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Author Topic: BEYOND UPSET WITH MICROSOFT 360 WORSE CONSOLE EVER  (Read 3905 times)
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HankRaptor
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« on: February 20, 2007, 09:47:24 PM »

Came home with Crackdown... and my fourth 360 is crapping out. The graphics are glitching even on the dashboard now.

This is beyond the pale.

ON TO MY FIFTH

I THINK ITS TIME TO COMMENCE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 10:05:31 PM by HankRaptor » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2007, 09:49:45 PM »

Wow.  That is beyond suck.
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2007, 09:56:16 PM »

woah
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2007, 10:04:25 PM »

Wow... That makes me think the problem is not with the consoles but with their setting...  graphic glitches are often the result of excess heat... is your 360 near a heating vent, or in an enclosed space?  Is there stuff stacked on top of it?  Pressed up against the back or sides? Dipped in water?
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2007, 10:05:33 PM »

Jesus... yeah I'm with Kratz.  Once or twice is certainly within the realm of hardware failure.  Five times - there's gotta be something you're doing to it.  Either that or you have ridiculously bad luck.

gellar
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HankRaptor
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2007, 10:06:11 PM »

Nope, its clear... and I just turned it on in a cold basement.
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2007, 10:07:44 PM »

Do you have it plugged into a surge protector? Maybe you live in an area with "dirty" power and are prone to spikes.
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HankRaptor
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2007, 10:22:23 PM »

Each system has FAILED for different reasons. I have the game console's on a seperate circuit with a APC LINE CONDITIONER.

The first one would not start with the remote...
The second one would freeze all the time.
The Third one the tray stopped working.
The fourth one has graphical corruption....


I have NEVER had to get any other console repaired before. EVER.
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Hetz
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2007, 10:26:48 PM »

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 20, 2007, 10:22:23 PM

Each system has FAILED for different reasons. I have the game console's on a seperate circuit with a APC LINE CONDITIONER.

The first one would not start with the remote...
The second one would freeze all the time.
The Third one the tray stopped working.
The fourth one has graphical corruption....


I have NEVER had to get any other console repaired before. EVER.

Same here.

It is pretty incredible how huge a failure rate the 360 has. There must have been some inherant design flaw (or faulty part) for it to be this bad. That said, my launch 360, somehow still is going strong.  thumbsup
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 10:28:53 PM by Hetz » Logged

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coopasonic
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2007, 10:28:34 PM »

It could be a few things:

1) Your luck blows
2) Microsoft thinks you pirated Windows and Office and are punishing you for it
3) You are the 21st century Job (the Bible one, not the Apple one)
4) Lupus
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 10:45:06 PM »

Sorry to hear that man, I cannot tell you how frustrated I would be frown
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2007, 11:17:56 PM »

Brother, my friend is on his 3rd Xbox360 and he was ready to go shotgunnin' when his 3rd one died last week.  I swear to god, I have never met someone that was so pissed off IRL before.
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2007, 11:24:07 PM »

Moisture in the basement?  I gotta say, 5 units is beyond the realm of statistical probability. There has to be a common cause. Are you buying them all from the same retailer? Do you leave them on 24/7? Got a cat that pisses in the vent?
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 11:25:31 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 20, 2007, 10:26:48 PM

That said, my launch 360, somehow still is going strong.  thumbsup

You just cursed yourself. It'll break tomorrow. biggrin
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Hetz
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 11:36:44 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on February 20, 2007, 11:25:31 PM

Quote from: Hetz on February 20, 2007, 10:26:48 PM

That said, my launch 360, somehow still is going strong.  thumbsup

You just cursed yourself. It'll break tomorrow. biggrin


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Crackdown is fun as hell. It can't happen. It won't happen. I won't let it.

Oh who am I kidding.....I'm doomed.

crybaby
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2007, 12:40:10 AM »

Well, someone has to be on the outside edge of that bell curve.

For what it's worth, I have a 360 that I procured in January of last year, and it's still humming along in good shape.  I thought it was on its way out this weekend, but a quick clear of the cache made all those unreadable discs readable again.

