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Author Topic: Windows 10 announced  (Read 830 times)
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EngineNo9
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« on: October 01, 2014, 01:09:46 AM »

I wasn't really sure what forum was best for this (Off Topic?  Hardware/Software? Gaming?) so I figured I'd just put it in here since our caring about Windows is mostly about PC gaming.  Mods can feel free to move it as usual.

Anyway, in case you didn't see the news on all the tech sites today, Windows 10 was announced and shown off today for the first time and it's coming in late 2015.

No, you're not going crazy.  You didn't miss Windows 9, they skipped it.  The explanation given in this big announcement/demo video has some garbage about it being "such a big step forward" and all that, but clearly that's all just marketing bullshit. 

The big features here really seem to be that there are no big features.  Start menu?  It's back.  Normal desktop?  It's back.  Live tiles?  Visible in the Start menu.  Windows Store "apps"?  Can now run in a window like any sane person would want.  These are all really good things, but this is basically just what Windows 8 should have been for desktop users from the start.

The feature of setting up multiple desktops might be cool.

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Canuck
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 03:22:22 AM »

I get skipping 9. In German,  "nine" sounds like "no". In Japan, 9 is an unlucky number and finally, if you're moving away from large updates every 4 years to Apple's model of continually updating the same OS do you really want to be stuck on 9 or would you rather have a nice round number like 10?
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Teggy
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 03:42:44 AM »

I had heard they were releasing 9 and it was a free upgrade if you have 8. Or is that 10 now?
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 04:43:18 AM »

I like the unified approach, and after using Office 2013 I think I'm into the design/UI their going for. I don't think it's going to mean anything for gaming, though. Except that the Xbox should get more apps.
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 06:31:48 AM »

Quote from: Teggy on October 01, 2014, 03:42:44 AM

I had heard they were releasing 9 and it was a free upgrade if you have 8. Or is that 10 now?

Yes, people will get Windows 9 for free...

...when it comes out. NEVER! Tongue
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 12:38:59 PM »

This goes back a ways, but Winamp 4 doesn`t exist either (for similar marketing strategies).

It`s better than going to Windows XP2, and at least it`s not Windows ME.

As for the 10, if you really want to bash it, then consider it Windows 1 with 0 added to it. Tongue

I`m looking forward to seeing more programs using the unified development structure. Build 2014 highlighted how simple it is from a dev management issue to create multiplatform apps without having a massive version change. Yeah, there will still be the same programming challenges that any creative team faces, but at least you can have your common assets controlled in a central location through the studio app and be able to create your apps (which includes for non-Windows platforms, depending on the base programming platform).

That`s probably the most responsible thing MS has done in this.

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TiLT
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2014, 01:01:13 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 01, 2014, 12:38:59 PM

This goes back a ways, but Winamp 4 doesn`t exist either (for similar marketing strategies).

And just look at where Winamp is now. Tongue

Also, Leisure Suit Larry 4 doesn't (didn't?) exist since Al Lowe had publicly vowed that there would be no number 4 in that series, and that was turned into a plot point in later games.
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ATB
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2014, 01:09:31 PM »

Windows 7 is still kicking butt.
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2014, 01:17:11 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 01, 2014, 01:01:13 PM

Quote from: Purge on October 01, 2014, 12:38:59 PM

This goes back a ways, but Winamp 4 doesn`t exist either (for similar marketing strategies).

And just look at where Winamp is now. Tongue

Also, Leisure Suit Larry 4 doesn't (didn't?) exist since Al Lowe had publicly vowed that there would be no number 4 in that series, and that was turned into a plot point in later games.

Bought by AOL and it`s programmers were handsomely paid... hardly a fate worse than death.


http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-10-gets-demoed-all-its-glory-joe-belfiore-new-video

I like the fact that they`re incorporating multi-desktop and up to four snaps. I just hope the display section matures for monitor configurations.
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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2014, 03:36:07 PM »

As a Surface user, I am looking forward to its increased awareness of what kind of hardware you are using. Windows 10 will supposedly adapt its interface to how you are using a device (tablet with or without keyboard, laptop, touchscreen, etc). It's still early in development though, so won't be in the initial builds.
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Rumpy
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2014, 05:38:09 PM »

They should totally use this as Windows 10's theme song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1cnJ_pOAdQ
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rittchard
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2014, 09:10:55 PM »

I thought they skipped 9 because people hated 8 so much they wanted to distance themselves further from it.   icon_twisted icon_twisted icon_twisted
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2014, 11:21:48 PM »

So essentially, they've backtracking like they did with the Xbox 1?

