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Author Topic: Car porn (Forza 2)  (Read 27082 times)
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gellar
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« Reply #440 on: June 07, 2007, 05:50:42 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 07, 2007, 05:49:55 PM

My only issue with the controller at the moment is that (and I bet I can fix this) I feel like I have to snap the stick back and forth to get the exact movements I want. It just isn't sensitive enough!
Also, I've never raced with a wheel, so I want to see what it's like.

I predict you still will suck.

gellar
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #441 on: June 07, 2007, 05:53:34 PM »

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2007, 05:50:42 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 07, 2007, 05:49:55 PM

My only issue with the controller at the moment is that (and I bet I can fix this) I feel like I have to snap the stick back and forth to get the exact movements I want. It just isn't sensitive enough!
Also, I've never raced with a wheel, so I want to see what it's like.

I predict you still will suck.

gellar
No need to predict, sir! I can assure it.
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« Reply #442 on: June 07, 2007, 06:13:18 PM »

Well Pete!  It's the end of the world!

I ordered the Microsoft Wireless Wheel!  I could not pass it up for about $100.  I guess I'll be joining in sometime next week!

Talk about oil & water:  Starshifter & Multiplayer Racing Sim! 

What in the world did I just get myself into?  eek
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #443 on: June 07, 2007, 06:42:26 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 07, 2007, 05:49:55 PM

My only issue with the controller at the moment is that (and I bet I can fix this) I feel like I have to snap the stick back and forth to get the exact movements I want. It just isn't sensitive enough!
Also, I've never raced with a wheel, so I want to see what it's like.

It's like making love to a woman.  Instead of a machine.

I imagine.
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« Reply #444 on: June 07, 2007, 08:40:54 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on June 07, 2007, 06:42:26 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 07, 2007, 05:49:55 PM

My only issue with the controller at the moment is that (and I bet I can fix this) I feel like I have to snap the stick back and forth to get the exact movements I want. It just isn't sensitive enough!
Also, I've never raced with a wheel, so I want to see what it's like.

It's like making love to a woman.  Instead of a machine.

I imagine.
Would you really know either way though Ike? Honestly?
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kathode
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« Reply #445 on: June 07, 2007, 08:52:21 PM »

I don't think the controller is bad at all, but the problem with the controller is that it makes smooth acceleration and braking a near impossibility.  The throw on the triggers just isn't far enough and the resistance isn't strong enough.  Even trying as hard as I can to do smooth movements, usually the best I can manage is to "check" my trigger pulls about halfway down.  I don't have any hands on time with the wheel and pedals but I can only imagine it being much easier.  I'd love to get a wheel but at $100+ when I'm trying to save, I'm forced to admit that it's a want much more than a need.
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Chaz
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« Reply #446 on: June 07, 2007, 09:04:50 PM »

I think the bigger advantage of the wheel is being able to make smaller steering corrections, and thus maintain a straighter line, and smoother turns.  Mostly that would help on the wide, sweeping turns.  Also, I would think the force feedback might help a bit with feeling when the wheels are about to lose traction, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.
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wonderpug
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« Reply #447 on: June 07, 2007, 09:11:28 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on June 07, 2007, 09:04:50 PM

I think the bigger advantage of the wheel is being able to make smaller steering corrections, and thus maintain a straighter line, and smoother turns.  Mostly that would help on the wide, sweeping turns.  Also, I would think the force feedback might help a bit with feeling when the wheels are about to lose traction, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

One trick that some people use to gain extra precision on the analog stick is to keep it pushed along the top edge of its range of movement.  The game will only read the x-axis of your position, of course, but by sliding it along the upper edge you're determining your steering position with the full force of your thumb instead of trying to balance at a specific point against the stick's spring.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #448 on: June 07, 2007, 09:13:23 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 07, 2007, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Chaz on June 07, 2007, 09:04:50 PM

I think the bigger advantage of the wheel is being able to make smaller steering corrections, and thus maintain a straighter line, and smoother turns.  Mostly that would help on the wide, sweeping turns.  Also, I would think the force feedback might help a bit with feeling when the wheels are about to lose traction, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

