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Author Topic: Mafia 3 Confirmed - More info @ Gamescom - Trailer Added  (Read 586 times)
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Soulchilde
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« on: July 28, 2015, 12:24:58 PM »

It's happening

trailer
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Quote from: Devil on January 12, 2007, 01:14:38 AM

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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 12:30:29 PM »

Awesome! Love this series. Just gotta hope a new developer doesn't screw it up.
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 01:05:58 PM »

8/5/15 we will see a trailer here.

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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 02:29:01 PM »

Sweet!  Can't wait to see a new Mafia game.  Although I do hope this time they make better use of the open world environment.
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 02:56:11 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on July 28, 2015, 02:29:01 PM

though I do hope this time they make better use of the open world environment.

I'd rather they didn't focus on that. The Mafia games are so good because of their strong stories, and open world games typically struggle to tell such stories in a decent way. I don't want the Mafia 3 story to be interrupted by scavenging for collectibles or climbing radio towers (or their equivalent). I just want a focused, mature game with a strong story.
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 03:09:58 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on July 28, 2015, 02:56:11 PM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on July 28, 2015, 02:29:01 PM

though I do hope this time they make better use of the open world environment.

I'd rather they didn't focus on that. The Mafia games are so good because of their strong stories, and open world games typically struggle to tell such stories in a decent way. I don't want the Mafia 3 story to be interrupted by scavenging for collectibles or climbing radio towers (or their equivalent). I just want a focused, mature game with a strong story.

Agreed.   I'm not looking for a GTA clone.  Keep the story focused
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2015, 03:27:17 PM »

I dunno, I like the vehicles and driving in that world and I think it helps set the mood a lot, but I can't stand a bunch of "walk and talk" missions that just force you to drive around and listen to some guy jabber on.  Drive to this part of town, talk to a guy, now drive to that part of town...

If they have the open world streets I would hope it's put to better use than a dozen "drive really slowly across town" missions.  And I don't think I'm the only one that feels that way, I remember that being a consistent criticism of Mafia 2.

Also, "making better use of the open world" doesn't mean there need to be towers to climb or anything like that at all.
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2015, 03:39:36 PM »

Mafia 1 and 2 are two of my favorite games even with some issues.  Both had an interesting open world that was mostly fun to explore even though there wasn't a great reason to beyond sight seeing.  Mafia 2 had posters which you could collect (and had to for the 100%/platinum) you could skip them. 
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2015, 07:00:59 PM »

Sweet! Mafia 2 was great! My only wish is that they use the Mafia to a better extent. I mean, I loved the story, but at the same time, I never quite felt like there was any moving up the ranks. It would be great if you could start low on the ranks and eventually be able to have your own crew and take them on missions with you.

For that matter, I'd love to see the original Mafia remastered and re-released. It's not on Steam.
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 07:21:57 PM »

Quote from: Rumpy on July 28, 2015, 07:00:59 PM

Sweet! Mafia 2 was great! My only wish is that they use the Mafia to a better extent. I mean, I loved the story, but at the same time, I never quite felt like there was any moving up the ranks. It would be great if you could start low on the ranks and eventually be able to have your own crew and take them on missions with you.

That's not what the Mafia stories are about though, and not what happens in the movies these games are inspired by.
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2015, 07:30:28 PM »

Yeah, but from a gameplay point of view, I found it to be an element that it was lacking on. I mean, he was kind of just there. You never really got a sense that he mattered.  Games should leverage the unseen. We always hear about them going up through the ranks and gameplay is a good way to show that. It would also help give more purpose to the open world.
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2015, 09:38:25 PM »

What ranks are we talking about here? As far as I'm aware, the progression represented in the Mafia games is: Civilian -> Soldier -> Made Man / Captain. There's not much else I can think of, and the games already show this progression through the story.
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Rumpy
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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 01:47:37 AM »

Well, that's the thing. I never once felt like there was any real progression, which is a disappointment  I have with the story in general. In terms of character growth, sure. But I never felt like he was getting more powerful or more respected within the organization. It just felt like he was a peon all the way through. I still liked the story though. I just think they could have given him more responsibilities as he went up the ranks gaining more respect and favor, opening up new mission types by having a crew,  and possibly splintering off. That's something I'd like to see in the next game.
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2015, 02:52:24 AM »

