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Author Topic: Borderlands - Reviews, impressions and discussions  (Read 20426 times)
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Thin_J
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« Reply #200 on: October 24, 2009, 10:16:49 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on October 24, 2009, 09:49:08 PM

However, I'll say this right now, the Soldier's turret kind of sucks.  It doesn't last nearly long enough.  While it's up it's useful since it does stuff like heal (which I put all 5 points in to) but the gun does only okay damage, the shield around the gun doesn't go high enough to completely block shots while crouched behind it.

I like it well enough, but I've been devoting points to the abilities like the one where killing an enemy cuts time off the cooldown for the turret so I can throw it more often.
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« Reply #201 on: October 25, 2009, 12:03:14 AM »

the soldier's turret is awesome slywink

Mine currently shoots bursts of 13 shots for 100+ damage each and the cooldown is quite fast as well.  I think if it lasted any longer it wouldn't be nearly as effective overall since the cooldown doesn't seem to start until it goes away.  Many fights we've killed everything and moved on before the turret is down.
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« Reply #202 on: October 25, 2009, 05:21:05 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 24, 2009, 09:38:46 PM

Quote from: Devil on October 24, 2009, 09:23:30 PM

Best Buy Sale = IN!

See you guys next week!!!

so, who had 5 posts or under to IN! in the pool? Tongue

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« Reply #203 on: October 25, 2009, 12:01:42 PM »

I'm wicked tempted to pick this up on 360.  The problem is that I've got the PC version pre-purchased, and that unlocks tomorrow.  I like the PC controls much better than the console controls, want the prettier graphics, and can't sneeze at the $34 price.  Plus my GF might be able to be convinced to pick it up for the PC.

However, everyone here and everyone at work are all playing it on 360.  So the temptation is to pick it up for that as well as the PC version.  Of course, that's a dumb idea because I know damn well that like almost every other MP game, interest is going to die out for this in about a week, and it will disappear completely the day Call of Duty releases.  Still, the temptation is totally there.  Jerks.  Tongue
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« Reply #204 on: October 25, 2009, 03:04:28 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 25, 2009, 12:01:42 PM

I'm wicked tempted to pick this up on 360. 

You really do live in Boston, don't you?
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« Reply #205 on: October 25, 2009, 03:05:57 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on October 25, 2009, 03:04:28 PM

Quote from: Chaz on October 25, 2009, 12:01:42 PM

I'm wicked tempted to pick this up on 360. 

You really do live in Boston, don't you?

Yeah, but the funny thing is that I used to say "wicked" when I was growing up in upstate NY. 
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« Reply #206 on: October 25, 2009, 04:19:30 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 25, 2009, 12:01:42 PM

I'm wicked tempted to pick this up on 360.  The problem is that I've got the PC version pre-purchased, and that unlocks tomorrow.  I like the PC controls much better than the console controls, want the prettier graphics, and can't sneeze at the $34 price.  Plus my GF might be able to be convinced to pick it up for the PC.

However, everyone here and everyone at work are all playing it on 360.  So the temptation is to pick it up for that as well as the PC version.  Of course, that's a dumb idea because I know damn well that like almost every other MP game, interest is going to die out for this in about a week, and it will disappear completely the day Call of Duty releases.  Still, the temptation is totally there.  Jerks.  Tongue

Honestly, I don't see interest disappearing with this title.  There is enough of the random factor here to keep people playing for a long time.  Also, the four characters are different enough in play that people will want to make different characters to play with.
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« Reply #207 on: October 25, 2009, 05:04:04 PM »

Quote from: MaxSteele on October 25, 2009, 04:19:30 PM

Quote from: Chaz on October 25, 2009, 12:01:42 PM

I'm wicked tempted to pick this up on 360.  The problem is that I've got the PC version pre-purchased, and that unlocks tomorrow.  I like the PC controls much better than the console controls, want the prettier graphics, and can't sneeze at the $34 price.  Plus my GF might be able to be convinced to pick it up for the PC.

However, everyone here and everyone at work are all playing it on 360.  So the temptation is to pick it up for that as well as the PC version.  Of course, that's a dumb idea because I know damn well that like almost every other MP game, interest is going to die out for this in about a week, and it will disappear completely the day Call of Duty releases.  Still, the temptation is totally there.  Jerks.  Tongue

Honestly, I don't see interest disappearing with this title.  There is enough of the random factor here to keep people playing for a long time.  Also, the four characters are different enough in play that people will want to make different characters to play with.

