. So, once you're a friend you'll hear a ringing sound and be able to tell when other friends are online. You can then invite friends into matches, even into password protected ones. Perfect for when you want to do a 2v2 or 3v3 against AI with some friends.
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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2006, 06:05:55 AM »

Quote from: Kobra on September 03, 2006, 05:43:53 AM

I am STILL finding the pace with this game far too hectic.  It totally rewards rushers and to me, it seems like it boils down to who can put the best mix at the most capture points, the fastest. I played 4-5 games tonight, and found it far too quick and not being very satisfactory with the speed of things.   


In one game for example, I run 3 engineer squads out ASAP to grab the right victory point.  So the other guy rushes them with 2 motorcyles, and 3 engineer squads.  So I go back with 2 engineer squads, and 1 jeep, and a MG team to setup.  So he counters with  5 Motorcycles and rips apart my shit.  That seems a bit "Spammy" to me, and I absolutely hate unit spam bullshit.

Another game, I swear to god, he put an OST flak tank in my base within 5 minutes of the match starting.  I barely was even done working on base defenses by that point, and unless I ALSO rushed to tanks or AT guns, I was hopeless to defend this since infantry is useless against them (as are MG nests).

It just seems like other people force how I play the game.  I like games where I can build a battle plan, then execute it, and it might not work, but at least I put up a good fight and had time to contemplate how the plan was going.  In this game, I don't even have time to make battle plans, let alone execute them, because within minutes, I have Ost's driving through my base.

50% reduction in game speed.. STAT!

I find games also depend a LOT on timing and proper deployment. I am finding that, if I presume to rush,rush,rush to VPs and objectives, that more often than not I'll be ripped to pieces by units already there or not be able to hold them. In contrast, I've seen people who take a little bit of time, set up sandbags and barbed wire just outside visual range of the VP, and build up their units there. Set up MGs and jeeps behind the sand bags and then send up the infantry as bait. If he takes the bait, then pull the infantry back and the MGs on the jeep and the unit MGs will open up. I'm guessing the 5 motorcycle dude just circle strafed all your stuff so he couldn't get hit by the MGs or the jeeps. one or 2 lengths of tank traps on either side of the sand bags and it makes it a lot harder for the cycles to outflank.

I've also taken to putting tank obstacles up as priority 1 in multiplayer games. Put them up along the obvious entrances so it at least delays the timing for vehicle rushes. The second engineer unit goes out and captures objectives. the delay in resources is almost negligible for the amount of grief that it saves. In addition that sort of rush tactic is a gamble that is easy to counter and make fail, paving the way for an early offensive.

Of course, the above is only in 2v2 or 3v3 games. I never play 1v1 anymore because I can't handle being offense, defense, and builder all at the same time.


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« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2006, 03:47:06 AM »

Quote from: raydude on September 01, 2006, 05:35:10 PM

A little off topic (but not much):
A new single player company of heroes demo to be released in a few days. Including SKIRMISH MODE   nod thumbsup
http://www.gamespot.com/promos/2006/companyofheroes-demo/index.html?tag=coh_csbox_hp

didn't want to start a new thread, but if you've downloaded the new single player demo, you should check out the 'check performance' button in the graphics setup.  It plays a really cool cinematic using the game engine and pops out framerates.
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« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2006, 04:20:44 AM »

If your opponents have built bunkers, but otherwise have the same amount of purchased as you, don't worry.  Get an AT gun to pound their position.  They have ridiculous range and can easily hit bunkers from beyond enemy range, they're also more accurate than pounding away with mortars especially so if you use a hidden sniper to spot.  They're also much less vulnerable from the front.  If the crew dies, you can recrew it provided you hold the line, and AT guns aren't that high up on the tech tree either.

However, it's important to have a defense line spread out to defend the AT gun.  The one thing you can be thankful for is that those bunkers are a pretty big expenditure of resources, at least for allies.  The german one is a pain since they're so cheap, but they also require munitions.

You enemy will undoubtedly move forward to attack your gun.  To beat back the attack I suggest some tactics.

