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Author Topic: anyone getting Prince of Persia - Warrior Within?  (Read 6837 times)
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ElijahPrice
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« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2004, 03:00:20 PM »

Played last night for a little while and its not too shabby [XBOX].  I am about to dive in again for a few hours before football hopefully.  So far:

Cut Scene Graphics - In the tent with the old man looked great and the story intrigues me big time.

Cut Scene Placement - Kinda forced and jagged when it splits to cut scenes sometimes.  Annoying but not a back breaker by any means.

Slow Motion Slicing - not too impressed with this.  I don't think the graphics look good enough to slow down and really enjoy this unless its when you are surrounded.  Sometimes seems forced into a fight.

New Combat - I didn't play SoT but I already find myself doing the same moves over and over again.  But I am sure I will learn more.

Dual Wielding - Now that is a nice addition to the combat system.

Camera - ah, its okay for now.  A few parts bother me, but I read about this happeneing before buying andyways nad expected a few issues.

Scripting - Alright, when the Prince yells at Shahdee "You bitch!" I wanted to laugh.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2004, 12:47:14 AM »

Put in an hour or so and I'm not very impressed.  The music is just godawful.  Other sounds are pretty weak too- the game just lacks some "oomph."

The new combat seems deeper but isn't really any more fun than the old system IMO.

The platforming is excellent but short of sliding down curtains I haven't seen anything new.

Environments are very pretty but the game seems lacking of the inspired design the first game had. In SoT each environment had a specific logical function as part of the Palace.  Here there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the areas so it all blends together.  

The game looks to be pretty big, though, judging from the map screen.

Definitely not a bad game but, honestly, it just makes me want to replay the first one.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2004, 04:54:31 PM »

Don't laugh, but I picked this up over the weekend. I couldn't help myself. It's a new Prince of Persia game and the Sands of Time was such a great game. I think it helped having played the demo and so I could brace myself for the horrible music and voice acting. Maybe it's just a sign of how far my expectations had fallen for the game, but I'm enjoying parts of it. However, I do think I'm enjoying the game in spite of  the developers, rather than because of them.

First off, as everyone else has mentioned the sound is just god-awful. The music completely sucks and it's unfortunate that there is no way to turn it off completely. But it's not just the music either. The sound effects are terrible, and the voice acting is even worse. The new actor for the Prince would be bad in any game, but he's really bad in comparison to the actor from the SoT. And it doesn't help that the dialog is completely stupid too.

The other thing that is a real step down is the graphics. The thing I loved about Sands of Time was the animation. Everything was fluid and it was almost impossible to find any missing transitions. Warrior Within is just the opposite. There's a number of moves where the Prince will finish a move and then I'll see a "skip" where the Prince flickers and then just reappears  in the middle of his next move.

I'm actually liking the combat in this game somewhat. Some of the designs for the monsters are really nice and fit the tone of the game. I read a preview where one of the developers said that they wanted to integrate the environmental traps into the gameplay and sometimes it really works. There's one part where I led four monsters onto a trap and activated it, killing them instantly. That was very satisfying. The new combo system is the weakest part of combat, however. In most cases, button mashing does the job fine and the controls aren't as responsive as Ninja Gaiden or similar games. If they would have concentrated on the traps and not bothered with the combo system combat would be a lot stronger.

Finally, I'm glad that the game retains the environmental puzzles. The ratio of platforming to combat has been fine so far. I also like that they've kept the big, atmospheric environments. They didn't add very many new moves, but frankly I enjoyed the platforming in the first game so much that I'm happy for more of the same now.

I really sandbagged this game in the months leading up to its release. It isn't the complete disaster that I was afraid of, and there are even times that I can really get in to it. Unfortunately, that's usually just when the female enemy I'm facing screeches, "Hurt me Prince, HURT ME MORE!" Then I just wince and plow forward.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2004, 05:02:56 PM »

I thought you were being unusually silent on the game Andrew smile

What' sad about the game is that a lot of the core design is pretty good and the concept itself fits in very well with the first game and is a natural segue into taking the game in a darker direction.

Its all of the other "trappings" that really hurt it.  The musical score, sound, script, voice acting, interface screens (complete with dripping blood) are all considerably worse than the first one.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2004, 06:17:11 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
I thought you were being unusually silent on the game Andrew smile


 biggrin

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
What' sad about the game is that a lot of the core design is pretty good and the concept itself fits in very well with the first game and is a natural segue into taking the game in a darker direction.