Yeah, that's what everyone says, and then within two weeks, something new and shiny comes out, and the vast majority of people move on to something else.  In this case, new and shiny = CoD. 

It's an unfortunate reality on the 360 that multiplayer games have a shelf life of about two minutes.  One of the reasons that I'm going with Borderlands on the PC is that PC gamers generally wind up sticking with games longer than the 360 audience (and I'm not talking about people here specifically, but the entire 360 player base). 
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« Reply #208 on: October 25, 2009, 05:44:50 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 25, 2009, 05:04:04 PM

Quote from: MaxSteele on October 25, 2009, 04:19:30 PM

Quote from: Chaz on October 25, 2009, 12:01:42 PM

I'm wicked tempted to pick this up on 360.  The problem is that I've got the PC version pre-purchased, and that unlocks tomorrow.  I like the PC controls much better than the console controls, want the prettier graphics, and can't sneeze at the $34 price.  Plus my GF might be able to be convinced to pick it up for the PC.

However, everyone here and everyone at work are all playing it on 360.  So the temptation is to pick it up for that as well as the PC version.  Of course, that's a dumb idea because I know damn well that like almost every other MP game, interest is going to die out for this in about a week, and it will disappear completely the day Call of Duty releases.  Still, the temptation is totally there.  Jerks.  Tongue

Honestly, I don't see interest disappearing with this title.  There is enough of the random factor here to keep people playing for a long time.  Also, the four characters are different enough in play that people will want to make different characters to play with.

Yeah, that's what everyone says, and then within two weeks, something new and shiny comes out, and the vast majority of people move on to something else.  In this case, new and shiny = CoD. 

It's an unfortunate reality on the 360 that multiplayer games have a shelf life of about two minutes.  One of the reasons that I'm going with Borderlands on the PC is that PC gamers generally wind up sticking with games longer than the 360 audience (and I'm not talking about people here specifically, but the entire 360 player base). 

luckily, given the way they're pissing off fans of the PC version of CoD:MW2, the interest in the PC version may last longer.
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« Reply #209 on: October 25, 2009, 06:33:17 PM »

i've generally had good use of the turret, but i think i'm going to respec some later on and amp up the damage/rounds it fires.  the elemental damage is pretty awesome when you can get it matched up right.  i had a room full of those elder 'big ass M-F'ers', all level 15 and 16 basically trying to smear my guts onto the cave wall when i dropped a turret down.  it took down two of them at full health and seriously F-ed up a third one, plus gave me enough of a health boost to survive.  it's also the reason i was able to solo the final round of the combat arena against that big ass 19 fire breathing beast, even though i had forgotten to change it's elemental attack, so it actually healed the damn thing. 

found a pretty kick ass weapon last night.  a shotgun 'that shoots F-ing rockets!'  it's sadly not that great as a shotgun though as it's aim is wild.  it did lead to a pretty funny moment though when it missed the raider and instead blew up some container behind him, which actually melted the guy .

i've also seen a bit of the over-leveled combat effect when a level 3 attacked.  with my old regular shotgun, the blast took out his torso and sent both his arms flying back about 30 feet from where his legs were. 
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« Reply #210 on: October 25, 2009, 07:31:42 PM »

Quote from: MaxSteele on October 25, 2009, 04:19:30 PM

Honestly, I don't see interest disappearing with this title.  There is enough of the random factor here to keep people playing for a long time.  Also, the four characters are different enough in play that people will want to make different characters to play with.

There's another factor here, at least for me. Playing in co-op in the last two nights our team blew through a bunch of quests. Since I'm not the most talented of the group  Roll Eyes I tended to end up just running along behind, getting cheap kills and rewards. Then last night I played solo for a while after the co-op, entered an area my group had previously rushed through and wow, I didn't realized how much I had missed.

So while the co-op may not have the longevity, certainly going back and playing it solo will have some value. I'm at about level 26 and since you can go to level 50 I'm assuming there's a lot more quests to tackle.

