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Author Topic: Baseball Wars '05  (Read 20140 times)
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Devil
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« on: February 23, 2005, 08:26:02 PM »

Let the comparisons begin!

MVP vs. ESPN vs. MLB vs. Pennant Chase
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naednek
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2005, 01:59:46 AM »

MVP 2005 PC (getting ESPN for xbox)  Manual Sucks

There you go smile
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2005, 03:06:45 AM »

I'll add my 2 cents after 5 innings of MVP (Xbox).

-Graphics seem a little stuttery.
-Don't make any pitching mistakes at the higher levels (Mike Lamb took Colon deep TWICE)
-Slow throwing animations are killing me


I'll play some ESPN and get back to you...
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2005, 03:19:48 AM »

Extremely quick thoughts:

Played ESPN first...  liked it alot minus some things which the verdict is still out on, and may end up really pissing me off.  Too early to tell for sure.  Overall though, great game.

Played MVP second... got through maybe 6 innings when I realized it doesn't compare.   IMO, it's not nearly good enough to split my time with.  The fact that (in general) the OpSports forums are gaga over MVP is a bit unbelievable.  But hey, to each his own.

I will post more impressions of the ESPN (Take2's) game on Thursday.  I played enough games to give a half decent First Impressions on that one.

I won't even do that for MVP, as I didn't like it enough to play it enough to give any worthwhile feedback on.

LD
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2005, 03:27:43 AM »

i'm not too impressed.  I'm having a field day trying to baserun.  I have it on the pc, and using the Saitek P880.  I'm following the instructions and nothing is happening.
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2005, 05:06:41 AM »

OK - Played a full game of ESPN at the second highest level and the only thing I changed was the option to be more sim before the game starts...hmmm...

Chris Burke hit a HR of Kelvim Escobar in the 14th for a 1-0 Astros win.

Yep, you read that right, Kelvim Escobar in the 14th. Did I empty my bullpen? Nope. Kelvim was a horse tonight. He threw 146 pitches (only 11 balls), went the full 14 and K'd TWENTY SIX Astros. Still not good enough for the win.

In MVP I let up 11 runs in 5 innings. In ESPN I let up 1 in 14 innings.

My hitting is a problem in both games but that's my fault.

LOVE taking control of the baserunners in ESPN though!

I gotta do a little more research - Jury is still out.
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2005, 11:58:35 AM »

Quick Impressions of 2k5:

The graphics are great overall.  Some of the player faces are wonderfully done, while others are butt ugly.  That's why you will probably read both these things from fans.  Because they are both right.  It depends on the players.  The crowd looks good.  The stadiums look great overall, from the few I have seen.  Player models are (in general) outstanding.  Replays are (in general) fantastic.

The animations have certainly been improved from last year, however, there are still some real stinkers in there.  It's not that big a deal, cause most of the animations work just fine.  The new right-thumb-stick diving animations are really good.  Pitcher motion and batter swings are both done well.  Improvements over last year... absolutely!

The camera is an interesting animal.  Overall, I am not super happy with it to be perfectly honest, but it is certainly playable and I'm sure I'll get used to it.  Couple things here.  First is the zooming in the camera does on many of the plays to the field.  I know why this is done, and it makes sense, but it isn't my favorite thing.  See, when the camera zooms in, it gives you a much better chance of using the right-thumbstick to make a special play on the ball.  And when you do, it looks great.  Most of the time though, I think I would rather have it be zoomed out a bit more to let me see more of the field.  The bright spot is, if there is no way a play can be made, and the ball hits a gap, the camera will stay zoomed out much more to help you locate the ball.  It's not a game-killer, but does take some getting used to.  Especially compared to MVP's style of outfield cameras.  The second is the batter cam.  There are times when the ball gets by you and ends up in the catchers glove before it seems it should.  It's hard to explain.  Also, there are some balls that look like they are breaking out of the strike zone to be balls, and end up strikes.  Again, I think the ball is getting to the mit before it appears it should.  Hard to explain.  The fact that you can set the zoom level is real nice though, and the fact that you can have it zoom in even closer after the pitcher goes into his windup is great.  I will admit, once I get used to the whole pitch in the glove too quick thing, it will be probably be fine, but right now, I'm not a big fan.

The presentation of the game overall is very well done.  I DON"T think it's the second-coming-of-Christ great, like most people are saying, but it certainly is very good.  Very much like watching ESPN baseball.  The announcing is SO well done, you almost take it for granted.  It is just so fluid and real, you just don't even notice it.... until you plop in MVP as a comparison, then you remember JUST how great the announcing is.