Its all of the other "trappings" that really hurt it.  The musical score, sound, script, voice acting, interface screens (complete with dripping blood) are all considerably worse than the first one.


Agree 100%. WW's trappings would be bad in any game, but it just seems criminal as a sequel to Sands of Time.  Jordan Mechner probably could have come up with a great story given the basic premise of Warrior Within. I hope he comes back if Ubi green lights another game in the series.
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ElijahPrice
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« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2004, 12:44:32 AM »

Warrior Within had a great premise.  I haven't gotten far enough to really rate how the story is unfolding but thus far its kinda weak.  I ma expecting to be let down though I am finding ways to enjoy it.

I am rather suprised about the graphics like you all said.  They do seem rather underdeveloped and I have defintley run in to some hang-ups recently that are rather annoying.

EDIT: Alright, game is a lot more fun after the first boss.  Actually the first boss is quite entertaining, killing enemies with the new blade is faster and more fun, and the rooms get a lot cooler.  Much better.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2004, 06:21:54 PM »

I put in another hour or two last night and damn is this game schizophrenic.  I'll got through some very cool platforming sections and find myself thinking "maybe I was too hard on the game" then all of a sudden I'm fighting women who scream in mock ecstacy "Hurt Me Prince!" and I just want to shut the game off.  

Combat is still a mixed bag.  There are ton of options and I'm getting better at it but it still largely devolves into button mashing.

I'm also finding sections more difficult then the first game, probably due to the combat being integrated with the platforming.  There have been several times I've been desperate to find a water fountain so I could heal and save.  The first game was certainly formulaic in its setup of platform, combat, water, rinse, repeat but it made for a nice certainty and sense of progress.  With WW I have no idea if I'm nearing a save point or not.

I also find it difficult to read the interface to determine how much sand I have left on my meter.  Also, do you still have to perform finishing moves to take sand from enemies?  I'm unclear on how that works here.

Lastly, I'm dying frequently enough I wish the game would immediately prompt me for a restart instead of watching a stupid menu animation, see Game Over, and *then* get promted to reload.
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« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2004, 09:06:40 PM »

You get sand from enemies simply by killing them and being near their remains when they turn into a cloud of sand that hovers over their body.
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ElijahPrice
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« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2004, 03:10:56 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Lastly, I'm dying frequently enough I wish the game would immediately prompt me for a restart instead of watching a stupid menu animation, see Game Over, and *then* get promted to reload.


Hahha... you took the words right out of my mouth. :lol:

I am going to start another thread for advice on getting throughdifficult parts of the game because I am stuck at one platforming spot.  If someone could help.. :oops:
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2004, 04:03:15 PM »

Now I’m going to have to eat my words about this game completely. I’m really starting to enjoy it. I got to the Clock tower last night and I think that section equaled or surpassed much of the platform portions of the first game. I am completely hooked.

This isn’t to say that the annoying portions of the game have disappeared, but they have been minimized somewhat. I’ve heard a couple of different music tracks now and they’re not very good but they’re much easier on the ear than some of the earlier ones. And it’s been a few hours now since I’ve had to fight a half-naked chick who wants me to hurt her.

The only thing that really gets my goat now is how glitchy the game is. It must have locked up on me at least three times last night, once when I had just made it to the top of the clock tower and had to restart. Which really sucked because I had to start at the bottom, instead of the last restart point.

My advice to anyone who is on the fence about this game is to play up through the clock tower at least. You may start to find a pretty good game.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2004, 07:17:31 PM »

From the January 2005 EGM Rumor Mill:

Quote
A triple-crown prince
Ubisoft's ressurection of the Prince of Persia franchise has landed the company not one, but two stellar hits the last two years (check out our review of Warrior Within on page 126). And if what I'm hearing is correct (which it usually is), Ubisoft will attempt to go three for three. Look for the Prince running along the walls of your console next holiday, featuring a similar gritty backdrop as the last one, but with a greater emphasis on puzzle solving.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2004, 07:38:34 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
From the January 2005 EGM Rumor Mill:

Quote
A triple-crown prince
Ubisoft's ressurection of the Prince of Persia franchise has landed the company not one, but two stellar hits the last two years (check out our review of Warrior Within on page 126). And if what I'm hearing is correct (which it usually is), Ubisoft will attempt to go three for three. Look for the Prince running along the walls of your console next holiday, featuring a similar gritty backdrop as the last one, but with a greater emphasis on puzzle solving.


