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Author Topic: [PC/360/Ps3] Bioshock: Infinite - Impressions Incoming! Impressions pg 6  (Read 15703 times)
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« Reply #360 on: April 10, 2013, 12:30:07 AM »

I like this version of AA more than the drunken AA from the other day.  I also like the explanation.  so very neat that I'd almost guess you had a hand in the story. 

as for the post credits bit, I have the same feeling as I did after watching Inception.  it has a very either-OR feel to it.  I wish I had known it was there instead of having to watch it on youtube.  would have had more of an effect. 
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« Reply #361 on: April 10, 2013, 12:59:17 AM »

more on the post-credits bit
Spoiler for Hiden:
after reading this and watching a youtube vid on it, I think the ending is a lot more uplifting than either or.  basically, the theory is that since Elizabeth kills Booker before he becomes Comstock, therefore erasing every thing that Comstock or the alternate Bookers did.  it also erases Elizabeth as in every universe she exists in at that point in her life is a product of Comstock's doing.  with that loop closed, no one is there to trade Booker for Anna and in the end, while you don't hear Anna crying, only her music box, she's lying there in the crib and Booker goes on to be a better father and doesn't fall into the heavy drinking and gambling lifestyle.  (hopefully)



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« Reply #362 on: April 10, 2013, 01:32:54 AM »

Did anyone find any info on Comstock's wife's past? In all her voxophones she seems to imply that she has a very dark past that Comstock has forgiven.
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« Reply #363 on: April 10, 2013, 12:31:31 PM »

Fantastic summary, AA.  Bravo.

Spoiler for Hiden:
You might add a little something about DeWitt getting nosebleeds as he suppressed the memory of giving away his daughter.

Post Credits:

Spoiler for Hiden:
I also took it as uplifting (it's very reminiscent of the end of Monsters, Inc where Sully opens the door and Boo says, "Kitty!"), but it may also be a set up for a sequel (or DLC).  I much prefer the former, so I'm thinking of it that way for now.

As for how it happened, there could be a version of DeWitt that never even went to get baptised.  Didn't even go to the river, which maybe kept him safe from that particular elimination.  

Or it could just be that, despite Elizabeth's efforts (or the Lutece's, I suppose, since they seem to be the masterminds of this plot, really), the worlds need a DeWitt and/or an Elizabeth/Anna.  Of course, that could make the ending less uplifting.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 12:35:12 PM by Bullwinkle » Logged

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« Reply #364 on: April 10, 2013, 02:40:43 PM »

One other small touch that I just remembered and wanted to mention.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Throughout the game, you come across Kinetoscopes that are beautiful set shot images captured by a photographer (the name is mentioned, but escapes me right now).  There were a number of these sort of shots:  hummingbirds, pedestrians in the plaza, flowers, buildings, etc.  No subtitles, no music, just video capturing about 30 seconds of life in Columbia.

In one of the final areas, you come across one that is a beautiful shot of Battleship Falls.  The camera pans across the waterfall and shows the buildings...then you can tell the operator slowly climbs over the railing and jumps to his death, filming the whole time.  Once it hits, an RIP for the photographer flashes across the screen.

It's made me wonder about the backstory involved there.  This man who was so intent on shooting simple, beautiful, peaceful, serene shots of Columbia suddenly decides to commit suicide and record it on the way down.  It's a very small piece of the overall game, but really gave me a nasty jolt when I watched it.
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« Reply #365 on: April 10, 2013, 02:54:35 PM »

Quote

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 09, 2013, 10:49:22 PM

Here's the other part that was gnawing at me last night.  I'm sure there's an logical explanation that I'm just missing:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Booker kills Comstock by bashing his head against the fountain.  In doing so, he's basically killing...himself.  Seems that would cause at least a minor paradox/ripple/confusion, but they seemed to jump right on past it.  The only thing I can figure is that since the Booker that kills Comstock is from a alternate reality, it doesn't have any effect in this one.  But that just seems...off, somehow.  With all the dimension jumping, wouldn't killing yourself have at least some sort of an effect?

Maybe I'm just overthinking it...