The pitching options are nice.  I will say Kush deserves alot of credit for putting in the 4 different styles.  Personally, I think the meter pitching is total shit, but it was nice they put it in.  If I was forced to play with Meter Pitching, I would choose MVP's over this one any day of the week, and I'm not a big fan of MVP's either.  I like the Effort pitching still.  They slowed down the meter, which gives you more control of just how much power you want to put toward the pitch.  This is still a very viable option imo.  K-Zone... well... I freakin' love it.  I think it's implemented so well.  Different pitchers have different size sweet spots, different speeds the k-zone meters converge, etc...  The more tired, the harder it is to nail your pitches, and if the situation is a pressure one, it even gets tougher to hit your spots.  You even have a slider in the difficulty options to make the interface speed up if you are hitting your spots too easy.  I think I moved mine up 10 notches or so, and it's perfect for me.  I rarely hit it dead on.  Another bone of contention for me is pitch speed.  I keep messing with this overall slider to see where I want it.  It defaults at 15, which I think may be too low.  The fastballs aren't as fast as I'd like.  I'm thinking of settling on about 23, so at least they were close.  And it should be noted that each player can choose the pitching style they want when playing head-to-head, which is great.

The gameplay so far is a total mixed bag.  I have seen some really goofy errors the CPU has made already, and that is just NOT good.... at all!  So far, the weakest thing I have seen is how the A.I. deals with baserunners taking extra bases.  Sometimes, it just flat screws up.  It would take too long to describe the situations, just trust me, it makes some really critical errors at times.  Game-killer.... maybe.  The mixing of pitches seems great however.  Certain pitchers throw too many strikes when the AI is controlling them, but this can be adjusted easily.  Substitutions, sacrifice bunts, pinch running, pinch hitting, intential walking, etc... all seem to be fantastic.  No issues at all there.  The AI seems to have those things down in a great way.

The stats the game keeps on your team, your players, and even on YOU, the user, are just flat awesome.  I could not imagine ever wanting more than they give you.  Stat junkies, rejoice!  You will be in heaven.  Games are low scoring in general, like Devil said.  I mostly played as the Astros, but once I took the White Sox (another team I like) against them just to see what it's like to go against Clemens.  He smoked me.  But jeez, do the Astros players strike out alot.  Whether it's me or the computer controlling them... lots of K's.  They can't hit to save their asses in real life though, so I can deal with it.  Pitch counts for the guys I control are perfect.  Clemens is usually tired by the 6th inning.  However, because the computer throws so few balls (on default settings), the pitch counts are too low for the AI.  This can be fixed with sliders undoubtedly.  Everyone always wants to know if there are enough walks, sort of like are there enough foul shots in basketball games.  The answer is, no.  However, that is on default.  With slider adjustment, I don't see it being a problem.  I know for a fact that if I try to paint the corners using K-Zone or Effort pitching styles, I walk guys.  

If you have specific questions, you can ask me.  I can't answer any dynasty or league stuff, as all I have done is play games and tournaments.  I am sure the game will shine in dynasty and league mode, ESPN games always do.  But for me, I have to see if the game is even worth taking to that level first.  And the only way to do that is to play lots of games first.  And to be honest, I am not sure yet.  There are so many things you can tweak, it is too hard to figure out right now.

In summary, the game is fun, of that there is no doubt.  Am I "totally sold" on it?  Not in any way, shape, or form.  No way.  But I need to play more in order to decide.  The problem is that I have this sick feeling I am going to be dissapointed that it is not the game I was hoping it would be.

And I will continue to plug away at MVP in order to give some worthwhile impressions on that.  Who knows, it may grow on me as I uncover more stuff in 2k5 I don't like.  You never know.

LD
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 02:59:14 PM »

The post above is already too long... so here are some thoughts on possible things that may need tweaking:

1.  Hitter Contact Increased:  Reason being that there seem to maybe be too many strikeouts.  Also, the games may be a tad on the low scoring side.  

2.  AI Pitching Variability Increased:  Reason being there may be too many hits going right back to the pitcher because of too many balls thrown right down the middle.

3.  Pitching Speed Increased:  Reason being fastballs around 100mph should maybe be harder to hit.  When Wagner throws me a heater at 101, I want to almost not even see it.

4.  Outfielder Speed Decreased:  Reason being fielders seem to get to alot of balls that possibly shouldn't be gotten to.  It's exactly opposite from MVP, where everything falls into the gaps.

