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Author Topic: Claim: 360 is just about FPS. Can't be more wrong.  (Read 637 times)
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StitchJones
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« on: May 09, 2006, 11:52:55 PM »

Are you kidding me?  Mass Effect, Too Human, Fable 2, Forza 2, Blue Dragon, Saints Row... What do all of these have in common?  They are all looking to be grade A titles, none of them is an FPS, and they are all 360 exclusives.  I'm sure I'm forgeting a lot more.  People just see what they want to see.  Both systems are gonna have some great games, the thing is the PS3 is gonna come at an extra $200 when people already felt $400 was pretty expensive.  Sony jumped on Blueray a generation too early.  It will not be widely adopted for some time yet.

Also, personally Bioware has reached Square proportions in my book.  Meaning their rpgs are too the point that I buy them regardless because I know the production value will be top nothch.
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Scott
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2006, 12:17:06 AM »

Lets see:

Saint's Row: From all star developer Volition?  I can't see this one being good.  Does this game involve a fair amount of shooting and driving?  Haven't seen this genre from Microsoft before...   When Volition publishes an above average game, it'll be a first.

Mass Effect: Squad based tactical game?  Never seen one of those on the XBox...

Fable 2: Will this even have 10% of the promised features from Mr Hype himself.

Forza 2: Probably going to be a pretty damn good game.  I forgot that racing was the other big genre for the XBox/360

Blue Dragon: Umm, we'll see, and its a way out..

Too Human: From IGN: "Players are treated to a nonstop barrage of action powered by the seamless integration of melee and ranged firearms combat. "  Hmm, another action game involving lots of shooting.

So, I guess you're right.  Microsoft doesn't just do FPS, but action games involving guns and cars.  

Quote
Also, personally Bioware has reached Square proportions in my book. Meaning their rpgs are too the point that I buy them regardless because I know the production value will be top nothch.

To bad Mass Effect isn't really going to be an RPG.  And after Jade Empire, Bioware's elite status is in question.  What a turd that game was.

Microsoft does the hardcore games well.  Microsoft just doesn't have a very diverse lineup of games, but some fans will really like it.  I enjoy quite a few of them, but I think Sony's lineup on the PS2, and most likely on the PS3 covers a broader range of users.
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2006, 12:25:43 AM »

Mass Effect is supposed to be just as much an RPG as KoTOR was.
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2006, 12:26:16 AM »

Sorry, have to jump in here... Volition is responsible for Descent: Freespace, and Freespace 2. Both of which are extremely solid space combat games with excelent story lines.
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2006, 12:28:02 AM »

Not everyone is desperate for something completely new and different.  What, you don't like Viva Pinata? slywink
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2006, 12:31:56 AM »

Quote from: "Atragon"
Sorry, have to jump in here... Volition is responsible for Descent: Freespace, and Freespace 2. Both of which are extremely solid space combat games with excelent story lines.


They are also to blame for the Summoner and Red Faction franchises. Volition hasn't released a decent game in years.
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Scott
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2006, 12:46:53 AM »

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Sorry, have to jump in here... Volition is responsible for Descent: Freespace, and Freespace 2. Both of which are extremely solid space combat games with excelent story lines.

Yeah, forgot those, they were good back in the day, about 10 years ago it seems smile.  I miss good space combat games.

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Mass Effect is supposed to be just as much an RPG as KoTOR was.

Not from what I've read, though I haven't seen anything conclusive.

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Not everyone is desperate for something completely new and different. What, you don't like Viva Pinata? Wink

Maybe I will, haven't read up on that one yet smile.

I want the 360 to do well, and I think until Microsoft mixes it up more, they are missing out on a big audience.  What games will the younger kids play on the 360 that is a fun exclusive?  Thank god Lego Star Wars 2 is coming out for the 360, so my kids can play that and I have a good reason to keep the 360 in the rotation smile.
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2006, 01:01:32 AM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
Quote from: "Atragon"
Sorry, have to jump in here... Volition is responsible for Descent: Freespace, and Freespace 2. Both of which are extremely solid space combat games with excelent story lines.


They are also to blame for the Summoner and Red Faction franchises. Volition hasn't released a decent game in years.


And don't forget that awful Punisher game.  After reading Play's recent artile on Saint's Row it comes off as pretty derivative and seems like a cash in.  Not really seeing anything to separate it from any of the other attempted GTA clones.
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EddieA
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2006, 01:02:38 AM »

There are some very nice new Mass Effect screenshots here.
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2006, 01:38:54 AM »

I liked Red Faction.

