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Author Topic: Borderlands - Reviews, impressions and discussions  (Read 20309 times)
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jztemple2
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« on: October 14, 2009, 02:41:19 AM »

I'm starting this thread to be a collection point for discussions and also for links to online interviews and other content. Feel free to post opinions as well (like I had to say that  slywink)

Here's a Gamasutra interview with Gearbox's Randy Pitchford. Very in-depth.

Some great quotes in there:
Quote
I think dialogue trees frankly are boring as shit. I think that the idea of like reading a few paragraphs and then picking one of three responses, and then based on that I get a few more paragraphs or one paragraph or whatever it is, and then I have more choice, and I've got to get to the right path to get to the object I need or get the door to open or whatever. If I play the flowchart wrong, I start it over, and it's like the character gets clever and they kind of change a few things, but it's still the same path.

Most of the time, it's the exact same stuff. I'm doing the exact same conversation again because it's so expensive to create that content and there's so much of it. You know what? I don't understand the fun in that, frankly. I just think that's boring and slow. Maybe that's why I like shooters so much. We don't have any of that crap in Borderlands.

Quote
Yeah. I think with Borderlands, the trick is: what do you want? There's always a mainline mission path, and you can follow it. When you follow it, we take care of you. But if you want to get off that, you can. Usually, that's rewarded with something, something unique that you might have found that you discovered somewhere, some new mission path, some optional mission path for example, or some new pocket of bad guys or creatures that have something of some value, or just some interesting part of the world or a shortcut to a different part of the world.

Quote
We made a very clear decision at one point that the motives of our character should be supported by the optional things. So, we made our heroes fortune hunters, and there's a lot of ways to earn a fortune. They're motivated by profit -- and they're not like evil fortune hunters. They're not like mercenaries. They're like Indiana Jones.

Quote
BS: You mentioned earlier that you could go back and defeat enemies from before and be more powerful.

RP: Yeah. I hate when an RPG says, "Here's a game where you can level up. By the way, we're going to level up the world, too", so your leveling means nothing." Like, "Dude, I want to get to level 50, and I want to go back to the Level 5 area, and I just want to own the shit out of everything. I want to look at them and have them explode. I want to be super badass. I want to one-shot everything."

Quote
BS: The enemy thing is still interesting to me, because it seems like most RPGs now are leveling enemies parallel to your levels.

RP: I think it's a terrible mistake. I don't know why they do that. I personally think World of Warcraft got it right. In the level 1 area, if I go back there at level 20, I can just [makes killing noises]. I know I'm powerful.

You know what feels great? If you reach the level cap, which I think now is 80, go into the Dead Mines, which is one of the lowest level instances in the world, and you can like pull the entire instance and just [makes killing noise], and you just feel like the biggest badass. And you look badass. You've got this incredible gear and sick weapons with shit glowing on them. You can just go in there and just own all the stuff. You feel like a god to them, and you are, and you're supposed to be because you've reached that level. I think that's great. That's part of what drives us there.

Remember Mario Kart? When you're playing multiplayer, do you actually feel good about the fact that you're ahead, but because the other guys are behind, the game cheats and makes him drive faster?

BS: Yeah, rubber banding. Not so much.

RP: I fucking hate that. I understand why they do it, especially in the multiplayer context, but in the single-player game? Dude, I'm winning, so fuck you. But if I'm behind in single-player, sure, give me a boost, give me some help. But if I'm in front, let me dominate. Let me own this because that's where I am. That's how good I am.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 01:52:29 AM by jztemple2 » Logged

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denoginizer
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 04:10:03 PM »


Quote
I think dialogue trees frankly are boring as shit. I think that the idea of like reading a few paragraphs and then picking one of three responses, and then based on that I get a few more paragraphs or one paragraph or whatever it is, and then I have more choice, and I've got to get to the right path to get to the object I need or get the door to open or whatever. If I play the flowchart wrong, I start it over, and it's like the character gets clever and they kind of change a few things, but it's still the same path.

Most of the time, it's the exact same stuff. I'm doing the exact same conversation again because it's so expensive to create that content and there's so much of it. You know what? I don't understand the fun in that, frankly. I just think that's boring and slow. Maybe that's why I like shooters so much. We don't have any of that crap in Borderlands.

I like this one.  I hate long dialogue trees.  Especially in co-op focused games.

This game reminds me a little bit of Hellgate London.  Except it is more of a shooter with RPG elements instead of an RPG with shooter elements.  Hopefully the execution in Borderlands is much better than Hellgate.  I am looking forward to trying it.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 04:15:36 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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jztemple2
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 09:40:28 PM »

I just hope the SP campaign isn't compromised for co-op play, since solo is the way I tend to roll  icon_biggrin.

Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising seems to me to be a game that might actually work in co-op, but in solo mode with three brain-challenged AI team mates it's a pain in the ass. This is what I want to avoid.
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2009, 09:53:31 PM »

It's like Diablo guys, if you go through solo it will spawn the appropriate difficulty and number of enemies, if you're in co-op it will spawn some more enemies and some of them will be more difficult.
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 09:57:59 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on October 14, 2009, 04:10:03 PM


This game reminds me a little bit of Hellgate London.  Except it is more of a shooter with RPG elements instead of an RPG with shooter elements.  Hopefully the execution in Borderlands is much better than Hellgate.  I am looking forward to trying it.


I was thinking this exact thing this morning.
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2009, 10:45:06 PM »

Quote
I want to look at them and have them explode.

That pretty much defines my goal in life.
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jztemple2
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2009, 11:50:37 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on October 14, 2009, 09:53:31 PM

It's like Diablo guys, if you go through solo it will spawn the appropriate difficulty and number of enemies, if you're in co-op it will spawn some more enemies and some of them will be more difficult.

I never played Diablo, so I wasn't aware of that. Sounds like it will be a good gameplay mechanic.
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2009, 03:18:03 AM »

I am watching the ultimate Fighter on Spike and the Borderlands Commercial came on and said its available in stores NOW.. so I did what any supprise person will do, I rewind to make sure I heard correctly and sure enough it said "available in stores NOW" So is this a fuck up on 2k, Spike or is there some sort of early release on this game?
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2009, 03:29:49 AM »

Could be the commercial was just scheduled in a bit early, but then my Gamestop never breaks street date so it just might be sour grapes on my part.
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2009, 05:16:31 AM »

I just watched a few videos for this and... WOW. THey really nailed the atmosphere and visual style. Love the cel-shaded graphics and it looks great in motion. I have my doubts about the gameplay, however. Gearbox has yet to really hit one out of the park, and I have this uncomfortable feeling that this will end up being another Too Human, with repeated environments and bland gameplay.

Hope I'm wrong though. Can't wait for the reviews.

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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 03:53:26 AM »

GiantBomb posted a 30-minute Quick Look at Borderlands, first showing off some early game 4-player co-op, and then loading up a Level 38 character starting a second playthrough to look at some of the more advanced features.  Nothing at all plot related.  The crew seemed pretty enthusiastic about it, enough that I'd predict a 4/5 score.

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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 10:21:47 AM »

You IN or Out, AA?
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2009, 11:56:35 AM »

IN...PC
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2009, 06:53:02 PM »

Sweet! The Gearbox guys are going to be at my Gamestop...  Signed copy!!!!
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2009, 07:23:10 PM »

first the websensation, your-gamestop-only exclusive ps3 forza 3, now this!?!?! how do you have the best gamestop ever?
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2009, 07:24:10 PM »

Quote from: Doopri on October 16, 2009, 07:23:10 PM

first the websensation, your-gamestop-only exclusive ps3 forza 3, now this!?!?! how do you have the best gamestop ever?

*shrug* It's Texas.  We don't do things by halves here.
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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2009, 07:29:44 PM »

Ugh, it's cell shaded?  Out.

It's one thing to look like a videogame, but for me cell shading is too "cartoonish", especially for a shooter.  It takes me completely out of the immersion and there's far less satisfaction in defeating cartoon enemies versus "real" ones.  I feel no sense of danger from cartoon enemies, no matter how powerful or menacing they're supposed to be.  The gameplay could be absolutely stellar, but the big picture just doesn't work for me. 

I was pretty interested in the title based upon interviews and buzz, but the cell-shaded presentation ruined it for me.
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« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2009, 07:56:25 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on October 16, 2009, 07:29:44 PM

Ugh, it's cell shaded?  Out.

It's one thing to look like a videogame, but for me cell shading is too "cartoonish", especially for a shooter.  It takes me completely out of the immersion and there's far less satisfaction in defeating cartoon enemies versus "real" ones.  I feel no sense of danger from cartoon enemies, no matter how powerful or menacing they're supposed to be.  The gameplay could be absolutely stellar, but the big picture just doesn't work for me. 

I was pretty interested in the title based upon interviews and buzz, but the cell-shaded presentation ruined it for me.