5.  AI Pitcher Strikes Thrown Decreased:  Reason being there may be too many strikes thrown, which in turn has the strike % (which is tracked btw) being too high, which in turn makes pitch count too low, which in turn means AI pitcher's aren't losing stamina fast enough.


Things that I am not sure can be addressed that are possible issues:

1.  Wild Pitches are a bit high.  Now, in all fairness, this ONLY seems to happen when a pitcher's confidence sinks into the abyss, but still, it can be annoying.

2.  AI making dumbass decisions regarding dealing with baserunners.  It only happens occasionally, but I don't see how this can be addressed with sliders.


More thoughts as they come to me.  This could be a quadruple post if I think faster than I get responses.

LD  :wink:
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2005, 03:15:27 PM »

Thanks Ponch!!

Now get to work on MVP!!
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2005, 12:58:48 AM »

OK - Played my first full game of MVP and, umm, it was kinda the opposite.

The fielding momentum is better but not good and the ball is REALLY tough to see on the ground in the outfield.

Lost to Toronto 24-5
Total K's for my pitchers: 1

I went from 26 in ESPN to 1 in MVP!

K-Rod let up 7 runs in an inning. He let up 2 HRs to match his total for the entire '04 season. All of that to Toronto!

Both games are going to need some more time...
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2005, 01:07:04 AM »

there used to be a website that helped with sliders etc.  anyone know of some that i could look to?

thanks
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Devil
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2005, 02:44:34 AM »

Jessie - Operation Sports usually has some great slider stuff...
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2005, 03:56:03 AM »

devil, that's the site i was thinking of.

you da man.  

or the evil diety...take yer pick.
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2005, 04:03:37 AM »

Either one is fine!

Glad I could help!  biggrin
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2005, 04:30:46 AM »

Reading this thread reminds me why I just can't get into action based baseball games.  Gimme a good season of OOTP for the PC instead.  I just don't think there will ever be an action based baseball game that will ever get it right.    Baseball is so perfectly ballanced.  It can't be simulated accuratly when accounting for human controll. I hope I'm wrong though.

Good luck guys.
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2005, 05:40:48 AM »

Quote from: "denoginizer"
Reading this thread reminds me why I just can't get into action based baseball games.  Gimme a good season of OOTP for the PC instead.  I just don't think there will ever be an action based baseball game that will ever get it right.    Baseball is so perfectly ballanced.  It can't be simulated accuratly when accounting for human controll. I hope I'm wrong though.

Well, I'm pretty sure both games have simulation engines in them as well where you never have to actually play a game.  It may not be as in-depth as OOTP, but the option is there.
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2005, 07:15:13 AM »

From reading the GameFAQs forums, you could save mid-game in ESPN 2K4, but you can't in 2K5.  I really wish the option were there, as I don't always have the 45 minutes to play a full game.  Do the others allow mid-game saves?
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2005, 11:13:19 AM »

Kush Games made the "ESPN" version this year, which is why there are quite a few things "missing" from this years version as opposed to last years version.  Sadly, some of the things missing should still be there.

----

If you plan on looking for sliders, I would seriously wait a few weeks before employing anything but basic corrections.  The morons on OpSports (with the few exceptions of course) tend to test most things with either the #1 or #2 pitcher 90% of the time when a game first comes out.  This results in sliders being tweaked in a ridiculous manner until they actually start their seasons, get to their #3,4,5 starters, and realize they dramatically overtweaked.  Just a helpful FYI.

-----

I played alot more last night.  I even spent some quality time with MVP'05.  The game is not as bad as I had originally spewed.  (What can I say, Devil must be rubbing off on me.  :wink: )  I even dipped my foot in the waters of Franchise Mode.   I will have some quick impressions soon I hope.    Suffice to say - both games bring things I like and dislike to the party this year... what's new?

LD
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2005, 11:48:06 AM »

Quote
The game is not as bad as I had originally spewed. (What can I say, Devil must be rubbing off on me.  )


See! I'm the one taking it nice and slow, not allowing the first inning to determine my thoughts and banish one game to the shit pile.  biggrin
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2005, 01:30:03 PM »

I can see that.  Perhaps it is time I change my sig. then.  You know, to reflect the "new you".