One trick that some people use to gain extra precision on the analog stick is to keep it pushed along the top edge of its range of movement.  The game will only read the x-axis of your position, of course, but by sliding it along the upper edge you're determining your steering position with the full force of your thumb instead of trying to balance at a specific point against the stick's spring.
Nice idea. I'll have to try that.
The other advantage of the wheel would be the shifting paddles. I think I'd use a manual transmission if I had those.
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Geezer
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« Reply #449 on: June 07, 2007, 09:19:51 PM »

Quote from: kathode on June 07, 2007, 08:52:21 PM

I don't think the controller is bad at all, but the problem with the controller is that it makes smooth acceleration and braking a near impossibility.  The throw on the triggers just isn't far enough and the resistance isn't strong enough.  Even trying as hard as I can to do smooth movements, usually the best I can manage is to "check" my trigger pulls about halfway down.  I don't have any hands on time with the wheel and pedals but I can only imagine it being much easier.  I'd love to get a wheel but at $100+ when I'm trying to save, I'm forced to admit that it's a want much more than a need.

Something I really LIKE about the triggers is the fact that you can "pulse" them so much quicker than you can the foot pedals.

There's a technique you can use in real life for a car that's on the edge of adhesion where you can rapidly "pump" the gas pedal to increase traction to the front and back and control a pervasive understeer situation and the right trigger approximates this quite well in terms of both feel and in terms of results.  You can use this same technique on the left trigger (I would imagine) to simulate an abs situation if youare dead set on turning off abs in the game.

I'm not explaining it well,but there's a telemetry video of Alex Zanardi doing this in a real car and it's quite amazing to see how quick he is ona nd off the pedals.
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Harkonis
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« Reply #450 on: June 07, 2007, 10:54:44 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on June 07, 2007, 05:45:00 PM

Me too Zinfan!! And agree with gellar-the controller handles like a dream.

I can tell you're using the controller slywink  Especially on the Speedway.  Ask Ike to send you a picture of his wheel if you don't believe me.
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gellar
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« Reply #451 on: June 07, 2007, 10:55:43 PM »

Yeah the speedway is the one part where I'd kinda want a controller... it's hard to hold the low line.  Still, I hate the speedways anyway, so it doesn't really appeal to me that much.

gellar
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Zinfan
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« Reply #452 on: June 08, 2007, 12:40:20 AM »

back to the car porn,

This is all I have from the Order of the Stick so far, I'm getting faster at making them, Thog only took 4 hours  icon_biggrin.  Haley needs another arm but her current one is too thick and the fingers are too big as well.  I'd like to take the roundness out of her middle as well but I like her head and hair.



Oh and Belkar is still not dual wielding! 
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wonderpug
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hmm...


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« Reply #453 on: June 08, 2007, 03:20:52 AM »

For this victory, I'd like to thank: the wall, for it's timely destruction of the mercedes' engine allowing for a come from behind 2nd place victory. smile  The closeness doesn't show too well in the pic, but we're going at 150-160mph and that's less than .2 seconds between us.




And Hark, this is the closest moment I could find in the first lap of the Fairlady race that resembles the side by side drifting you said you saw:

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disarm
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« Reply #454 on: June 08, 2007, 04:17:17 AM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 08, 2007, 03:20:52 AM

For this victory, I'd like to thank: the wall, for it's timely destruction of the mercedes' engine allowing for a come from behind 2nd place victory. smile  The closeness doesn't show too well in the pic, but we're going at 150-160mph and that's less than .2 seconds between us.

you have no idea how frustrated i am by that ending...get squeaked out of 2nd because of a stupid mistake when i was actually in the lead over Loomi and his muscle monster at one point... icon_evil

fyi...that's me in the background of the drifting pic as well...had a great view of the action icon_cool

great racing tonight everyone!
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SuperHiro
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« Reply #455 on: June 08, 2007, 08:29:22 AM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 07, 2007, 05:53:34 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2007, 05:50:42 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 07, 2007, 05:49:55 PM

My only issue with the controller at the moment is that (and I bet I can fix this) I feel like I have to snap the stick back and forth to get the exact movements I want. It just isn't sensitive enough!
Also, I've never raced with a wheel, so I want to see what it's like.

I predict you still will suck.

gellar
No need to predict, sir! I can assure it.

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« Reply #456 on: June 08, 2007, 09:59:05 AM »

I'm cross posting this to all the relevant forums...

We've had some talk about all doing the same cars/class as each other and I'd like to start the coordination on it.


