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Author Topic: Can't believe I am saying this, Red Steel ain't so bad  (Read 2441 times)
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Tebunker
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« on: December 13, 2006, 04:05:26 AM »

No really,  you read that right. I rented Red Steel, and at about 7 or 8 hours in, I can say this is a decent launch shooter. It has its problems, oh yes. The controls are not ironed out by any means, and sometimes they will go all wonky haywire. Fortunately it has yet to really hurt me in game as the targeting reticle usually flies off when you're standing still and you can quickly reset it. I think they really could've tightened things up too, maybe a smaller box to move the reticle in, and some refining of things like zooming in. Otherwise, the game play, level design, and story have gotten progressively better as I go through the stages. The story and the background are pretty darn interesting, and they are making me want to keep playing. The sword mechanics work too, but definitely need more polish, and I like earning new techniques from a trainer. Graphics aren't groundbreaking, but Ubisoft is onto something, and I think by the end of 2007 they will be creating some visually satisfying games for the Wii, note I didn't say impressive but they are on track to make some games that look good enough.

I just stopped playing for the night, game goes back tomorrow, and I was thinking to myself that I am either going to have to rent this one again or buy it eventually. I won't say it's a great game, or even worth $50, but it is a very competent shooter once you get used to the control oddities. I would say that at $30 it will give any gamer a solid and enjoyable FPS experience. I'll try to get a full review up in the next couple of days, but I can safely say that you could ignore a lot of the reviews that call the game a stinker as the title has a lot more good than bad and definintely sits in the 7.5/10 or so range. If this game didn't launch with the system and had the extra 6 months of polish and refinement we probably would've been talking about it as a truly great game.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2006, 04:06:58 AM by Tebunker » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2006, 04:15:38 AM »

Agreed.  Not really sure why all the intense hate.  I guess it's for the missed potential.  This is not how an FPS should/will work on the Wii, but it works for now and is letting me see the possibilities to come. 

The presentation of the story is pretty bad, I will say, but the story itself is fine.

Mostly, though, I keep coming back to it, which is saying something, certainly.
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2006, 04:17:28 AM »

Once they figure out not to put turning and aiming together, I think control schemes will get a lot better.
Think outside the box, people!
There are ways to use this controller that haven't been done before.
I've said this elsewhere, but one example is that you could rotate the wiimote around its long axis
to strafe, use the analog to turn/move forward and back, leaving the pointer for just aiming.
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2006, 09:27:08 AM »

i played about 30 minutes of it,cant get used to the controls...mainly using the Wii-mote as both aim and movement

when i get through zelda i will go back to it
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2006, 12:49:58 PM »

I like it so far.. Graphic and control is not great but somehow I am keep coming back for more ninja
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2006, 01:47:36 PM »

My brother-in-law really likes the game (he's pretty much the definition of casual gamer).  Maybe he'll let me borrow it sometime. 
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2006, 01:55:33 PM »

In my mind, Red Steel is a terrible, terrible game IMHO. It harkens back to the like of Trespasser it's so bad, with the goofy arm movements that make no realistic sense. Couple that with lousy voice acting (that was 'dumbed down' to avoid getting a M rating), first-gen Gamecube graphics, lame plot (which should have been FAR better thanks to the setting), and sword fights that make no sense whatsoever (why can't I just Indy shoot the guy again?), and you have a shooter that's a total waste of time.

And the main menu interface? Worst menu interface EVER for a FPS. Period.
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2006, 02:05:43 PM »

I have only watched people play it. But from what I have seen I can't see why anyone would play Red Steel with so many better shooters out there.  From what I have seen the game is aweful in terms or graphics, animation, voice acting, and control.  My Wii is still under the Christmas  tree but after watching people play Red Steel I am going to pass.