Quote from: Rumpy on July 29, 2015, 01:47:37 AM

Well, that's the thing. I never once felt like there was any real progression, which is a disappointment  I have with the story in general. In terms of character growth, sure. But I never felt like he was getting more powerful or more respected within the organization. It just felt like he was a peon all the way through. I still liked the story though. I just think they could have given him more responsibilities as he went up the ranks gaining more respect and favor, opening up new mission types by having a crew,  and possibly splintering off. That's something I'd like to see in the next game.

This is pretty much exactly what the Godfather game is, if you haven't played it.

While we're on the topic, I finished up Mafia today. I don't know if this was just a case of "you had to be there", but this was one of the worst games I've ever played. Clunky controls, unsatisfying gunplay, a sim-like driving model that for 80% of missions only served to artificially lengthen the game, glitches that failed missions, missions you could get stuck in permanently if you didn't do exactly what the game wanted, and to top it off a final boss who had x-ray vision and 100% accuracy. Even the story, which was maybe the one good thing about the game, had dumb issues like the way the main character's love life was made out to be very important by the consigliere, but his girlfriend was shown in one mission, then never shown again. An off hand comment was made about him getting married and then later having child who is never shown.

I'm so surprised that people look back on this game so fondly. Maybe game mechanics have changed so much that there are some games you just can't go back to.
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2015, 04:56:55 AM »

I think it may have a good sheen of nostalgia over the top of the flaws.  I certainly have forgotten a few of them about Mafia 2 that have come to light while watching a streamer play through that one.  For example, the checkpoints are so badly spaced and arbitrary that you can lose hours for small and stupid deaths.  One mission in particular pits you against 2 dozen enemies, half of whom are entrenched and throwing molotov cocktails.  The insult comes after you finish the mission.  To advance the next mission, you needed to pay a character 10's of thousands of dollars.  If you had not saved up for this surprise payout, your options to raise enough cash were limited to robbing the few and sparse stores, along with the associated cost of changing clothes and risk of death, or farming cars for the scrap crusher.  You did this without so much as a checkpoint from the beginning of the mission, before the shootout. 

I saw a player spend an hour getting the shootout down enough to beat it, only to die to a random carjack victim who put up a fight after grinding cars to meet the payout for an extra 45 minutes. 

This section was so bad I remember almost rage quitting after playing it on hard, and that was without the money grind afterwards. 
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 12:32:06 PM »

Quote from: Teggy
I'm so surprised that people look back on this game so fondly. Maybe game mechanics have changed so much that there are some games you just can't go back to.

I think there have been too many open world games since then that have improved upon that stuff. When that game came out, open world games were really rare. You had GTA 3 and that's about it. A lot of the open world games we think of as classics like Saint's Row, The Godfather, Assassin's Creed, etc. were still 4-5 years away. It was really ahead of its time.

It's similar to EverQuest - I have nothing but fond memories about that game. However, there is no way in this day and age I'd go back to XP loss on death, corpse runs, no quests (just grind mobs for XP), etc.  







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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2015, 01:06:14 PM »

Quote from: Caine on August 03, 2015, 04:56:55 AM

I think it may have a good sheen of nostalgia over the top of the flaws.  I certainly have forgotten a few of them about Mafia 2 that have come to light while watching a streamer play through that one.  For example, the checkpoints are so badly spaced and arbitrary that you can lose hours for small and stupid deaths.  One mission in particular pits you against 2 dozen enemies, half of whom are entrenched and throwing molotov cocktails.  The insult comes after you finish the mission.  To advance the next mission, you needed to pay a character 10's of thousands of dollars.  If you had not saved up for this surprise payout, your options to raise enough cash were limited to robbing the few and sparse stores, along with the associated cost of changing clothes and risk of death, or farming cars for the scrap crusher.  You did this without so much as a checkpoint from the beginning of the mission, before the shootout. 

