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Author Topic: By Request! Zelda Impressions!  (Read 10911 times)
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« Reply #120 on: January 08, 2007, 12:47:51 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 08, 2007, 12:22:07 AM

I have to admit though that I don't really share the love for Wind Waker's ending- I see it come up all the time in the "best ending" discussions but, quite frankly, I can barely remember what happened other than

Spoiler for Hiden:
Ganon taking a blade right through the face.

 

refresh your memory...

such a joyful, beautiful game (& such a kick-ass version of link... & zelda)...
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« Reply #121 on: January 08, 2007, 05:55:47 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 08, 2007, 12:22:07 AM

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on January 07, 2007, 08:03:32 PM

Finally finished the game last night with about sixty hours on my last save file. Part of it is because I hit the wall with the game at about the fifty hour mark and had to force myself to finish it, but I found the last two dugeons and boss battles anticlimactic.

I liked the last two dungeons.  It helped that I knew they weren't full scale dungeons to begin with but I enjoyed that they were more combat heavy since I really enjoy Zelda combat.  After the mammoth seventh dungeon I frankly didn't want to deal with anything on that scale again.  I also loved the visual aesthetic of the second to last dungeon.  I enjoyed this one's take on the traditional "refight" the previous boss battles which I usually hate but thought it was cleverly and painlessly integrated this time out. 

I thought the ending itself was fine if not particular memorable- not great but not poor.  I have to admit though that I don't really share the love for Wind Waker's ending- I see it come up all the time in the "best ending" discussions but, quite frankly, I can barely remember what happened other than

Spoiler for Hiden:
Gannon taking a blade right through the face.

I think I felt about Wind Waker's ending the way you felt about TP's- I was just ready to be done with the game by that point.  I'm thinking about replaying WW, with an emphasis on throughline and less on exporation, and maybe I'll enjoy the ending more this time out. 

The things I liked best about Wind Waker's ending was:

Spoiler for Hiden:
The Red Lion King's speech about how he failed the generations that came after him. I remember the bittersweet line, "This is the best world we could provide for you," with the implication being that his best wasn't good enough. This was contrasted nicely with the sense of a new beginning after the final battle. 

I didn't feel any impact with the ending to TP. I think that's mainly because we rarely saw the effects of Zant's and Ganon's actions beyond the main characters. There was never a feeling that the fate of two kingdoms depended on the outcome.

Sheesh, I just read that and it sounds really strange to have written it about a video game. I guess that's what makes the Zelda games so good. Beyond the gameplay, its the attachments that one makes to the characters.
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« Reply #122 on: January 08, 2007, 06:09:20 AM »

(since this is an Zelda impressions thread, thought I'd throw out some impressions of the Twilight Princess)

I'm 5 hours in, still trying to gather monkeys in the first dungeon and nearly bored to tears.

Carry on.
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« Reply #123 on: January 08, 2007, 06:25:49 AM »

Andrew, agreed on why the ending of TP wasn't necessarilly emotionally compelling. 

Quote
(since this is an Zelda impressions thread, thought I'd throw out some impressions of the Twilight Princess)

I'm 5 hours in, still trying to gather monkeys in the first dungeon and nearly bored to tears.

Carry on

And, yet, you love Okami?  Don't get me wrong- I loved Okami too but it's a carbon copy of Zelda gameplay. 
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« Reply #124 on: January 08, 2007, 07:38:36 AM »

Okami is a gorgeous game, and it's engaging - it's full of memorable characters, the world itself is interesting and compelling and I like Amaterasu.  I'll even take Issun over Midna at this point biggrin

(I do plan on playing more Zelda.  And I hear it gets better.  So that's promising!)
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« Reply #125 on: January 08, 2007, 12:50:55 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on January 08, 2007, 07:38:36 AM

Okami is a gorgeous game, and it's engaging - it's full of memorable characters, the world itself is interesting and compelling and I like Amaterasu.  I'll even take Issun over Midna at this point biggrin

agreed - tho smaller in scale, the story in okami is more solid, the gameworld & supporting characters are more substantial, & the leads are more just plain likeable...
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« Reply #126 on: January 08, 2007, 01:51:20 PM »

I thought the first "half" of Okami was really great in terms of story and character.  But the second half really tanked in that department- the scope got a lot bigger but at the cost of being involved in the characters and the story went from being tight and mythic to long and meandering. 