I get it though, MS is in an incredibly tough position. They do have the most successful commercial OS in existence. It's hard to press forward when the past is so entrenched.
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2014, 11:51:30 PM »

I've heard that another reason they went with 10 is that this may be the last major traditional release of Windows. Future upgrades will be done incrementally.
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2014, 12:38:07 AM »

I think the real reason they went with 10 is that their original title, Windows Nova, tested poorly in Spanish-speaking countries where the words no va mean "doesn't go."

Then their backup brand, Windows Notable, upset people in English speaking countries where the phrase "no table" was taken to mean there would be no traditional desktop.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2014, 01:21:32 AM »

If this really is the last big Windows revision, they should've gone with the video game & movie reboot strategy and just call it "Windows".
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2014, 03:10:28 AM »

Windows Balboa?
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Teggy
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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2014, 04:25:16 AM »

I just wish Apple had stuck with cats. I like cats.
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« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2014, 06:09:09 AM »

So, they may be skipping Windows 9 because of...lazy coders?:

Quote
When Windows 10 got announced, there was one immediately glaring question: Why Windows 10? Maybe for the extra distance from 8, but a Redditor who claims to be a Microsoft dev has a better—and funnier—answer. The name "Windows 9" could break a whole bunch of lazy code.
Code:
Microsoft dev here, the internal rumours are that early testing revealed just how many third party products that had code of the form

if(version.StartsWith("Windows 9"))
{ /* 95 and 98 */
} else {

and that this was the pragmatic solution to avoid that.

If this is true or not I have no idea. But to be frank...I wouldn't be surprised at all. Also explanation of what the code above means and why it's bad is in the link.

EDIT: This link is provided at one point:
https://searchcode.com/?q=if%28version%2Cstartswith%28%22windows+9%22%29

You know what? I do think this is entirely true.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 06:13:53 AM by Destructor » Logged

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Caine
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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2014, 03:26:39 PM »

I think they should have stuck with windows 9 just to F with them. 
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Lee
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2014, 03:49:22 PM »

I despise 8, this can't come soon enough (I thought I just needed to get used to it, that wasn't the case). Anyone jumping on the beta?
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TiLT
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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2014, 03:52:38 PM »

I love things that mess with lazy coders. That's one of the reasons I was so pleased when Windows started forcing access restrictions to the Program Files folder back in Vista, and a huge amount of applications broke as a result, despite the coders having been warned a long time ahead.

If people knew just how many lazy shortcuts developers are putting into their code, they'd get very worried. Some widely used pieces of software use solutions that are likely to break at the slightest change in folder names, localization, Windows version or security setting, and it's entirely the developer's fault for being lazy, or at least ignorant. One of the most common errors of this kind is in localization of applications that use XML files to store data. It's extremely common for such applications to break when used in a European country (if the application was developed in America) or in the US (if developed in Europe) due to the way commas and dots are treated between those two locales, and it's not like this kind of problem isn't very well known to begin with.
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Roman
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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2014, 06:01:19 PM »

heard today the 9 sounds like Nein in German = means NO. And the #9 in japanese is bad luck.
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TiLT
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« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2014, 06:06:08 PM »

Quote from: Roman on October 02, 2014, 06:01:19 PM

heard today the 9 sounds like Nein in German = means NO. And the #9 in japanese is bad luck.

So you read Canuck's post on this page then? slywink
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« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2014, 06:14:11 PM »

crap! No it was on CityTV news this morning. Maybe I should read a little more.............
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2014, 09:35:54 PM »

That's all just a lot of rubbish, obviously.  There are plenty of other ways they could have gone that didn't directly contradict their current naming scheme and confuse everybody for no other reason than marketing.

If they really didn't want to use the number 9 then they should have just given it another name like they did for Windows 2000, or Windows XP, or ME, or NT, or pretty much anything between 95 and before Windows 7. 
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« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2014, 10:25:48 PM »

Windows X? (say that one out loud... maybe X Windows, hmmm)

Windows 2 (in binary)?
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« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2014, 10:30:04 PM »

Quote from: hitbyambulance on October 02, 2014, 10:25:48 PM

Windows X? (say that one out loud... maybe X Windows, hmmm)

Too Apple-y.
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2014, 11:25:10 PM »

Quote from: Lee on October 02, 2014, 10:30:04 PM

Quote from: hitbyambulance on October 02, 2014, 10:25:48 PM

Windows X? (say that one out loud... maybe X Windows, hmmm)

Too Apple-y.

Or too 1999.  Windows X-TREME!!!  Tongue
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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2014, 01:50:00 AM »

Running tech preview.

Enjoying it sofar. Since I've got a Surface Pro 3, looking forward to the Continuum feature.
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« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2014, 04:18:20 PM »

Quote from: Lee on October 02, 2014, 03:49:22 PM

I despise 8, this can't come soon enough (I thought I just needed to get used to it, that wasn't the case). Anyone jumping on the beta?

