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Author Topic: Black & White 2 ....  (Read 10115 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #80 on: October 07, 2005, 03:28:09 PM »

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At this point, the Eurogamer review seems out of line on a number of points. The waterfall challenge, as someone already pointed out, is one of the first things in the game and is *clearly* intended as a tutorial on how to throw things. Also, while the reviewer seemed mystified (and angry) about whether he should ever want to build a Rest Home for senior villagers, the player is informed in-game and in the manual about the value of placing a good variety of buildings in your city. Finally, where the reviewer talks about buying new abilities for your Creature in lieu of training it, all of the purchaseable upgrades I've seen so far come in the form of new buildings or abilities for myself (the logic being that the more the villagers believe in you, the more versatile you become.)


This is what we in the industry like to call "Phoned in" by "reading the back of the box."  Don't get bogged down in the details or the technical jargon I just said...just know that not all reviews are built the same.

Thanks for the impressions all, I'm gonna go with a purchase on this one.  smile
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« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2005, 04:15:27 PM »

I really wanted to like B&W  1 but the micro management killed it for me.  Once while I was off doing something I come back and my city is deserted.  iIt seemed that everyone died off from starvation, cause I wasn't there to constantly feed them.   Is this sort of micro management still present in b&w2?
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« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2005, 04:21:15 PM »

I honestly miss building a fire, breaking big rocks into little rocks, and then super-heating the pebbles only to throw them across the map to burn the enemy town.  Espand my influence?  Only as far as I need to throw baby. biggrin
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« Reply #83 on: October 07, 2005, 04:26:52 PM »

Quote from: "tru1cy"
I really wanted to like B&W  1 but the micro management killed it for me.  Once while I was off doing something I come back and my city is deserted.  iIt seemed that everyone died off from starvation, cause I wasn't there to constantly feed them.   Is this sort of micro management still present in b&w2?

Well, it's still present in that you CAN micromanage to that degree if you want, but you can definitely let things go for quite a while without stepping in once things are up and running.  I certainly didn't feel like I was micromanaging things, but I did keep a watchful eye on my city.

One thing that I neglected to mention is a great tool for managing yor city: the city center.  Basically it's a small shine looking object that sits in your town.  It's got 4 points on it that are full of information about your town.  The points on the sides indicate the needs and desires of the city.  There are columns that get larger and larger as your peoples need for something goes up, and a symbol on the top of the column inicates what it is they want.  By mousing over the point on the town you can get detailed info about what other needs the city has, etc.  This allows you to go off and do what you want, and at any time you can press space to go back to the city center and at a glance see what your town needs.

In addition to that by giving your pet a "gather" role he will help your peasants with gathering of resources so you don't have to keep your eye on stuff as much.

So.. um.. short answer would probably be: Yes, there may be times when you need to take an active role (especially in the beginning of levels), but once you are built up things can run pretty well on their own.

s
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« Reply #84 on: October 07, 2005, 06:02:44 PM »

Quote from: "Graham"
LE is the "Voice of Doom" here.  After a while, you get used to it as background noise or static.
Am I?  I post kindly about plenty of games.  I just like to get creative with the shitty ones.

It just really, really worries me that we can have a thread where we all sit down and the majority opinion comes out to be, man, Black and White (1) was a overrated disaster, not falling for that again!  Then two weeks later Black and White 2 comes out and suddenly everyone's sniffing it over and reading IGN's review like it might be something other than bullshit and saying well the first level WAS kind of fun...
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« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2005, 06:19:05 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
I honestly miss building a fire, breaking big rocks into little rocks, and then super-heating the pebbles only to throw them across the map to burn the enemy town.  Espand my influence?  Only as far as I need to throw baby. biggrin

Yeah, I remember doing this as well. I was also a pretty good shot if I remember correctly.  biggrin
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« Reply #86 on: October 07, 2005, 06:24:00 PM »

I see where you are coming from LE.  I was in the group that couldn't finish the game due to the bugs. (as in the level wouldn't progress, not that I didn't want to)  I'm hoping that they've learned their lesson and that B&W2 is more in line with the game they were shooting for the first time.
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« Reply #87 on: October 07, 2005, 06:28:35 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Graham"
LE is the "Voice of Doom" here.  After a while, you get used to it as background noise or static.
Am I?  I post kindly about plenty of games.  I just like to get creative with the shitty ones.