To get the ball rolling I'll suggest two cars for everyone to have ready for Fri-Sun.



First off I'll suggest a car that everyone should already have and if not they should get one anyway and try it out, a Lotus Elan tuned for D400.
Second would be a car I doubt anyone, myself included has even purchased yet, a PT Cruiser tuned for C550.
 This will give us two cars to mess around with and be on semi-even ground.  They are both easily available and low cost.



So to recap, get these two cars ready:



1972 Lotus Elan Sprint D400

2004 Chrysler PT Cruiser GT C550
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #457 on: June 08, 2007, 10:06:36 AM »

i just bought this today....have yet to even put it in the 360

i got the limited collectors edition..this is what it says on the back

it has 156 page book packed with car manufacturers history and specs,also making of etc(its a nice glossy book,but will prolly have absolutely no value for me)

and you also get 3 free unique playable cars from xbox live(scratch off code card inside case,like the Lost Planet extra map)
2003 Ferrari challenge stradale
2006 saleen 281 E
2006 Subabru Impreza S204


whether it was worth the extra 10 i dont know,but i had 67 credit at GAME store anyway icon_biggrin
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« Reply #458 on: June 08, 2007, 11:59:17 AM »

I should be back in tonight - Someone send me an invite so I can crash my way into last place with you guys again!!
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« Reply #459 on: June 08, 2007, 12:22:39 PM »

Got your invite last night, but I wasn't actually in a position to join.  The 360 was only on because I was just finishing watching an episode of Planet Earth on the HD player.  I'm fully planning on being online tonight (as long as I can convince the GF that this is a good idea).  I don't know about getting the two cars for the car-specific races ready for tonight though.  I know I don't have either, and I think I'm pretty short of cash after souping up my Talon.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #460 on: June 08, 2007, 02:08:26 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on June 08, 2007, 09:59:05 AM

I'm cross posting this to all the relevant forums...

We've had some talk about all doing the same cars/class as each other and I'd like to start the coordination on it.


To get the ball rolling I'll suggest two cars for everyone to have ready for Fri-Sun.



First off I'll suggest a car that everyone should already have and if not they should get one anyway and try it out, a Lotus Elan tuned for D400.
Second would be a car I doubt anyone, myself included has even purchased yet, a PT Cruiser tuned for C550.
 This will give us two cars to mess around with and be on semi-even ground.  They are both easily available and low cost.



So to recap, get these two cars ready:



1972 Lotus Elan Sprint D400

2004 Chrysler PT Cruiser GT C550

Isn't the point of everybody having the same car that everybody has the same car? These are all available as stock, I'd say stick with that.
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #461 on: June 08, 2007, 02:31:31 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on June 08, 2007, 09:59:05 AM

I'm cross posting this to all the relevant forums...

We've had some talk about all doing the same cars/class as each other and I'd like to start the coordination on it.


To get the ball rolling I'll suggest two cars for everyone to have ready for Fri-Sun.



First off I'll suggest a car that everyone should already have and if not they should get one anyway and try it out, a Lotus Elan tuned for D400.
Second would be a car I doubt anyone, myself included has even purchased yet, a PT Cruiser tuned for C550.
 This will give us two cars to mess around with and be on semi-even ground.  They are both easily available and low cost.



So to recap, get these two cars ready:



1972 Lotus Elan Sprint D400

2004 Chrysler PT Cruiser GT C550


I like the idea in theory, although I'd prefer something sexier than the PT.  Also, if we're going to tune our own cars, perhaps we should select a track.  I'd suggest Laguna Seca.  Finally, when are we doing this?  I doubt I'll be ready for tonight as I'd like to make a little more progress in the SP before we get started, and I am considering helping ATB with the GRAW2 achievement.  Otoh, I have plans tomorrow night, and Sunday night is the Sopranos finale.  Perhaps you should start a thread in the MP forum, Hark, so we can tie down the details if you really want to do this.  Or, just leave it casual and have the race whenever there are enough people on that have the requisite cars.