I would think much more highly of Okami if the first half had been fleshed out a bit more and the game had ended there. 

Quote from: TheMissingLink on January 08, 2007, 07:38:36 AM

Okami is a gorgeous game, and it's engaging - it's full of memorable characters, the world itself is interesting and compelling and I like Amaterasu.  I'll even take Issun over Midna at this point biggrin

(I do plan on playing more Zelda.  And I hear it gets better.  So that's promising!)

I guess we'll see if you like it better but the Twilight Realm alone was enough to hook me and you've already visted there so I'll be surprised if Zelda grows on you. 

Oh, and I'll put Midna over Issun if for nothing else than Midna's gibberish was a lot more varied and less grating icon_wink

What I think Zelda got that Okami missed was knowing when enough was enough- certain repetitive aspects of the early going in Zelda get thrown out about 1/3 of the way through and the focus shifts to these huge, brilliant dungeons while giving you all of the world exploration you want strictly as an optional endeavor.  And then, after a a few of those enormous dungeons, the game tightens back up and goes to smaller, quicker dungeons in a ramp up to the finale.

In contrast, I nearly cried when, 40 hours into Okami, I was still having to go through and remove the blight from new areas of the world.  That was a neat mechanic in the beginning but it ultimately became tiresome which was how I felt about a lot of Okami's mechanics.  Man, really makes me sad we probably won't see an Okami 2 since they really could have gone in and tightened up all of that stuff for a sequel.   
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« Reply #127 on: January 08, 2007, 04:45:14 PM »

It'll grow on you TML.  The twilight realms are fantastic, Midna rocks, the game as a whole rocks... keep on playing!
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« Reply #128 on: January 09, 2007, 08:39:57 PM »

Well Kevin our weekend dicussion inspired me. I got my Zelda Collector's disc back today and hope to start up MM in a bit. Damn (thank) you!  crybaby icon_smile
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« Reply #129 on: January 09, 2007, 08:52:09 PM »

Quote from: JCC on January 09, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

Well Kevin our weekend dicussion inspired me. I got my Zelda Collector's disc back today and hope to start up MM in a bit. Damn (thank) you!  crybaby icon_smile


Looking forward to your impressions!  The Save System *is* confusing at first but very workable once you figure it out.  And unfortunately you need to play at least until you get the Song of Soaring and the first dungeon save point before it becomes less cumbersome. 

FWIW, I'm replaying it now as well (just reached the third dungeon last night and have done about 3/4 of the sidequests) and I count no less than 8 warp points available to me right now with at least two more to go. I could probably be at any point on the map in under two minutes and maybe even one minute.  If you slow down time you seem to have at least three to four hours for a three day cycle which should be more than enough time. 

We were discussing the screwed up reward system that's evident in both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess earlier in this thread and, man, does MM ever get this one *right*.  The mask system is a great use of rewards.  Some masks are necessary to complete some sidequests, some are used to obtain hearts elsewhere, and some really improve your abilities like making you invisible to certain enemies or giving you the ability to move super fast.  And hearts aren't a dime a dozen anymore either.  I'm probably well over 20 hours into the game and still only have about seven or eight hearts in my life meter.  And some enemies are hard- I fought an Iron Knuckle last night and one hit knocked off four hearts which was enough to kill me. 
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« Reply #130 on: February 19, 2007, 07:53:07 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 08, 2007, 06:25:49 AM

And, yet, you love Okami?  Don't get me wrong- I loved Okami too but it's a carbon copy of Zelda gameplay. 

Didn't Okami come out before Twilight Princess?  For a bit in the beginning I was wondering if somehow I didn't get Okami to work on my Wii  icon_wink

I just managed to get back to my 'human' form and I'm about to go to the temple.  I'm liking the game so far though, but I wish I could lose that dorky hat.....
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« Reply #131 on: February 19, 2007, 01:34:16 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 19, 2007, 07:53:07 AM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 08, 2007, 06:25:49 AM

And, yet, you love Okami?  Don't get me wrong- I loved Okami too but it's a carbon copy of Zelda gameplay. 

Didn't Okami come out before Twilight Princess?  For a bit in the beginning I was wondering if somehow I didn't get Okami to work on my Wii  icon_wink

"Zelda Gameplay", not Twilight Princess specific. 
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« Reply #132 on: February 19, 2007, 05:29:02 PM »

Finished it.

