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Dante Rising
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« on: September 12, 2008, 10:29:07 AM »

Hardware:

Nintendo DS - 518.3K
Wii - 453.0K
PlayStation Portable - 253.0K
Xbox 360 - 195.2K
PlayStation 3 - 185.4K
Playstation 2 - 144.1K

Software:

1. Madden NFL 09 (Xbox 360, EA Tiburon/EA) - 1.0M
2. Madden NFL 09 (PS3, EA Tiburon/EA) - 643K
3. Madden NFL 09 (PS2, EA Tiburon/EA) - 424.5K
4. Wii Fit (Wii, Nintendo EAD/Nintendo) - 394.9K
5. Mario Kart Wii (Wii, Nintendo EAD/Nintendo) - 328.7K
6. Wii Play (Wii, Nintendo EAD/Nintendo) - 200.2K
7. Soulcalibur IV (Xbox 360, Project Soul/Namco Bandai) - 174K
8. Too Human (Xbox 360, Silicon Knights/Microsoft) - 168.2K
9. Madden NFL 09 All-Play (Wii, EA Tiburon/EA) - 115.8K
10. Guitar Hero: On Tour (NDS, Vicarious Visions/Activision) - 111.2K


I don't really have any comments, other than I'm infuriated that Too Human did so poorly. The game is far from perfect, but it deserved to sell significantly better than ~170,000 units. I'm hoping those ridiculous "pile-on" reviews didn't slit the throat of the possible trilogy, because there is much to like in the game, and it can only get better if Silicon Knights is allowed to refine it on the second pass. It is certainly better than having another damned WWII FPS.

I also think it is safe to say that MS will wrap up the #2 spot this generation, and that is definitely a significant blow to the Sony Goliath. The price cut will push MS farther ahead, and they have some serious exclusive releases slated for the holiday season with things like Gears of War and Fable on the horizon. And with the release of Tales of Vesperia, Infinite Undiscovery, The Last Remnant, Fable 2, and Fallout 3 all in the same @#$@ quarter, RPG fans sure have no complaints on the Xbox.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 10:38:52 AM by Dante Rising » Logged
jersoc
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2008, 10:50:41 AM »

for 10 years in development too human should've been a better game. the demo was just awful. I have no sympathy for a horrible game, which it is. I really, really wanted it to be good. I love the action RPG genre. But my god, that was unplayable and I just played through Infinite undiscovery(which isn't a bad game, but it's far from perfect and my expectations).

The gap between madden on the 360 ps3 is astounding, I think. 400k more? That's gotta be bad news for ps3 developers. I mean, it's really no wonder more and more developers are ditching ps3 exclusive titles, capcom being the most recent. to me that screams people are buying that for a blu ray drive and nothing else. obviously i have nothing to fully back this up other than the fact that 360 SKUs have historically beaten the ps3 ones. not good news for sony. especially with this recent price drop on the 360 and sony's stubborn attitude towards one themselves. of course they'll just release a 1TB HDD sku at 600 bucks and call it a price drop. god they never learn.

yeah, im fairly certain everyone in america has 2 ds. i do, but one sorta broken. and wtf is driving the psp sales? it has to be the piracy there is just no games for that system.
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2008, 12:49:36 PM »

And PS3 moves back into last place in the major consoles. 

What's going on here with the constant shifting? 

Also, next month should be interesting to see how big of a jump- if any- the 360 has due to the price drop.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2008, 01:12:46 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on September 12, 2008, 10:50:41 AM

The gap between madden on the 360 ps3 is astounding, I think. 400k more? That's gotta be bad news for ps3 developers. I mean, it's really no wonder more and more developers are ditching ps3 exclusive titles, capcom being the most recent.

I go through this every month but that's just not true- those numbers are almost exactly in accordance with each console's install base.  The ratio of 360 to PS3 hardware in the US is just under 2:1.  The ratio of 360 to PS3 Madden sales is 1.7:1 so its sales on PS3 are exactly as one would expect. 

It does mean that it's not exactly profitable for third parties to be exclusive to Sony but also for MS as well- those PS3 Madden sales are $38.5 million in revenue for EA and no publisher is going to ignore a platform that can sell that much. I think that's a huge reason that the number of exclusivity announcements has gone way down this year- Sony or MS really need to pony up a lot of dough to make up for the potential lost sales on another platform.   
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Jumangi
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2008, 01:50:24 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 12, 2008, 01:12:46 PM

I go through this every month but that's just not true- those numbers are almost exactly in accordance with each console's install base.  The ratio of 360 to PS3 hardware in the US is just under 2:1.  The ratio of 360 to PS3 Madden sales is 1.7:1 so its sales on PS3 are exactly as one would expect. 