- - - -

Some incredibly quick thoughts about MVP'05:

The graphics in the game are passable.  They are not going to blow anyone away, but they are more than adequate.  EA has taken a more "cartoony" road than MLB2k5 has, which is fine with me.  That look never bothered me in the least.  But if you want the more realistic look, stay away from MVP.  Otoh...Stadiums look great.  Crowds are improved.  Menus are wonderful... I even prefer them to 2k5's (gasp!).  The fact is, the fonts are bigger and easier to read.  I am playing on my 36" flatscreen Sony Trinitron, which isn't the biggest tv in the world, but it certainly isn't small either.  The animations (by and large) are done extremely well.  This is an area EA has down, let's face it.  There are the exceptions, but they are few and far between.   The pitcher wind up and release is great, due in part to the different trajectories in regards to arm motion and quasi-release points.  (I say quasi, because technically release points aren't in the game, but the way pitching works, it's tough to notice that).  Diving catches in the outfield (although rare this year) are great!  Infielders react faster this year (as noted by Devil), due in part to faster animations, which are welcome.

The presentation of the game, again, is passable, but won't win any awards.  I am finding it extremely similiar to last year's game, which is fine.  It does apear to make games go a bit quicker than MLB2k5's games, mostly due to less "stuff" in the presentation.  The Pitcher/Batter interface is no-nonsense and straight forward.  I MUCH prefer MLB2k5's P/B's interface to MVP's though.  On the positive side, you can turn off the strike zone (unlike 2k5) and you can fade the ball cursor and the hot/cold zones after the first pitch  (how's your memory?).  The stat displays as batters walk up are simply not done as well as 2k5's.  The post game stats and boxscores are standard fare, and if you never played 2k5, would be more than happy with them.  But comparatively, 2k5 blows these away.  MVP did do alot of nice little changes when you hit the "white button" though, which shows you much more information that imo is needed when making certain decisions either on the mound or when up at bat.  Player stats are at your fingertips, so you know exactly what you're up against.  Last year it took going through too many screens to dig out that information, and most people are too lazy to do it.

The gameplay is a mixed bag.  Does that sound familiar?  :wink:  Well, it is.  I think it's easier to make contact with the ball in MVP than it is with 2k5, although this on default, so it's probably immaterial.  Scoring runs however is just as difficult.  The AI is much less forgiving if you mistake pitch.  The throwing meter can be adjusted for speed this year, which is nice.  I must admit, I made my meter quite a bit easier as I was missing my sweet spot far too often, and getting shellshocked when I first started playing.  I fixed that!   :wink:   Fielding in this game seems so different than 2k5.  Better?  Worse?  I don't know yet.  For now, let's just say different.  Another nice thing is you can adjust player throw speed, so if you feel the default throwing meters are too slow, simply adjust a slider, and the meter will crank to max very quickly.  Nice addition!  The outfield camera's are all good.  I like them all (except maybe Aerial, which is TOO far away from the action this year imo.)  But, if you want a blimp view, Aerial will give it to you baby... another nice feature.  The Pitcher/Batter interface is a bit odd.  There are lots of views to choose from, including last year's standard behind the batter view, which for me is just fine.  The ball seems to cross the plate smoother in this game than 2k5... hard to explain this.  I think I may prefer ball flight from pitcher's mound to batter in MVP over 2k5 this year.  2k5 almost seems to hiccup at times.  Maybe it's me.  One thing is for certain though... you will see many different kinds of hits in MVP that I am not yet seeing in 2k5.  I think I also like the hitting model in MVP more.  If you want to try for a Home Run ball, hold up on the controller.  But be warned... pulling a sinker in the bottom of the zone up to try and hit a dinger will result in some nasty wiffs at the plate quite often.    

MVP Meter Pitching vs. K-Zone:  As hard as it may be to believe, and contrary to what Moron-Central (OpSports) is spewing on their boards, there is more variability in hitting your spots in K-Zone than in Meter Pitching.  At least at default levels.  If you are off a bit in MVP's Meter, you will still come extremely close to your spot.  If you are off an equivalent amount in K-Zone, your ball will sail out of the strike zone or hang more often.  That is an absolute fact.  I use the same two teams for all my playing, so it is comparable.  In both games, if you completely miss the broad area sweet-spot... say goodbye.  Your meatball will be punished by the AI.  (especially against a good hitter).  I prefer K-Zone, but if I had to choose any Meter Pitching system I've seen, I am picking MVP's, so it's not like it sucks by any means.  MVP has a nice feature that can be enabled to have variable strike zones.  I believe (but may be wrong) that different Umpires will view close calls differently in regards to strikes and balls.  This will determine how much you can try to nail those corners when pitching if I'm correct, which is a sweet feature.  MVP also has the Batter's Eye... or whatever it's called.  Pitch type is noticable by the color of the ball for a split second before it gets to you.  Without going into detail... let's just say this is much MORE than a gimmick.  This is a fantastic addition to the game.  Click down the Left Thumbstick and see which colors represent which pitches available to the current pitcher, and you can sit on fastballs!  Fun shit!