If it wasn't for the outline of the guy on the left, I couldn't tell it's cell shaded. 
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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2009, 08:17:38 PM »

Wasn't there a entire thread here just dedicated to the fact that it wasn't cell shaded?  icon_confused
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« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2009, 08:23:18 PM »

i think it had to do with some technical aspect as to why it isnt cell shaded.  but it sure LOOKS exactly like its cell shaded.

to quote futurama: "you are technically correct.  the best kind of correct."

and i usually hate cell shaded (looking!) games too.  its usually a turn off for me.  here it seems like they did a nice job of it and i think it adds to the atmosphere theyre trying to create. i just HOPE my other fear doesnt come into play... (i sometimes get this weird nagging headache when playing cell shaded games, but thats more with games that have characters moving on backgrounds that arent cell shaded, or that look like they are cutouts moving on the backgrounds)
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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2009, 08:29:54 PM »

I'm glad the art style doesn't look shitty. I don't know why people hate on it. I would've never paid attention if this was shitty-brown-black-unreal-boring ass-space clone-number 02842084230

no thanks, keep your crappy ass gears games away from me, please.
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« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2009, 08:41:14 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on October 16, 2009, 08:29:54 PM

I'm glad the art style doesn't look shitty. I don't know why people hate on it. I would've never paid attention if this was shitty-brown-black-unreal-boring ass-space clone-number 02842084230

no thanks, keep your crappy ass gears games away from me, please.

Exactly!  A friend who I play a lot of co-op games with keeps bugging me to pick up Gears 2 and I tell him that I couldn't stand playing Gears 1 because it was one grey/brown blob shooting at another grey/brown blob, lather, rinse, repeat so why would I want to get more of the same?
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« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2009, 08:48:18 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on October 16, 2009, 07:29:44 PM

It's one thing to look like a video game, but for me cell shading is too "cartoonish", especially for a shooter.  
I'd say it looks "illustrated" rather than cartoonish. smile

With MW2 out a month later, I can't blame you for missing this no matter how awesome it may be.  I'm in, though, I love the look. Reminds of me a modern graphic novel look.
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« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2009, 08:50:28 PM »

Pete,

 Here's a good video of gameplay.  I'm more turned off by the flying numbers than I am the art-style.


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« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2009, 08:53:58 PM »

Quote from: TK-421 on October 16, 2009, 08:41:14 PM

Quote from: jersoc on October 16, 2009, 08:29:54 PM

I'm glad the art style doesn't look shitty. I don't know why people hate on it. I would've never paid attention if this was shitty-brown-black-unreal-boring ass-space clone-number 02842084230

no thanks, keep your crappy ass gears games away from me, please.

Exactly!  A friend who I play a lot of co-op games with keeps bugging me to pick up Gears 2 and I tell him that I couldn't stand playing Gears 1 because it was one grey/brown blob shooting at another grey/brown blob, lather, rinse, repeat so why would I want to get more of the same?

They are going for a more realistic look just like Fallout 3 which uses a very limited colour palette.  Personal preference I guess but I also like the realistic look rather than the cell shaded look which seems to be unable to make up it's mind whether it wants to be a cartoon or reality.  I'm fine with games that are fully anime looking cartoons.  Just don't like the in-between states I guess.
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« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2009, 08:57:36 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on October 16, 2009, 08:29:54 PM

I'm glad the art style doesn't look shitty. I don't know why people hate on it. I would've never paid attention if this was shitty-brown-black-unreal-boring ass-space clone-number 02842084230

no thanks, keep your crappy ass gears games away from me, please.

Just to clarify.  Are you saying that Borderlands looks better graphically than Gears 2?

I understand graphics are subjective and all that.  But come on !!!
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« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2009, 09:50:47 PM »

He might not, but I'm going to come out and say I think the overall look of Borderlands more than both Gears games, and Halo Games.

Say what you want about the technical aspects of the graphics tech.  Borderlands looks better via art direction and good use of what they have.
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« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2009, 10:18:49 PM »

Quote from: Bob on October 16, 2009, 08:50:28 PM

Pete,

 Here's a good video of gameplay.  I'm more turned off by the flying numbers than I am the art-style.


Thanks for posting that. I only watched about six minutes because they started talking about campaign specific info and I didn't want to spoil it for myself.

Cel-shading certainly looks different that what I am used to, but nothing that bothered me. Kind of interesting actually. All the floating numbers are kind of cool, letting the player know how effective his fire is right away. I guess I like that techie, "I've got an embedded HUD in my eye" look to a game. I'm coming off replaying Bioshock and while I like that clean, very realistic look as well, I'm ok either way.