The second one, not so much.

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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2006, 02:34:47 AM »

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There are some very nice new Mass Effect screenshots here.

I haven't really seen any gameplay shots yet.  I'd love Mass Effect to be great, but Jade Empire may have been one of my biggest gaming disappointments ever, so I'm skeptical.
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2006, 02:45:18 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
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There are some very nice new Mass Effect screenshots here.

I haven't really seen any gameplay shots yet.  I'd love Mass Effect to be great, but Jade Empire may have been one of my biggest gaming disappointments ever, so I'm skeptical.


I loved Jade Empire, played it through 3 times by the time it was all said and done.  I would love to see some in game footage of Mass Effect.
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2006, 03:15:29 AM »

Summoner was a very good game and the company that made Freespace and Freespace 2 will always, always get the benefit of the doubt from me. Freespace 2 is a top 5 game of all-time.
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Chaz
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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2006, 03:19:03 AM »

Quote
Quote
   
Also, personally Bioware has reached Square proportions in my book. Meaning their rpgs are too the point that I buy them regardless because I know the production value will be top nothch.
   

To bad Mass Effect isn't really going to be an RPG. And after Jade Empire, Bioware's elite status is in question. What a turd that game was.


Because Square hasn't put out any turd games in their history (most recently, and most notably the beloved Final Fantasy X2).
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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2006, 03:26:14 AM »

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I want the 360 to do well


You do? It sure seems to me that 99% of your posts are negative about the system and games....
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« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2006, 05:37:53 AM »

Quote from: "Chaz"
Quote
Quote
   
Also, personally Bioware has reached Square proportions in my book. Meaning their rpgs are too the point that I buy them regardless because I know the production value will be top nothch.
   

To bad Mass Effect isn't really going to be an RPG. And after Jade Empire, Bioware's elite status is in question. What a turd that game was.


Because Square hasn't put out any turd games in their history (most recently, and most notably the beloved Final Fantasy X2).
Bioware's always made the same turd game, over and over again (it just has a different coat of paint each time).  Jade Empire detested because it didn't have the D&D or Star Wars fanboism to caulk over its flaws.

Mass Effect is going to suck.  Bioware can't even make RPGs that are different from eachother.  Them actually attempting to change entire genres will only be met with disaster.
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« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2006, 11:42:37 AM »

"Mass Effect" features a real-time, squad-based tactical combat system.

I don't understand this description.  Is it going to be like Raibow Six: Raven Shield (PC) or more like a fully real-time Jagged Alliance?
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2006, 11:52:09 AM »

All this discussion is for nothing.

And yes the Xbox 360 will fail unless one thing is announced this E3:

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic III

So there.   :wink: Tongue
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2006, 12:04:28 PM »

Quote from: "Lockdown"
"Mass Effect" features a real-time, squad-based tactical combat system.

I don't understand this description.  Is it going to be like Raibow Six: Raven Shield (PC) or more like a fully real-time Jagged Alliance?


Maybe like Operation Flashpoint?
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2006, 12:59:44 PM »

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You do? It sure seems to me that 99% of your posts are negative about the system and games....

Unlike you, I'm not going to jump up and down after a little show.  Its fine that you are excited about the 360.  Its fine that you were excited about Oblivion, and countless other games before it, then pissed when it didn't come out as promised at first.  Its fine when you post thread after thread hyping various games long before they are out.   Enthusiasm is great.  

I just won't be wowed by a few pretty screenshots and the announcements of more of the same from Microsoft.  I actually want them to increase their marketshare and offer something different from a few shooters.  

At the end of the day, what's really changed?  Microsoft is still catering to a smaller target audience then Sony, and has a smaller and less diverse game library.  The 360 won't make up marketshare that way.  You can have a lower price, and a year head start, but people will buy a system to play the games like Guitar Hero, Final Fantasy, Sly Cooper, God of War, Dragon Quest, MLB, and any other of Sony's game series.  

Nintendo keeps doing pretty damn well on lesser systems because of their fun game library.  Sony is building that up as well.  Microsoft has Halo and a bunch of Halo clones.  Oh boy.  