Everyone has their own opinions, but to me this game is brutal.
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2006, 02:39:14 PM »

The two D's strike hard and swift!  disgust  icon_wink

It all depends on how much of a jaded gamer you are and how much one nitpicks things to death.  I've been seeing a lot of that at GT lately.  I'm really enjoying this game.  I love the swordfighting in particular.  Who cares if you can't pull an Indiana Jones and just shoot the guy.  That's not the point.  The "game" is breaking up the gunfighting with some nifty sword battles.  I think it's cool.  Using the Wii remote to shoot will never get old.  The graphics, voice acting and story are just fine.  I even like the Manga style cut scenes.  Yes, the menu is strange and quirky but we are all pretty smart to figure it out and once in the game the menu is a non issue.  nod
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2006, 02:46:12 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on December 13, 2006, 02:39:14 PM

The two D's strike hard and swift!  disgust  icon_wink

It all depends on how much of a jaded gamer you are and how much one nitpicks things to death.  I've been seeing a lot of that at GT lately.  I'm really enjoying this game.  I love the swordfighting in particular.  Who cares if you can't pull an Indiana Jones and just shoot the guy.  That's not the point.  The "game" is breaking up the gunfighting with some nifty sword battles.  I think it's cool.  Using the Wii remote to shoot will never get old.  The graphics, voice acting and story are just fine.  I even like the Manga style cut scenes.  Yes, the menu is strange and quirky but we are all pretty smart to figure it out and once in the game the menu is a non issue.  nod

You know, I don't think it is a matter of being a Jaded Gamer.  It is a matter of having so many games out there with many of us owning multiple consoles, we just don't have time to bother with an utterly mediocre game.  Also to me, poorly integrated Wii controls could be a killer for the system if it starts happening more often.
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2006, 02:52:15 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on December 13, 2006, 01:55:33 PM

sword fights that make no sense whatsoever (why can't I just Indy shoot the guy again?)

Um, honor.
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2006, 03:03:26 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on December 13, 2006, 02:39:14 PM

It all depends on how much of a jaded gamer you are and how much one nitpicks things to death..........The graphics, voice acting and story are just fine.  I even like the Manga style cut scenes.  Yes, the menu is strange and quirky but we are all pretty smart to figure it out and once in the game the menu is a non issue.  nod

I wish I reported to you at work Shifty.   icon_biggrin

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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2006, 03:18:26 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on December 13, 2006, 03:03:26 PM

I wish I reported to you at work Shifty.   icon_biggrin
Yep, I'm pretty easy going and I like most games out there.  It is rare for me to actually trash a game.  But, I do lose it from time to time.  icon_wink

You're hired - with a big fat raise!  icon_smile

How come you are not on my friends list?  Sent you an invite!  Maybe we can hook up for some hockey!  Quickly before I drop to Silver!  Devil is afraid to play me.  So is Lockdown.  It must be the might of the orange & blue!  saywhat
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2006, 03:23:05 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on December 13, 2006, 03:18:26 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on December 13, 2006, 03:03:26 PM

I wish I reported to you at work Shifty.   icon_biggrin
Yep, I'm pretty easy going and I like most games out there.  It is rare for me to actually trash a game.  But, I do lose it from time to time.  icon_wink

You're hired - with a big fat raise!  icon_smile

How come you are not on my friends list?  Sent you an invite!  Maybe we can hook up for some hockey!  Quickly before I drop to Silver!  Devil is afraid to play me.  So is Lockdown.  It must be the might of the orange & blue!  saywhat

We'll settle this on the ice !!! Blue Jackets vs Islanders.

I think my FL is full but I am going to drop some dead weight and send you an invite tonight.

I do understand your point.  I have read alot of people ripping The Outfit and Killzone Liberation on the PSP and I love both games.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.   icon_biggrin
« Last Edit: December 13, 2006, 03:28:15 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2006, 03:46:49 PM »

Really, people don't like Killzone Liberation?  That's a very well done game.  I enjoy The Outfit, too, but I understand why some people might not.
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2006, 08:32:38 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on December 13, 2006, 02:39:14 PM

The two D's strike hard and swift!  disgust  icon_wink

It all depends on how much of a jaded gamer you are and how much one nitpicks things to death.

But the whole problem is that I'm not a jaded gamer. Gameplay is more important to me than graphics are (one reason why I still love my PS2 so much). This game just didn't have either. Especially in comparison to the other games out there (as Arkon stated).