In Summary, there are alot of things I like about MVP, just like last year.  I was one of the few (along with Scott) that defended this game when others... (cough... Devil...cough) were ripping it upside the head.  It feels so different that 2k5, that comparing them is really tough.  I would love to take the Pitcher/Batter interface and K-Zone from 2k5 and mix it with the smooth ball movements and Hitter's Eye from MVP.  I will dig into Franchise mode for both games a bit later.  From the brief stint I spent with MVP's Franchise last night, it appears to be basic, simple, easy to understand, and straightforward, without sacrificing too much depth... all things I like.  Lots more testing to determine the final thoughts on this though.  

Hopefully Devil and I will be able to play both online over the weekend, to give you our thoughts on the online component of both games.

LD
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2005, 04:52:37 PM »

Thanks Ponch!

I did think MVP was over-rated last year and the guys at OS might be deeper into the payroll at EA than the guys at IGN so it's no surprise what's going on in there.

All that being said, there is hope for MVP this year. I'm going to adjust the throw meter speed and some of the pitching meter, like you said, and see how it plays out.

2 Questions for you:

1) In MVP are you having a tough time picking up grounders through to the outfield?

2) In ESPN is there any way to change the fielding view? I didn't look that deeply into it and in my one game I had 26 Ks, so there wasn't much fielding going on anyway, but when the ball was hit, it seemed like the camera stayed back too deep and it was tough to get a good read on the flight of the ball.

Thanks!!

We'll play VERY soon!
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2005, 05:16:12 PM »

Answers for you:

1.  Absolutely.  The camera does not "zoom in" like 2k5, which makes it even more difficult I think.  I keep switching back and forth between the games also, which doesn't help.

2.  Nope.  The only thing you can do is enable/disable an option to keep the fielder in the camera's view.  If you read the explanation, one of them zooms in more, the other stays zoomed out.  I don't remember which is which.  Personal preference here methinks.

Both games have potential "issues" with picking up either ball flight and/or ball location, so it's not just you.  It also doesn't help that we are both flip-flopping back and forth between games, which consequently (at least for me), makes it harder to adjust to.

Looking VERY forward to playing.

- - -

Another note, while I'm thinking about it.  When I said earlier that I think I like MVP's hitting model better, that in no way means I dislike 2k5's.  In 2k5 on MoronSports boards, alot of people are complaining about hitting the ball constantly back to the pitcher.  Although I will agree it happens a bit too frequently, it is not NEARLY as bad as some of them make it out to be.  Due to TrueAim batting, if you decide NOT to move the stick, and keep it in the middle (which face it, lots of people do), unless the ball is pitched near the middle, your contact is going to suck.  It makes a world of difference to make contact where the pitch is thrown.  I will agree this makes it almost the same as cursor hitting and begs the question of "What is really the difference?".  To which I would answer... I'm not really sure there IS that big of a difference.  Which is part of the reason I personally think I enjoy MVP's "style" better.

Personally, I think TrueAim is probably more like real baseball in that you pre-pick an area you think the pitcher will eventually throw to and then you sit and wait for a pitch to come to that general area, then swing away.  

I just wish one game really sucked, so I could pick the other one and start really learning it.   That however does not appear to be the case.

Next up... Franchise Mode Quick Thoughts.

LD
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Larraque
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2005, 03:41:01 AM »

On MLB 2k5 Bugs:

Quote
Sometimes, it just flat screws up. It would take too long to describe the situations, just trust me, it makes some really critical errors at times. Game-killer.... maybe.


I do realize that this game was re-written from the ground up. In this case, the game is beautiful. But the damn game's AI is dumb as a donut.

I've had two instances of bad AI. One was just weird (recovering from a fielding error, no one ran after the ball...) and one was absurd (Runner on 2nd. Batter gets a fly ball. I catch it. Rather than the runner, you know, going back to 2nd. He just keeps RUNNING. With one out. What the hell????????)

I'm such a perfectionist when it comes to baseball. I have never seen a flawless arcade baseball game. Certain rules if they're not 100% I can live with (IE: Infield Fly Rule isn't implemented properly). But baserunning fundamentals is kind of a requirement for me.
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2005, 04:26:50 AM »

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I have never seen a flawless arcade baseball game.


This sums up the life of a sports gamer!