What is does show though(along with other games that have come out) is that allot of gamers are basically platform agnostic. They will buy the game on whatever system they have. They don't see themselves as just 'PlayStation gamers" If all MS does this generation is break that wall down which has been there since the PS1/PS2 then its an accomplishment IMO.
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Dante Rising
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 01:55:43 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on September 12, 2008, 12:49:36 PM

And PS3 moves back into last place in the major consoles. 

What's going on here with the constant shifting? 

Also, next month should be interesting to see how big of a jump- if any- the 360 has due to the price drop.

360 sales doubled over the opening weekend of the price reduction. The question  becomes will it be sustained? Based upon the upcoming holiday, I would guess we'll start to see a fairly good increase moving forward. I'd be surprised if the 360 didn't hit at least 300K-350K units this month.
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The Grue
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 01:58:29 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on September 12, 2008, 10:29:07 AM


I don't really have any comments, other than I'm infuriated that Too Human did so poorly. The game is far from perfect, but it deserved to sell significantly better than ~170,000 units. I'm hoping those ridiculous "pile-on" reviews didn't slit the throat of the possible trilogy, because there is much to like in the game, and it can only get better if Silicon Knights is allowed to refine it on the second pass. It is certainly better than having another damned WWII FPS.


Everything I have ever read says that review scores don't really affect game sales too much.  There are plenty of crappy games that sell well and wonderful games that don't.
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 02:00:25 PM »

Actually I am kind of surprised that Too Human cracked the top 10 at all given the lack of advertising by Microsoft, bad reviews, and general Dyack asshattery. 
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2008, 02:06:43 PM »

Now here's a question I'd love to know the answer of - there are more Wii consoles sold in the US than the 360 now. Why did the latest Madden do so poorly on the Wii verses the 360 and PS3?
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2008, 02:25:20 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on September 12, 2008, 02:06:43 PM

Now here's a question I'd love to know the answer of - there are more Wii consoles sold in the US than the 360 now. Why did the latest Madden do so poorly on the Wii verses the 360 and PS3?

I have the Wii version of Madden and find it incredibly easy on all but the highest difficulty mode.  I offered to trade it in the GT forums for either the 360 or PS3 versions and got no takers.  My guess is that the Madden fanbase is relatively hardcore.  They probably have both a 360 or PS3 and a Wii and then chose to get the 360 or PS3 version.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2008, 02:25:42 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on September 12, 2008, 01:58:29 PM

Everything I have ever read says that review scores don't really affect game sales too much.  There are plenty of crappy games that sell well and wonderful games that don't.

What's interesting is that evidently, prior to the release of the Force Unleashed demo, the Too Human demo was the most downloaded demo in XBL's history or somesuch with over a million downloads.  So there was obviously a ton of consumer awareness and interest in at least trying the game.  So what accounts for such a large discrepancy?  Did scores of people decide not to pick up the game based on their experience with the demo, was it reviews, etc?  

Quote from: Jumangi on September 12, 2008, 01:50:24 PM

What is does show though(along with other games that have come out) is that allot of gamers are basically platform agnostic. They will buy the game on whatever system they have. They don't see themselves as just 'PlayStation gamers" If all MS does this generation is break that wall down which has been there since the PS1/PS2 then its an accomplishment IMO.

I'd say the Wii is even more evidence of that- Nintendo went from third place to first in a single generation.  But I think the video game industry has been like this for quite a long time.  After being crushed in the 8 Bit wars, Sega made an incredible comeback it could be argued that they won the 16 bit war or, at the very least, was an enormously strong second.  But then the following generation Sony shows up brand new to the market and beats the living crap out of both Nintendo and Sega.  The PS1-PS2 transition has really been the only time in the past 20 or so years that a platform owner has been able to dominate overwhelmingly for two generations in a row.  

Quote from: Destructor on September 12, 2008, 02:06:43 PM

Now here's a question I'd love to know the answer of - there are more Wii consoles sold in the US than the 360 now. Why did the latest Madden do so poorly on the Wii verses the 360 and PS3?

Demographics of the target market- super casuals (ie those interest in Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Carnival Games, etc) and families aren't interested and those who are multi-console owners are naturally going to gravitate to the 360 or PS3 version of the game.  For a multi-platform game not to skew that way, it needs to overwhelmingly appeal to the first group in the same way that Guitar Hero does.