Um... whee?
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2004, 08:17:33 PM »

Man, Ubi should take a lesson from EIDOS and the Tomb Raider syndrome. Between Prince of Persia and the endless Tom Clany games, they're going to run their best franchises into the ground.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2004, 10:18:08 PM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
Man, Ubi should take a lesson from EIDOS and the Tomb Raider syndrome. Between Prince of Persia and the endless Tom Clany games, they're going to run their best franchises into the ground.


Its definitely a fine line.  Splinter Cell: PT sold less than half the number of copies the original sold despite generally favorable reaction.  Chaos Theory may suffer the same fate, though it looks like a bigger step forward.  Ubi seems to favor alternating developers- both Chaos Theory and PoP 3 are supposed to be from the teams that worked on the original games in the series.

I don't mind the technique if its done like Sony has with Naughty Dog and Insomniac- put out three quality games and then move on to a new franchise before the developer gets burnt out (assuming we see no more R&C and J&D games).
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2004, 03:08:59 PM »

Just to get the bad taste out of my mouth from some games lately, I played through PoP: Sands of Time over the last three days and man what a terrific game. I forgot just how immersive and wonderous that game could be, but then I've always had a deep-seated love for all things Arabian. It pains me to hear about the badness of the new game, but I'll still try it out and go through it. Eventually. smile
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« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2004, 03:13:28 PM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"
Man, Ubi should take a lesson from EIDOS and the Tomb Raider syndrome. Between Prince of Persia and the endless Tom Clany games, they're going to run their best franchises into the ground.



I think they are taking the lessons seriously - I just don't think it is the lesson you want.

They see that sequels, even if not as good, sell more copies than original games.   Look at the sales for Prince of Persia: Warrior Within vs. Beyond Good and Evil.  

It doesn't take a marketing genius to see that it would be much more profitable to make another PoP game.  So they will.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2004, 03:24:27 PM »

I'll agree with you Farley, but if the early word on the net about PoP 3 being more like the second game than the first, then I'm tempted to start up an online petition to try and get Ubi to realize the first game's brilliance. I can appreciate a darker story about eluding Fate, but from the sound of it (having not played it) the omnipresent brooding, the dominatrix villainesses, the bloody combat being the focus of the game, are all things the original DID NOT FOCUS ON. As such, I can play through the first one again and again, and each time I do I get a cinematic, romantic, and elegant story with some dazzlingly crafty puzzles and a glorious throw-back to the legends of 1001 Arabian Nights.

I've yet to hear anyone refer to the sequel with similar praise.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2004, 04:23:00 PM »

Actually, whiteboyskim, if you read through the impressions you will see that WW contains some very crafty puzzles and outstanding platforming sections.  While the rest may be true the focus is most definitely not on combat.
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« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2004, 04:59:18 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Actually, whiteboyskim, if you read through the impressions you will see that WW contains some very crafty puzzles and outstanding platforming sections.  While the rest may be true the focus is most definitely not on combat.


As I said, I have not played the game though I am anxious too. From several of the impressions along with complaints at PA and other places, it seems most people are put off by the combat and the dominatrix things. Now, that may be a small part of a much larger game, but I don't know for sure. It also seems that once people really get further into it that they found some great platforming buried in there.

I'm really wanting to play this game. smile
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« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2004, 07:16:30 PM »

Another relatively minor complaint I have is the somehwat glitchy continue system. I've had the game freeze on the reolad screen a couple of times already and I think the save points are a little too infrequent. This is alleviated somewhat by having restart points, but those can be problematic. One time I died and restarted, and the game placed me at the continue point, but before the boss battle instead of afterwards. Another time it restarted me in the middle of a boss battle, but with my health much lower than it should have been.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2004, 07:39:30 PM »

I had the game freeze last night during the first loading screen.  

I also wish save points weren't so far apart.  More importantly I'd like a bit more consistentcy when they show up.  In the first game it was almost always big platforming segment followed by combat followed by save.  In WW I've got through some big platforming segments only to find every more platforming and traps with no idea if a save point is close or not.
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« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2004, 09:44:22 PM »

All of these little nitpicks make the game sound like it's more trouble than it's worth.

Rental!
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2004, 04:02:54 PM »

I started playing on hard but decided to restart the game on Normal last night. I kept getting my butt kicked in the Clock tower (present). I originally started playing on hard because I figured that the game would be easier given the overall mass-market pandering with the cut scenes and music.