We get fun games, we get improved games and, every once in a while, we get great games, but we NEVER get flawless games.

 biggrin
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2005, 05:44:43 AM »

Picked up and played the hell out of MLB 2k5 today...I am very impressed.  The graphics are beautiful.  Bret Boone doesn't do a bat flip after a homer and Ichiro doesn't drag-hit, but eh, I can live with that.

I love the K-Zone pitching.  I really enjoy the Slam-Zone thing - It works so well.  You can make an error as a pitcher, and just like real baseball, maybe the batter will pick up on it (put the cursor over the ball to get into Slam-Zone itself) or miss it even still.  

I have experienced little bugs here and there...but every baseball game has them (as talked about above).  I'm really impressed with the game.
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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2005, 09:39:56 AM »

wow this espn game is awesome so much better than MVP.  Looks like i'll be trading/ebaying MVP
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2005, 06:42:43 PM »

I just saw 2K5 in Best Buy, and naturally bought it.  Will try to get a couple of games in and see what I think.

Anyone up for a game on Live?  Let me know!  Devil, you in particular!

Mike
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2005, 07:05:22 PM »

So, I think I've gotten a feel for how MLB2K5 compares to last year's version.  How does MVP compare to last year's version?  I really liked MVP on the PC, and if it's just more of the same, with more features, I'll probably pick it up again.  They didn't break anything, did they?

I'm not sure what I'll do about MLB2K5.  I got the ESPN game 2 years ago and really wanted to like it...but I just couldn't figure out how to pitch effectively.  I'd get smoked after a few innings every game.  It's a problem I've never had in a baseball game before, so I don't think it was due to a lack of pitching strategy knowledge on my part.   Tongue   I'll probably end up picking it up just because it's so cheap, though, unless those aforementioned baserunning errors are really common.
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2005, 07:18:01 PM »

Quote from: "Gwar21"
So, I think I've gotten a feel for how MLB2K5 compares to last year's version.  How does MVP compare to last year's version?  I really liked MVP on the PC, and if it's just more of the same, with more features, I'll probably pick it up again.  They didn't break anything, did they?

I'm not sure what I'll do about MLB2K5.  I got the ESPN game 2 years ago and really wanted to like it...but I just couldn't figure out how to pitch effectively.  I'd get smoked after a few innings every game.  It's a problem I've never had in a baseball game before, so I don't think it was due to a lack of pitching strategy knowledge on my part.   Tongue   I'll probably end up picking it up just because it's so cheap, though, unless those aforementioned baserunning errors are really common.


It's more of the same.  It's a bit cleaner, as far as tweaks go, but it's basically the same as last year, including the bad baserunning and the choppiness when throwing across the field.  

The Espn game from two years ago was totally different from last years.   Last year's from what I hear was a huge improvement (I didn't play the game from two years ago, last year ESPN 2K4 was my first time playing the series)  This year's ESPN was redone from the ground  up.  It's not the same engine as last years (unlike MVP) they revamped everything.  From my initial game I like what I see.  However like others have mentioned, if you hit a ball right at the pitcher, there is a 99% chance that he's going to catch it.
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« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2005, 03:39:09 AM »

Played alot more over the course of the night last night and the day today.  Played lots of Head-to-Head today with my nephew who also loves video baseball.

I find myself playing much more of MLB2k5 than MVP05.  Not because I necessarily "like it so much better", but more because it is difficult to "get into" MVP after playing MLB2k5.  The ESPN game is just so much more like playing real baseball, while MVP feels like more of an arcade game.  I am however still playing MVP05, and have not yet shelved it.  Mostly because I just love the fielding model in the game so much.  Let me try to explain the differences here.

MLB2k5 Fielding is almost like you are taking over the individual player who has a chance at making the play on the field.  The camera zooms in more to a smaller area, gives you about a second to use your right thumbstick button if needed, and lets you make the play.  You feel like one player doing your job.  Depending on where the ball goes in the field, you feel more like the player responsible for that one play.  You don't really get to see great ball flight paths, you get a zoomed in view of the player and are forced to execute.  You have two types of throws you can make with your fielder to the baseman.  A normal throw, and a potentially less accurate hard throw.  The chance of error is primarily based on statistics of the player in question, with a little input from the user based on what type of throw you pick.