Co-op sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe I'll see some of you folks out there online next week!
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« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2009, 11:53:10 PM »

Read somewhere that the damage numbers can be turned off in the options.
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« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2009, 03:51:26 AM »

Quote from: jersoc on October 16, 2009, 08:29:54 PM

I'm glad the art style doesn't look shitty. I don't know why people hate on it. I would've never paid attention if this was shitty-brown-black-unreal-boring ass-space clone-number 02842084230

no thanks, keep your crappy ass gears games away from me, please.

It's not about looking "shitty", it's about looking like a Charles Schwab investment commercial or Saturday morning cartoons (at least back when cartoons were decent).

Gears was "shitty-brown-black-unreal-boring ass-space clone-number blah blah blah"?  Actually, the detail in both Gears and Gears 2 was rather impressive, and do you honestly expect a war-ravaged environment to mimic the Gummi Bears cartoon?  Perhaps this is more your speed

And a big " icon_wink " because I'm not upset with anyone, I just find cell shading to look too cartoonish for a shooter.  Some are okay with it, but for me it just doesn't work.  I want games to have more detail and a more realistic look.  If that means a more limited color palette then fine, because games like Crackdown and Borderlands, regardless of gameplay, look too much like a game and the immersion factor is destroyed for me by the artistic style.   
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« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2009, 05:12:43 AM »

I am 2 hours into the game now and took out my "first big Challenge"  saywhat any way Pete I know how you feel. The Graphics of this game grows on you, personally I feel its a step down for the detail in Crack Down but I can be wrong its being a while since I played a Cell Shaded game. So far I feel like I am playing fallout 3 with a different art work, and this 87 Bazillion Guns crap I already ran into 11 guns thats the same damn thing with different names exp. pistol, heavy pistol, super heavy pistol, basuper heavy pistol. WTF all with the same art work. They boost different atk lvls which I am suspect of so far. I dont see any difference. 
If you played Fallout 3 you already know the mechanics of this game. go to city talk to person of interest, get quest from person of interest, complete quest and return for reward. Wash, rinse and repeat.
The map seems pretty big and then so far for the first quest. I was sent to a sub map that was also good size and of that map my quest took part in the first 1/3 of it. I probably could have explored but what ever.
People who like to pick stuff up will love this, cause there are stuff stashed every where bullets, money, guns and so on.
You gain lvl RPG style which allows for you to use better weapons and armor and maybe other stuff. There is a Skills Tree to develope you skills in infantry, support and medic. 7 icons each with upto 5 increase ability. Your first is a scorpio turret ala HALO with a blue shield you can use to cover while the turret fires away.
Your character develops a weapon proficiencies by using a certain type of weapon frequently ( The on I have so far Combat Rifle gives me a +6% reload speed.) some weapons have special abilities such as fire or 100% melee combat damage and maybe more seen as I have 76 Bazillion more to go.
The game so far is fun and anyone who enjoy shooter and loved fallout but don't mind the art work should give this a try, of course I cant comment on the multiplayer because the game is not out yet but there is a challenge arena for friends and split screen option for local play.
I dont see where you can turn off the dmg counter as someone mentioned a few post up.
I will be playing off and on for the weekend  + uncharted2 and Brutal Legend.
Hit me up if you want more detailed info on the game or have any questions...
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« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2009, 05:23:42 AM »

Quote from: PeteRock on October 17, 2009, 03:51:26 AM

Gears was "shitty-brown-black-unreal-boring ass-space clone-number blah blah blah"?  Actually, the detail in both Gears and Gears 2 was rather impressive, and do you honestly expect a war-ravaged environment to mimic the Gummi Bears cartoon? 

you're right, they were pretty impressive for a shitty-brown-black-unreal-boring ass-space clone-number blah blah blah icon_twisted
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« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2009, 03:18:55 PM »

Heard all I need to hear from Junior.  If it is like Fallout, I am out.  Hated that game.  Thank Junior.  That was the one thing I was afraid it might be.  Was hoping for more of a diablo in first person kind of experience. 


This is why impressions threads are so important.  Helps a brother save money or spend it wisely.  Thanks.
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2009, 04:00:00 PM »

Quote from: mikeg on October 17, 2009, 03:18:55 PM

Heard all I need to hear from Junior.  If it is like Fallout, I am out.  Hated that game.  Thank Junior.  That was the one thing I was afraid it might be.  Was hoping for more of a diablo in first person kind of experience. 


This is why impressions threads are so important.  Helps a brother save money or spend it wisely.  Thanks.

Well, it is more of a Diablo in a first person kind of experience.  If you take this quote:

[go to city talk to person of interest, get quest from person of interest, complete quest and return for reward. [/quote]

In Diablo, you go into the hub city, talk to a person of interest, get the quest, complete it, and return for a reward....