And it's not like it's been in pristine conditions either.  It's moved five times (MD to junior dorm to apartment to senior dorm to home to senior dorm), getting significant play in each place.
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Eightball
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2007, 12:54:55 AM »

Yeah you're into the realm of statistical improbability.

My first 360 fried, but it was because I was running it in a TV console stand.  With a closed back, and a glass door in front.

It got too hot and fried.  My fault, though.

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Do you actually go to College Park?
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2007, 12:59:25 AM »

Quote from: Eightball on February 21, 2007, 12:54:55 AM

Yeah you're into the realm of statistical improbability.

My first 360 fried, but it was because I was running it in a TV console stand.  With a closed back, and a glass door in front.

It got too hot and fried.  My fault, though.

Quote from: Clanwolfer
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Lots of people go to college for 7 years!   icon_wink

Do you actually go to College Park?

Ha!  No, the space in between senior dorm was for winter break.  I wasn't about to leave the 360 on its lonesome for a month.

Nah, I go to St. John's University here in elegant, spacious Queens, NY.  I cheer for the Terps out of geographical loyalty, (Penn State, which is the family favorite school, is too far, and UMES has too much suck), except in basketball where I'm now a Red Storm fan for obvious reasons.
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2007, 01:07:29 AM »

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 20, 2007, 09:47:24 PM

Came home with Crackdown... and my fourth 360 is crapping out. The graphics are glitching even on the dashboard now.

This is beyond the pale.

ON TO MY FIFTH

I THINK ITS TIME TO COMMENCE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT.

WTF! It's posts like these in this forum that are causing me to push my already delayed purchase of a 360 that much further into the future. It's becoming evident to me that M$ is shipping refurbished 360's to customer that have returned defective 360's and that these refurbished units haven't been properly repaired. So in a nutshell; M$ is demonstrating a complete lack of quality control!

I want to buy a 360 when Mass Effect is released, but I'm thinking I'll wait until the 360 v.2 is available. Which is exactly what I did with the original XBox; waited until the release of the Controller S series and avoided some of the initial issues. I'm also now sure I'll be buying the longest replacement warranty available and will plan on selling off my 360 before it expires. Then I'll just repurchase a new one.
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2007, 01:14:20 AM »

I am of the opinion that people should NOT wait, if on the fence. The odds of you having a problem are smaller by the week and I don't see how waiting until a "new version" (when the new version might just repeat a few of the problem sover again) helps. I know around 10 people with 360's (most of them friends I work with) and only 2 have had issues that required sending theirs back, one of which has gone through 2 different replacements.

Now, that said, I think it is shameful that Microsoft doesn't replace these bad 360's with new ones. Why would you want to send out 360's that were broken at some point, to customers that are already pissed off? If Joe Blow has a 360, under warranty, that breaks on him, he should get a new one back.......end of story.
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2007, 01:21:25 AM »

Yeah, I wouldn't wait for a brand-new SKU of the Xbox to come out and jump on the bandwagon then; it's just like buying the first-run of a new piece of hardware then.  The time to buy is just before a new SKU comes out, or even better, buy the old one after the new one is out.  That way it's battle-tested, you're getting the later runs of parts (with probably the lowest failure rates), and incremental improvements to boot (quieter optical drive, anyone?)
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2007, 01:29:25 AM »

My launch  day console died on Feb.3 and I still haven't got the box to send it back yet! I'm in Ontario, Canada, maybe this makes a difference in how fast the turnaround is? I've read some people saying they got new machines inside a week. I really wish MS would just send you a new console or a refurbed one in the box they send you so you could jut swap em. For $140 I expect faster service.

I have a feeling I'll get a working 360 back in May.
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2007, 01:31:27 AM »

I hate to pull a Kobra, but I'm glad I got my 360 at Costco. When my launch unit died after 9 months, I was able to return it for a brand new one, thus avoiding the fiasco of getting sent a refurbished unit by Microsoft. I'm hoping this means I'm less likely to experience another console failure, but even if it does crap out, I can always return it to Costco again for a new one.
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2007, 01:37:18 AM »

Quote from: Eightball on February 21, 2007, 12:54:55 AM

Yeah you're into the realm of statistical improbability.

