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Author Topic: Chaos Theory Questions/Issues(Levels 1-5 spoilers possible)  (Read 934 times)
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Calvin
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« on: April 11, 2005, 09:32:10 PM »

Ok, so I have an issue with SC3. So far, I am absolutely in love with it. Actually, I am going to reinstall the last two as well in a bit and see how they compare, because I am having so much fun with SC3. I am on mission..um 5 now I think, and the game and story keep getting better. Here is my issue.

On mission 4, Penthouse, I went through it the "spy" way. Didn't kill any one (you were told early on not to kill the National Guard). Did it all properly, never set off an alarm, got all the optional objectives completed. Never got detected other than two bodies (which I dont remember happening since everyone was incapacitated, but oh well). I got 95%, my highest score so far. Ok, that is cool and exciting and I was really stoked I did so well and was actually able to complete the mission in the spy manner.

However. They designed this game so that it was more accessible to the non-hardcore stealth crowd. I am pretty sure they said this, and even if they didn't, it is more than obvious. I thank them for that, because they have made it one of the best PC games of the year so far. The frustrating thing for me is that they have provided you with ample ways to kill. You now have a knife that is easy and satisfying to use. You have multiple methods of killing in your arsenal, including freaking frag grenades. You can break a captured enemies back at the end of interrogation. Rage Likes This. This is good. I always wanted Sam to be a ruthless assassin/spy, not just a namby pamby wimpy, spy that can not actually hurt anyone.

So, I actually played the second mission on the boat like this-as an assassin. After all, these scum helped murder a friend of mine, so its time for them and their discpicable leader to pay. I killed them. All of them. Some with my pistol, some with me SC-20, most with my knife, quietly. They never knew I was there. When they walked together in patrols, I snuck up behind one, slit his throat, moved to the side, and when his partner turned around buried the knife in his side. It was ruthless, cold, and quiet. I ended the mission short one bonus objective, no alarms raised, all other objectives complete, no deteections, and 2 bodies found, but 30 dead enemies. The score=15%.

This makes no frigging sense at all. It is exactly equivalent in terms of gameplay mechanics to use the knife to kill or to just punch the guy out (well, I guess if they are just knocked out they can be revived?), but still, for all intents and purposes it is the same-and THEY GIVE YOU THE OPTION. Nowhere does it say, hey you will be penalized in score for killing rather than incapacitating-and that frustrates me.I want to get high scores and enjoy the game, but I also want to sort of play it the assassin route since they seem to want to let you do that in some missions.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2005, 12:42:25 AM »

It is a bit bizarre and the scoring seems to be based on an idea that killing is harder than incapacitating but, like you said, that's not really the case.  The bright side is that your rating doesn't impact anything so I don't think you're missing out on anything but piece of mind.

What I really wish the game had was custom-difficulty levels.  I'd like to be able to specifiy a "non-lethal" option, "non-detection", etc.  You can try to do this yourself with some self-discipline but, alas, I just don't have the will-power.  

Also, its high time that the game offered one mission where not only can you not kill anyone or be detected but you can't knock anyone out.  I think that would be very cool and very challenging.  

My *only* knock on Chaos Theory is that its too easy (although the difficulty does ramp up a bit in the final missions).
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Calvin
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2005, 01:57:13 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
It is a bit bizarre and the scoring seems to be based on an idea that killing is harder than incapacitating but, like you said, that's not really the case.  The bright side is that your rating doesn't impact anything so I don't think you're missing out on anything but piece of mind.

What I really wish the game had was custom-difficulty levels.  I'd like to be able to specifiy a "non-lethal" option, "non-detection", etc.  You can try to do this yourself with some self-discipline but, alas, I just don't have the will-power.  

Also, its high time that the game offered one mission where not only can you not kill anyone or be detected but you can't knock anyone out.  I think that would be very cool and very challenging.  

My *only* knock on Chaos Theory is that its too easy (although the difficulty does ramp up a bit in the final missions).


That would be cool-I would like to force myself to play one or two misiosn that way, although most missions have at least one mission-critical objective with a guard standing next to it so it would be close to impossible. I agree the game is a tad easy, but I love this game and I really struggled and got frustrated with the difficulty in the first two.

I have also decided its back to my assassins ways-if the score doesnt really impact anything, I will just try to get all the optional objectives and kill lots of bad guys and presume my score is 100!! smile
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2005, 02:18:28 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"


I have also decided its back to my assassins ways-if the score doesnt really impact anything, I will just try to get all the optional objectives and kill lots of bad guys and presume my score is 100!! smile


The only effect I know of is that if you fail to complete a secondary objective in one mission it will become a primary objective in a later mission.  And you can still complete the secondary objectives and kill the person later if need be.