SPOILER ALERTS AHEAD.

Yeah, here's my problems with the game... (and although it looks like I'm trashing the game, I actually really enjoyed it).

Items - Most items are used a couple of times, and then never heard from again. Hookshot is the exception to this rule; I miss the days of candle being used almost everywhere. Burning bushes, lighting paths, lighting sconces. This did NOT happen enough; it's almost like you walk around in a "dungeon 5 item" bubble, and very little tie-in to the rest of the world. There are no restricted areas worth mentioning to have you revisit any of the previous dungeons with newly aquired items. Since the world itself is pretty bland it strikes me as odd to not make dungeons more compelling to revisit.

That's not to say that there weren't items you relied on, but there are a fair number of items that basically have a single dungeon cameo and then collect dust.
Spoiler for list of items:
Boomarang is a great example, after the hookshot it's used to turn 4 bridges and 5 or 6 worms that pop up in the flying dungeon.
The spinning disk is used maybe 4 times out of its dungeon (perhaps more if you go hunting for heart pieces or the Cave of Ordeals).
The sniper mask thing is basically useless. The mask in WW was tons better.
I could go on, but ATB would give me heck for making my post too big.


Collecting
I like getting everything I can. I'm not a hard-core completist, but I do what I can. That being said, there is no real point to getting all the hearts. There were only 2 situations where I felt I could have used more health (entering the desert dungeon is the singlemost reason). The bugs didn't seem to be worth it except when trying to get the magic armor (as the wallet upgrade and payout money for the bugs is almost like having a secondary currency that alleviates the frustrating 300/600/1000 max wallet size. The magic armor is a total wash as far as I'm concerned Tongue

Compass/maps - Did any of you use them? With exception to a few caves that had branching paths, there was no need to worry about where you were going' the game led you there and never let go of your hand (including fighting Ganon with Midna telling you exactly what to DO!!!)

Money
The point of money in this game astounds me. Other than buying lantern oil (if you couldn't find a free location or yellow slime) there was no point to it at all. I can't think of one thing I had to buy, ever. Heck, I never bought the third kind of bomb EVER. I don't even know what it does (and I put 62hrs into the game). If I ever needed a bomb somewhere, there was one right nearby.

Ending
It left me feeling like I just watched Dead Mans Chest or Halo 2... the ending that wasn't an ending. I stayed through the credits. This speaks to me like they are going to actually make a sequel to TP which is unusual for the Zelda games. Generations separate all the NES/SNES games (IIRC) so to get to play the same Link is odd to me. It's not bad, just odd.

I also agree with the fact that Zelda was basically non-present and that Link has very little involvement with her in this game. This game didn't once deal with a triforce other than the "chosen" marks on peoples hands, and the statue (which oddly enough has 3 women circling it; a direct parallel to Link, Midna, Zelda and the country-bumpkin could be easily drawn).

I loved the art in it, from the Fable-esque bright and sunny world to the Twilight realm. The controls were, for the most part, excellent.

I give this game a two thumbs up ... but no GOTY. It was enjoyable (I don't sink 60+ hours into crap, folks..) but it certainly was NOT the best Zelda in the series, and I echo agreement that this game felt hollow and just a little soulless.
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« Reply #133 on: February 19, 2007, 05:34:39 PM »

Didn't they already announce that another Zelda game was coming 'soon'?  as in maybe this year?

And Purges mention of Fable reminded me that Zelda is reminding me of Fable alot too with the small area maps and the general control scheme.  Not that that's a bad thing (and hey, Fable could have ripped it off from an ealier Zelda game-  I haven't played a Zelda since the first one on the NES).
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« Reply #134 on: February 19, 2007, 05:37:15 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 19, 2007, 05:34:39 PM

Didn't they already announce that another Zelda game was coming 'soon'?  as in maybe this year?

And Purges mention of Fable reminded me that Zelda is reminding me of Fable alot too with the small area maps and the general control scheme.  Not that that's a bad thing (and hey, Fable could have ripped it off from an ealier Zelda game-  I haven't played a Zelda since the first one on the NES).

The only Zelda game scheduled for the near future is the DS game Phantom Hourglass which is scheduled for the end of this year.