I thought you might be right about this, but thinking a bit further...

Spoiler for Hiden:
The soldiers and such that were killed in the game were normal when Booker and Elizabeth met them in the next dimension, but were in a twisted state when they returned to them, IIRC.  This might be how Booker avoided being affected by the prophet's death.  Also, storytelling.

EDIT:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Actually, AA's great summary above points out another likely reason, if Elizabeth is really meshing the two worlds together. That didn't happen at the point where Comstock got his head bashed in.  OTOH, wouldn't that lead to the various DeWitts having issues each time she brought worlds together in the story?

So, I went back and watched that scene again.  Noticed something I didn't see the first time:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Immediately after Booker kills Comstock, his nose starts bleeding and his vision gets fuzzy (2:45 mark).  This is an indication that two realities/memories are colliding or have been merged, but leads to the question:  Which realities and/or which memories?  Is there somehow a reality where Booker doesn't kill Comstock at the fountain?  Or one where Comstock kills Booker?  Or one where their roles are reversed?  So many questions...

Don't think I've ever thought about a game this much after completing it.  
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« Reply #366 on: April 10, 2013, 03:12:12 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on April 10, 2013, 02:40:43 PM

One other small touch that I just remembered and wanted to mention.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Throughout the game, you come across Kinetoscopes that are beautiful set shot images captured by a photographer (the name is mentioned, but escapes me right now).  There were a number of these sort of shots:  hummingbirds, pedestrians in the plaza, flowers, buildings, etc.  No subtitles, no music, just video capturing about 30 seconds of life in Columbia.

In one of the final areas, you come across one that is a beautiful shot of Battleship Falls.  The camera pans across the waterfall and shows the buildings...then you can tell the operator slowly climbs over the railing and jumps to his death, filming the whole time.  Once it hits, an RIP for the photographer flashes across the screen.

It's made me wonder about the backstory involved there.  This man who was so intent on shooting simple, beautiful, peaceful, serene shots of Columbia suddenly decides to commit suicide and record it on the way down.  It's a very small piece of the overall game, but really gave me a nasty jolt when I watched it.

about that bit:

Spoiler for Hiden:
I thought it was supposed to be humorous, like the photographer was so intent on getting the best image he didn't pay attention to what he was doing and ended up falling.
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« Reply #367 on: April 10, 2013, 03:26:19 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 10, 2013, 03:12:12 PM

Quote from: Gratch on April 10, 2013, 02:40:43 PM

One other small touch that I just remembered and wanted to mention.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Throughout the game, you come across Kinetoscopes that are beautiful set shot images captured by a photographer (the name is mentioned, but escapes me right now).  There were a number of these sort of shots:  hummingbirds, pedestrians in the plaza, flowers, buildings, etc.  No subtitles, no music, just video capturing about 30 seconds of life in Columbia.

In one of the final areas, you come across one that is a beautiful shot of Battleship Falls.  The camera pans across the waterfall and shows the buildings...then you can tell the operator slowly climbs over the railing and jumps to his death, filming the whole time.  Once it hits, an RIP for the photographer flashes across the screen.

It's made me wonder about the backstory involved there.  This man who was so intent on shooting simple, beautiful, peaceful, serene shots of Columbia suddenly decides to commit suicide and record it on the way down.  It's a very small piece of the overall game, but really gave me a nasty jolt when I watched it.

about that bit:

Spoiler for Hiden:
I thought it was supposed to be humorous, like the photographer was so intent on getting the best image he didn't pay attention to what he was doing and ended up falling.

Interesting...I hadn't really considered that.  Guess I was just so tied up in the bleak story that it came across differently to me.
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« Reply #368 on: April 10, 2013, 03:56:32 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on April 10, 2013, 03:26:19 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on April 10, 2013, 03:12:12 PM

Quote from: Gratch on April 10, 2013, 02:40:43 PM

One other small touch that I just remembered and wanted to mention.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Throughout the game, you come across Kinetoscopes that are beautiful set shot images captured by a photographer (the name is mentioned, but escapes me right now).  There were a number of these sort of shots:  hummingbirds, pedestrians in the plaza, flowers, buildings, etc.  No subtitles, no music, just video capturing about 30 seconds of life in Columbia.