The nice thing about Ed's suggestion is that we can use the cars from the arcade garage and no one has to spend any money.  Communism FTW!
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« Reply #462 on: June 08, 2007, 02:56:36 PM »

Stock cars is another option, but that removes any chance to get extra performance out of a ride, or to personalize it in any way which is a big part of this game.  Different people drive differently and can make the car more fit for themselves.  Some people will squeak out as much speed in the straights as possible, some go for out of turn acceleration and some go for handling.  I find it very interesting to see how different people approach the issue.  Everyone driving the exact same car is fun for a bit, but it loses the personality the game can provide imo.

I'll get a thread for this in the mp forum as Ike suggested, I always forget it's there. lol

Part of why I picked the PT Cruiser is because it's a fun one to paint on so everyone can personalize it well, it also doesn't drive very well stock so what you do with upgrades and tuning will make a big difference.  I also picked it because the odds of someone already having one tuned and ready to go are pretty slim.  They only cost me 5k stock and the parts to get one up to C class take less than 1 hour to get and you don't even have to do anything.  If you are desperate for the money, just take a good D car you've tuned, run the D class endurance race with a hired driver, and watch TV for 48 minutes.  61k is yours at that point and is more than enough to get the PT to C spec.  It's just an idea, people wanted the field to be more even, and this is a way to even it up without making it completely identical.  It also allows us to show off painting/upgrading/tuning skills on a comparative canvas.

Just got done painting up my PT Cruiser...

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Calvin
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« Reply #463 on: June 08, 2007, 03:10:32 PM »

I think stock cars makes sense. Makes it more accessible for people who simply don't have the career cash to buy and pimp out a car thats not super cheap-why not at least leave the "custom tuner" cars up for some sort of vote for each class.

Also, I don't think I will be playing races anymore where there is no thought for restriction. There is no point and less fun to racing when its obvious 2 people are the only ones that can win unless they totally screw up, or to demonstrate the superiority of a car in SP that is 20 levels above the other people in the room. Can get that experience in any random server.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #464 on: June 08, 2007, 03:14:14 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on June 08, 2007, 03:10:32 PM

I think stock cars makes sense. Makes it more accessible for people who simply don't have the career cash to buy and pimp out a car thats not super cheap-why not at least leave the "custom tuner" cars up for some sort of vote for each class.

Also, I don't think I will be playing races anymore where there is no thought for restriction. There is no point and less fun to racing when its obvious 2 people are the only ones that can win unless they totally screw up, or to demonstrate the superiority of a car in SP that is 20 levels above the other people in the room. Can get that experience in any random server.
That's my point: to me the point of all having the same car is to equalize the car to test skill rather than to see who is better at fidgeting with numbers. Nothing's more annoying that losing because somebody plays the game more than I do rather than because somebody is better at driving than I am.
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« Reply #465 on: June 08, 2007, 03:16:33 PM »

What we should do is maybe put together a short-list of cars and max allowed performance index for each.  For example, rather than taking everything to 400, we could limit a car or two to 350 or 375, just to keep things fresh and interesting.

Put me in the category of people that wants to have something other than stock cars.  I love the idea of personalizing all of my commonly used rides, and having a shortlist of common cars means that I can concentrate on the cars I'll actually be using.  Stock races are fun to measure skill, but I think the elements of upgrading and tuning give the game a little extra pop.

That, and you don't have to get THAT much money to buy/upgrade two cars.
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« Reply #466 on: June 08, 2007, 03:18:58 PM »

I understand what you're saying Hark.  Racing identical cars (i.e., stock) tests the driver's driving ability, rather than his ability to upgrade/tweak.  Racing the same model with the ability to tune & upgrade is a test of your ability to drive and to tweak.  But I'd want the following caveat:  you've got to allow others to download your setup.  I'm no good at tuning cars.  I'll participate, but only if I'm going to be able to learn somehting.  
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« Reply #467 on: June 08, 2007, 03:28:22 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 08, 2007, 03:14:14 PM

Quote from: Calvin on June 08, 2007, 03:10:32 PM

I think stock cars makes sense. Makes it more accessible for people who simply don't have the career cash to buy and pimp out a car thats not super cheap-why not at least leave the "custom tuner" cars up for some sort of vote for each class.