There is nothing wrong with 8 (once you either update to 8.1 so you don't boot into Metro anymore or you install a replacement Start Menu bar (Classic Start Menu is awesome)). That's all 8 did over 7 - change the UI. And it's something I fixed Day 1 upon installing.

Quote from: Purge on October 03, 2014, 01:50:00 AM

Running tech preview. Enjoying it sofar. Since I've got a Surface Pro 3, looking forward to the Continuum feature.

I'd love to hear more (as I also have a Surface 3). What makes it different and/or better?
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« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2014, 05:05:37 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on October 03, 2014, 04:18:20 PM

There is nothing wrong with 8 (once you either update to 8.1 so you don't boot into Metro anymore or you install a replacement Start Menu bar (Classic Start Menu is awesome)). That's all 8 did over 7 - change the UI. And it's something I fixed Day 1 upon installing.

Maybe, but I shouldn't have to install a mod to fix an OS, or in this case to make it work like Windows 7. I don't mind booting into Metro, that really isn't issue for me (I almost never reboot anyway). What I hate is that I have a huge full screen start menu divided into two sections, metro versions listed first, and then normal apps listed second. I hate that there are two versions of software and that I have to play with defaults to get the right one to open as default. I never ever want the gimped metro version of something to open, but it seems every program defaults to this. This is all fixable, but I shouldn't have to fix it. Windows 7 worked fine, just give me that.
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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2014, 06:07:45 PM »

2013 April fools joke about skipping Windows 9.

Quote
If you've been looking forward to Windows 9, the OS that will fix what Windows 8 got wrong, you're in for a surprise: There will be no Windows 9. Instead, Microsoft announced it will proceed directly to Windows 10.

"The Windows 9 internal beta was a phenomenal success," said Microsoft PR rep Cheryl Tunt. "I mean, it blew Windows 8 out of the water, and as we all know, Windows 8 is nigh flawless. After discussion at the C level, Microsoft has decided it will not mess with success and will leave Windows 9 exactly as it is. As such, work is now getting under way on Windows 10, which should see a public release."
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« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2014, 07:42:49 PM »

Windows 10, in contrast, assumes apps should not be full-screen, which as an owner of a touch-enabled device is a little annoying.

Was using Video yesterday to watch We Are The Millers, and I had to go to the ellipses at the top left and change the setting.

Continuum isn't available yet, but it basically detects your Table PC mode - if you have a keyboard in use (IE connected and usable) it will default to desktop, but if it is disconnected or folded back, it will then use the full start menu.
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« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2014, 07:56:41 PM »

I wish they would move away from the single-colored tile design Microsoft seems to love so much. I get why it's practical for phones and tablets, but on a PC or console it just ends up looking ugly. Windows 7 was a good example of how to design an attractive OS, while Windows 8 is an eyesore unless you install third-party software that overrides the user interface, and even that can't bring it back to those same heights.
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« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2014, 12:51:28 AM »

Windows 8, from a design perspective, was a complete hit. It bravely took us away from shit like rolodexs and 3.5" floppy icons (both devices are irrelevant as anything other than old references to modern function).

Look it up - massive accolades from a visual design perspective - regardless of whether the function was ideally suited to 90+% of their business at the time (non-touch enabled devices).

Sofar I'm enjoying 10. 8.1 was a step in the right direction, and if they manage to get their store to sell desktop apps as well as native windows apps, it could be a tipping point.

I sure hope they have a newer take on the tiles though (keep in mind the 10 is a tech preview, where function is being tested over the visual updates they may bring about).
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« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2014, 01:26:00 AM »

Quote from: Purge on October 05, 2014, 12:51:28 AM

Windows 8, from a design perspective, was a complete hit. It bravely took us away from shit like rolodexs and 3.5" floppy icons (both devices are irrelevant as anything other than old references to modern function).

Look it up - massive accolades from a visual design perspective - regardless of whether the function was ideally suited to 90+% of their business at the time (non-touch enabled devices).

Sofar I'm enjoying 10. 8.1 was a step in the right direction, and if they manage to get their store to sell desktop apps as well as native windows apps, it could be a tipping point.

I sure hope they have a newer take on the tiles though (keep in mind the 10 is a tech preview, where function is being tested over the visual updates they may bring about).
What does Windows 8 use for a save icon now?
Does it matter if it was a complete hit if almost everyone hates it? Does that mean that most people have terrible taste when it comes to design?
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« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2014, 04:25:19 AM »

Quote from: Purge on October 05, 2014, 12:51:28 AM

...and if they manage to get their store to sell desktop apps as well as native windows apps, it could be a tipping point.

First they need to clear out all the garbage, create some sort of approval process, and then maybe it will be useable. From what I have read, the store is so bad that no one uses it. Did they clean it up for 10 or something?
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