In one of the final areas, you come across one that is a beautiful shot of Battleship Falls.  The camera pans across the waterfall and shows the buildings...then you can tell the operator slowly climbs over the railing and jumps to his death, filming the whole time.  Once it hits, an RIP for the photographer flashes across the screen.

It's made me wonder about the backstory involved there.  This man who was so intent on shooting simple, beautiful, peaceful, serene shots of Columbia suddenly decides to commit suicide and record it on the way down.  It's a very small piece of the overall game, but really gave me a nasty jolt when I watched it.

about that bit:

Spoiler for Hiden:
I thought it was supposed to be humorous, like the photographer was so intent on getting the best image he didn't pay attention to what he was doing and ended up falling.

Interesting...I hadn't really considered that.  Guess I was just so tied up in the bleak story that it came across differently to me.

I had the same impression that CeeKay did with that one.
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« Reply #369 on: April 10, 2013, 05:25:41 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on April 10, 2013, 02:54:35 PM



Spoiler for Hiden:
Immediately after Booker kills Comstock, his nose starts bleeding and his vision gets fuzzy (2:45 mark).  This is an indication that two realities/memories are colliding or have been merged, but leads to the question:  Which realities and/or which memories?  Is there somehow a reality where Booker doesn't kill Comstock at the fountain?  Or one where Comstock kills Booker?  Or one where their roles are reversed?  So many questions...

Don't think I've ever thought about a game this much after completing it. 

This is a part that doesn't really make sense
Spoiler for Hiden:
If Booker goes to another timeline, he merges with that timeline's Booker (which is how someone earlier in the thread explained to me how killing Booker at the baptism worked). However, when Booker enters the Columbia timeline he doesn't merge with Comstock (himself). Maybe it's because Comstock has visited other timelines or something, but it would be nice to have an explanation.

Also why do the police guys remember themselves being dead in other timelines? Unless Elizabeth does more than just travel to a timeline, she merges timelines or something.

Sometimes it's best to just enjoy the game instead of overthinking it smile
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« Reply #370 on: April 10, 2013, 06:52:12 PM »

Quote from: Caine on April 10, 2013, 12:59:17 AM

more on the post-credits bit
Spoiler for Hiden:
after reading this and watching a youtube vid on it, I think the ending is a lot more uplifting than either or.  basically, the theory is that since Elizabeth kills Booker before he becomes Comstock, therefore erasing every thing that Comstock or the alternate Bookers did.  it also erases Elizabeth as in every universe she exists in at that point in her life is a product of Comstock's doing.  with that loop closed, no one is there to trade Booker for Anna and in the end, while you don't hear Anna crying, only her music box, she's lying there in the crib and Booker goes on to be a better father and doesn't fall into the heavy drinking and gambling lifestyle.  (hopefully)



Spoiler for Hiden:
Why didn't the main Elizabeth wink out of existence when the others did?  All the others disappeared except for her and it has gotten me confused, because if Comstock is no more, Elizabeth should also be no more since Comstock never gets Anna and makes her become Elizabeth.
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« Reply #371 on: April 10, 2013, 07:03:15 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on April 10, 2013, 06:52:12 PM

Quote from: Caine on April 10, 2013, 12:59:17 AM

more on the post-credits bit
Spoiler for Hiden:
after reading this and watching a youtube vid on it, I think the ending is a lot more uplifting than either or.  basically, the theory is that since Elizabeth kills Booker before he becomes Comstock, therefore erasing every thing that Comstock or the alternate Bookers did.  it also erases Elizabeth as in every universe she exists in at that point in her life is a product of Comstock's doing.  with that loop closed, no one is there to trade Booker for Anna and in the end, while you don't hear Anna crying, only her music box, she's lying there in the crib and Booker goes on to be a better father and doesn't fall into the heavy drinking and gambling lifestyle.  (hopefully)



Spoiler for Hiden:
Why didn't the main Elizabeth wink out of existence when the others did?  All the others disappeared except for her and it has gotten me confused, because if Comstock is no more, Elizabeth should also be no more since Comstock never gets Anna and makes her become Elizabeth.