I will be interested in seeing how Force Unleashed stands up in the long run.  I think the 360/PS3 version will sell more (especially right out of the gate) , but I think the Star Wars family appeal could mean some really sustained sales for the Wii edition of the game for a while.  
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 02:37:43 PM »

168,000 bought Too Human.......167,500 are on ebay or at Gamestop for sale now. What a horrible, HORRIBLE, game.
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2008, 02:39:02 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on September 12, 2008, 01:55:43 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on September 12, 2008, 12:49:36 PM

And PS3 moves back into last place in the major consoles. 

What's going on here with the constant shifting? 

Also, next month should be interesting to see how big of a jump- if any- the 360 has due to the price drop.

360 sales doubled over the opening weekend of the price reduction. The question  becomes will it be sustained? Based upon the upcoming holiday, I would guess we'll start to see a fairly good increase moving forward. I'd be surprised if the 360 didn't hit at least 300K-350K units this month.

Agreed.

I have to admit, I purchased a second 360 (for the bedroom) due to the price cut.
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2008, 03:17:30 PM »

Just looking at the battle for second (a DIIIIIISTANT second), the reason we're not seeing PS3 titles in the top ten is because the user base is smaller.  From Jack's mouth:

Quote
Madden 09 sold 634k units on the PS3 representing a 33% higher attach rate while PS3 owners picked up 263k units of SCIV resulting in a 38% higher attach rate.

And he's got a point.  Sony needs to sell hardware, and they're not going to do that until the price is DROPPED.  Consumers don't want to pay $399, so instead of increasing HD capacity for "a better deal", just DROP THE PRICE.  Quit being so stubborn and get into the game, blargh!

Because this holiday, while the PS3 has exclusives, brands like Resistance 2 and LittleBigPlanet don't compare to Gears of War and Fable.

Although, I kind of think Socom is going to give them a big bump - there are some DEDICATED Socom fans out there...

Nintendo keeps dominating, man, what a difference a generation makes.
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« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2008, 03:41:48 PM »

A few surprises for me this month. I really expected the PS3 to sustain 200+ monthly for the rest of the year, so the dip raised my eyebrows. I'm also surprised that MLB Power Pros 2008 didn't crack the NPD top 10 for either the PS2 or Wii platform. I'm sure it'll no doubt be somewhere in the top 20, but the number must still be disappointing to Konami. I also didn't expect Mario Kart to have as much staying power as it's showing and it's interesting that Soul Calibur IV seems to be bucking the 360 games trend of splash and disappear. And considering the DS now has a huge install base in the US the perormance of GH On Tour is less than stellar.

Quote from: Destructor on September 12, 2008, 02:06:43 PM

Now here's a question I'd love to know the answer of - there are more Wii consoles sold in the US than the 360 now. Why did the latest Madden do so poorly on the Wii verses the 360 and PS3?

This is actually the 1st year that the Wii version cracked the NPD top 10. I don't think EA will be terribly disappointed by it's numbers, especially considering it's developed by a much less costly dev team than Tiburon. As well the Wii version had a significant sales bubble last Holiday season -even cracked the NPD top 20 for December- and it's rebound could be bigger this year. I think KG's correct about the demographic being a major part of it and those fans owning other consoles. I think what's a much bigger concern is why didn't the PSP version crack the top 10. The PSP is after all the handheld of choice for sports gamers. That can't be good news for Sony in terms of 3rd party support.

I agree with other people here that the latest 360 price cut will get it back into the 200+ range. Now that it's price competitive with the Wii, it's going to be interesting to see if it gets close to it's sales numbers.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 03:50:24 PM by kronovan » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2008, 03:47:23 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on September 12, 2008, 03:41:48 PM

I think what's a much bigger concern is why didn't the PSP version crack the top 10. The PSP is after all the handheld of choice for sports gamers. That can't be good news for Sony in terms of 3rd party support.

PSP software sales suck.  I believe that March's release of FF7 and GoW was the first time PSP software charted since GTA: Liberty City Stories way back in December 2005.  That's 2.5 years without a single title in the Top 10!
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2008, 03:52:47 PM »

Drop the price of your Playstation 3, Sony.  Drop it by $100 and that will make it sell like hotcakes.  They have everything going for them - great currently released exclusives, great-looking rest of the year (LBP, Resistance 2, Motorstrom 2, SOCOM, Wipeout, Valkyria Chronicles, etc.), your online service is actually improving very much so (the voice comm in SOCOM is perfect and so has NHL 09's voice comm), the games being released on each console are coming closer together in graphical comparisons...