MVP05 Fielding is almost like you are looking at things from a bird's eye, and you are the strategic commander of a group of 9 guys.  When the ball is hit into play, you take over one of those guys and make your way to the ball.  Once you have the ball, you pick the base to throw to, a throwing meter comes up, and you huck the ball to the correct baseman.  It is a much more "traditional" style of fielding.  The meters are different depending on the individual skills of the player in question.  If you have a fielder with a great arm, the meter will fill very quickly, and you will get the ball out of the glove and rope it to the baseman.  If you have a marshmellow arm, the meter will feel like it takes forever to fill up to power for a full strength throw.  Also, if you have a very accurate fielder, you will have a very small red zone in your meter, meaning you can huck it at full strength with little chance of a throwing error.  Conversely, if you have someone who is very error-prone making the throw, the red zone in the meter will take up half the meter.  So if you really want to huck it hard, be prepared for a possible crappy throw.  Personally, I think it's a brilliant system, and leaves the risk/reward decisions firmly in the hands of the user.  The statistics part of it is represented not only in random chance of error (like 2k5), but also in the meter itself.  [You can turn the meters off also, if for some reason you don't like them].

It's no secret I prefer MVP's camera, overall field general approach, great animations, ability to watch looping singles into the outfield, risk/reward throwing, etc... more than 2k5's approach.  That being said, I am not disliking 2k5's system nearly as much as I first did.  In fact, I am starting to get used to it and appreciate it for what it is.  The styles of fielding are just so different (in my eyes), that it is still really hard to compare them.

So, although MVP feels more arcadey, that does not mean it IS more arcadey as far as stats and such.  The stats are actually pretty good from a "realism" standpoint, especially as action/console videogames go.  But my nephew, after playing a game of each, prefers MLB2k5 so much more than MVP05, we mostly played the former.  We tried using K-Zone pitching against each other, but because the K-Zone aimer IS NOT faded out, and is on the screen at all times, even with the very intuitive and well thought out way of "faking out" your opponent, we used the Effort Meter pitching mode, and it works great (just as it did last year).  And, just to update an earlier post, I have now fully adapted to the ball flight from Pitcher's Mound to Batter in 2k5.  It simply took changing the camera to the standard behind the batter camera and taking the Zoom feature out.  Then manually zooming the camera to 95, which brings the camera closer to the batter.  Now things are hunky-dorey!

I still can plainly see both sides of fence of these two games.  So, a decision has yet to be made as to which game will get more of my playing time.  Although I am certainly leaning in the way of MLB2k5, the verdict is still out for me.  I still have not tested online play.  Not quite ready yet.

LD
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« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2005, 04:05:36 AM »

Quote from: "Lockdown"
And, just to update an earlier post, I have now fully adapted to the ball flight from Pitcher's Mound to Batter in 2k5.  It simply took changing the camera to the standard behind the batter camera and taking the Zoom feature out.  Then manually zooming the camera to 95, which brings the camera closer to the batter.  Now things are hunky-dorey!


I'll have to try that, the computer is killing me with low strikes that look like they're out of the zone because of the zoom.  btw how do you edit player names in season mode?  I want to change "Joe Strong" or whatever Barry's called, and it won't let  me because he isn't on my team.  which is bs btw.
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« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2005, 04:29:37 AM »

Ok, like lockdown I've also played more today and last night.  MVP has actually grown on me since my first reportings.  I finally figured out how to baserun but it still a bit cumbersome compared to MLB 2k5.  

Pitching:  I like MVP's style of pitching over MLB 2k5.  It just feels better.  While both share the similarity of hot/cold zones, MVP's meter makes it better.  Yes, ESPN has a meter that you can change to, but it still doesn't feel right.  The whole interface is so much smoother in MVP

Batting: I find MVP too easy to get on base, however I'm still on rookie difficulty.  But, I'm also on rookie level in MLB 2k5, but it's much harder to get on base.  So it's still quite comparable.  Swing animations is hit and miss (pun intended) in MLB 2k5, some look really good while others look awkward.

Fielding: This is a mixed bag.  I'm having a hard time deciding which game I like better as far as fielding goes.  MVP uses meters to gauge how fast and accurate your throws are.  However, MLB 2k5 does the same, but without any visual cues.  Throws are pressure sensitive.  The harder you press the more of a "line drive" the ball flight path is.  If throw off your bad foot you have a good chance on making your target.  Once again, some of the animations look off, but it doesn't affect gameplay, just cosmetics.

I like that you can use a limited turbo in MLB 2k5, but when controlling outfielders I press A which is turbo for baserunners, and end up diving, totally missing the ball.  The manual is a bit thin (not as bad as MVP), and I'm still learning all the details in the game.  By sharing time with both games, it's easy to get the controls mixed up.

Commentating:  The MVP crew does the broadcast for the SF Giants in real life.  I love them, but they sound so repetitive in MVP.  I like MLB 2k5's a lot better.