Spoiler for Hiden:
That last "wink" is when it fades to black though so you don't really know if she did continue to exist or did not.  I think it could very well be interpreted that the fade to black means none of this came to pass and once he died they all vanished.
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« Reply #372 on: April 10, 2013, 07:09:22 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on April 10, 2013, 07:03:15 PM

Quote from: The Grue on April 10, 2013, 06:52:12 PM

Quote from: Caine on April 10, 2013, 12:59:17 AM

more on the post-credits bit
Spoiler for Hiden:
after reading this and watching a youtube vid on it, I think the ending is a lot more uplifting than either or.  basically, the theory is that since Elizabeth kills Booker before he becomes Comstock, therefore erasing every thing that Comstock or the alternate Bookers did.  it also erases Elizabeth as in every universe she exists in at that point in her life is a product of Comstock's doing.  with that loop closed, no one is there to trade Booker for Anna and in the end, while you don't hear Anna crying, only her music box, she's lying there in the crib and Booker goes on to be a better father and doesn't fall into the heavy drinking and gambling lifestyle.  (hopefully)



Spoiler for Hiden:
Why didn't the main Elizabeth wink out of existence when the others did?  All the others disappeared except for her and it has gotten me confused, because if Comstock is no more, Elizabeth should also be no more since Comstock never gets Anna and makes her become Elizabeth.

Spoiler for Hiden:
That last "wink" is when it fades to black though so you don't really know if she did continue to exist or did not.  I think it could very well be interpreted that the fade to black means none of this came to pass and once he died they all vanished.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I thought she did wink out at the very end (the last piano note before the credit roll).  Didn't she?
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« Reply #373 on: April 10, 2013, 10:00:57 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on April 10, 2013, 01:32:54 AM

Did anyone find any info on Comstock's wife's past? In all her voxophones she seems to imply that she has a very dark past that Comstock has forgiven.


Spoiler for Hiden:
The "terrible past" that Lady Comstock alludes to throughout the game appears to be a big red herring.  As far as I can tell, her worst sin was being exceptionally beautiful and happy to accept attention from many different suitors.

Comstock, however, was able to convince her that she was reveling in the biblical sins of pride and vanity.  It was only through his infinite patience and forgiveness that she could be redeemed into a virtuous lady worthy of sharing his bed.

That's the reveal: the glorious forgiveness Lady Comstock frets over in those audio logs turns out to be, in fact, a lifetime of withering guilt piled on her by a man who claims to have the inside track on the fate of her immortal soul.  She really is a true believer, right up until his "bastard child" mysteriously shows up.



Quote from: Gratch on April 10, 2013, 07:09:22 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on April 10, 2013, 07:03:15 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
That last "wink" is when it fades to black though so you don't really know if she did continue to exist or did not.  I think it could very well be interpreted that the fade to black means none of this came to pass and once he died they all vanished.


Spoiler for Hiden:
I thought she did wink out at the very end (the last piano note before the credit roll).  Didn't she?


No.  It's interesting how many people think they see that, and I don't mean that in a negative way at all.  It's like the people who swear Bruce Willis exchanges words with the mother in The Sixth Sense, or who claim to have seen the contents of the box in Se7en.  Those moments play up your anticipation so expertly that imagination overwrites memory.

(That totally happened to my memories of Se7en, by the way.)

You can see the ending in question, starting about 5:45, right here:



My personal take on the post-credit bit, by the way:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Upon returning to the river, Elizabeth explains to Dewitt that the only way to eliminate Comstock from every possible reality is to take away his choice.  By drowning him at the instant he would have decided whether or not to accept the baptism, no version of Dewitt can possible choose to go through with it.  The flip side of that coin is that he can never choose not to do it, so every version of Elizabeth winks out of existence.

Except that very last one.

I believe that Elizabeth, now fully in control of her powers, was able to create a single exception: one timeline in which her own father had not been baptized.  This is who you are in that post-credit bit: the same Booker Dewitt you've been playing all along, but thrown forward into a reality formed by Elizabeth's fading wish.