And, as you didn't seem to read in other posts Hetz, I do love the 360.  I think its an amazing system, a perfectly designed controller, incredible online integration, the arcade is incredible, etc.  I'm critical because I want Microsoft to succeed and I think they are making some mistakes.  The 360 hardware is definitely not a mistake.  The PS3 hardware may be a mistake though, but Sony still has the software.
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2006, 02:38:09 PM »

You know Scott I understand what you are saying, but it seems to me that most of those games from different genres come from the 3rd party support.  While I understand that you want MS to increase thier marketshare, but unless Dev Houses start producing the  God of War, Guitar Hero and the like for the 360 then what can MS do.   I guess they could go out and buy the Dev Houses like they did with Bungie, but honestly this will only work so much.

Honestly, I think MS is going to come out on top this generation in the NA and EU market.  While getting Japan would be nice Sony is too well entrenched into that market.  


Btw, anyone notice that the 599.00 version of the PS3 has no determined price in Japan.  It's being left open to the sellers to set the price.  Does that seem wacky to anyone else?
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2006, 02:58:18 PM »

Quote
You know Scott I understand what you are saying, but it seems to me that most of those games from different genres come from the 3rd party support.

Aren't a lot of the PS2 exclusives really Sony houses, or 2nd party Sony houses (where Sony has invested in them?)

I think Microsoft could invest more in some developers, perhaps buy a couple exclusives, or even develop more in house.  Microsoft needs to attack the problem more, since they are the new kid on the block.

I was hoping to see a lot more about the Arcade too.  I think Microsoft could really dominate in this area, and should.  It was enouraging what Live stuff they showed though.
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2006, 03:44:18 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote
You know Scott I understand what you are saying, but it seems to me that most of those games from different genres come from the 3rd party support.

Aren't a lot of the PS2 exclusives really Sony houses, or 2nd party Sony houses (where Sony has invested in them?)

I think Microsoft could invest more in some developers, perhaps buy a couple exclusives, or even develop more in house.  Microsoft needs to attack the problem more, since they are the new kid on the block.

I was hoping to see a lot more about the Arcade too.  I think Microsoft could really dominate in this area, and should.  It was enouraging what Live stuff they showed though.


Wait - why does Xbox 360 need to attack this "problem" again? The Xbox 360 will have 160 seperate titles by the time PS3 launches. I fail to see the problem with diversity here... if anything Sony needs to get on the ball as Xbox 360 has a huge portfolio of games whereas Nintendo and Sony are showing off a select few.

What exactly is Sony showing that is so impressive?

- GT4? What about Forza? Moto GP 2? PGR3? Burnout Revenge?
- MGS4? What about Splinter Cell Double Agent?
- Killzone? What about Halo 3 and Gears of War?
- Madden? It's coming out on the Xbox 360 months before the PS3.
- GTA4? Launching with the Xbox 360 version as well as PS3, and has exclusive Xbox Live features.
- Final Fantasy? What about Oblivion and Fable 2?

I'm sorry, but this so-called shortage of quality titles isn't one of Microsoft problems - that's their strength right now. They've got the biggest portfolio of games right now - and will still have the largest selection of next generation games by 2007, and by my guess it'll still be a huge margin.
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2006, 04:08:05 PM »

Quote from: "Mattc0m"
... if anything Sony needs to get on the ball as Xbox 360 has a huge portfolio of games whereas Nintendo and Sony are showing off a select few.

Well to be fair the 360 is already out while the PS3 and Wii don't come out until this fall.  I don't remember E3 2005 clearly enough but I'd be surprised if Microsoft was showing many more games for the 360 than Sony and Nintendo are showing right now for their unreleased consoles.
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« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2006, 04:12:45 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "Mattc0m"
... if anything Sony needs to get on the ball as Xbox 360 has a huge portfolio of games whereas Nintendo and Sony are showing off a select few.

Well to be fair the 360 is already out while the PS3 and Wii don't come out until this fall.  I don't remember E3 2005 clearly enough but I'd be surprised if Microsoft was showing many more games for the 360 than Sony and Nintendo are showing right now for their unreleased consoles.

But it's also not fair to be ONLY comparing Microsoft's second wave of titles to a few launch titles that Sony and Nintendo are providing. What I'm saying in this extra year they've got quite a portfolio of titles - all next-gen, and quite a few system sellers already. Microsoft having a problem with the size and diversity of their games is just silly... they're coming up on 160 titles while PS3 and Wii are still just trying to launch their consoles.
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2006, 04:23:46 PM »

Quote from: "Mattc0m"
Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "Mattc0m"
... if anything Sony needs to get on the ball as Xbox 360 has a huge portfolio of games whereas Nintendo and Sony are showing off a select few.