It just really, really worries me that we can have a thread where we all sit down and the majority opinion comes out to be, man, Black and White (1) was a overrated disaster, not falling for that again!  Then two weeks later Black and White 2 comes out and suddenly everyone's sniffing it over and reading IGN's review like it might be something other than bullshit and saying well the first level WAS kind of fun...


I think this effect is some sort of mind screw.  I REALLY think that most people really liked black and white 1 and its innovations.  But somehow over time people were somehow more and more people were convinced that some minor problems were really large problems and that the game really sucked.  I'm still sticking with: I loved B&W1 and am so far really liking B&W2.  Its okay to like B&W1.  REALLY!  All of this is Just my OPINION of course. biggrin

I just wish I could turn off the creatures thought bubble and WHEN IS THE MULTIPLAYER COMING?
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« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2005, 06:45:12 PM »

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I really wanted to like B&W 1 but the micro management killed it for me. Once while I was off doing something I come back and my city is deserted. iIt seemed that everyone died off from starvation, cause I wasn't there to constantly feed them. Is this sort of micro management still present in b&w2?


One of the things complained about in the Eurogamer review was that the villagers wouldn't do anything (eat, sleep, mine, breed) unless you force them to.  Add this to the increasingly long list of things mentioned in that review that don't appear to be true.

Villagers rely on you to put down roads, fields, and building blueprints for them.  They also operate according to the time of day, so they will typically only sleep at night, work during the morning, and relax in the evening.  Aside from that, they seem remarkably self-sufficient: when left to their own devices, individual villagers will take on jobs according to the needs of the city and their own desires.  If you take the time to track an individual, you'll notice that he may start working in the mineshaft when the village needs ore, but he'll often continue to do that job after the need has passed unless a new, more pressing need comes up.  In other words, the villagers are busy little bees.

Fields in Black & White didn't yield much food, requiring you to constantly use your divine powers to supplement their output.  On top of that, even if you had enough food stored to feed the population for two generations, the villagers in that game *always* demanded more.  

This has been completely fixed in the sequel.  The size of grain fields is now adjustable and will inform you in advance how many people they'll be able to feed without your intervention.  You can create Disciple Farmers to till the fields, assign your Creature to gather food, or use Miracle Water to grow food yourself, but it's very easy to create a food economy that requires no attention from you at all.  Fields will even use established roads as their borders, so you can specify the size and shape you want them to be.

The exception to that rule is when you want to build and army.  Soldiers consume twice as much food as normal villagers, so you'll need to bear that in mind if you want to march some of your population off to war.  I don't have any real experience playing the aggressive side of Black & White II, but I believe soldiers receive their rations ahead of the general population and will begin losing health if you can't feed them all.

Your Creature also requires a lot less micromanagement than before.  I've been playing with the Ape Creature so far and other species may play differently, but when I teach my Creature a behavior it really seems to stick.  Pet him a bunch for gathering grain and putting it in the village store, and he'll devote some time to doing that from that point forward.  Your Creature will still want some attention from you once in a while, but he'll be pretty independent so long as you teach him well early on and reinforce him from time to time.

Don't mistake the lack of micromanagement for a lack of things to do.  Again, I haven't played much with the waging war aspect of Black & White 2, but as a city builder, I've been kept busy alternating between planning the next district of my city and completing Objectives to earn more tribute to purchase new buildings.  Just this morning I was able to unlock the University, the Nursury, the Rest Home, and the Fertility Statue, and each one of them will has a specific influence on the behavior of my citizens.

Unfortunately, I have to say I'm beginning to sense the outerward limits of the gameplay.  Yes, there's incentive to replay the levels to complete Objectives or Quest Scrolls I missed the first time through, but with no harder difficulty levels or Skirmish / Multiplayer modes to play with, it seems like the game's lifespan will be cut much shorter than it might have been.  It's amazing to me that Lionhead would have devoted so much time, energy, and money to completely overhauling all of the strategy mechanics that didn't work in Black & White, and then gone and omitted the chance to play anything beyond the single-player campaign.