Quote from: Bullwinkle on December 13, 2006, 02:52:15 PM

Quote from: Destructor on December 13, 2006, 01:55:33 PM

sword fights that make no sense whatsoever (why can't I just Indy shoot the guy again?)
Um, honor.

But I can still 'honorlessly' kill them after I've knocked their weapon away in the end. Why can't I just shoot them beforehand?
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2006, 02:19:33 PM »

I was given Red Steel for Xmas last night. My first impressions are quite bad. The controls are horrible. Just horrible. Not only do I not like how far you have to move the reticule to turn the camera, but I frequently get little hitches with the reticule that I haven't encountered in Zelda or Call of Duty (got this last night too).

I find the clashes in art/graphic styles irritating too. They needed to pick one style and go with it. The result is some stuff looks quite cool and some stuff looks awful. Now I understand why some people think Red Steel is one of the best looking launch titles and some people think it looks awful. They're both right! I was terrified that my hopes for the Wii as a FPS console were unfounded when playing this game. Thankfully, I then put CoD3 in and it controls beautifully.
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2006, 02:44:14 PM »

The gameplay and story really takes off after you get to Tokyo.  I was wondering when the heck I was going to get to Japan.  I just got there last night and I'm currently at a wastewater treatment plant on the outskirts of Tokyo Bay.  After first arriving in Tokyo (no spoilers), you get to learn your first sword techniques, bullet (freeze) time and how to disarm an enemy with your weapon!  This stuff is cool!

I have no issues whatsoever with the controls.  It's pretty easy in fact.  The only "trouble" I had was figuring out how to properly throw a grenade with the nunchuck.  I figured it out after about a half dozen times dropping the damn grenade on my head!  icon_lol

The gameplay and story just seem to be clicking for me.  I'm having fun.
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2006, 07:35:09 PM »

Im only just past the Car shop, but so far I dont really care for it. There are so many bugs and the game is very unpolished in general. Tons of clipping problems, wonky aiming, and a severe framerate problem in spots. The voice acting is absolutely horrible. They have black thug characters who speak with a nerdy sounding white mans voice and the dialogue makes Far Cry seem like Shakespeare in comparison. The most disappointing thing is how worthless the swordplay is. Its pre determined by the game when you can actually fight with the katana and there is no depth or challenge whatsoever.

Really the only compliment I can give it is the zooming function. Its pretty cool to bring the remote up and in front of you to zoom in aim like you would a real firearm.
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2006, 08:02:04 PM »

Quote from: siege on December 15, 2006, 07:35:09 PM

There are so many bugs and the game is very unpolished in general.
I'm curious as to what bugs you found.  I have not seen any and I'm already in Tokyo.

Quote
Tons of clipping problems
Again I have not seen any.  At least I have not noticed anything.

Quote
wonky aiming
A couple of times, especially peeking around obstacles, I have noticed the cursor suddenly jumping.  Not enough to be a problem though.

Quote
a severe framerate problem in spots
Have not seen this either.

Quote
The voice acting is absolutely horrible.
This doesn't bother me in the least.  I think the Japanese is done well.  No irritating voices.

Quote
The most disappointing thing is how worthless the swordplay is. Its pre determined by the game when you can actually fight with the katana and there is no depth or challenge whatsoever.
This is where I completely disagree.  The pre-determined aspect is what it is designed to be.  I think if you were expecting free reign with the sword (like in Zelda, being able to use it whenever you want) you will be disappointed.  I like the predetermined sword fights as it presents a dramatic moment in the gameplay and a nice break from all the shooting.  Plus, the last couple of sword fights before leaving for Tokyo are pretty involved as you now have to worry about dodging in addition to parrying and choosing the right moment to do each because certain big sword attacks cannot be parried so you have to dodge instead.  I died several times in these sword fights.  Now that I'm in Tokyo I even picked up more sword fighting skills.  I can only imagine that the sword fighting will become even more involved and a challenge from here on out.