I'm playing as a Hunter right now, but am interested in trying as a Soldier. Siren and Berserker, not so much since those don't tend to be my fighting style, but still might be worth a look.
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« Reply #211 on: October 25, 2009, 09:01:03 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 25, 2009, 05:04:04 PM

Quote from: MaxSteele on October 25, 2009, 04:19:30 PM

Quote from: Chaz on October 25, 2009, 12:01:42 PM

I'm wicked tempted to pick this up on 360.  The problem is that I've got the PC version pre-purchased, and that unlocks tomorrow.  I like the PC controls much better than the console controls, want the prettier graphics, and can't sneeze at the $34 price.  Plus my GF might be able to be convinced to pick it up for the PC.

However, everyone here and everyone at work are all playing it on 360.  So the temptation is to pick it up for that as well as the PC version.  Of course, that's a dumb idea because I know damn well that like almost every other MP game, interest is going to die out for this in about a week, and it will disappear completely the day Call of Duty releases.  Still, the temptation is totally there.  Jerks.  Tongue

Honestly, I don't see interest disappearing with this title.  There is enough of the random factor here to keep people playing for a long time.  Also, the four characters are different enough in play that people will want to make different characters to play with.

Yeah, that's what everyone says, and then within two weeks, something new and shiny comes out, and the vast majority of people move on to something else.  In this case, new and shiny = CoD. 

It's an unfortunate reality on the 360 that multiplayer games have a shelf life of about two minutes.  One of the reasons that I'm going with Borderlands on the PC is that PC gamers generally wind up sticking with games longer than the 360 audience (and I'm not talking about people here specifically, but the entire 360 player base). 

Guess we'll just need to disagree, since I can give you examples of multiplayer games that have been out for a long time and still have a high player base.  Enjoy the PC version!
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« Reply #212 on: October 26, 2009, 12:38:41 AM »

Quote from: MaxSteele on October 25, 2009, 09:01:03 PM


Guess we'll just need to disagree, since I can give you examples of multiplayer games that have been out for a long time and still have a high player base.  Enjoy the PC version!

Max, I think he is more talking about GTers here and not random people.  When playing with GTers, we tend to buy lots of games and are constantly moving on.  One great example was Chrome Hounds...it was all anyone played for a little bit, but then something else came out and everyone jumped ship.  When MW2 comes out, I think it will be hard to get a game of this going with other GTers.
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« Reply #213 on: October 26, 2009, 12:53:06 AM »

when MW2 comes out, it might be about all I play for a year smile  (well, some Aion too when I can afford the sub fee)
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« Reply #214 on: October 26, 2009, 02:01:57 AM »

Quote from: The Grue on October 26, 2009, 12:38:41 AM

Quote from: MaxSteele on October 25, 2009, 09:01:03 PM


Guess we'll just need to disagree, since I can give you examples of multiplayer games that have been out for a long time and still have a high player base.  Enjoy the PC version!

Max, I think he is more talking about GTers here and not random people.  When playing with GTers, we tend to buy lots of games and are constantly moving on.  One great example was Chrome Hounds...it was all anyone played for a little bit, but then something else came out and everyone jumped ship.  When MW2 comes out, I think it will be hard to get a game of this going with other GTers.

Yeah, pretty much this, and my friends at work are the same way.  When L4D came out, they were all on the 360, and were talking about it every day.  I waiting on the 360 version since I already had it for PC, but I buckled after a few weeks.  As soon as I got it, there was nobody playing from here or from work.  However, over on the PC, there were people on my friends list playing regularly for months.

There's nothing wrong with that.  I'll be the first one to say that I do the same thing.  I just have to learn to only get one version of MP games, not two.  biggrin
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« Reply #215 on: October 26, 2009, 04:26:05 AM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 26, 2009, 02:01:57 AM

Quote from: The Grue on October 26, 2009, 12:38:41 AM

Quote from: MaxSteele on October 25, 2009, 09:01:03 PM


Guess we'll just need to disagree, since I can give you examples of multiplayer games that have been out for a long time and still have a high player base.  Enjoy the PC version!

Max, I think he is more talking about GTers here and not random people.  When playing with GTers, we tend to buy lots of games and are constantly moving on.  One great example was Chrome Hounds...it was all anyone played for a little bit, but then something else came out and everyone jumped ship.  When MW2 comes out, I think it will be hard to get a game of this going with other GTers.