I saw a player spend an hour getting the shootout down enough to beat it, only to die to a random carjack victim who put up a fight after grinding cars to meet the payout for an extra 45 minutes. 

This section was so bad I remember almost rage quitting after playing it on hard, and that was without the money grind afterwards. 

Interesting. I must have sailed through that somehow. I don't remember any of those tough spots in Mafia 2. I remember quite a few in the first game. The infamous car race, the parking garage shootout, the airport. Here's hoping in 2015 they put in save anywhere.
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2015, 07:32:35 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on August 03, 2015, 12:32:06 PM

Quote from: Rumpy
I'm so surprised that people look back on this game so fondly. Maybe game mechanics have changed so much that there are some games you just can't go back to.

I think there have been too many open world games since then that have improved upon that stuff. When that game came out, open world games were really rare. You had GTA 3 and that's about it. A lot of the open world games we think of as classics like Saint's Row, The Godfather, Assassin's Creed, etc. were still 4-5 years away. It was really ahead of its time.

It's similar to EverQuest - I have nothing but fond memories about that game. However, there is no way in this day and age I'd go back to XP loss on death, corpse runs, no quests (just grind mobs for XP), etc. 

You know, that's so very true. Even though you misattributed the quote to me slywink But yeah, there wasn't as many open-world games back when the first one came out.

Teggy, I'd love to check out that Godfather game, but I don't see it available on Steam.

And anyway, I think what I'm saying is that I wish this sequel would expand on the game mechanics.
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2015, 07:52:35 PM »

Sorry Rumpy, wrote that before coffee.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2015, 08:14:10 PM »

No biggie. Happens to the best of us smile
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2015, 08:30:45 PM »

Quote from: Rumpy on August 03, 2015, 07:32:35 PM


Teggy, I'd love to check out that Godfather game, but I don't see it available on Steam.



Looks like it was removed some time ago and wasn't put on Origin. Your best bet would be 360 or PS3 or even Wii/WiiU if you have one of those consoles.
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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2015, 08:56:18 PM »

The original Mafia's gameplay was criticized even when the game was brand new. It didn't matter all that much though. Most people were more focused on what was, at that time, a groundbreaking story (and way to tell it) in games, and the unique setting.

There was also freedom to solve problems with creativity, which was very appealing. Just ask people how they deal with the car chase at the very beginning of the game, and you'll get a million unique stories. I did it by locking into the other car's side and pushing it, at high speed, into an oncoming tram. I never expected the game to actually understand what had happened, but it did, and it was enormously impressive.
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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2015, 05:41:24 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on August 03, 2015, 08:30:45 PM

Quote from: Rumpy on August 03, 2015, 07:32:35 PM


Teggy, I'd love to check out that Godfather game, but I don't see it available on Steam.



Looks like it was removed some time ago and wasn't put on Origin. Your best bet would be 360 or PS3 or even Wii/WiiU if you have one of those consoles.

Looks like I might have to get myself a copy on Amazon for the PS3 if I can find it.


Heh, speaking of getting around problems, in Mafia 2, you have that warehouse ambush by the docks. If you enter the warehouse, the script has it locking you in with no way of getting out. But bizzarely, you can trip up the game and prevent that script from triggering by driving a car into the water. Then the door remains open and it becomes much easier.

I agree that the checkpoint system needed work. It sometimes even put you in awkward situations by saving it at points when you were being attacked and low on health. I think part of the problem is that it more or less had a shooter mentality which happened to have an open world, where typically don't allow you to save anywhere, perhaps because of the complexity of open worlds? But a game like this, with the approach it took I think needed it, or at the very least it needed more checkpoints. At the very least, more degree of control would have been appreciated.
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« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2015, 10:17:27 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 03, 2015, 08:56:18 PM


There was also freedom to solve problems with creativity, which was very appealing. Just ask people how they deal with the car chase at the very beginning of the game, and you'll get a million unique stories. I did it by locking into the other car's side and pushing it, at high speed, into an oncoming tram. I never expected the game to actually understand what had happened, but it did, and it was enormously impressive.