First, have an MG nearby to suppress the wave of incoming infantry.  It's also useful to have a normal infantry squad to provide the killing blow by moving up right on top of the suppressed enemy to kill them.  Mortars are also fun in that when the enemy gets suppressed, the mortars fall on them while they can't move.  Having two squads of basic infantry is the best, as it gives you fighting units to move forward to retake the just vacated position.

If you suspect your opponent has vehicles and will rush behind your AT gun, buy a second AT gun in put it a ways back behind the first AT gun, but still in range of the first AT gun.  The first AT gun should hurt any approaching vehicles and when they drive behind the first AT gun thinking they're safe, the second AT gun should be able to destroy them in one shot.  Don't bother moving the first AT gun, just keep shooting the enemy.

I had an allied enemy that built no less than 4 bunkers on St. Hillaire, the 2v2 railroad map.  Unfortunately for him I was prepared and moved up my AT guns and blasted the bunkers away.  The little infantry he had rushed forward, but couldn't reach my AT gun with the MG guarding it.  Since he's spent so much on the bunkers he didn't have much to challenge me when I destroyed the 3 bunkers guarding the central hill and pushed forward my infantry and newly built tanks behind them.
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« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2006, 11:00:52 PM »

Is it true that you can still get into the beta if you pre-order at a Gamestop or EB?  Or is the beta totally closed now?
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« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2006, 01:01:06 AM »

They released 1500 new MP keys a while back,  not sure if there are any more left, though.
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2006, 04:55:00 PM »

A Ranked 2Vs2 Company of Heroes Game After Action Report:

The map was Hill 330, which is normally a three player map, but in this case it was 2 vs 2. My partner was a random moe, which I'll call Moe. Our opponents were two random people as well, I'll call them Ratz and Saka. If you remember the map, and orient it so that Allies are bottom and Axis are the top, then what I refer to as VP1 is the victory point on the left, VP2 is the one on the Hill in the center, VP3 is the victory point on the right.

I sent my first engineer squad up the middle to capture VP 2, even before capturing anything else. This would put the Germans back on their heels to start and force them to come out and try to take VPs back from us. Ratz did so, sending up a motorbike-mg unit to strike at my engineers, forcing them to retreat.

My attempt to capture VP 1 didn't go so well. My engineer squad was outnumbered 2 to 1 and forced to retreat. I decided to come back with an infantry squad and found VP1 defended by two volksgrenadiers squads. One volks squad took cover behind a rusty pickup truck while we found cover behind a stack of firewood. Private Johnson threw a grenade, killing the volks squad in the open, but then the entire infantry squad was lost to a lucky panzerfaust shot by the remaining enemy unit. In the meantime VP 2 had fallen to the Germans. Moe and I got our act together, he sent up two MG teams and I sent an infantry unit. We capture VP2 and repelled the first counter-attack. A volks squad was moving up towards the hill in the open and my team, behind the wall, made short work of them.

Still, the midgame situation was critical. We were down on points and the Axis held VP 1 and VP 3. We needed to take at least another VP to change the points drain and make the axis lose points faster. On the right flank I was getting ready to take VP3 and had sent up a quad-50 halftrack along with some engineers and an airborne unit to take the objective. The infantry made its way up a path behind the MG bunker, while the quad-50 halftrack charged in from the front. The bunker, with its MG42 machine gun, was unable to damage the halftrack which lay down a hail of bullets from its 4 linked 50 caliber machine guns, killing the German defenders.

The Germans then tried an infantry assault on VP2, which was now lightly defended because Moe and I were busy taking VP3. He captured the point and held it for a brief while until the quad-50 halftrack was able to race to the objective. An paratroop airdrop came in and helped retake the point.

With the majority of the VPs controlled by our team, Moe decided to make a tank and vehicle advance against Ratz base. I let him go because I knew that keeping the VPs and draining the German victory points was far more important. Still, it served a purpose because it distracted Ratz enough to commit forces to defend against the advance instead of trying to take back the VPs 2 and 3. Meanwhile Saka was content to fortify his position on VP1 and didn't really venture out at all. I myself was trying to reinforce depleted infantry squads and figuring out how to attack and capture the last VP.