Boy was I wrong. Hard kicked my ass. It wasn't any one thing in particular. I just hit a section of the game where there was enough combat to bleed my health meter dry before I hit another save point. The individuals battles were OK; it's just there were so many in a row that there is no way I could get through it.
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« Reply #63 on: December 12, 2004, 01:59:45 AM »

Ya youre def right about rental.  I actually rented it and even still Im not thrilled.  The combat system is butchered.  They hyped it so much as this "new customizable thing" and I loved the combat in the first game.  It was so fluid, so responsive - it was like a baby DOA of action games.  I could point my thumbstick whack a guy, point again hit someone else, point again and do a backflip to finish the guy on the ground.  WW is a chore - non responsive, random and the targettin is horrible.  I point at this guy, I hit that guy, I finally autotarget the one lil girl in red, only to land one blow and mysteriously switch to the drone, to promptly have my back jumped on.  In the first game I could flip, stab slash and rebound off the environment at will - here it feels like a combination of luck and randomness when I finally land what I want - real bad.  That and (KINDA SPOILER......) you hop back and forth in time - which is just a really really lame excuse for you to replay certain sections about 3 or 4 times - come on guys the levels in the first game were awesome!  Goin from vast throne chambers to enclosed courtyards to ice caverns - now we get the same area 3 times over but you stick some vines into it cause its "present"?  Weak.  The platform sections are still cool, with the neat jumps, wall runs and crazy swingin all over again - but again the controls seem much more sluggish which is NOT what you want from a game where timing and precision are key at parts.  I dont understand how they made a worse game outta this, but they did and in the worst way - with laziness and a DOWNGRADE in controls - how do you purposely go back and make something of lesser quality than what you already had and not notice it?  I probably would have enjoyed the game a lot more if it had the same fluid combat and exploration controls as the first, with a new "darker" story.  As it is though if you want to play this game, just put PoP back in your disk tray cause youll enjoy it a lot more the second time round than you will this the first.
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Andrew Mallon
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« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2004, 03:44:44 PM »

A word of advice for anyone starting out: do the water garden before the clock tower. It's much easier to do first. I was getting extremely frustrated while in the clock tower, as the difficulty was just insane. Once I finished that and went to the other tower, I breezed through it.  Trust me, doing it in this order order will save a lot of frustration.
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Doopri
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« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2004, 05:51:59 AM »

Difficult is okay (I LOVE Ninja Gaiden and Panzer Dragoon).  Shoddy and randomly implemented autotargetin is unforgivable - especially when it was beautiful in the first game!  So fluid, so effortless - so... tossed out the window for somethin not nearly as fun!
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« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2004, 04:37:23 PM »

Finally finished it last night and ultimately ended up with some pretty mixed feelings about it. My original fear with the game was that the gameplay would be dumbed down like the story and music. Fortunately, this was not the case. The platforming elements are as strong as ever, with some very devilish puzzles, especially in the end game. I was also pleasantly surprised to find that combat was a lot more fun than in the last game. The combat doesn't come anywhere close to Ninja Gaiden but it does feel like an upgrade over the first. It was nice to have more options than just mashing the wall jump button.

Unfortunately, the fun of platforming is more than offset by the amount of backtracking in the second half of the game. There was one platforming area that I had to travel through at least five times throughout the course of the game. Couple this with the lack of variety in enemies, and the game really started to feel like a chore toward the end. All the endless backtracking also killed the little momentum that the story in the game built up.

Now, this isn't any surprise, but the story is terrible. I'm sure everyone knew that after seeing all the T&A in the first segment, but not only is it bad, it just makes no sense whatsoever. Every story element in the second half of the  game felt perfunctory, as if the developers just didn't care about a story and didn't think it was important. Now that's par for the course for most action games, but coming as a sequel to Sands of Time it feels like a kick in the gut.

Bottom line for this game is that fans of platformers will find a lot of fun and challenging gameplay if they are able to overlook some of the game's problems. However, the eights and nines that this game is getting are very generous. I enjoyed the game but it's flaws drag down some superior gameplay and turn it into an overly-long game that wears out its welcome a number of hours before it is over. If I was rating it, I'd give it a C.
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« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2004, 12:48:54 AM »

Wow I guess my hatred of the combat bein more sluggish and less fun than the first was more of a personal tirade.  But ya I pretty much agree with the other stuff youre sayin - though again I also felt the platformin stuff was equally as fun as the first game but with less responsive controls.  Youre right though - def NOT an 8, let alone a 9.  (and yeah seriously - didnt you feel completely cheated by the laziness of the developers - "Hey, I got an idea - why dont we call replayin the same section 800 times "time travel" hehehe theyll buy it and we only have to make 65% of a game to call it 100% done!")
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« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2004, 09:51:32 PM »

Quote
Wow I guess my hatred of the combat bein more sluggish and less fun than the first was more of a personal tirade.