Yes, but if you don't flip the switches right at the shipping yard and send the tanker off in the wrong direction you are stuck in that mission and the game doesn't inform you in any way.
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2015, 02:37:40 PM »

And for those (like me) that missed the edited addition of the trailer above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMxHfIxQfc
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 03:10:59 PM »

Twitch had an interview with the head developer. 

So, you play as Lincoln Clay, an African American Vietnam veteran, in 1968.  You are going to war with the Italian mob after they take out your adopted family. 

* Car takedowns
* Improved stealth
* Building your own empire
* Play your own lieutenants against themselves
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 06:45:17 PM »

Oh wow, I was hoping it would be set in New Orleans as I've mentioned in the past. biggrin

And it does look to have a lot of what I was hoping for.

Also.... Vito?? Sure looks like him, grey temples and all.

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« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 08:14:40 PM »

It's been a while since I played these games. Who's Vito?
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« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2015, 08:25:07 PM »

Vito Scaletta, Mafia II's main character.

http://mafiagame.wikia.com/wiki/Vito_Scaletta


And the wiki says this:
Quote
New Orleans

In 1968 - seventeen years after killing Carlo Falcone - a 43-year-old Vito is now residing in New Orleans and teams up with Lincoln Clay along with 2 others for control of the city when a powerful crime lord has control over them. Much of Vito's life since 1951 (and his relationship with the Vinci crime family, or the aftermath of Joe's possible demise) is yet to be specified, but is has been revealed that he has since served another stint in prison and now lives a mundane, shabby life, working in a fish restaurant overlooking the city's marina.
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« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2015, 05:38:35 PM »

So more details emerged in a live stream today:

You can interrogate rival mob members in your car and get the option to spare or take them out after they spill their guts. 
Your lieutenants can have some useful side abilities (Ex: Burke can call off cops in pursuit)

Gameplay discussion
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« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2015, 06:21:35 PM »

Very interesting. I wonder if your crew will gain experience allowing you to upgrade their skills?

The more I hear about it, the better it sounds. It sounds like they've given the world more purpose by making exploration reveal places like hideouts that you can clear out. A bit of RDR in that.

Out of all games from this event, I think this is the one I'm looking forward to the most.
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« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2015, 10:01:08 PM »

I've finished Mafia II and it was a much more pleasant experience. It's basically the first game with much better driving and shooting, and of course graphics. They did their best to make it feel like a Scorsese gangster movie and really hit the mark at times.

I know exactly what happened to Caine now as well. I actually almost made the same mistake but got killed during the first robbery I attempted while starting to raise the money. After fighting through the mission and killing the target, there is a really quick message in the top left of the screen that says to search his office. It shows up once and never again. If you leave, all it says on the screen is to do robberies or steal cars. If you go to his office, you get pretty much the entire sum of money you need save for about $2000, which you can get by crushing 3 or 4 cars. Why they don't just give you the entire amount is beyond me. Maybe because they realized that at that point in the game there had been no reason to rob stores or steal cars and they wanted the guys who programmed that stuff to feel good.

There are still a few things about the game I hope they tweak in the third entry. There was still a lot of useless driving. For example, at the end of a lot of missions they just tell you to go home and go to sleep. They should give you the option to just warp there if you don't want to drive. Especially since there is very little to do in the town. There are no real side activities, just clothes shops, repair shops, gas stations, gun shops and the completely unexplained phone booths. I never even used a gun shop because it was easy to pick up guns as you went on missions.

They should also just get rid of the traffic stops. You can get pulled over for speeding or for hitting a police car. In the first game you could get pulled over for running a red light, but in this game you just get scolded by your passenger if you have one. There's no real point to this. If you get seen with a gun or robbing a car, I get it, but simulating driving laws in this arbitrary way is kind of silly.

Overall I had a good time with it, though. The way they referenced the first game was great as well. I hope they just work on these little nitpicks and the game should be really good.
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« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2015, 11:08:31 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on August 06, 2015, 10:01:08 PM

I've finished Mafia II and it was a much more pleasant experience. It's basically the first game with much better driving and shooting, and of course graphics. They did their best to make it feel like a Scorsese gangster movie and really hit the mark at times.