Its funny, before I played Chaos Theory I went back and replayed both the original and Pandora Tomorrow on the PC and I found them way too easy.  Still jonesing for some SC action after beating CT, I actually replayed the original and PT on the Xbox because I found the increasd difficulty offered by checkpoint saves vice save anywhere more satisfying.  Never thought I would say that.
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Calvin
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2005, 02:43:23 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Quote from: "Rage"


I have also decided its back to my assassins ways-if the score doesnt really impact anything, I will just try to get all the optional objectives and kill lots of bad guys and presume my score is 100!! smile


The only effect I know of is that if you fail to complete a secondary objective in one mission it will become a primary objective in a later mission.  And you can still complete the secondary objectives and kill the person later if need be.

Its funny, before I played Chaos Theory I went back and replayed both the original and Pandora Tomorrow on the PC and I found them way too easy.  Still jonesing for some SC action after beating CT, I actually replayed the original and PT on the Xbox because I found the increasd difficulty offered by checkpoint saves vice save anywhere more satisfying.  Never thought I would say that.


Wow you are wierd!! smile I will be going back to play the first two after this, but I am only playing 1-2 missions a night so it will be another week or so I think before I get to even think about doing that. The thing that I remember that frustrated me so much about the other games, and please correct me if I am wrong-alarms went off SOO much easier, and more than a couple ended the mission. Sometimes detection alone ended a mission if I recall, and thats just stupid, and finally, was it a lot harder to take down enemies non-lethally or without making noise or did I just suck?

Kevin do you want to try coop sometime?
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2005, 02:47:01 AM »

Yeah, Chaos Theory is leagues ahead of the first two in overall fairness to the player.  Pandora Tomorrow was particularly notorious for having some missions where it was 3 alarms (or sometimes even 1) and game over.  The first game had some of those too but PT gets hit much harder for it.  Its definitely easier to play the Xbox versions once you already have a general idea of the level and enemy layout.

I' should be up for some co-op this weekend.  I think we're the only two around here with the PC version.
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disarm
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2005, 04:31:23 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
That would be cool-I would like to force myself to play one or two misiosn that way, although most missions have at least one mission-critical objective with a guard standing next to it so it would be close to impossible.

i did my best to play through the whole game without killing anyone...hadn't  used a lethal attack on anyone until the Teahouse mission.  there's a part at the end of that one where i just wasn't equipped to succeed non-lethally and had to shoot two guys.  you're faced a group of guys that you pretty much have to disable in some way, and i didn't have enough sticky shockers or airfoil rounds for everyone (using Redding's loadout).  if i go back equipped for stealth, i'll be able to finish without killing anyone Cool
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Calvin
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2005, 04:36:34 AM »

Quote from: "disarm"
Quote from: "Rage"
That would be cool-I would like to force myself to play one or two misiosn that way, although most missions have at least one mission-critical objective with a guard standing next to it so it would be close to impossible.

i did my best to play through the whole game without killing anyone...hadn't  used a lethal attack on anyone until the Teahouse mission.  there's a part at the end of that one where i just wasn't equipped to succeed non-lethally and had to shoot two guys.  you're faced a group of guys that you pretty much have to disable in some way, and i didn't have enough sticky shockers or airfoil rounds for everyone (using Redding's loadout).  if i go back equipped for stealth, i'll be able to finish without killing anyone Cool


Well, maybe on a second run through I will do that. I just for some sick reason get a much greater sense of accomplishment out of killing those sunuvabitch terrorits. It just seems like....what Sam would do.
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2005, 05:54:24 AM »

Actually, at the end of teahouse you can use your instant knock out attacks.  Just crouch run up to them as mid pace and keep jamming on the right mouse button.  As soon as you're within range you'll either hit them in the gut, or sock them in the face, knocking them out.  Because you're crouch running, they'll hear the noise, but you're already on top of them by the time they turn around.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2005, 06:23:50 AM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Actually, at the end of teahouse you can use your instant knock out attacks.  Just crouch run up to them as mid pace and keep jamming on the right mouse button.  As soon as you're within range you'll either hit them in the gut, or sock them in the face, knocking them out.  Because you're crouch running, they'll hear the noise, but you're already on top of them by the time they turn around.


I went with the lethal attacks there, but mainly because it felt "appropriate" (and pretty damn cool- three slit throats in about 1.5 seconds).  I tend to Role Play Splinter Cell a bit- if I interrogate someone and they give me some good info then I won't kill them.  If the situation warrants lethal force (as many of the final missions do) then I use it.
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