Quote
Really the only compliment I can give it is the zooming function.
And here is the funny part.  I don't care for the zooming!  My arm gets tired holding it straight out and your arm tends to wobble because you are zoomed in so much.  I usually don't zoom unless I'm using the sniper rifle from a hidden position.
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2006, 09:39:52 PM »

Quote from: Starshifter on December 15, 2006, 08:02:04 PM

Quote from: siege on December 15, 2006, 07:35:09 PM

There are so many bugs and the game is very unpolished in general.
I'm curious as to what bugs you found.  I have not seen any and I'm already in Tokyo.

Quote
Tons of clipping problems
Again I have not seen any.  At least I have not noticed anything.

Quote
wonky aiming
A couple of times, especially peeking around obstacles, I have noticed the cursor suddenly jumping.  Not enough to be a problem though.

Quote
a severe framerate problem in spots
Have not seen this either.

Quote
The voice acting is absolutely horrible.
This doesn't bother me in the least.  I think the Japanese is done well.  No irritating voices.

Quote
The most disappointing thing is how worthless the swordplay is. Its pre determined by the game when you can actually fight with the katana and there is no depth or challenge whatsoever.
This is where I completely disagree.  The pre-determined aspect is what it is designed to be.  I think if you were expecting free reign with the sword (like in Zelda, being able to use it whenever you want) you will be disappointed.  I like the predetermined sword fights as it presents a dramatic moment in the gameplay and a nice break from all the shooting.  Plus, the last couple of sword fights before leaving for Tokyo are pretty involved as you now have to worry about dodging in addition to parrying and choosing the right moment to do each because certain big sword attacks cannot be parried so you have to dodge instead.  I died several times in these sword fights.  Now that I'm in Tokyo I even picked up more sword fighting skills.  I can only imagine that the sword fighting will become even more involved and a challenge from here on out.

Quote
Really the only compliment I can give it is the zooming function.
And here is the funny part.  I don't care for the zooming!  My arm gets tired holding it straight out and your arm tends to wobble because you are zoomed in so much.  I usually don't zoom unless I'm using the sniper rifle from a hidden position.

I suppose we just really have different tastes. I can't believe you haven't seen any clipping problems or had framerate issues. Maybe I have a bad copy or something, because it's a pretty frequent occurence for me.
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2006, 10:53:54 PM »

I've got to side with Starshifter on everything here.  I haven't seen framerate or clipping problems at all.  The aiming is poorly designed, but I haven't seen much wonkiness.  The voice acting isn't as bad as Elebits.  I find the swordfighting to be refreshing.  And I'm not a big fan of the zoom, either.
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2006, 11:58:58 PM »

I too have seen the framerate dip in spots, though it isn't a frequent problem.

I like the swordfighting myself. In fact, it's probably my favorite part of the game.

I don't like the fact that you have to actually finish a mission to save and quit. I also don't like unskippable cut scenes. This game does an awful lot of things wrong, frankly.

I actually like the forgiving health system too. It keeps a frustrating game from becoming so frustrating that I quit it.
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2006, 09:01:16 AM »

Put me in the "I like it" camp. I'll be the first to admit that Red Steel is a very mediocre game but as Starshifter has mentioned, once you get to Tokyo it becomes more enjoyable than the beginning. The sword fighting gets very challenging and there is a very cool fun house level that is somewhat reminiscent of Manhunt. Now about that voice acting...... retard
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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2006, 03:28:35 PM »

I think a lot of us are echoing the same sentiment, despite the game's many shortcomings, it is still an enjoyable title that is fun to play. It's not an unplayable mess like some reviews and others have stated. The design team definately made some quirky and weird desicions, and while they could've changed some things and made a great game, what the made is a decent, not great, but a decent FPS.