Yeah, pretty much this, and my friends at work are the same way.  When L4D came out, they were all on the 360, and were talking about it every day.  I waiting on the 360 version since I already had it for PC, but I buckled after a few weeks.  As soon as I got it, there was nobody playing from here or from work.  However, over on the PC, there were people on my friends list playing regularly for months.

There's nothing wrong with that.  I'll be the first one to say that I do the same thing.  I just have to learn to only get one version of MP games, not two.  biggrin

Oh!  Ok.  Sorry, I'll claim newbie GT forum status for the misunderstanding. smile  I know I'm not on your FList, but for me, I only buy a select few titles I know I'm going to play for awhile, and then I get games from Gamefly that I know I'll only play for a month or so and then never touch again.  My "purchase" list for the rest of the year is Dragon Age and Assassin's Creed 2.  Possibly Left 4 Dead 2 as well.
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« Reply #216 on: October 26, 2009, 03:24:45 PM »

For anyone who is discouraged by the gameplay of the Hunter (especially solo), he gets a lot better around 15, and really comes into his own 20-25.  I recommend picking up any skill that helps him kill better or faster, and save the survivability stuff for a second play through.  His pacing starts off really slow, but man does it pick up.  I mow through stuff very fast now. 

Before revolvers start becoming common (15+), I suggest using the best weapon available, especially if you find a good assault rifle.  Some ARs hit for a little less than a sniper rifle, but in fast 3 round bursts.  Having a nice shotgun is good too.  Once you get your hands on a really nice revolver, even without the Gun Crazy skill that gives a 40% chance for a second round to be fired, things will go a lot faster.  I now use a blue revolver with a scope that fires exploding rounds...messy!  Revolvers have some of the highest single target damage of all the guns I've seen.  Imagine firing a revolver bypassing shields completely, firing off a second free round every other shot, while buffed with +40% damage, fast reloads, and + crit damage!   

There are some nice selections in each tree, depending on how you want to play.  At the top of the Sniper skill tree is a shield bypass skill that gives a 100% chance to bypass enemy shields with any weapon used (you don't have to use sniper rifles).  I found Focus (+25% accuracy boost for all weapons -50% sniper rifle sway), Killer (post kill buff for 40% more damage and faster reloading), and the 20% sniper rifle damage really helpful in mowing down baddies and bosses.     

The Gunslinger tree has some nice synergy with the Sniper tree, especially if you like using Sniper rifles and revolvers.  Gun Crazy isn't that noticeable with a repeater (that I saw), but with a revolver it makes a big difference.  I'm planning on maxing out this tree next.  So far so good.

I stayed away from the Rogue tree because I was turned off by the AI on the hawk early in the game.  Sometimes he just flies around, especially in boss fights, and sometimes he kicks ass.  I didn't want to rely on the AI to help me kill.  With that said, now that my Hawk is on fire! (or crackling with lightning), that 6 attacks per flight top of the tree skill looks really nice.   

So if you are concerned by Mordecai's slow pacing, he gets much better...and faster.  I've been playing through the same content with Brick (level 18 now with the +50% post kill damage buff), and Mordecai is faster and safer...because things are dead before they get to him.  Boss fights were about the same between the two classes, until I picked up shield bypass.   
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« Reply #217 on: October 26, 2009, 04:07:17 PM »

Wow, Roguetad, that makes me want to go start up a Mordecai. smile
   
I have been playing Lilith very casually (Demon's Souls still has a lock on most of my gaming time), but I'm having a blast with her. She's only level 12 and I'm just scratching the surface of her skills. I'm going down the Elemental tree and it's great fun watching the baddies burn when the elemental damage kicks in. I've just started with the skill that lets her do elemental damage per second while she's Phasewalking. I love the Phasewalking ability. I can gather enemies together, hit phasewalk, damage them entering, during, and leaving phasewalk, and then clean up what's left. smile
   
I also just found a shopping "deal" for a new shield. It took my shield from 66 to 206 and significantly upgraded my health regen. It cost almost all of my cash, but it was well worth it.
   