I know exactly what happened to Caine now as well. I actually almost made the same mistake but got killed during the first robbery I attempted while starting to raise the money. After fighting through the mission and killing the target, there is a really quick message in the top left of the screen that says to search his office. It shows up once and never again. If you leave, all it says on the screen is to do robberies or steal cars. If you go to his office, you get pretty much the entire sum of money you need save for about $2000, which you can get by crushing 3 or 4 cars. Why they don't just give you the entire amount is beyond me. Maybe because they realized that at that point in the game there had been no reason to rob stores or steal cars and they wanted the guys who programmed that stuff to feel good.

There are still a few things about the game I hope they tweak in the third entry. There was still a lot of useless driving. For example, at the end of a lot of missions they just tell you to go home and go to sleep. They should give you the option to just warp there if you don't want to drive. Especially since there is very little to do in the town. There are no real side activities, just clothes shops, repair shops, gas stations, gun shops and the completely unexplained phone booths. I never even used a gun shop because it was easy to pick up guns as you went on missions.

They should also just get rid of the traffic stops. You can get pulled over for speeding or for hitting a police car. In the first game you could get pulled over for running a red light, but in this game you just get scolded by your passenger if you have one. There's no real point to this. If you get seen with a gun or robbing a car, I get it, but simulating driving laws in this arbitrary way is kind of silly.

Overall I had a good time with it, though. The way they referenced the first game was great as well. I hope they just work on these little nitpicks and the game should be really good.

While Mafia 2 was fun, I felt like they dumbed down the city atmosphere and driving experiences.
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« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2015, 11:16:42 PM »

Quote from: naednek on August 06, 2015, 11:08:31 PM


While Mafia 2 was fun, I felt like they dumbed down the city atmosphere and driving experiences.

What did you feel they dumbed down? You could actually run out of gas in Mafia 2, which was just silly. You could drive manual in Mafia 1, but the hell if I was going to do that, I just set the cars on automatic and left it there for the whole game smile Both games required you stay under the speed limit and honk to make the braindead pedestrians get out of the way. I don't think either city had much atmosphere - they both seemed pretty dead. They also modeled snow and rain in Mafia 2 - driving in the snow was particularly fun.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the radio stations in Mafia 2 were great, even if they cheated a bit with the time periods (the game ended in 1951 but they played songs that didn't come out until nearly 1960).
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« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2015, 11:46:56 PM »

One of the best things about the game were the physics. The cars felt properly heavy and lumbering for cars of the period. Also really liked how the cars would dirty up the longer you drove them.


As for the traffic stops, I thought it was neat at first, but it quickly grew tiresome.
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« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2015, 02:21:10 AM »

Quote from: Teggy on August 06, 2015, 11:16:42 PM

Quote from: naednek on August 06, 2015, 11:08:31 PM


While Mafia 2 was fun, I felt like they dumbed down the city atmosphere and driving experiences.

What did you feel they dumbed down? You could actually run out of gas in Mafia 2, which was just silly. You could drive manual in Mafia 1, but the hell if I was going to do that, I just set the cars on automatic and left it there for the whole game smile Both games required you stay under the speed limit and honk to make the braindead pedestrians get out of the way. I don't think either city had much atmosphere - they both seemed pretty dead. They also modeled snow and rain in Mafia 2 - driving in the snow was particularly fun.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the radio stations in Mafia 2 were great, even if they cheated a bit with the time periods (the game ended in 1951 but they played songs that didn't come out until nearly 1960).

I felt Mafia 1's city life felt real and atmospheric.  You could tell the developers spent a lot of time to flesh out the city, it felt like Chicago with the trains above you, and the architecture.  When Mafia 1 came out it wasn't common for games to be that detailed.  In Mafia 2 I didn't get that feeling, and it felt bland.  

I loved driving in Mafia 1, I know people didn't like it, and I know the race mission drove people nuts, but I didn't have any problems and driving around town felt like I was in the game.  It was very immersive.
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