Of course, you don't actually see Anna returned to her crib in those final seconds, so it's really just conjecture.  I think it ties together all the moments in the game where she expresses her belief that her powers are a form of wish fulfillment and, sometimes, she's looking at alternate worlds but actively generating them with her desire.  And in that river, she wanted to be with her father very much.


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« Reply #374 on: April 10, 2013, 10:18:43 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on April 10, 2013, 10:00:57 PM

No.  It's interesting how many people think they see that, and I don't mean that in a negative way at all.  It's like the people who swear Bruce Willis exchanges words with the mother in The Sixth Sense, or who claim to have seen the contents of the box in Se7en.  Those moments play up your anticipation so expertly that imagination overwrites memory.

(That totally happened to my memories of Se7en, by the way.)

You can see the ending in question, starting about 5:45, right here:


I'll be damned, you're right.  Apparently I saw what I wanted/expected to see, not what actually happened.  Thanks for pointing that out.
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« Reply #375 on: April 12, 2013, 01:18:10 PM »

In what may be the stupidest article ever written, Explosion.com looks at why Bioshock Infinite is a sexist game

Beware, the level of derp goes to 11 on this one.
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« Reply #376 on: April 12, 2013, 01:31:37 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on April 12, 2013, 01:18:10 PM

In what may be the stupidest article ever written, Explosion.com looks at why Bioshock Infinite is a sexist game

Beware, the level of derp goes to 11 on this one.

Of course, you're completely rewarding their stupidity by linking to them, generating revenue for them and encouraging them to be stupid in the future.
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« Reply #377 on: April 12, 2013, 01:45:53 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on April 12, 2013, 01:18:10 PM

In what may be the stupidest article ever written, Explosion.com looks at why Bioshock Infinite is a sexist game

Beware, the level of derp goes to 11 on this one.

Four of them could have reasonable arguments made for them, although in the end someone is telling a story and making a game and honestly it's a step in the right direction that you don't have to sit and protect Elizabeth all the tie, which is what most games would make you do.  But, whatever....people will find fault in anything.  The one that bothers me is #3 because they obviously weren't paying attention to the story and didn't understand why both Luteces existed simultaneously.
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« Reply #378 on: April 12, 2013, 02:49:07 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on April 12, 2013, 01:31:37 PM

Quote from: Gratch on April 12, 2013, 01:18:10 PM

In what may be the stupidest article ever written, Explosion.com looks at why Bioshock Infinite is a sexist game

Beware, the level of derp goes to 11 on this one.

Of course, you're completely rewarding their stupidity by linking to them, generating revenue for them and encouraging them to be stupid in the future.

The derp amused me, and copy/pasting wouldn't be any more appropriate.
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« Reply #379 on: April 12, 2013, 03:36:44 PM »

Major spoiler alert if you read that article on sexism before finishing the game.
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« Reply #380 on: April 12, 2013, 04:02:29 PM »

Quote from: skystride on April 12, 2013, 03:36:44 PM

Major spoiler alert if you read that article on sexism before finishing the game.

I think at this point, any discussion about the themes of BI needs to be assumed to be spoiler filled.  otherwise, what's to discuss that hasn't already been as beaten to death as the dead horse in the earlier E3 demo. 
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« Reply #381 on: April 12, 2013, 04:06:46 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on April 12, 2013, 01:18:10 PM

In what may be the stupidest article ever written, Explosion.com looks at why Bioshock Infinite is a sexist game

Beware, the level of derp goes to 11 on this one.

Based on this quote, I think this may be a thought exercise:
Quote
Do I actually believe Bioshock Infintie is sexist? Hell no. Are the points extreme? That’s par for the course in these arguments.

I think maybe the writer is making a comment on all the sexism talk lately (ie. tropes vs. women video series) and giving extreme examples he/she is expecting to hear about Bioshock.