But the price.  The price is the one thing that is deterring people from picking up a PS3.

Drop it $100, throw in a DS3, throw in a Batman: The Dark Knight bluray sometime in December... that's a bundle people would buy.
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2008, 04:03:05 PM »

Quote from: depward on September 12, 2008, 03:52:47 PM

Drop it $100, throw in a DS3, throw in a Batman: The Dark Knight bluray sometime in December... that's a bundle people would buy.

On 1st glance at this I had a WTF moment. My thoughts were; why would Sony bundle in a competitors product and if the DS3 is out what happened to the DS2!!  icon_lol

BTW Why are you mocking the Canucks logo in your avatar? Or is that strange critter supposed to your NHL 09 ' be a pro' player?
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2008, 04:07:48 PM »

Quote from: depward on September 12, 2008, 03:52:47 PM

Drop it $100, throw in a DS3, throw in a Batman: The Dark Knight bluray sometime in December... that's a bundle people would buy.

That would make it an instabuy for me, no questions asked.
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2008, 04:10:54 PM »

What blew me away was that PS2 Madden sales were almost as high as PS3 Madden sales. Are these people who would love to buy a PS3 if it just cost less? Could be...
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2008, 04:12:28 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on September 12, 2008, 04:03:05 PM

Quote from: depward on September 12, 2008, 03:52:47 PM

Drop it $100, throw in a DS3, throw in a Batman: The Dark Knight bluray sometime in December... that's a bundle people would buy.

On 1st glance at this I had a WTF moment. My thoughts were; why would Sony bundle in a competitors product and if the DS3 is out what happened to the DS2!!  icon_lol

BTW Why are you mocking the Canucks logo in your avatar? Or is that strange critter supposed to your NHL 09 ' be a pro' player?

Canucks logo because I'm a Canucks fan and the 'strange critter" is definitely not my be a pro player (because that player is... me) but is a sackboy.
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2008, 04:22:13 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on September 12, 2008, 04:10:54 PM

What blew me away was that PS2 Madden sales were almost as high as PS3 Madden sales. Are these people who would love to buy a PS3 if it just cost less? Could be...

I've thought about this in the past and I actually don't think it's the case. Based on what I've seen in the number trends it looks more like last gen PS2 owners will skew in the direction of increased Wii sales. You have to remember that last gen, despite there being less differention between the 3 consoles, the PS2 was still the choice of the casual gamer. That's not to say it didn't have many hardcore gamers, just that a majority of the entire install base weren't. So will sales of a particular PS2 title eventually translate into increased PS3 sales or Wii sales? IMHO it's still a bit up in the air.
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2008, 04:25:59 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 12, 2008, 02:37:43 PM

168,000 bought Too Human.......167,500 are on ebay or at Gamestop for sale now. What a horrible, HORRIBLE, game.

pretty much agree with you,the story i am interested in,the graphics are decent enough,but the actual gameplay..is uninspiring to say the least...took me 3 hrs to get through the second level(if you want to call it a level),and it just consisted of wave after wave of enemies for you to kill...very boring..CVG called it 'nothing more than a dungeon crawler'..spot on..but that still makes me unhappy,i had been looking forward to the game for awhile


as for these sales i am looking at the Xbox 360...this is before the recent pirce drop,right?..so next months should be interesting to see
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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2008, 04:52:07 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 12, 2008, 02:39:02 PM

I have to admit, I purchased a second 360 (for the bedroom) due to the price cut.

I'm seriously considering doing this as well.

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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2008, 05:02:12 PM »

Quote from: depward on September 12, 2008, 03:52:47 PM

Drop it $100, throw in a DS3, throw in a Batman: The Dark Knight bluray sometime in December... that's a bundle people would buy.

Dude.  That is a hot bundle.  And would seriously sell like mad-crazy.  I'm reading the release date as Dec. 16th, which may be really close to Christmas, but allows for a solid week of sell, sell, sell.

Wish we had a really detailed breakdown of everything, you know?
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« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2008, 06:19:47 PM »

Quote from: TheMissingLink on September 12, 2008, 05:02:12 PM

Quote from: depward on September 12, 2008, 03:52:47 PM

Drop it $100, throw in a DS3, throw in a Batman: The Dark Knight bluray sometime in December... that's a bundle people would buy.
Dude.  That is a hot bundle.  And would seriously sell like mad-crazy.  I'm reading the release date as Dec. 16th, which may be really close to Christmas, but allows for a solid week of sell, sell, sell.