Fun, fun, fun!
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« Reply #218 on: October 26, 2009, 04:14:25 PM »

I'm a level 14 soldier now and I'm really enjoying the game thus far (360 version). I haven't found any really kick-ass loot yet, but I like how they are constantly giving you quests to do and there's never a shortage of things to shoot. It would be nice to get in some co-op games with the rest of you who are still playing.
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« Reply #219 on: October 26, 2009, 04:51:43 PM »

yeah, part of the problem is not finding anybody to play with, it's finding anybody in the same level range.  i look and the closest level character is 5 levels above me, pretty much constantly.  it's not that you can't have fun that way (my first mp night was with glycerine, level 12 vs my level 7) but the area's you end up in.  once you get out of the badlands, you get access to a bunch more quests and it limits you unless you have reached that area yourself. 

i really loved the mp saturday night though with doopri.  we both went up more than 10 levels and cleared out a ton of quests. 

assault rifles kick ass btw.  nothing like a 100+ damage, highly accurate burst with a good scope that you can easily target their heads with.  i can take out those big ass bruisers that way no problem, and half the time, they get interrupted by the critical shots, so i can take on the next group without retreating. 

the metal storm is pretty cool too, especially if you get a good class mod and mg.  100+ rounds at 80 damage and as soon as i kill one, it becomes a freaking minigun.  great crowd control.
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« Reply #220 on: October 26, 2009, 05:18:50 PM »

Quote from: Qantaga on October 26, 2009, 04:07:17 PM

Wow, Roguetad, that makes me want to go start up a Mordecai. smile 

Brick is fun too...although I'm trying not to play 2 characters.  The first couple of times I used his berserk ability I kept feeling like something was off, until I realized that Brick is a southpaw!  He jabs with his right, and lands his power punches with his left.  As a RL lefty, I felt like a knucklehead for not figuring that out sooner.  At first I was just alternating right-left-right-left, and my right trigger pull would sometimes fire off a couple of speed jabs.  He can kill most weaker stuff with just a couple of speed jabs with the right.  I seem to get more criticals with heads exploding using the left for power punches.  Has anyone else noticed that Brick is a southpaw boxer?  I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the manual or fluff.

Brick would be awesome if his voiceover was a gruff sounding Brittish thug.   
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« Reply #221 on: October 26, 2009, 06:50:25 PM »

You guys are killing me.  I have an unopened copy sitting at home, and I'm still waiting for my RROD replacement!
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« Reply #222 on: October 26, 2009, 07:41:32 PM »

I'll be IN! tomorrow...
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« Reply #223 on: October 26, 2009, 08:16:01 PM »

i got this,this morning....i am about level 15 Soldier(Roland?)..the missions are pretty cool to do,i was breezing through it until a thief called Bonehead would own me,so i went and did a load of other missions leveled up then went back and kicked his ass

i had the same Sniper rifle pieces mission problem that JZ came across,so i will have to go back and look around that area for the last part...but that rock(next to the red tent) where i thought the last part should of been looked very suspicious as it had grass growing 'through' it..so i thought it was a glitch,LOL

not used to the vehicle controls at all,when i try and reverse i hit LT and blow the living shit out of everything with the rocket launcher


took me awhile also to know that you could sell your weapons as well as buy them at the vending machines icon_confused
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« Reply #224 on: October 26, 2009, 09:12:19 PM »

it's not a problem if levels don't match up.  Just join the game of whoever has the lowest level and while you're knocking stuff out they quite quickly end up all being the same level.  Alternatively if you care more about the levels than the stories, you join the higher level ones and get power levelled very, very quickly.  The first option is probably the best though, because then everyone gets credit for the quests.
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« Reply #225 on: October 26, 2009, 09:18:56 PM »

So now that you gentlemen have spent more time with Borderlands, would you still say the game is lukewarm from a single-player perspective? It seemed like the initial posts leaned heavily toward co-op, with SP being mediocre.
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« Reply #226 on: October 26, 2009, 09:20:18 PM »

It's probably fine for single player, I just don't enjoy single player games.  The game definitely shines when things get chaotic with multiple players and people get downed and you have to revive them.
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« Reply #227 on: October 26, 2009, 09:29:58 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on October 26, 2009, 09:18:56 PM

So now that you gentlemen have spent more time with Borderlands, would you still say the game is lukewarm from a single-player perspective? It seemed like the initial posts leaned heavily toward co-op, with SP being mediocre.

