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Author Topic: Champions: Return to Arms thoughts?  (Read 1859 times)
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Destructor
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« on: February 10, 2005, 12:25:48 AM »

Anybody playing this title? It's EXTREMELY MOTS compared to the original game (down to the exact same type of monsters and stages), but still fun.

Thoughts? Anybody playing online?
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Cleric7
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2005, 01:04:26 AM »

I enjoyed the first 2 hours until I ran into the invincible Robot Boss!!

WTF were they thinking???????????

Will be trading it in for credit tomorrow...

Thanks for playtesting it, Sony  :roll:
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2005, 01:06:43 AM »

Quote from: "Cleric7"
I enjoyed the first 2 hours until I ran into the invincible Robot Boss!!

WTF were they thinking???????????

Will be trading it in for credit tomorrow...

Thanks for playtesting it, Sony  :roll:
Uh.  Care to be more specific?
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2005, 05:16:11 AM »

I havent played it but was just curious as to how many invincible robot monster bosses there are within the first 2 hours that one needs to specify which?
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2005, 06:43:59 AM »

Quote from: "Doopri1"
I havent played it but was just curious as to how many invincible robot monster bosses there are within the first 2 hours that one needs to specify which?
Well I mean, is it a bug, is it just immune to a bunch of damage, is there a trick to it, is it an optional fight, etc.  Like, the details of the encounter.
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2005, 01:34:59 PM »

It's not optional, at least if you choose the dark side path. I'm guessing there's a trick to it, or perhaps that it's difficulty (and the early bosses' difficulty too!) is scaled for players importing better developed characters from the first game (a nice option, btw!), or playing in a group online.

He's a giant robot that appears in the middle of a roughly circular arena (you can't get out) He fires streams of needle lasers at you. Three or four hits and you're toast! And that can happen in a couple of seconds. Your initial move pretty much has to be to run away from it to the edge of the arena, and then run around the edge either clockwise or counterclockwise, because he pursues you fairly quickly. In addition he will send out little exploding monsters that will chase after you (these are not too difficult to dispatch although there appears to be a never-ending stream of them) From the edge of the arena I would pause in my flight to turn and send a poison bolt in the big guy's general direction ( I couldn't see his exact position onscreen but could usually guess from the direction of the needle lasers. I could only do this for a second or two before those lasers homed in and I had to get back on my horse.

After about twenty minutes on the mad merry-go-round, I had whittled him down to 2/3 of his health (while using up 15 health potions!)

I then tried gradually circling towards him, to see if I could use his slower turning speed against him, and get directly behind him. Well, at this point you discover that he has other short range melee moves that make that extremely difficult. In addition, the little exploding monsters tend to guard against this very tactic -- they stick close to him and I couldn't outrun them here as I could on the perimeter of the arena. It only took a couple of swipes from my mace to kill one of them, but that second or two always cost me my life from the big guy, whose turn speed is apparently NOT his weakness frown

I welcome other people's experiences on this guy. Perhaps I'm missing some obvious trick. I played 50 hours of Champions of Norrath so I'm not new to the genre -- and I can't remember having anything so frustrating in the course of that game. I read on another forum similar problems with this guy -- people dying 40 times before finally killing him, and such...
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Cleric7
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2005, 02:58:49 PM »

For those considering buying the game, you should also be aware of some of the bugs/glitches/issues being discussed on GameFaqs. Here are some of them:

1) Any items that have +Health or +Mana on them do not, in fact, give that bonus (this is true for both single-player and multi-player)
2) There is a bug where a wizard can enchant your weapon but you permanently lose anything you already had on it. As one player describes it: "if you have a awesome sword that does +25 cold damage and a wizard casts the "cold weapons" spell, then when the "cold weapons" spell wears off, your original +25 cold damage will ALSO be lost. This is serious, as it will cause you alot of grief when the weapons that took you 3 months to find is rendered useless by a wizards spell." Note: this may be more of an issue in online play -- not sure.

3) NPC can disappear when you need them to complete a quest
4) Some people are reporting save bugs
5) Game freezing up periodically. (I had this happen once to me, although it unfroze after about 10 seconds)
6) Problems loading some of the Medallion rounds
7) Some people are reporting a "wobbly screen glitch"
8 Bug in the Betting Area -- unable to pick up the bloodstone
9) Extreme difficulty of the early bosses. Here's one guy's comments on the very first set of bosses (NB. I had a hell of a time with this as well. Note: this is before the robot boss)
"I usually consider myslef a pretty good game player. But this game is kicking the hell out of me. I havn't even beat the first mission yet and I have died countless times. I got to an arena where there are these four Knights of something and a spawned skeleton mob. I can't even kill a single one of those guys, not to mention all of them! What should I do?"
10) There is a glitch in the Water Plane where you must be sure to place the East stone last or it won't work and you'll have to replay the entire level.
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Destructor
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2005, 03:08:15 PM »

This game is much harder than the first, I'll give you that. Either that or the Vah Shir Berzerker sucks as far as armor goes. In refrence, my first two playthroughs on the original was with the Wizard and Ranger.