And I haven't played enough of Fable to compare them, but small area maps have been a standby of the series for quite some time (TP's are actually relatively large for the series) and the control scheme is a direct descendant of the previous 3D Zelda games. 
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« Reply #135 on: February 19, 2007, 11:34:12 PM »

now I have not fully finished this yet but....

Spoiler for Hiden:
I am at the sky temple (just got the boss key), and wondering how this game fits with the other Zelda games..it seems at times that it is possibly many many years after OoT, I'm not to "up to date" on the whole Zelda series, but wondering if anyone else felt the connection and placement of things.

Overall I'm still feeling the love for this game, so I'm not sure when I'm going to start dreading it.
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« Reply #136 on: February 20, 2007, 02:24:29 AM »

weleavefossils, there is no easy answer to your question other than it definitely occurs after OoT. 

And if you're in 7th dungeon then you are in the home stretch.  All that is left are two much shorter, more action-focused dungeons. 
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« Reply #137 on: February 20, 2007, 03:25:25 PM »

well, I finished the forest temple last night and was told to expect that I'd be going into beast form again soon.  I'm not really looking forward to that.....I found the first beast portion lacking over being Link.

  I also noticed Z-Lock doesn't seem to work properly.  Sometimes I'll lock on something and Link won't turn around properly if the creature gets behind him.
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« Reply #138 on: February 20, 2007, 03:29:59 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 20, 2007, 03:25:25 PM

  I also noticed Z-Lock doesn't seem to work properly.  Sometimes I'll lock on something and Link won't turn around properly if the creature gets behind him.

Hmm, never noticed anything like that.
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« Reply #139 on: April 10, 2007, 02:43:57 PM »

wow, I fired this up for the first time in a month last night, and now for some reason I'm finding the Wii controls to be hurting the game.  Maybe I'm just out of practice but I was having issues getting anything done right, but I'm seriously considering trading in the Wii version for the GC version so I can use the gamepad.
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« Reply #140 on: April 10, 2007, 05:42:43 PM »

Sorry to read that CeeKay. Zelda is the only Wii game where I feel the controls are both enhanced by the Wii controls and polished to a perfect (or near perfect) level. I know I wouldn't want to do any of the arrow aiming parts with a gamepad again. And I liked the sword swinging too. It made combat feel a little more action packed than simply pressing the B button.
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« Reply #141 on: April 10, 2007, 06:43:32 PM »

Whenever I wind up finishing FFXII this one is next on my list. So probably sometime by the fall.
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« Reply #142 on: April 24, 2007, 04:01:50 PM »

Fortunately, I finished off FFXII last week and decided to really get into this last night. Played for about an hour and a half or so straight through and made it to the start of the first dungeon where you're a wolf. So basically I'm still in generic tutorial mode but I'm digging this. It seems like a lot of fun to be had and I'm looking forward to getting further into it today.
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« Reply #143 on: April 24, 2007, 04:51:30 PM »

Enjoy, as it's one heck of a good game.
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« Reply #144 on: April 27, 2007, 01:36:27 AM »

I just made it through the first dungeon and it's finally clicked for me as to what this game reminds me of. Every since I fired it up, something has been nagging at the back of my mind that I've played elements of this before, but I couldn't put my finger on it until this afternoon.

This is the game Fable wanted to be but failed at.
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« Reply #145 on: April 27, 2007, 02:20:38 PM »

I got the spinner and suddenly I'm into it.  Much further into the game than I would have liked, though.
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« Reply #146 on: April 27, 2007, 03:14:12 PM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on April 27, 2007, 01:36:27 AM

This is the game Fable wanted to be but failed at.

I had a blast with Fable but no matter how much I play Zelda it's just not clicking.  I've gotten as far as the portion just after you get the horse back and have the encounter on the bridge (and that annoying Sumo part).
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« Reply #147 on: April 27, 2007, 03:40:17 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 27, 2007, 03:14:12 PM

Quote from: whiteboyskim on April 27, 2007, 01:36:27 AM

This is the game Fable wanted to be but failed at.

I had a blast with Fable but no matter how much I play Zelda it's just not clicking.  I've gotten as far as the portion just after you get the horse back and have the encounter on the bridge (and that annoying Sumo part).

I'm to the point where I just trained as a sumo and have to head back to the mountains. As I'm feeling like ass I may just head home and see whether I can get any further this afternoon.
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