[PC/360/Ps3] Bioshock: Infinite - Impressions Incoming! Impressions pg 6

[Lordnine]

I loved System Shock 2, enjoyed Bioshock but thought Bioshock 2 was unnecessary and quite dull for the first 2/3 of the game.  To its credit I thought the last third of the game was really well done but the rest felt like filler.  I will remain skeptical on this one until more information is known.

[Caine]

i think the biggest generator of "meh" is this is what Irrational considers "new IP".  if IW had announced pulled the same thing with modern warfare, people would have had a similar reaction too.  no doubt BI will be a great game and could very be strong enough to distance itself from the first two, but it's hard to get excited when we all imagine what they could do with really new IP. 

[Turtle]

So, in a world of sequels, you're sad that it's not a sequel for an older game rather than a newer game?

[CeeKay]

I loved System Shock 2, enjoyed Bioshock but thought Bioshock 2 was unnecessary and quite dull for the first 2/3 of the game.  To its credit I thought the last third of the game was really well done but the rest felt like filler.  I will remain skeptical on this one until more information is known.

in their defense it wasn't the original BS team that did BS2, it was 2K Marin.

[KePoW]

So, in a world of sequels, you're sad that it's not a sequel for an older game rather than a newer game?

Haha yeah.

I think new IP is really overrated in video games, just like "innovation".  Give me polish and production values... I definitely place higher priority on those things.  Now granted, you could have great polish and production values on a new IP game, and that's fine too.

But just think about, Diablo 3 will be the most anticipated game in a decade, but it's not new IP.

[EddieA]

I don't understand how this isn't a new IP.  It's a completely new world with completely new characters that shares a few gameplay elements with Bioshock.  Calling Bioshock : Infinite and Bioshock the same IP is like calling Starcraft and Warcraft the same IP.

[Razgon]

I don't understand how this isn't a new IP.  It's a completely new world with completely new characters that shares a few gameplay elements with Bioshock.  Calling Bioshock : Infinite and Bioshock the same IP is like calling Starcraft and Warcraft the same IP.

huh? Its Bioshock, and Bioshock - how is that new, no matter where they take it? Was Deus Ex 2 a newr IP?

[EddieA]

I don't understand how this isn't a new IP.  It's a completely new world with completely new characters that shares a few gameplay elements with Bioshock.  Calling Bioshock : Infinite and Bioshock the same IP is like calling Starcraft and Warcraft the same IP.

huh? Its Bioshock, and Bioshock - how is that new, no matter where they take it? Was Deus Ex 2 a newr IP?

Does the name of the game determine the IP?  I'd say the Bioshock IP is the Rapture setting, plasmids, eve, Andrew Ryan, etc.  Since Bioshock : Infinite has none of these things, IMO, it's a new IP, no matter what they call it.  If they had called Starcraft "Warcraft : In Space", that wouldn't have changed the game at all.

[Razgon]

Yes, the name implies the IP, otherwise there is no reason to use it.

oh - and as for plasmid powers, well - the walkthrough the press was shown had the enemies sprayed in water and then hit with lightning as to electrocute them...Bioshock ;-)

[KePoW]

Yes, the name implies the IP, otherwise there is no reason to use it.

I guess that's where some of us disagree... a name is just a word, it means nothing.

Eddie's Warcraft and Starcraft comparison is a great one.  Do you consider that the same IP?  Cause the gameplay is basically 99% identical.

[Razgon]

IP means intellectual property and is used in conjunction with trademarks and copyrighting names - Thus, the IP here is Bioshock.

also, The big daddy in the movie, the use of plasmid powers we've seen a few times in Bioshock as well also clearly shows its the same basic system/world.

I also really dont understand why we are arguing about this? Does it matter?

As for Warcraft and Starcraft, they are both RTS's, but not with the same IP, meaning, they dont use the same now, so no, I dont consider that the same IP - I do consider it the same genre

[Caine]

how about we just agree that it's not entirely new?  it shares enough of the gameplay elements of bioshock that it is very hard to say that this is new IP. 

to me, it sounds like it plays like bioshock with the addition of a helper.  you have different powers here, but you still gain them in a similar fashion (the preview even calls them plasmids fwiw), use them against crazies and hulking contraptions (big daddies and sisters and the mechanical man shown in the trailer), and fight in a decaying world built by man's ambition and torn apart by man's ambition. 

hell, it's so similar to bioshock (and system shock when you think about it) that it's like id and the action-only fps:  it's their game formula. 

again, if they hadn't used the term "new IP", then people wouldn't be having this reaction.  but when you hear that and know what irrational is capable of creating, you get excited because the potential for something completely different and awesome, made with the talent they have shown they possess, is bigger than "another bioshock", no matter how they changed the formula.  we still like the game itself and i look forward to it just as much as any other big name developer's new project, but that desire for something new remains. 

[KePoW]

again, if they hadn't used the term "new IP", then people wouldn't be having this reaction.  but when you hear that and know what irrational is capable of creating, you get excited because the potential for something completely different and awesome, made with the talent they have shown they possess, is bigger than "another bioshock", no matter how they changed the formula.  we still like the game itself and i look forward to it just as much as any other big name developer's new project, but that desire for something new remains. 