Also, I don't think I will be playing races anymore where there is no thought for restriction. There is no point and less fun to racing when its obvious 2 people are the only ones that can win unless they totally screw up, or to demonstrate the superiority of a car in SP that is 20 levels above the other people in the room. Can get that experience in any random server.
That's my point: to me the point of all having the same car is to equalize the car to test skill rather than to see who is better at fidgeting with numbers. Nothing's more annoying that losing because somebody plays the game more than I do rather than because somebody is better at driving than I am.
+1, we are on exactly the same page.
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« Reply #468 on: June 08, 2007, 03:33:16 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on June 08, 2007, 03:18:58 PM

I understand what you're saying Hark.  Racing identical cars (i.e., stock) tests the driver's driving ability, rather than his ability to upgrade/tweak.  Racing the same model with the ability to tune & upgrade is a test of your ability to drive and to tweak.  But I'd want the following caveat:  you've got to allow others to download your setup.  I'm no good at tuning cars.  I'll participate, but only if I'm going to be able to learn somehting. 

I'd have no problem with that.  I don't think any of us are taking this so seriously that a setup is going to be a closely-held trade secret, and I'd love for it to become a forum for some of us less-skilled tuners to learn something.

What we could do at some point, since you can tune cars in lobbies but not upgrade, is spec out one or two 400 P.I. cars including upgrades, post the list so everyone can put together the same 'stock upgrades', and then only allow different tunings.  That at least rules out the 'your car is better than mine' complaints.

Edit:  That, or at least let people buy the 'stock' car and use it with no upgrades so they can paint their own.  Again, the customization is a huge part of why I love Forza.
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Calvin
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« Reply #469 on: June 08, 2007, 03:39:34 PM »

Quote from: Clanwolfer on June 08, 2007, 03:33:16 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on June 08, 2007, 03:18:58 PM

I understand what you're saying Hark.  Racing identical cars (i.e., stock) tests the driver's driving ability, rather than his ability to upgrade/tweak.  Racing the same model with the ability to tune & upgrade is a test of your ability to drive and to tweak.  But I'd want the following caveat:  you've got to allow others to download your setup.  I'm no good at tuning cars.  I'll participate, but only if I'm going to be able to learn somehting. 
.  That at least rules out the 'your car is better than mine' complaints.

Edit:  That, or at least let people buy the 'stock' car and use it with no upgrades so they can paint their own.  Again, the customization is a huge part of why I love Forza.

Its not so much a complaint as it is a complete truth for 90% of the races we do. Obviously customization is awesome and fun and we all want to do it, but in the above circumstances, it can become less fun for others.
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« Reply #470 on: June 08, 2007, 03:52:58 PM »

I'd have no problem with setting up a car for someone after we race.  Just gift me the car, I'll get the upgrades and setup tweaked and gift it back.  Not sure if there is an easier way to do it or not.  Setups are very personal though and what works for one person's driving style may not work for others.  I learned a lot from just watching replays of the fastest laps in each class on each track.

Part of why I'd like to do this is so that we can compare the different approaches people make to the task, see which ones are 'better' in which situations, and then as a group we'd be able to discuss them and move on from there.  It's a way to make the tedious part of the game fun and somewhat competitive.  After the race, we'd see the different ways and be able to ask each other what they did and try it out ourselves and see if we like it more or less.  This experience can be used on any car from there out.  I can tell you I learned a lot from my tests with the PT Cruiser this morning and am very much looking forward to trying it out.  With 300 cars and 10 classes available we'll have plenty of room for experimentation.

I'd be more apt to go for stock cars if they were more tunable, but not being able to tweak anything at all makes it a bit dull to me.  Until we're running really long races with people who can go 30 laps without running each other off the road, then you simply don't have a long enough race for clean passing to develop if everyone is in identical cars.  By the very nature of the beast, the people who start behind will have to play catch-up and when you're in the exact same car it's a very patient game to find a pass opportunity.  The first and second turn pile up or bang and smash is the only thing currently shaking things up in the stock only races.

I think one of the problems is that a lot of the people who want stock only to show driving skill, are the same people who can't stomach really long races that are more appropriate for them.  From the time you're right on someone's bumper it can easily be 5-10 laps before you can pass them and that's when you have a faster car.  If the car is the same speed it's even longer.  3-5 lap races are really a crap shoot of who gets lucky and escapes early damage or pulls off a really risky (or stupid) pass.  It's fun arcade racing, and I can get into it sometimes but it's not my main focus in this game.