That's an amazing bundle. Which is why we'll never see it. It makes too much sense (ESPECIALLY the price cut part). DROP THE PRICE, Sony.
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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2008, 06:47:56 PM »

TDK might be a challenge- it's a Warner Bros movie so Sony would be paying wholesale on each copy they bundle. 
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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2008, 07:10:25 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 12, 2008, 06:47:56 PM

TDK might be a challenge- it's a Warner Bros movie so Sony would be paying wholesale on each copy they bundle. 

Just shatter our dream, why don't ya?

 crybaby

Didn't think about that, though.

Looks like the Madden PSP bundle didn't do anything to affect numbers...
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« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2008, 05:21:01 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 12, 2008, 02:25:42 PM


I'd say the Wii is even more evidence of that- Nintendo went from third place to first in a single generation.  But I think the video game industry has been like this for quite a long time.  After being crushed in the 8 Bit wars, Sega made an incredible comeback it could be argued that they won the 16 bit war or, at the very least, was an enormously strong second.  But then the following generation Sony shows up brand new to the market and beats the living crap out of both Nintendo and Sega.  The PS1-PS2 transition has really been the only time in the past 20 or so years that a platform owner has been able to dominate overwhelmingly for two generations in a row.  

Only Sega fanboys think that. Outside of a year or so sales comparisons Sega didn't compete over the long haul with the SNES which was the clear winner in sales for the 16bit generation. So you had Nintendo for 2 and then Sony for 2 generations.
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« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2008, 02:53:32 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on September 14, 2008, 05:21:01 AM

Only Sega fanboys think that. Outside of a year or so sales comparisons Sega didn't compete over the long haul with the SNES which was the clear winner in sales for the 16bit generation.

Not true, at least in North America.  Sega and SNES were neck in neck from about 1991 to 1995 when Sega essentially jumped out of the market, stopping Genesis production, to focus on the disastrous Saturn and Nintendo kept the SNES in the market even after the launch of N64 and reaped some really nice sales from that point on.  Final NA sales numbers were 23 million SNES vs 20 million Genesis.   However Sega was beaten soundly in Japan and Europe. 
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« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2008, 04:13:24 PM »

Call Kevin a fanboy again.  I dare ya!
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« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2008, 04:35:29 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 14, 2008, 02:53:32 PM

Quote from: Jumangi on September 14, 2008, 05:21:01 AM

Only Sega fanboys think that. Outside of a year or so sales comparisons Sega didn't compete over the long haul with the SNES which was the clear winner in sales for the 16bit generation.

Not true, at least in North America.  Sega and SNES were neck in neck from about 1991 to 1995 when Sega essentially jumped out of the market, stopping Genesis production, to focus on the disastrous Saturn and Nintendo kept the SNES in the market even after the launch of N64 and reaped some really nice sales from that point on.  Final NA sales numbers were 23 million SNES vs 20 million Genesis.   However Sega was beaten soundly in Japan and Europe. 

I said 16 bit generation. Your picking out just NA. Games and systems were sold elsewhere. So no my point still is valid. Nintendo was the clear winner in the 8 bit and 16 bit generations. Sony was the last two.
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« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2008, 05:55:45 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on September 14, 2008, 04:35:29 PM

I said 16 bit generation. Your picking out just NA. Games and systems were sold elsewhere. So no my point still is valid. Nintendo was the clear winner in the 8 bit and 16 bit generations. Sony was the last two.

Um, well, this is the NPD thread, which is NA only (actually this is just the US) so that seems pretty darn relevant to me.  However you want to cut it, my broad point is 100% correct- different console makers have been able to drastically change their fortunes from generation to generation, implying that the market isn't as brand driven as one may think.  There is no denying that Sega had a tremendous boost in success in the 16 bit generation compared to their performance in the 8 bit generation. 

Further, NA is the most relevant comparison since you specifically cited MS making gamers platform agnostic and NA is the only market MS has had any success in.  I agree with you original point that gamers are pretty platform agnostic but I think that occured far earlier than MS's entry into the console race. 

Quote from: warning on September 14, 2008, 04:13:24 PM

Call Kevin a fanboy again.  I dare ya!

It is funny being called a Sega fanboy since I sat out most of the 16 bit genertion once I got my PC in 1993 and never owned a Saturn and only bought a Dreamcast in 2005. 
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