Presentation:  No doubt, MLB 2k5 wins this category hands down.  EA totally ignored that aspect of the game, which is pretty typical.

Overall, I tend to like MLB 2k5 a bit better, their GM mode is a lot better, and instead of focusing on the stadium aspects, it's more focused on players and the season.  MVP has some cool ideas, but at the end, MLB 2k5 shines.
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« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2005, 05:01:43 AM »

I found a game-killer bug in MLB 2K5 today. (Game killer as in my buddy was like 'that's stupid. Screw this game, lets play something else')

Runner on 3rd, two outs. Slow chopper down the third base line, which the pitcher picks up. Tosses over to first for the out. But the runner already crossed the plate...... and got credited for a run. (Tying the game in the 7th)

The two bugs I mentioned earlier (the baserunning ai being dumb and the ball rolling around randomly) were amusing, but not gamestopping (just annoying). But this one - what the hell do you do? I managed a home run in the 8th, which would have tied the game but it actually won the game, so that's just really freaking lame.

I also noticed that in season mode, there doesn't seem to be any pitcher fatigue. All my relievers always say 'rested', the day after they threw a 6 inning marathon... Is there something I need to turn on? (I'm playing on all star difficulty)
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Gwar21
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« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2005, 05:16:07 AM »

Hmm....I'm seeing reports of problems with excessive passed balls and wild pitches in MLB2K5: Example

Bill Abner even mentions seeing 4 in one inning.   :shock:   I know in the past he's seen problems in sports games that I never came across, though, so I don't know how much stock to put into this.  Have any of you come across what they're talking about?
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« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2005, 05:22:24 AM »

So many people have that passed balls issue...it doesn't happen very much at all for me....I've gone through games having zero, I've had two in one game...maybe I don't throw wild enough?  I'm not sure.
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« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2005, 05:24:26 AM »

In my 4 games 1 exb, and 3 GM mode, I've never seen any wild pitches.
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« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2005, 11:32:44 AM »

Regarding Wild Pitches:  I've seen them.  Alot!  The pitcher's I control don't throw them often at all, but the AI pitchers (ESPECIALLY WHEN UNDER LOTS OF PRESSURE), throw them too often.  I've had 4 in one inning as my max, which is obviously ridiculous.  If it is Rating Related, you know, like a composure rating that needs to be upped for all pitchers, then the Take2 group can take care of it in a roster patch.  That would be a simple fix.  However, I haven't researched it, and have no clue why it is happening so often.  Right now, I simply don't advance on the wild pitch.

Regarding Passed Balls: I have had zero problems with them.  They seem to happen infrequently, and since I play primarily with Brad Ausmus, who is a great defensive catcher, it should happen infrequently.  So I can't say I've seen a problem there yet.

Regarding No Fatigue in Season Mode:  Jesus, don't tell me that!  I haven't really dove into season mode yet (although I probably will play Franchise, not Season).  I would like to hear more on this if you can reproduce this error in Franchise Mode.  Please keep me posted on this.

Regarding Editing Players in Franchise Mode:  I haven't really looked into it, but I have no clue how to do it.  Anyone care to share?  I have noticed it doesn't seem you edit from any team related screens.  It appears you would edit from an overall Roster screen... is that true or false?  

This is Kush's first foray into baseball (I think), so problems are inevitable, but if you go into different forums around the net and start reading some of the issues people are having, it's enough to make you cry.  MLB2k5 has the potential of being one of the classic fuckups of the modern sports gaming world here.  It's still early, and some of these things may have workarounds, but Lord it is discouraging to read some of the problems people deeper into Franchise Mode are seeing.

Tread cautiously.

LD
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« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2005, 02:47:11 PM »

Quote
Runner on 3rd, two outs. Slow chopper down the third base line, which the pitcher picks up. Tosses over to first for the out. But the runner already crossed the plate...... and got credited for a run. (Tying the game in the 7th)


 Christ this happened in last years version as well. Only saw it a few times though and I think it was isolated to certain game modes or something. This is why I don't buy sports games for months anymore though. Too many times I find a bug I can't live with.

  Hopefully that was a fluke.....  :shock:
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naednek
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« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2005, 05:44:50 PM »

ok, I understand wild pitches, but what in the world is passed balls?
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« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2005, 05:56:20 PM »

Quote from: "naednek"
ok, I understand wild pitches, but what in the world is passed balls?


That's when the catcher can't handle a pitch, and it gets away from him.  The net effect is basically the same as a wild pitch, but the fault lies with the catcher instead of the pitcher.
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