In regards to feeling left behind by someone because they 'have a better car' I call bullocks on that.  Money is very easy to make in single player, even if you are afk as explained above.  Anyone can buy any car and download the setups from the fastest times on the leaderboard.  We could all have all the same cars.  Hell, if you need a car that you can't buy and I can, I'll gift it to you if you gift me the same money value back.  The point of playing with everyone using different cars is a large part of this game.  Everyone has access eventually to every car and every upgrade.  If you are lacking in painting skills, auction house or get a gift.  If you're lacking in upgrade skills or tuning skills, buy a car either pre-tuned at the auction house, or just download a setup from the leaderboard.  They made the game incredibly accessible.  I didn't know crap about setting up a car until I downloaded some setups and saw what they did then read the official forums a bit.

I'm all for keeping the game fun for as many people as possible, but sometimes people seem to have blinders on and perceive inequities that simply are not there.
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wonderpug
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« Reply #471 on: June 08, 2007, 04:40:34 PM »

I enjoy the tuning aspect.  In a B-class Maple Valley race last night, Hark's Lotus handily beat my Toyota MR-2 by a wide margin.  It would be easy to simply say that his car was superior, but I just see a chance for a rematch.  He clearly has the advantage in the turns, but on the track's straightaway I had a good 30-40 mph top speed advantage that really helped close the gap.  In fact, our "best lap" times weren't that different, despite his total time being much better.

So I start thinking of how I could beat his Lotus next time.  Maybe drop the power a bit in order to free up the PI for better tires so I can keep up in the turns more.  Maybe I keep the parts as-is but do some gearing tweaks to get some more out of my horsepower advantage.  Maybe I could try adding front and rear spoilers to help cling to the corners.

With tweaks I think my MR2 could beat his Lotus, but of course he'll be tweaking his Lotus as well.  We'll just have to see what happens the next time we're at the track.  This is a big aspect of the fun of tuning. 

To the folks that want us to be mostly racing untuned cars: Is it that you don't want to touch the tuning aspect of the game in any way shape or form, or that you don't want the winner to always be determined by who happened to buy the better car and parts?

If the latter, I think the compromise is to have everyone choose the same car and have a hard limit on the PI index people can tune it to.  That way everyone stays on an even playing field, with some individuality allowed to come out.  And I think this is what Hark is going for with his suggestion.  If it seems like the tuning still gives people an unfair advantage, we could just make even stricter restrictions on the amount of parts we're allowed to purchase, like limiting people to just 30 PI points over stock, for example.

If, in the event that someone really does manage to develop some unstoppable beast within the restrictions, we can always just have the host disable the tuning options for everyone at once with the race settings.  Best of both worlds.  And then at least everyone will still get to keep their paint jobs so we don't all look like clones! smile
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« Reply #472 on: June 08, 2007, 04:56:25 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on June 08, 2007, 03:52:58 PM

I'm all for keeping the game fun for as many people as possible, but sometimes people seem to have blinders on and perceive inequities that simply are not there.
If the game isn't fun, people just won't play, no matter what.
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« Reply #473 on: June 08, 2007, 05:15:06 PM »

My thoughts:

1) When we do 'equal' races, we might as well just pick a car from the stock list and go from there.  I'd really rather not force others (and myself) to spend time making a car they wouldn't want/care to use otherwise just for the MP races.  There's really very little advantage to doing anything different.

2) If we were to pick 'similar' tuned cars, why pick the Elan?  I have a hard enough time keeping that car pointed in the direction I want - I can't imagine what Ed or Calvin would do with it slywink.  It's just too hard a car to drive, even if it is really fast.

3) I too like the personalization of the game, so I'd honestly prefer mostly open races with a few closed races here and there to mix things up.

gellar
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« Reply #474 on: June 08, 2007, 05:22:33 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 08, 2007, 04:40:34 PM

I enjoy the tuning aspect.  In a B-class Maple Valley race last night, Hark's Lotus handily beat my Toyota MR-2 by a wide margin.  It would be easy to simply say that his car was superior, but I just see a chance for a rematch.  He clearly has the advantage in the turns, but on the track's straightaway I had a good 30-40 mph top speed advantage that really helped close the gap.  In fact, our "best lap" times weren't that different, despite his total time being much better.