I'm not sure I wouldn't agree with you about your complaint. The combat in the first game certainly was fluid and elegant and I think some of that was lost in the sequel. The combat engine did swap some of its precision and simplicity for the addition of combos and fighting styles. I think it was good tradeoff, given how people complained that the fighting in the first game was repetitive and given how the second game is much longer than the first.  They sacrificed some of the better parts of the first game's combat engine for more variety.
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« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2004, 09:57:00 PM »

Woo, all this hype and a big tank.

Sounds like Devil May Cry 2!   :twisted:
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« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2004, 10:11:21 PM »

Quote from: "pr0ner"
Woo, all this hype and a big tank.

Sounds like Devil May Cry 2!   :twisted:


While Warrior Within isn't near as good as the first one I've still found it quite a bit better than DMC 2.
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« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2004, 11:29:22 PM »

I agree with Kevin. It's a decent game in it's own right; it suffers in comparison to the Sands of Time, the best game released for  this generation of consoles.

By the way, Ubisoft announced that first week sales for Warrior Within doubled the opening week for Sands of Time. I wonder if that has to do with the grittier tone of the game or the fact that the franchise has a much higher profile now than one the first game was released. I shudder thinking about a marketing exec at Ubisoft patting himself on the back for "improving" the franchise by adding a bunch of T&A.

It'll be interesting to see how many units it moves in the long run.
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« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2004, 11:43:48 PM »

Quote from: "Andrew Mallon"


By the way, Ubisoft announced that first week sales for Warrior Within doubled the opening week for Sands of Time. I wonder if that has to do with the grittier tone of the game or the fact that the franchise has a much higher profile now than one the first game was released. I shudder thinking about a marketing exec at Ubisoft patting himself on the back for "improving" the franchise by adding a bunch of T&A.

 


I'm not sure that doubling sales is as much of a positive indicator as Ubi wants people to think.  Sands of Time got off to a very slow start last November.  So much so that its still a popular misconception that the game didn't sell well.  SoT, however, exploded in the month of December and selling well for several months after that, so much so that I think the game has moved more than a million copies across all platforms.  In November of last year, SoT sold ~100k while it almost quadrupled that in December.  Clearly positve word of mouth and end of year awards had a strong effect.  Given that, I would expect Warrior Within's sales to be more in line with last December vice the much slower November.  

Plus, word of mouth just isn't going to be as strong this time out so I expect fewer sustained sales.  I would expect that Warrior Within will ultimately sell less than the first game.  Still profitable for Ubi given the reuse of the engine and short dev time but it may be enough for them to reconside the series' direction.
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« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2005, 11:26:54 AM »

Finished it this week.

I first read this thread before starting the game, and I got in an equally bad mood as all the posters here, since I also had enjoyed SoT so much. Yes, it was too dark, and the prince was just another-hero-gone-rough.

However, after the first real boss fight, the game did get better. This is where for me the combat clicked, and it's a really fun system. Once you get the hang of it, you can do really cool stuff and start playing with your potential victims as a cat with mice.

And so, around the part with the 2 towers, I was hooked. I couldn't put the game down anymore, I found it almost as addictive as the first game. It's not as subtle, or beautiful, but the story is as good as the first one, and the gameplay mechanics have been improved.

There's also a part in the game where the prince breaks down and has given up, which I found really good. It did make him more human. He does have decent character development, but not enough in the beginning. They should have made another intro, which would show the witty prince of SoT we all love, slowly transforming into the Warrior Within he is now. (Besides, the intro there is now doesn't make any sense at all if you think about it).

So, in conclusion, it's a very good game. BUT, it has a very slow start, and the change between the 2 games is too big. After a while, you'll have adapted, but it's tough at first if you liked SoT a lot. It's not as good as SoT, because thinking back, I remember as many scenes from the first game (which I played a year ago), as I do from this game, but in it's own right, it's good. And it DOES have a certain PoP-atmosphere. The second game in the series, The Shadow and the Flame, was a bit like this one.
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