I carried out about 3 probing attacks with infantry, trying to figure out a way in, which is another way of saying I had 3 failed attempts at infantry assaults. VP1 was heavily defended, with an AT gun, mortar, heavy machine gun squad, two MG bunkers, and a grenadier squad. I was low on resources, and I decided I didn't have time to wait and build a tank factory then get some Shermans. So I snuck two infantry squads along path behind the defenses, which amazingly enough was left open. I radioed a P-51 to do a quick strafing run, killing the MG team and the anti-tank crew. Paratroops and an airdropped AT gun were brought in behind the defenses. After that, it was easy to pound the bunkers into dust with the AT gun and satchel charges.

Still, though, Moe's advance failed, and the Germans went on to capture VP3. The Germans were also slowly taking back territory as well, which was bad for us. German units require lots of ammo and fuel resources, which we had denied them up to this point. By taking back the ammo objectives the Germans would increase their ammo resource rate, allowing them to field more powerful units.

And then the Germans did what they do best - counter-attack. In the center at VP2 my meager airborne and AT gun faced a double whammy. A German tiger on the left flank and a German Panther coming up from behind. The defenders had no chance, and no survivors.

Saka took a Tiger tank and grenadiers against my forces on VP1 with the same result. In minutes we went from holding 3 VP locations to holding none. To add injury to injury Saka took that same Tiger and headed for my base, destroying the barracks and threatening to destroy all my other buildings. The timely airdrop of an AT gun and Moe sending up an M10 tank destroyer helped to eliminate that threat. As a final note in the German attack plan, a rocked-equipped German halftrack shot 6 salvos against my base, damaging some of my buildings before being driven off by the M10.

For the next 15 minutes Moe and I scrambled to build an assault force, first to attack VP2 in the center, and stop the bleed of victory points. We were up 255 to 5 but by capturing all three victory locations the Germans could bleed us straight down to zero with no loss to their own point total. Our points bled down to 197 before we were able to stop the bleeding, capturing VP2 in the center. Then, after two failed assaults on VP3, we managed to get infantry and airborne in with the help of some Allied armor. We captured it just in time, as German armor had defeated the infantry holding VP2 and the grenadiers were just about to recapture it when we won. The final score was 187 to 0.
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2006, 05:28:33 AM »

Had a similar situation on a 1v1 ranked.  I was axis.  Allied player jumped me with an early m10 which rushed into by base. I took it out with a stug.  Then he did it again with a sherman but this time dropping airborne and an AT gun.  I rushed my volks squad up to take the AT gun and killed the sherman with it along with one of my own AT guns.  I counter attacked with that AT gun, fending off 4-5 assault on my base by the skin of my teeth.  Fortunately for me, my enemy was focusing so much on my base he neglected to take back resource points.  His attack petered out and I was able to move forward and secure buildings.
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« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2006, 07:30:53 AM »

And some more observations from tonight's gaming.

First, include in your strategy which resource points you plan to grab and hold.  These points may not be the most mission critical at first, but depending on how you want to play your army, dedicating manpower to taking and holding these points can be more crucial than holding the middle of the map, or the victory points, at least at first.  Your opponent may hold the VP at first, but since you hold resource points, if you know how to play your army it should be too difficult to take out the defenders.  Plus by taking these points and building observatories on them, you earn a lot of XP which can give you a much needed edge over your opponent, perhaps enough to buy one of the strike abilities to help knock out the enemy from his position.

With this in mind, the allies are now much more viable having only the barracks at start.  If you make sure to go for fuel points right away, and build an obs on the first +10 fuel point you find, you can quickly upgrade your allied infantry with grenades.  And let me tell you, grenades have drastically increased in power for the allies, with no increase in cost.  In the open, grenades have quite a large blast radius and have enough power to reduce a full health MG42 team down to 1 very low health trooper, which your guys can easily finish off.  If they can't finish him off, just retreat and pay the ridiculously small reinforcement cost and send them back in.  All that for 25 munitions a throw.  If you find yourself about to be overrun, or simply needing to retreat from a position you know you can't hold, go ahead and toss a few grenades at the enemy just before retreating.  It should weaken the attacking force so that you won't have to deal with full strength defenders on your counter-attack.  The throwing animation is quite fast and the grenade detonates quickly.  Also, to assist in getting towards the enemy while under fire, the allied infantry are a good deal less prone to being pinned than before.  They'll still be suppressed, but depending on terrain can crawl forwards quite a bit before being fully pinned.  MGs have had their ability to pin multiple squads of infantry toned down.  If your infantry is caught at range by an MG then they still die, but if you somehow get in closer to an MG before it starts shooting with multiple squads, your chances are good.  In one instance I charged an MG setting up across an open field.  By the time I was in grenade range one squad was pinned and the other suppressed, but the grenade was thrown.  The remaining man was picked off by my suppressed infantry which moved up into close range while the remaining MG gunner was moving up to take the gun.