I'm still having a real blast with Black & White 2, but I thought I'd share one of my concerns now that I'm approaching the halfway point of the campaign (I think).

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #89 on: October 07, 2005, 07:01:29 PM »

Oh, I also forgot to mention: although you train your Creature's behavior using the leash and your hand, you no longer have to patiently teach him each individual miracle by casting it in front of him over and over.  Instead, Creature Miracles are purchased using Tribute, just the same as you would buy a new building blueprint or a new miracle for yourself.

There's something to be said for the dedication of Black & White players who taught their Creatures every last miracle in the game, but I think the new system eliminates a lot of the tedium and works a lot better as a gameplay element.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #90 on: October 08, 2005, 12:55:42 AM »

I picked it up today.

Waiting for the patch to be released until I play since it won't work with savegames.  Apparently, it was supposed to be out yesterday?  I'd like a patch so I can play this sucker over the weekend :/
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« Reply #91 on: October 08, 2005, 03:37:31 AM »

I realy dont feel good about getting this game right now
With F.E.A.R & CIV4 due out with in 2 weeks and 360 4weeks after that I might be better off waiting for it as a $25. new years gift.
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« Reply #92 on: October 08, 2005, 03:37:51 AM »

I realy dont feel good about getting this game right now
With F.E.A.R & CIV4 due out with in 2 weeks and 360 4weeks after that I might be better off waiting for it as a $25. new years gift.
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« Reply #93 on: October 08, 2005, 04:13:04 AM »

Patch is out.  It is not compatible with saves from 1.0, so, install if you're willing to start over.

I can finally START, sheesh.

Link is here:

http://largedownloads.ea.com/pub/misc/BW2/BW2Patch1_1.exe

It's 106.5MB large.  That's huge!
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« Reply #94 on: October 08, 2005, 04:45:56 AM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
Patch is out.  It is not compatible with saves from 1.0, so, install if you're willing to start over.

I can finally START, sheesh.

Link is here:

http://largedownloads.ea.com/pub/misc/BW2/BW2Patch1_1.exe

It's 106.5MB large.  That's huge!


What, are you kidding? You can't save the game without a patch?
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« Reply #95 on: October 08, 2005, 04:55:25 AM »

No, save games aren't compatible.  If you have a 1.0 savegame, then update, you can't load the 1.0 savegame.
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« Reply #96 on: October 08, 2005, 05:42:55 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
No, save games aren't compatible.  If you have a 1.0 savegame, then update, you can't load the 1.0 savegame.


What all does the patch fix?
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« Reply #97 on: October 08, 2005, 06:15:57 PM »

Black & White® 2

Patch 1.1 Readme File

Lionhead Studios 2005
------------------------------

BLACK & WHITE® 2 BY LIONHEAD STUDIOS.

-----------------
Table Of Contents
-----------------

A. Patch Installation
B. Fixes inclued in this Patch
C. Known Issues
D. Uninstall
E. Important Notices



---------------------
A. Patch Installation
---------------------
To install Version 1.1 of Black & White® 2 you will need a full copy of the game installed onto your machine.

Double click the Black & White® 2 Patch 1-1.exe. This will launch an installer that will patch your version to the latest version of Black and White 2, version 1.1.



-------------------------------
B. Fixes included in this Patch
-------------------------------
- Fixed a Technical Hang on Land 3 when trying to create disciples after killing off your population.

- Fixed the command function which cycles through platoon units to not include enemy units.

- Fixed a crash involving creature/tree interaction when the tree had no town status.

- Fixed a creature issue which could stop the paternity suit or seven samurai challenges.

- Fixed a statistics error, after a save/load, with the number of soldiers and archers reported in a town.

- Fixed general balance issues involving rush tactics by an Aggressive God.

- Fixed an issue involving the height at which archer's fire from walls.