Well to be fair the 360 is already out while the PS3 and Wii don't come out until this fall.  I don't remember E3 2005 clearly enough but I'd be surprised if Microsoft was showing many more games for the 360 than Sony and Nintendo are showing right now for their unreleased consoles.

But it's also not fair to be ONLY comparing Microsoft's second wave of titles to a few launch titles that Sony and Nintendo are providing. What I'm saying in this extra year they've got quite a portfolio of titles - all next-gen, and quite a few system sellers already. Microsoft having a problem with the size and diversity of their games is just silly... they're coming up on 160 titles while PS3 and Wii are still just trying to launch their consoles.

No problem.  We just can't compare where Microsoft is now with where Sony and Nintendo are now.  In a year Sony or Nintendo might have just as many quality titles out or coming out as Microsoft does now.

No quibble with the 360 having bunches of quality titles.  I'll be buying one just for Bioshock.
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« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2006, 04:36:14 PM »

Quote
But it's also not fair to be ONLY comparing Microsoft's second wave of titles to a few launch titles that Sony and Nintendo are providing.

My point is that most of the 360 titles aren't exclusive, and will most likely show up on the PS3.  Maybe Gears of War will be good, but its as much hype now as MGS or Final Fantasy XIII.

How many kid games on the 360, platformers, strategy games, rpgs, strategy rpgs, adventure, flight, etc.?

Fine, the 360 has more games, but its been out for a year longer.  Its naive to think that Sony won't eventually put out a lot of games too, and so far, Sony has spread the titles around better.

A lot of the 2nd generation 360 games will get ported to the PS3 from the start, so you won't have as many half-assed PS3 launch titles as the 360 (the EA games for example, like Madden).

The 360 has some great titles, I've played most of them and loved them.  I just want to see more diversity so I don't have to buy a PS3 down the road because I want a platformer for me or my kids, or something like Disgaea or Ace Combat, etc.

Some of what Microsoft showed was pretty cool.  Forza 2 looks incredible for example, but its stuff already in the Microsoft lineup.
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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2006, 04:45:50 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
No problem.  We just can't compare where Microsoft is now with where Sony and Nintendo are now.  In a year Sony or Nintendo might have just as many quality titles out or coming out as Microsoft does now.


Yes we can; it's the same song/dance with PS2 vs XBOX except now the roles are reversed and the one first to market doesn't have a huge hardware disadvantage.
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« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2006, 05:04:26 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
How many kid games on the 360, platformers, strategy games, rpgs, strategy rpgs, adventure, flight, etc.?

Fine, the 360 has more games, but its been out for a year longer.  Its naive to think that Sony won't eventually put out a lot of games too, and so far, Sony has spread the titles around better.

A lot of the 2nd generation 360 games will get ported to the PS3 from the start, so you won't have as many half-assed PS3 launch titles as the 360 (the EA games for example, like Madden).


The thing is, they're ports of first-gen games on a non-native platform with it's own programming challenges (any new architecture has this; we'll ignore trying to write for 6 separate cores which handle special tasks exclusively). I don't know that we're going to see people clamoring to play CoD2 on PS3 when it's a year old and have to pay a $600 admission ticket.

EA will supply ammo for all sides of the console wars as long as their payload makes coin. They will offer exclusives to both sides; it's a no-brainer.

Scott, I'm sure you were one of the people I recall jumping up and down over the killzone movie last year (hell, it took my breath away even though I knew it was just CGI spin); I'm just bringing this up to ground the idea that the 360 lovers are the exclusive clientel dining at the Hype Buffet.

As to the genres you listed, how many do you expect to see on the PS3 at the same time? It doesn't matter that they could have 200 games by end of 2007; they're going up against a very powerful, very popular competitor with a lower price point in their second holiday season with some must-have titles over a first-gen volley from Sony. Plain and simple, you're going to be looking at "buy potential" vs "buy for right now" and the right-now always wins. Halo 1 was the first big step the Xbox made, and one of the reasons they had a "successful" launch in any market. Xbox2 had no flagship; they covered as many bases as possible with A titles such as DOA (fighting), Halo 1 & 2 upgrades (FPS), CoD2 (FPS), Condemned (Action / FPS / CSI mockup), PGR3 (racing), Amped 3 (snowboarding), full support of sports titles (most of which were B+ to A).