My first 360 fried, but it was because I was running it in a TV console stand.  With a closed back, and a glass door in front.

It got too hot and fried.  My fault, though.

So from now on we shouldn't expect our consoles to work if placed in a TV console stand???
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2007, 01:38:15 AM »

Quote from: Clanwolfer on February 21, 2007, 01:21:25 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't wait for a brand-new SKU of the Xbox to come out and jump on the bandwagon then; it's just like buying the first-run of a new piece of hardware then.  The time to buy is just before a new SKU comes out, or even better, buy the old one after the new one is out.  That way it's battle-tested, you're getting the later runs of parts (with probably the lowest failure rates), and incremental improvements to boot (quieter optical drive, anyone?)

Hmm...fair enough, I have thought of that. But I must say, other than the fact that it's DD 5.1 output isn't compatible with my home theatre, I haven't had a single issue with my controller S series XBox and it's almost 4 years old.  thumbsup  And I do believe I purchased it just around the time when it was the new SKU on the block.
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2007, 02:16:39 AM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on February 21, 2007, 01:37:18 AM

So from now on we shouldn't expect our consoles to work if placed in a TV console stand???

If the exhaust is blocked, it'd be like expecting your car to work with a potato shoved up the tailpipe.  Like it or not, heat management is a fact of life for most advanced electronics.
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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2007, 03:14:11 AM »

Quote from: noun on February 20, 2007, 11:24:07 PM

Moisture in the basement?  I gotta say, 5 units is beyond the realm of statistical probability.

I'm not so sure of that...how many people are on their third? *raises hand*
How many of those 5 were purchased brand new and how many were MS refurbs?
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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2007, 03:20:43 AM »

Quote from: Misguided on February 21, 2007, 03:14:11 AM

Quote from: noun on February 20, 2007, 11:24:07 PM

Moisture in the basement?  I gotta say, 5 units is beyond the realm of statistical probability.

I'm not so sure of that...how many people are on their third? *raises hand*
How many of those 5 were purchased brand new and how many were MS refurbs?

Yeah, it seems that MS has some severe QC issues with their refurb program and having a single broken console enters you into a sort of death spiral where you keep getting shipped faulty consoles over and over again.  It seems like that once you have the first console fail, your chances of subsequent failures skyrocket unless you are able to swap one out for a new one. 
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2007, 03:23:23 AM »

Quote from: kathode on February 21, 2007, 02:16:39 AM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on February 21, 2007, 01:37:18 AM

So from now on we shouldn't expect our consoles to work if placed in a TV console stand???

If the exhaust is blocked, it'd be like expecting your car to work with a potato shoved up the tailpipe.  Like it or not, heat management is a fact of life for most advanced electronics.

So I guess tv console stands are for unadvanced electronics?  icon_wink

All I'm saying is that I don't know of another console that had to be so babied in order to avoid malfunction issues (at least not a mainstream console). And even if you do everything right, the 360 is still prone to overheating. Is this is a common problem, why don't I hear about it with other mainstream electronics? I can understand something failing if every vent was covered up, but that's not the case here.

In Eightball's case, he shouldn't blame himself for his console failing because he put it in his tv console stand. We've grown to expect that we can put our game systems and dvd players and the like in similar areas without worrying about them failing. Did Microsoft expect that the average consumer would know that their console must be treated differently?
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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2007, 04:22:28 AM »

More transistors = more power = more heat. Add a hard drive and DVD on top of that and you've got yourself a little oven, so yeah enclosed TV stands are not for advanced electronics. I keep the front door of my entertainment center open when I'm playing the 360 and it still gets pretty toasty. I'm trying to figure out the best way to replace the fake wood back with something that looks reasonable and allows air flow as well as my DVR is running 24x7 and I can't keep the door open there... I suppose I could remove the front glass but that kind of spoils the look. It's the sort of thing we enver thought about when buying our entertainment center... but times change. We enver thought we'd have radiators in our PCs either, or fans on our video cards or KW power supplies.