- Fixed a crash involving smashing a two story skyscraper.

- Fixed a crash involving walls where a new section of wall from a previously destroyed one could be created.

- Fixed a crash when deconstructing a wall while placing a gatehouse.

- Fixed a restarting land issue when the creature would sometimes change if the profile has save games of different creatures in it.

- Fixed a Technical Hang with the Archaeologist script on Land 6 involving killing a final archaeologist

- Fixed a bug where evil embellishments couldn't be built if you are a good God.

- Fixed a bug where Alignment could go above 100%.

- Fixed a graphical issue when adding a layer to a damaged skyscraper.

- Fixed a statistics error with Towns displaying 0 impressiveness needed to migrate when they cannot migrate.

- Fixed a graphical bug causing the shoreline visuals to vanish.

- Fixed a graphical bug where the Ape does not morph alignment correctly.

- Added an option to skip the initial advisor speech on Land 1 by pressing the Escape key - this will take you directly to the Creature selection.

- Added a silver scroll after the creature selection screen to skip the movement tutorials.

- Added two development team members to credits (sorry guys).


---------------
C. Known Issues
---------------
1. PLEASE NOTE : After installing the version 1.1 patch, you will need to start a new game for the patch to properly take effect. Your existing Black & White® 2 save games will no longer work. Save games from version 1.0 of Black & White® 2 will not be compatible with version 1.1 of Black & White® 2.
2. As mentioned in the original readme, certain USB headsets may cause issues if they are disconnected during gameplay. This is still the case. To avoid any crashes of the game, please save and quit before removing them.



That hang on lvl 3 was enough for me to hold off until I patched it up.
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« Reply #98 on: October 08, 2005, 06:29:05 PM »

So, um, how is the game?
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« Reply #99 on: October 08, 2005, 07:43:32 PM »

Has anyone tried a pre-oder code for the tiger creature?  You have to send an e-mail to EA with the code.  I've been waiting for a response, but so far nothing.  I figured it'd be automated.  If I have to wait until Tuesday for an employee to get back, I'm going to be really pissed.
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« Reply #100 on: October 09, 2005, 04:50:27 AM »

Quote from: "Bullwinkle"
Has anyone tried a pre-oder code for the tiger creature?  You have to send an e-mail to EA with the code.  I've been waiting for a response, but so far nothing.  I figured it'd be automated.  If I have to wait until Tuesday for an employee to get back, I'm going to be really pissed.


Yeah, that happened to me too. Send in my e-mail this morning and still haven't heard anything.

Just google "black and white 2 tiger unlocker" and the first site listed will get you it (you'll need bittorrent).
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« Reply #101 on: October 09, 2005, 02:30:15 PM »

Yeah, I got it through the Lionhead forums.  People have waited 36+ hours.  I myself am coming up on 24.  What a fumble.
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« Reply #102 on: October 09, 2005, 02:52:32 PM »

If anyone wants it I can send it to you, I got mine on release day.  Just send me a pm and I'll attach it in an email.

Ascendent
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« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2005, 06:54:58 AM »

So has everyone finished this game already?  What's the final verdict?  Was the ending satisfactory?

Hopefully it will be heading for the bargain bins pretty soon as I'm interested in picking it up!
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« Reply #104 on: November 21, 2005, 09:49:09 AM »

Quote from: "slackerjoe"
So has everyone finished this game already?  What's the final verdict?  Was the ending satisfactory?

Hopefully it will be heading for the bargain bins pretty soon as I'm interested in picking it up!


I played through it twice. This one is more a game than the first one. Play like a hybrid of city building game and RTS lite.
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« Reply #105 on: November 22, 2005, 07:14:08 AM »

Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "slackerjoe"
So has everyone finished this game already?  What's the final verdict?  Was the ending satisfactory?

Hopefully it will be heading for the bargain bins pretty soon as I'm interested in picking it up!


I played through it twice. This one is more a game than the first one. Play like a hybrid of city building game and RTS lite.


 Mine went back. Buggy piece of shit. Hehe, well it was for me. And I REALLY wanted to play it badly...oh well.
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