Spoiler for Hiden:
BTW, the first one is wrong - one of the first enemies you face with Elizabeth is a woman (the one who calls her "Annabelle") and I recall another woman cop/security guard in the cells. There are probably more in the fights but they are less noticeable because everything is moving so fast.
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« Reply #382 on: April 12, 2013, 04:46:03 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on April 12, 2013, 04:06:46 PM

I think maybe the writer is making a comment on all the sexism talk lately (ie. tropes vs. women video series) and giving extreme examples he/she is expecting to hear about Bioshock.

Yeah, the writer actually states that he doesn't think Bioshock is sexist.  The only problem is some of his arguments are just plain wrong.
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« Reply #383 on: April 12, 2013, 06:51:38 PM »

These kind of articles actually do little for feminism in my eyes, it's just link bait manufactured controversy. The reality is that yes, there are elements of sexism in Bioshock Infinite, but there are also strong characters regardless of sex.

This is especially so if the author doesn't even take the argument seriously, as per his own acknowledgement.
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« Reply #384 on: April 12, 2013, 07:00:54 PM »

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« Reply #385 on: April 12, 2013, 07:13:26 PM »

Reminded me of this:

« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 07:16:07 PM by Teggy » Logged

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« Reply #386 on: April 12, 2013, 07:37:04 PM »

heh...

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« Reply #387 on: April 15, 2013, 05:36:44 PM »

I have to be near the end of this gem. I put in another 3 or 4 hrs yesterday. Still really enjoying it. Weird shit is happening..
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« Reply #388 on: April 16, 2013, 05:53:38 AM »

Mind blown. Or still blowing I suppose! Just finished this and holy shit. Fucking incredible. I just sat through the last 15 mins or more with my jaw completely dropped. GOTY.
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« Reply #389 on: April 16, 2013, 09:51:14 AM »

Mind still blown. Might need to replay this one to see all the details after the fact..
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« Reply #390 on: April 16, 2013, 10:52:50 AM »

Quote from: Harpua3 on April 16, 2013, 09:51:14 AM

Mind still blown. Might need to replay this one to see all the details after the fact..

just wait until you realize:

Spoiler for Hiden:
you didn't actually play the game, it was all choreographed so perfectly that it only felt like you were controlling Booker.
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« Reply #391 on: April 16, 2013, 05:05:26 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 16, 2013, 10:52:50 AM

Quote from: Harpua3 on April 16, 2013, 09:51:14 AM

Mind still blown. Might need to replay this one to see all the details after the fact..

just wait until you realize:

Spoiler for Hiden:
you didn't actually play the game, it was all choreographed so perfectly that it only felt like you were controlling Booker.

That's crazy talk.
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Caine
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« Reply #392 on: April 17, 2013, 03:44:52 AM »

did anyone catch this bit the first time around?

Spoiler for Hiden:




Spoiler for Hiden:
icon_razz
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« Reply #393 on: April 25, 2013, 03:55:40 PM »

Just finished the game last night, and that was nice ending.  Had to read up for more explanations but I really enjoyed the game.  Still think Tomb Raider was better overall, but this was close
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« Reply #394 on: May 13, 2013, 11:31:26 PM »

what if Elizabeth was more realistic (some coarse language).
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« Reply #395 on: May 14, 2013, 04:48:06 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on May 13, 2013, 11:31:26 PM

what if Elizabeth was more realistic (some coarse language).
thumbsup
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« Reply #396 on: June 26, 2013, 08:45:07 PM »

that DLC for the season pass?  still working on it and they're not saying anything else.
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« Reply #397 on: July 30, 2013, 01:50:49 PM »

Three DLC with the first being combat driven and the last two narrative driven and taking place in Rapture.  You'll be playing Booker in the second and Elizabeth in the third

Looking at the trailer it appears to be parallel versions of Booker and Elizabeth. 20.00 bucks for the DLC, so I might be in
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« Reply #398 on: July 30, 2013, 05:41:46 PM »

hmmm.. definitely not interested in the first DLC, gonna wait to see when the next two are released before I grab the season pass.
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« Reply #399 on: July 30, 2013, 09:24:18 PM »

The trailer for "Buried at Sea" the second and third DLC, looks really cool. Actually seeing Rapture with a modern polygon budget, and not completely messed up is nice. Plus it's a film noir style detective story set in Rapture.

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