If the enemy is in a building, grenades are quite useful, but it depends on the size of the building and the luck of the throw.  If the enemy is in a small building or a wooden one, one grenade will either kill an entire squad of volks, or kill all but one.  As you can tell, it's a bad idea to put any valuable units in small buildings.  If it's a larger building, it's likely that your grenade will kill only 1 man and maybe injure another, which is actually a good portion of an MG team.  So if you throw with two squads.  Any remaining men should be easy to finish off.

This, of course, assumes that you've held fuel points long enough to get the infantry upgrades, then have taken and held enough munitions points to fund these abilities.  It's also critical that you build observation posts on +10 munitions points to provide much needed munitions income.

You'll have to assume that your infantry charges will make the axis player build vehicles asap, so make sure you upgrade your infantry to sticky bombs and build AT guns to deal with vehicles.  Keep an infantry squad near the AT guns to act as a backup crew and sticky bomb thrower and you can hold off most early tank assaults.  If no tank assault comes, simply assume that he's massing a big tank army and build accordingly.

This strategy is a high munitions cost strategy, thankfully if you pull it off it should be easy to hold these points early on.  However, this strategy does depend somewhat on the terrain.  On St. Hillaire, this strategy will run into problems in the urban area, as there are plenty of large buildings to hide in which tend to be grenade, AT, and mortar resistant.  I haven't tried this strategy in such terrain, yet but in my next game I will.

For axis players the lesson here is to deploy your MGs a bit back from the action, and always have infantry backup for them.  An MG42 team and a volks squad upgraded with assault rifles is a good team.  The volks deal with any threats that come close, often killing entire squads in mere seconds, the MG will help slow down the enemy by supppressing them.
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« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2006, 05:43:46 AM »

I can't seem to get the upper hand on the single player demo set to normal. On easy I barley win the game.
I' am a seasoned RTS vet. Does this mean I should not even try the multi. when the game comes out?
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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2006, 08:00:28 AM »

Awesome thoughts and AARs guys, can't wait to get the game in 8 hours and start up the OFFICIAL thread smile
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« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2006, 11:58:48 AM »

I don't want to derail your really cool thread here boys (so I won't)... but the reviews are starting to come in (IGN, Gamespot, Voodoo) - and the game is doing really, really well. 

I think we have a legitimate winner here.

Lockdown = Happy = Buying upon release.

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« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2006, 11:53:21 PM »

You guys have *way* more detailed ideas than I have so far, and I don't have much to add other than to agree with Turtle that snipers camouflaged and told to hold fire are absolutely excellent as spotters for either mortar fire or other artillery. I've cleared whole maps in one march by keeping a sniper or two hidden out front and holding fire, and moving my infantry up in steps behind them. It's especially helpful in more urban situations. You can clear out buildings the enemy has garrisoned before you ever come under fire from them if you keep a couple of mortar teams with you.

As for the comments about the airborne being the lesser of the three disciplines for the Allies, I have to say it's my favorite so far, though my experience with the Armor specialization is limited to one game. They have a lot of versatility that's not necessarily offered by the other two. I found that the Strafing/Bombing run abilities were particularly useful for helping out frontline forces, and their cost, while I don't know it off the top of my head, was cheap enough that I have never yet had a problem having enough munitions to use them when I needed them.

I have yet to play the Germans but I have a feeling I'll really like them.
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« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2006, 03:11:19 AM »

On the other hand, using snipers for combat by putting them slightly behind your main lines with hold fire off is a great way to level up a sniper.  High ranked snipers are just plain deadly.  Not sure what they get at level 1, but at level 2 snipers can move at almost their full running speed while cloaked and have a smaller detection radius.  At level 3 the can fire at a more rapid pace.
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