SP is fun as well, you just approach it a bit differently. Since there's only one of you it pays to play slower, not rushing into things, so you have time to make any adjustments in loadout. It's a more contemplative approach.
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« Reply #228 on: October 26, 2009, 09:35:59 PM »

the biggest change i have seen is this.  when you are sp, you can change inventory and heal during fights.  try that during mp and you'll be seeing red in no time smile  very useful when you have boss fights as you can swap out your weapon loadouts for shields/armor and heal up.  obviously, once you get all 4 slots for weapons, it's not as bad, but the ability to heal has saved my butt a few times.
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« Reply #229 on: October 26, 2009, 09:36:27 PM »

I think single player is excellent.  It's just that co-op is super-excellent.

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« Reply #230 on: October 26, 2009, 09:37:08 PM »

gods I need this game...why does every game to be so expensive? Sometimes I wish we were in communist Denmark, where everyone got a piece of everything :-D
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ericb
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« Reply #231 on: October 26, 2009, 09:37:35 PM »

I really like the SP mode and will probably play almost entirely SP for a while.
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Covenant
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« Reply #232 on: October 26, 2009, 09:46:30 PM »

I played SP all weekend and had an insanely fun time.
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Doopri
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« Reply #233 on: October 26, 2009, 09:52:50 PM »

ya single player has been surprisingly robust for me too.  dont get me wrong ive spend an... *ahem* considerable amount of time playing multi but this is probably one of the few multiplayer intensive games where starting to play multi DIDNT totally end my play of single.

and like others have said single player just plays out differently.  deliberate is a great word.  i have time to pick paths, utilize terrain and adjust my attack.  whereas with multi im running, gunning and bragging about the latest phat lutz i just found smile

as a side note - ill probably be on (again smile ) tonight around 10:30 ish EST.  if you see me and want company, shoot an invite!
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Caine
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« Reply #234 on: October 26, 2009, 11:08:49 PM »

that's totally due to the way mp is handled.  in other games, it's either a discrete game mode with different options or a twisted subset of the sp mode.  here, it's just having another person doing the exact same stuff you do, and then giving you a few extras, like all of the mp skills. it just works, both sp and mp.  granted, mp is definitely more fun, but a lot of that is due to the interactions with other people.  covering, saving their bacon, healing, and coordinating weapons against big bosses is why mp is great.  but now that i have spent as much time in sp as in mp, i have to disagree with the early reviews picking at it.  i'm enjoying the hell out of this game, either way.
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #235 on: October 27, 2009, 05:00:28 AM »

Glad to hear that single player aspect is also a winner. I'll probably grab this for the 360 after I complete MagnaCarta 2.
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marcusjm
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« Reply #236 on: October 27, 2009, 11:08:06 AM »

razgon, are you getting the PC version or 360? I was thinking of getting it today.
Might be worth it since metallicorphan also has it though he is probably already level 40 or something smile.
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #237 on: October 27, 2009, 11:21:37 AM »

Quote from: marcusjm on October 27, 2009, 11:08:06 AM

razgon, are you getting the PC version or 360? I was thinking of getting it today.
Might be worth it since metallicorphan also has it though he is probably already level 40 or something smile.


er,level 19 i think(that's from a good 10 hrs play yesterday)...gonna try and hook up with Myto,hoping she isn't too far ahead of me

i am still crap at the car controls-this is me just trying to figure out how to turn round
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLKR9tCiwvA&feature=related
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Razgon
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« Reply #238 on: October 27, 2009, 11:25:30 AM »

Quote from: marcusjm on October 27, 2009, 11:08:06 AM

razgon, are you getting the PC version or 360? I was thinking of getting it today.
Might be worth it since metallicorphan also has it though he is probably already level 40 or something smile.

I fear my laptop cant run this the way I'd like to, so I'm getting it for the 360..probably friday or so, so yeah, MO will be lvl 60 by then ;-)
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marcusjm
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« Reply #239 on: October 27, 2009, 12:27:08 PM »

They have exactly 10 copies left at webhallen so I am counting on you now Razgon slywink.

Maybe metallicorphan can babysit us to his level hehe.

Ok I am in.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 12:36:42 PM by marcusjm » Logged

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