R-W, there aren't a whole lot of other mainstream electronics that do what the 360 does. Honestly I'm impressed the PS3 doesn't seem to have the same issues. Maybe it's the magic of the Cell processor or something else. Maybe MS needs to look into whatever magic Sony put in there. slywink
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« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2007, 04:32:19 AM »

Quote from: coopasonic on February 21, 2007, 04:22:28 AM

More transistors = more power = more heat. Add a hard drive and DVD on top of that and you've got yourself a little oven, so yeah enclosed TV stands are not for advanced electronics. I keep the front door of my entertainment center open when I'm playing the 360 and it still gets pretty toasty. I'm trying to figure out the best way to replace the fake wood back with something that looks reasonable and allows air flow as well as my DVR is running 24x7 and I can't keep the door open there... I suppose I could remove the front glass but that kind of spoils the look. It's the sort of thing we enver thought about when buying our entertainment center... but times change. We enver thought we'd have radiators in our PCs either, or fans on our video cards or KW power supplies.

R-W, there aren't a whole lot of other mainstream electronics that do what the 360 does. Honestly I'm impressed the PS3 doesn't seem to have the same issues. Maybe it's the magic of the Cell processor or something else. Maybe MS needs to look into whatever magic Sony put in there. slywink

Personally I think it is because Microsoft went the cheap route with regards to manufacturing. Flat out, they either chose to skimp of heat management, use cheap parts or didn't engineer it properly to begin with. Many advanced electronics, as you point out even the PS3, don't have these issues. I love playing games on my 360, but I worry every time I turn it on that I am going to get a red light of death.
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« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2007, 06:22:06 AM »

sorry to hear yer bad luck,when i first got mine it kept 'crashing' or whatever todays term is for it...but it was because i had the power brick directly behind the 360,so i moved the power brick to the shelf above and all was well,but 8 months later the disc tray wouldnt close,for all its worth i was quite happy with how they took it of my hands and handed it back to me within the week,but i guess it shouldnt have to go there in the first place...thankfully it has been fine ever since(although it sounds terrible when i try to play KOTOR on it)

my Wii isnt much better really,that often freezes,and i have to unplug it and then plug it back in...but nothing more serious than that yet
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« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2007, 08:16:39 AM »

Quote from: Clanwolfer on February 21, 2007, 01:21:25 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't wait for a brand-new SKU of the Xbox to come out and jump on the bandwagon then; it's just like buying the first-run of a new piece of hardware then.  The time to buy is just before a new SKU comes out, or even better, buy the old one after the new one is out.  That way it's battle-tested, you're getting the later runs of parts (with probably the lowest failure rates), and incremental improvements to boot (quieter optical drive, anyone?)

I don't really agree with that at all.  when the DS Lite came out, would you really have recommended someone still buy the old DS?
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« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2007, 08:22:12 AM »

Quote from: KePoW on February 21, 2007, 08:16:39 AM

Quote from: Clanwolfer on February 21, 2007, 01:21:25 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't wait for a brand-new SKU of the Xbox to come out and jump on the bandwagon then; it's just like buying the first-run of a new piece of hardware then.  The time to buy is just before a new SKU comes out, or even better, buy the old one after the new one is out.  That way it's battle-tested, you're getting the later runs of parts (with probably the lowest failure rates), and incremental improvements to boot (quieter optical drive, anyone?)

I don't really agree with that at all.  when the DS Lite came out, would you really have recommended someone still buy the old DS?

This is assuming someone doesn't have a compelling reason to upgrade.  I hardly think that a new 360 SKU (with bigger HDD and an HDMI-out) would be as big a jump for most as the DS to DS Lite.
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« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2007, 08:41:57 AM »

Quote from: Clanwolfer on February 21, 2007, 08:22:12 AM

Quote from: KePoW on February 21, 2007, 08:16:39 AM

Quote from: Clanwolfer on February 21, 2007, 01:21:25 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't wait for a brand-new SKU of the Xbox to come out and jump on the bandwagon then; it's just like buying the first-run of a new piece of hardware then.  The time to buy is just before a new SKU comes out, or even better, buy the old one after the new one is out.  That way it's battle-tested, you're getting the later runs of parts (with probably the lowest failure rates), and incremental improvements to boot (quieter optical drive, anyone?)