They have gaps to fill for sure. They need a solid platform game in the worst way. They need adventure games, quirky games, and definately RPGs (Oblivion is too open to appeal to the FFXII lovers, I think).

Sony has shown no backbone; they changed their controller. Who knows, that "boomarang" could have been the most comfortable feeling controller but they dropped it for a Dual Shock III controller (due to clamoring). What, they can't take a little whining from the industry? Look at Nintendo... they're going Wii no matter what.

At this point their console is meant to be the Blu-Ray trojan horse that brings DRM to the masses and all of their proprietary media standards. I bet they've even got Root-Kit software planned for PCs that connect to PS3's. I don't have a doubt in my mind that PS3 will be successful in the gaming community; wether they sit at the head table has yet to be seen.

I know that I'll get a Wii before a PS3; I can't justify the cost of a PS3 for slightly less than a 360 + a Wii.
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2006, 05:17:16 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
My point is that most of the 360 titles aren't exclusive, and will most likely show up on the PS3.  Maybe Gears of War will be good, but its as much hype now as MGS or Final Fantasy XIII.

i'd say what we're seeing of Gears of War is a lot more substantial than the hype surrounding MGS or FF-XIII considering that GoW is actually playable right now.  what we're seeing of GoW is actual gameplay...those other two games don't exist in anything other than trailers consisting mainly of cutscenes right now...
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« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2006, 05:21:51 PM »

I read "Saint's Row" up there and just had to comment:

Why are people looking forward to this game?  It looks like a cheap and lame rip-off of GTA.
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« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2006, 05:28:16 PM »

Quote
Scott, I'm sure you were one of the people I recall jumping up and down over the killzone movie last year (hell, it took my breath away even though I knew it was just CGI spin); I'm just bringing this up to ground the idea that the 360 lovers are the exclusive clientel dining at the Hype Buffet.

Nope, not me.  I only can play so many shooters a year, and the XBox/360 fills me up with those smile.  

Quote
The thing is, they're ports of first-gen games on a non-native platform with it's own programming challenges (any new architecture has this; we'll ignore trying to write for 6 separate cores which handle special tasks exclusively).

Yes, but a lot of the 360 launch games, say from EA, were limited on stuff like the franchise mode, and the modes that add depth, not the 'hard' programming options like the graphics/sound/physics.  I think, once EA gets the extra modes in place (and other devs), that is stuff that will port easily.

My point has been that I think Microsoft needs to diversify more then Gears of War and other shooters, so while there is an incredibly positive vibe about Microsoft, I don't see it.  I wanted more.

Until this week when I finally got MLB, I hadn't had my PS2 out of the cabinet in 2 years.  Since I got the Logitech wireless for the PS2 (since the 360 sold me on wireless controllers), I also picked up Ratchet:Deadlocked, MGS, and DQ VIII, to see what I had missed.  I do not want to spend $600 on a PS3, far from it.  I just want the 360 to cover all the basis, so when I do want to play an RPG, or platformer, rare as that is, I want the 360 to have one.  

I don't want to look at the 20 or so AA titles the 360 will have next year, and see 19 shooters and 1 RPG to choose from.  I'd rather see 5 shooters, a flight game, 3 platformers, 3 rpgs, etc.

Quote
I read "Saint's Row" up there and just had to comment:

Why are people looking forward to this game? It looks like a cheap and lame rip-off of GTA.

I just can't see this game being good either.  And as Volition complained, I'm sure it'll be the lack of the standard hard drives fault  :roll:

Quote
Sony has shown no backbone; they changed their controller. Who knows, that "boomarang" could have been the most comfortable feeling controller but they dropped it for a Dual Shock III controller (due to clamoring). What, they can't take a little whining from the industry? Look at Nintendo... they're going Wii no matter what.

Yes, I agree.  Sony's controller design, and half assed Live copy is pretty bad.  Its another reason why Microsoft disappointed me some, I was hoping for more of a killshot, then leaving open more areas that Sony can exploit.

Gears of War may rock, I'm not sure, I just can't get as excited for it because I'm a little burnt out on XBox/PC/360 shooters right now.
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XBox Live: ScottW
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