Everything you said in this paragraph is reasonable and I won't argue against it.  I definitely agree that Irrational shouldn't have marketed it as "new IP".

But the only other thing I'll say is why would you consider "something new" as definitely better?

[Caine]

again, if they hadn't used the term "new IP", then people wouldn't be having this reaction.  but when you hear that and know what irrational is capable of creating, you get excited because the potential for something completely different and awesome, made with the talent they have shown they possess, is bigger than "another bioshock", no matter how they changed the formula.  we still like the game itself and i look forward to it just as much as any other big name developer's new project, but that desire for something new remains. 

Everything you said in this paragraph is reasonable and I won't argue against it.  I definitely agree that Irrational shouldn't have marketed it as "new IP".

But the only other thing I'll say is why would you consider "something new" as definitely better?

i'll grant you that.  "something new" has a long history of falling down on its face.  but the possibilities for a new ip being a great game are very good from irrational.  tbh, i think the 2k overlords had as much to do with directing this project as the lead designers.  this is now a proven franchise and it's a safer bet for them. 

[Kevin Grey]

I don't know about 2K mandating things but I strongly suspect that there is at least one scrapped project between Bioshock and Infinite.  As successful as Bio 1 was, it wasn't the type of success that grants most devs a Bliizzard-like 5 years to produce a sequel.  And I seriously doubt Take 2 would have 2K Marin make Bioshock 2 if Irrational had moved right into developing another Bioshock game as well. 

[Caine]

the man himself chimes in

"It would be dishonest to say this is not BioShock,"

he's generally noncommittal about this being a straight prequel though, but it still works within the world of the first two. 

[leo8877]

the man himself chimes in

"It would be dishonest to say this is not BioShock,"

he's generally noncommittal about this being a straight prequel though, but it still works within the world of the first two. 

That makes me think it's connected somehow, not that it bothers me.  I loved Both Bio 1 and 2

[CeeKay]

a couple of new screenshots.

[CeeKay]

cool, Game Informer cover:

[jersoc]

Yeah, I want the scarecrow one

[CeeKay]

the scarecrow one is cool, but I wonder if they'll all have a front and back cover like the first one.  Oh, and the eyeball in the scarecrow one got removed for publication.

[CeeKay]

the Handyman.  there's more out there, but game Informer's site keeps locking up my IE.

[jersoc]

well i solved your problem, you aren't using chrome or firefox.

[CeeKay]

well i solved your problem, you aren't using chrome or firefox.

heh, stupid work PC.

[CeeKay]

10 things you should know about Bioshock Infinite in 10 parts:

Day 1

Day 2

[CeeKay]

day 3

[CeeKay]

day 4

[Turtle]

Again, really good to hear Ken Levine stepping out of his comfort zone and including a lot more character interaction. NPCs not attacking immediately and a character that travels with you.

[Daehawk]

Gameplay video

[CeeKay]

Again, really good to hear Ken Levine stepping out of his comfort zone and including a lot more character interaction. NPCs not attacking immediately and a character that travels with you.

I bet the character ends up in a pope bubble.

[CeeKay]

want to buy the Game Informer cover art in poster format?

[CeeKay]

get your name in the game.  I'd tell them mine is Turd Ferguson.

[CeeKay]

name in the game winner announced.  Turd Ferguson did not win.

[CeeKay]

new preview.  after being disappointed in BS2 I'm keeping my expectations low, but it is sounding pretty cool.

[Greg Wak]

You Didin't like BS2? I thought it was pretty similar to one in gameplay, outside of the sister mechanic.

[CeeKay]

You Didin't like BS2? I thought it was pretty similar to one in gameplay, outside of the sister mechanic.

yeah, the magic just wasn't there like it was in the first game.  that's why I'm looking forward to this one- it's not Rapture all over again.

[Turtle]

Also, they're doing more than just going to a fantastical world that's in physical and ideological decay. They're also trying new stuff (for them) like having a constant AI companion, maybe even co-op if rumors are correct.

Also shown in way more non-combat interaction with characters, especially with said characters not being behind a pane of impenetrable glass.

[CeeKay]

a bunch more previews. 

[Turtle]

Okay, reading those makes things sound way, way, way more crazy and interesting.

Tears in the fabric of reality looks to be one of the new story and gameplay aspects, including being pulled through such tears into strange alternate history versions of America, but otherwise mostly for gameplay effect of warping stuff into and out of existence.

The art style has also gotten a slight make-over. The characters are stylized in a different way then Bioshock, still has a similar flavor of stylization though. While trying not to be distracted by Elizabeth's accentuated chest, I noticed they also reworked various shaders for skin, and even Elizabeth's jacket to have a shimmering blue/purple velvet look, very cool.

[jersoc]

I like old Elizabeth. black hair>brunette. Plus the new face is meh.

The game sounds awesome, read the ars one, decided not to read anymore. Game is day 1 purchase regardless, especially since Levine is back.