As far as that 'invinicible' robot boss goes, you get into melee. He can do a TON more damage at range than he can in melee. It's not even funny.

You get into melee, block his strikes, then attack/spell. Repeat ad nausea until you've won.

Repeat this trick for most of the bosses in the game.
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Cleric7
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2005, 03:15:40 PM »

Destructor, thanks for the tip!!  smile
I think my magic lizard dude would have a great deal of difficulty even getting to melee range without getting fried. I may give that a try tonight (if I don't trade the darn thing in first -- getting pretty leery with all these early reports of problems)
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2005, 03:56:33 PM »

Wow, i was considering maybe grabbing this one, as I havent grabbed a console game in some time.  But with the complaints I dont think I am interested anymore.  I love the EQ world, but I think this would just leave a bad taste in my mouth.
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2005, 04:35:11 PM »

Same here.  I was considering this one for some mindless hack-n-slash, but I'm definately going to skip it.
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2005, 06:57:45 PM »

I thought about it too, but when I heard it was MOTS without significantly interesting changes / new character options, I decided it'd be better to find my Action/RPG fix elsewhere.
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2005, 07:06:39 PM »

Quote from: "Cleric7"
For those considering buying the game, you should also be aware of some of the bugs/glitches/issues being discussed on GameFaqs. Here are some of them:

Hey - have a link to that post offhand? I need to get this information for my review. biggrin
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2005, 07:42:37 PM »

i'm just starting to read them, so i'm not sure if this is where the comments are located, but there is a lot of back-and-forth on the gamefaqs boards.  lots of bugs mentioned, some folks saying they have no problem, difficulty level discussed, etc:

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=920597

how much do you want to bet that some of the freezing and crashing problems are due to the individual player's PS2?  good old Sony.  i use Champions of Norrath as one of my PS2 "tester" games - if it will play that and Contra S.S., it'll play anything.
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2005, 07:59:34 PM »

Destructor, there was no single link. The GameFaqs board that Mytocles linked had most of it, but there were some comments from OO and elsewhere too.

Well, I went back, with your advice, and tried the block/melee idea -- with disastrous results!! At least the first couple of times. It is just so damn difficult to close to melee range with the mechanical boss -- specifically because you can't move while blocking, and the needle lasers will kill you extremely quickly (On one of my attempts, from the end of the cutscene it took him under 2 seconds to kill me -- I literally just stared at my screen and started laughing. It was so insane...)

But then I tried blocking his lasers from a bit of a distance (still close enough to see him on screen) and in the nanosecond between laser streams, I would fire off a single poison bolt. It was tricky timing and I needed a number of healing potions, but in time I finally killed the son of gun.

So, you were right Destructor, blocking was the key!

I then went on to plow through the first section of the water plane with no trouble -- boy, did it seem familiar though! When I came to the first boss (mini-boss?), he killed me cheaply and absurdly quickly several times in a row (yes, even with blocking, and dancing and blah, blah, blah!!)

I guess I just suck, but I am through with the game. I'm sure I could figure out the "trick" to this boss too, given time, but more than that I am simply not enjoying the game very much. As you have pointed out, it really is MOTS, and I guess I am just a little played out on Snowblind's take on the genre. The potential is there for so much more. Don't get me wrong, someone new to the genre could get a ton of enjoyment out of this game (as long as the early bosses don't deter them), but I just wish they had taken a few more chances and done a few more new things...
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2005, 04:02:35 PM »

Early on the game is extremely difficult. It's almost as if the devs wanted you to import your character into the game.

Even later on, the game is hard. Melee mobs do a TON of damage to my Berserker (even with fully upgraded armor), and a group of them can cut me down in seconds.

Of course, I can cut them down in the same amount of time, but...

This game is also a total rehash of the original. Underwater level? Check. Annoying lava level filled with ranged attackers? Check. Bastard spiders that love spitting webs? Check. Everyone's 'favorite' Kelethin? Check.

It's like the devs took the original, tossed it into a blender, and out came this game.
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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2005, 10:06:45 PM »

FWIW I am actually digging this game alot. Yes alot of it is familiar and some of it is repetitive and tough, but for pure hack and slash, this has all I need. So far game looks great and havent had 1 bug that I have noticed yet. I am on the Plane of Torment so I think I am pretty far into the game.
As far as the Medallion challenges, I skipped them early on but went back later after leveling up and so far they have been no problem. So far it's good enough to keep me coming back for more.
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