What didn't you like about Fallout?  If it was the RPG combat where you have dice rolls, or the inventory system which allows you to pick up spoons...  That doesn't exist here.  Combat is first person, no dice rolls, and you're only looting weapons and weapon accessories.

I'm not trying to change your mind as I don't get a commission or anything if you buy the game, but I wouldn't want you to write off a game because you're incorrectly assessing it.
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« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2009, 06:39:58 PM »

I think I may have overreacted when I heard Fallout.  I could not stand the shooting mechanics in that game and the animations;stiffest and worst mo-cap I have see this gen.  If the shooting is spot on, like say Halo or Vegas or Uncharted, then I will probably get it.  That is what I am waiting to hear.  I also am not a big fan of 'open' games that just drop you and say figure out where the hell the main story is.  If I have to talk to 300 people to get to the main story to 'save the world' so-to-speak, then  I won't like it.  Will rent for sure just to find out. 
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« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2009, 07:24:54 PM »

Quote from: mikeg on October 18, 2009, 06:39:58 PM

I think I may have overreacted when I heard Fallout.  I could not stand the shooting mechanics in that game and the animations;stiffest and worst mo-cap I have see this gen.  If the shooting is spot on, like say Halo or Vegas or Uncharted, then I will probably get it.  That is what I am waiting to hear.  I also am not a big fan of 'open' games that just drop you and say figure out where the hell the main story is.  If I have to talk to 300 people to get to the main story to 'save the world' so-to-speak, then  I won't like it.  Will rent for sure just to find out. 
From the previews and interviews I've read, that is not this game.  It's much more shooter than RPG.  The shooting mechanics are primary. There are no dialog trees. I actually think a lot of RPG guys will be disappointed by Borderlands' shooter focus.  In fact, from one of the recent interviews with Pitchford, he sounds like he hates the same things you hate. smile
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denoginizer
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« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2009, 09:12:39 PM »

Quote from: Bob on October 18, 2009, 07:24:54 PM

From the previews and interviews I've read, that is not this game.  It's much more shooter than RPG.  The shooting mechanics are primary. There are no dialog trees. I actually think a lot of RPG guys will be disappointed by Borderlands' shooter focus.  In fact, from one of the recent interviews with Pitchford, he sounds like he hates the same things you hate. smile

Even though the 30 minute Giant Bomb video completely turned me off on the graphics,  I am still excited for Borderlands due to the above. 
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« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2009, 12:13:03 AM »

Quote from: Bob on October 18, 2009, 07:24:54 PM

Quote from: mikeg on October 18, 2009, 06:39:58 PM

I think I may have overreacted when I heard Fallout.  I could not stand the shooting mechanics in that game and the animations;stiffest and worst mo-cap I have see this gen.  If the shooting is spot on, like say Halo or Vegas or Uncharted, then I will probably get it.  That is what I am waiting to hear.  I also am not a big fan of 'open' games that just drop you and say figure out where the hell the main story is.  If I have to talk to 300 people to get to the main story to 'save the world' so-to-speak, then  I won't like it.  Will rent for sure just to find out. 
From the previews and interviews I've read, that is not this game.  It's much more shooter than RPG.  The shooting mechanics are primary. There are no dialog trees. I actually think a lot of RPG guys will be disappointed by Borderlands' shooter focus.  In fact, from one of the recent interviews with Pitchford, he sounds like he hates the same things you hate. smile


The only major RPG element I ve seen in the game so far is adding point to you SKILL set. and lvl-ing up I do how ever have a mission to look for some crystals that can be added to my weapon as a mod.
One thing that is for sure with this game is the side missions, I personally stick to the main story and may only do a side mission when I dont have much time but want to play a game. This game you have no choice really, you do but you don't. each mission (main story) requires a certain lvl to although you can still play a lvl 17 mission as a lvl 10 character I don't care what kind of badass you think you is, your going get your ass handed to you even if its 2 lvl above you. The lack of a good cover system and strategic play will see to that. This is a run and shoot um game with bad guys taking up to 3 clips to die and coming at you from all sides. You will be playing side mission to lvl up.
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« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2009, 12:38:50 AM »

my gamestop has a midnight launch for this and i might go (my first for a game and only my second ever!)

anyone else doing this and if so want to link up for some weeknight latenight? (i know the next day will be rough smile )
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« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2009, 07:37:01 AM »

Sadly my Gamestop just had a midnight sale for Uncharted 2 last week and their district manager doesn't like/want to have 2 midnight sales in a row. <shake fist> So I'll pick my copy up after work on Tuesday.
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