On another note, everywhere has the game listed as 480p and widescreen and I know for fact that when I played it did not display as such, and I found no options to change it. All my other games run fine in 480p...
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2006, 06:16:06 PM »

If your going to say things "Well its not that bad for a launch game" then I guess so, but compared to what's available this fall and all the titles that have come out this year so far its way, way down the list of things to play.
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2006, 06:38:14 PM »

I'm in Tokyo now and it's picked up a bit. I like that you can choose which missions to go on. The game seems a bit short - I'm only 5 hours in or so and it says I'm 45% complete.
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2006, 07:57:01 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on December 16, 2006, 06:16:06 PM

If your going to say things "Well its not that bad for a launch game" then I guess so, but compared to what's available this fall and all the titles that have come out this year so far its way, way down the list of things to play.

Yeah I don't anyone is trying to compare it to Gears of War, we are just judging it on it's own merits, not against the rest of the industry.
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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2007, 11:11:34 PM »

I picked this up yesterday for $25 used.  Despite the somewhat wonky controls I'm liking it.  Did anyone else have issues where the subtitles wouldn't fit on the screen?  During cut scenes the first line will appear but everything else is cut off.
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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2007, 11:36:33 PM »

Never had that issue. Are your widescreen settings set correctly. I would say $25 used is a decent price. It's definitely about a $30 game. Solid Launch effort that has a lot of potential.
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2007, 12:24:24 AM »

I think it had great potential and fell short on a lot of aspects.  However, the firefights were great and doing things like raking the room with automatic fire hasn't felt more fun than on the Wii, there's just something about moving the controller to shoot that works great, but that damn turning thing that can't be changed is a problem.  Too bad they can't really patch it in.

Those people having trouble with the crosshairs going wonky... make sure your cell phones and other broadcasting electronics are away from your Wiimote.  They interfere with the signal.
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2007, 01:14:05 AM »

I gave up on this game after getting to Tokyo and not really liking the game any more than before. I haven't ditched it yet, but it will be traded in just as soon as EB has one of their bonus tradein value weekends. I liked certain elements of the game but the controls are horrible and I just got sick of continually fighting with them. I like Call of Duty 3's controls better, but like the game less than Red Steel. (I just don't get into these chaotic war shooters. Just a personal preference rather than a condemnation of the game itself.) I still hope Metroid gets the controls down better. So far, my hopes for the Wii as a great FPS console aren't being realized. Though I would rather play RS or CoD3 than any shooter with a gamepad, so that's something.
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« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2007, 01:45:09 AM »

Quote from: JCC on February 19, 2007, 01:14:05 AM

I gave up on this game after getting to Tokyo and not really liking the game any more than before. I haven't ditched it yet, but it will be traded in just as soon as EB has one of their bonus tradein value weekends. I liked certain elements of the game but the controls are horrible and I just got sick of continually fighting with them. I like Call of Duty 3's controls better, but like the game less than Red Steel. (I just don't get into these chaotic war shooters. Just a personal preference rather than a condemnation of the game itself.) I still hope Metroid gets the controls down better. So far, my hopes for the Wii as a great FPS console aren't being realized. Though I would rather play RS or CoD3 than any shooter with a gamepad, so that's something.


Keep an Eye on Medal of Honor Vanguard do out in March. They will have the option for a fixed reticle otherwise known as mouse look, or the option of different sized bounding boxes. Very interested in this one nailing the controls.
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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2007, 03:51:17 PM »

Quote from: Tebunker on February 18, 2007, 11:36:33 PM

Never had that issue. Are your widescreen settings set correctly. I would say $25 used is a decent price. It's definitely about a $30 game. Solid Launch effort that has a lot of potential.

I checked the official (and some unofficial) boards and didn't see anyone else mentioning the issue.  Everything is setup right, and as far as I can tell I'm not missing anything other than the subtitles.  the weird thing is that they are so big that even if they fit on the screen they would have covered up most of the screen.  It's not a big deal, just kind of weird.

Quote from: Turtle on February 19, 2007, 12:24:24 AM

Those people having trouble with the crosshairs going wonky... make sure your cell phones and other broadcasting electronics are away from your Wiimote.  They interfere with the signal.

That could explain alot for some wierdness I've had.  I always have my cell phone sitting on the coffee table in front of me so it would be directly in the path of the remotes signal.  It never occured to me it could mess with the Wii's signal.
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