So I start thinking of how I could beat his Lotus next time.  Maybe drop the power a bit in order to free up the PI for better tires so I can keep up in the turns more.  Maybe I keep the parts as-is but do some gearing tweaks to get some more out of my horsepower advantage.  Maybe I could try adding front and rear spoilers to help cling to the corners.

With tweaks I think my MR2 could beat his Lotus, but of course he'll be tweaking his Lotus as well.  We'll just have to see what happens the next time we're at the track.  This is a big aspect of the fun of tuning. 

To the folks that want us to be mostly racing untuned cars: Is it that you don't want to touch the tuning aspect of the game in any way shape or form, or that you don't want the winner to always be determined by who happened to buy the better car and parts?

If the latter, I think the compromise is to have everyone choose the same car and have a hard limit on the PI index people can tune it to.  That way everyone stays on an even playing field, with some individuality allowed to come out.  And I think this is what Hark is going for with his suggestion.  If it seems like the tuning still gives people an unfair advantage, we could just make even stricter restrictions on the amount of parts we're allowed to purchase, like limiting people to just 30 PI points over stock, for example.

If, in the event that someone really does manage to develop some unstoppable beast within the restrictions, we can always just have the host disable the tuning options for everyone at once with the race settings.  Best of both worlds.  And then at least everyone will still get to keep their paint jobs so we don't all look like clones! smile

I think this is the reason I play the game too.  I just wish the customization screens (parts /shop screens) were available from the MP session you are in.  It sucks when you have to quit the game to mod the car you want with the parts to match the race's PI.  That said, I love the MP on this game because we can make the rules on how to play.  We can race all stock if we want to, or let everyone tune out to whatever PI they want, or set a specific PI and make people match it.  It is beautiful for that aspect.  It just sucks that you pretty much need to know the PI in advance, or have multiple versions of the car you want to drive because you can only tune the car in MP, not change out parts.
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« Reply #475 on: June 08, 2007, 05:26:01 PM »

Money is an issue for some of us who don't consistently place 1st or 2nd in multiplayer races.  The Elan which Hark says is cheap cost me about 70k to upgrade to D400 and I had saved about 120k at that point.  I'm not really keen on buying a PT Cruiser.

I did get an idea though last night when I ran an endurance race with a hired driver.  I made about 60k profit.  I think I should be able to run this a couple of times especially when I can't actively play to get a steady flow of cash.  Is there any penalty (cash wise) for repeating already completed races?
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« Reply #476 on: June 08, 2007, 05:40:04 PM »

What gellar said is what I was saying, in summary, and with proper use of paragraphs and pronunciation. So yeah, +1 and stuff.
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« Reply #477 on: June 08, 2007, 05:53:48 PM »

I am really enjoying the single player of this game, but multiplayer has been real hit or miss.  I have tried tuning my car but usually end up just making it worse.  So while my car is a C550 just like the rest of the pack, my car has no chance against most others. 
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« Reply #478 on: June 08, 2007, 05:59:30 PM »

Yeah, we seem to be quibbling.  I am fine with things the way they are.  No one is forced to race in any race they don't want to.  If you don't want to buy a PT, don't.  I have found there to be an acceptable mix of races when I've played online.  My problem with longer MP races is that I'm/we're not good enough yet.  It sucks getting damaged in the early part of the race, and then being stuck with a car that's running slower than it should for the rest of the race.

I also started a tips/tricks thread with the hope that folks who understand the tuning aspect could help out those of us who don't <nudge, nudge, Hark>.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 06:02:41 PM by IkeVandergraaf » Logged

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« Reply #479 on: June 08, 2007, 06:38:18 PM »

I think people's aversion to getting into the tuning is the learning curve.  Speaking as someone completely unskilled at tuning, but willing to get into it, I can relate to this.  Most of the settings have obscure names, the effects are hard to percieve, and they're all interrelated.  It's one thing to know what a setting does, and another to understand why to set it one way or another, and how that affects the car's handling and other settings.  Even though I can download tuning settings, they don't mean a lot to me right now. 

Let's face it, tuning is not the easiest thing to learn.  I suspect that the people who have been playing these types of games for longer have a distinct advantage, and people pushing for more standardized setups are people looking to have a slightly better chance of competing online.  It's not that people are unwilling to learn to tune, it's just that there's a lot to learn, and in the meantime, finishing way, way behind can get old after a while.
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