I don't really agree with that at all.  when the DS Lite came out, would you really have recommended someone still buy the old DS?

This is assuming someone doesn't have a compelling reason to upgrade.  I hardly think that a new 360 SKU (with bigger HDD and an HDMI-out) would be as big a jump for most as the DS to DS Lite.

I'm a little confused... are you talking about people who already have a 360.v1 and an old DS, or people who don't have either?

well, either way I would still personally get a DS Lite or a 360.v2 when they first came/come out
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« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2007, 12:20:43 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 21, 2007, 03:20:43 AM

Quote from: Misguided on February 21, 2007, 03:14:11 AM

Quote from: noun on February 20, 2007, 11:24:07 PM

Moisture in the basement?  I gotta say, 5 units is beyond the realm of statistical probability.

I'm not so sure of that...how many people are on their third? *raises hand*
How many of those 5 were purchased brand new and how many were MS refurbs?

Yeah, it seems that MS has some severe QC issues with their refurb program and having a single broken console enters you into a sort of death spiral where you keep getting shipped faulty consoles over and over again.  It seems like that once you have the first console fail, your chances of subsequent failures skyrocket unless you are able to swap one out for a new one. 

This is exactly what I suspect is going on. You don't get shipped a "new" console if you go through MS. You get shipped a refurbished one-and obviously the quality of these is seriously suspect.
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« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2007, 01:58:54 PM »

UPDATE: I was able to play last night. The problem is intermittent. Which leads me to believe your instincts are correct, its a quality control issue with the crap they keep sending me. Seeing as its intermittent, they tested it for a few moments and send me this crap.
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« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2007, 02:20:31 PM »

yeah I think it is the units Microsoft is sending as replacements also. I decided after posts like this to just buy the EB replacement warranty since I think best buy just does repair warranty and I dont want to have these issues. so far I have had no problems but if I do I will get a brand new replacement not some crappy refurb. I love my 360 but they need to improve their service of defective units
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« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2007, 02:39:25 PM »

Hank, sorry to hear about the problems you've had.

Since Costco doesn't take loss on hardware returns (they get shipped back to the mfgr at the mfgr's cost), why not pick up a 360 there, and return your dead one? I know some people think of it as unethical, but since Costco doesn't care, and all you're doing is finding a different way to ship a defective console back to MS, I don't see why not.

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on February 21, 2007, 03:23:23 AM

So I guess tv console stands are for unadvanced electronics?  icon_wink
All I'm saying is that I don't know of another console that had to be so babied in order to avoid malfunction issues (at least not a mainstream console). And even if you do everything right, the 360 is still prone to overheating. Is this is a common problem, why don't I hear about it with other mainstream electronics? I can understand something failing if every vent was covered up, but that's not the case here.
In Eightball's case, he shouldn't blame himself for his console failing because he put it in his tv console stand. We've grown to expect that we can put our game systems and dvd players and the like in similar areas without worrying about them failing. Did Microsoft expect that the average consumer would know that their console must be treated differently?

I know people who went through this many PS2's inside 2 years, (and I had two PS1's that had to be upside-down to work) although it's MS's QC on the refurbs that are running the current 360 failure rate higher. To be fair, PS2's offered no extended warranty. If it died, you were on the nut for it (unless it was less than 90 days). At least MS isn't saying "suck it up" and facing subsequent class action lawsuits. slywink

Consoles aren't calculators anymore. They aren't hardy pieces of equipment, and on the whole they are still sturdier than a PC which is effectively the same thing. People baby their HDTVs, I don't see why you wouldn't do the same for your system.

You'll also note that MS does provide a MANUAL with the consoles, and it states pretty clearly that airflow is required. Hell, most amps and PVR units need excellent airflow. If you have a cheaply made/poorly designed/user abused TV stand then you're risking problems with your systems (not just the 360).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 02:44:55 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2007, 07:56:40 PM »

Definately buying my new 360 from Costco  icon_eek
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Sean Lama
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