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Author Topic: A watershed moment for PC Gamers  (Read 10849 times)
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jpinard
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« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2005, 08:55:26 AM »

The specs posted need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Case in point:

3 of the fastest supercomputers on Earth are the following:

* IBM Blue Gene/L - 135.3 teraflops
* Columbia at NASA - 51.9 teraflops
* The Massive Earth Simulator in Japan - 35.9 teraflops

Now if your to bleieve and try and compare specs from the machines what could we deduce?

17 "Sony PS3's" or 36 "X-Box 360's" would be faster than the Earth Simluator in Japan.  For some reaosn, I doubt that 17 $400 PS'3 are faster than the multi-million dollar Earth Simulator.

Specs can be very misleading and the hype machine isn't going to "correct" anyone making bogus cross-platform comparisons that are totally invalid.
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Harpua3
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« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2005, 09:09:31 AM »

I like both consoles and pcs. I`ll agree that the cycle goes over and over again. I remember picking up halo and an xbox on day one and being floored. The graphics were better than anything out at the time, by far. I had a high end pc that got little use for alittle while because of the xbox. Then after time the pc tech gets better and they look better. Don`t we all know this? It isn`t any secret. I`m not sure what some of you guys are defending. :wink:  I need more sleep.
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jpinard
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« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2005, 09:33:58 AM »

Ironically I think things will stay status quo.  Here's my reasons:

* X-Box 360 is most expensive console available.  NO two ways about it, it's really exensive.  To use it's great features you need an HDTV.
Right there, I think you've calved a friggen glacier and watched a mass population say, "I'm stuck with the X-Box 'til I'm really rich, or rob someones elses house".  New X-Box owners with no HDTV are looking at thousand of dollars in cost.  Something no console maker has pushed before.

* Therefore the only pc gamer hit will be those developers who jump ship to go console only.  There's nothing in the X-Box 360 that is not capable of being replicated in a high-end PC.

* Sony... Sony told us before they're archticture in the PS2 could darn near ressurrect Jesus, and that pc people no longer needed games since the PS2 did them so much better.

Personally I think whoever has the most memory and real non-video computational capabilities will reign supreme as the next best console.

But I see MS as fixing lots of mistakes this time around, plus adding in lots of power.  But nothing that buries the pc.
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« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2005, 10:13:04 AM »

Consoles have always been tradionaly faster then pcs on launch day. If you look at the history it becomes pretty obvious that what we see today is the pattern we saw years ago.

In 1993 Sony announced that they were developing a home console called the Play station-x. By the end of 1994 they launch it and astonished people at its ability too do complex "at the time" 3d in real time.

Alternatively the pc had been able to do simple 3d for a while "wolf 3d" by 1995 the pc was doing complex 3d "quake" slightly surpassing the psx. In 1996 3dfx released the voodoo allowing pc's to do high quality 3d in much higher resolutions then the psx could do.

The ps2 was launched in March 2000 which had a fill-rate of 2400 Mpixels/secound. The Xbox was announced at the same time and was shown using NVIDIA technology amazing faster then anything seen before.

At that time the pc had the geforce 256 with a fill-rate of 480 Mpixels/secound. Following month the geforce 2 was launched with a fill-rate of 1000 Mpixels/secound.

The Xbox was launched in the end of 2001. With a faster graphics card then the pc. By Feb 2002 the geforce 4 was announced making the pc again the most powerful gaming system.

So where are we today exactly where we where years ago. The Xbox 360 coming out with 3x3.2 cpu and a gfx card 2x as powerful as the geforce 6800 ultra. So where does this leave the pc.

Well by the end of this year early next year we should be seeing 5000+ amd dual core chips and if NVIDIA continues the new graphics card cycle we should be seeing the Xbox 360's type gfx's cards for pc this year maybe next. Not to mention that there are a few people out there already using 2x6800 ultras.

So I have no doubt that the Xbox 360 is going to get more powerful then computers when it comes out but not for very long.
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2005, 11:02:14 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
I'm sure many of you have been following the Microsoft and Sony next generation console announcements, and without making this a "PC GAMING IS DEAD" thread, I have to say that as a long-time PC gamer I think this is a watershed moment.  For the first time, the consoles will not only be way cheaper, they will be ahead of the PC hardware curve.  The specs on these two systems are beyond what we have now and beyond what we as PC gamers will have anytime soon,  especially when you consider the prices these things will ship at.

Anyone disagree?


Yes and as the resident expert on this,  I must comment. There are two facts that you should realize

1. E3 doesn't official start till today Wednesday the 18th. These two past days have been JUST hardware companies making annoucements. They are the queens of the ball and they are going to get the most attention and get it first.

2. PC Gaming is gearing up for a spirital relaunch next year. Not only are we going to see a new operating system with its new gaming layer, we are going to have pcs with dual cores, real new generation videocards, physics cards and probably 2 gigs of ram. As one developer I talked with said, "The PC of fall 2006 is basically a whole new platform and we are treating it as such. " So the pc is dead this year. You will probably not see much in the way of annoucements this year for pc gaming. If you do it will be for stuff way in the future.

From an optimistic point of view, this is a time to catch on your backlog and maybe pick up some older games you missed. Next year, get ready for the rebirth.

Ofcourse from the pessimistic point of views, sales are in a double digit decline for the 6th year, the new hardware may be gimmicy and not very useful,, and even with the new os coming out, I don't see anyone with a plan to get pc games back on store shelves in good locations.
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2005, 11:56:11 AM »

The specs I've read about coupled with my "intuition" tells me that XBox 360 will have hardware on launch day that, at the very least, will be equal in performance to a top-of-the-line PC. Of course I can’t prove it, and it could easily become a very long back-and-forth discussion of our estimates of future hardware for the PC and what not. I just get the feeling that the hardware for Xbox 360 is comparably superior to the original Xbox back in the day. Actually, I get the impression that it’s a lot more powerful, compared to how powerful Xbox 1 was at launch in relation to PC hardware at the time.

Now, that's just hardware, and in the end, it's far from the only factor. The fact that game developers know the EXACT details of the system they're developing for, means that optimizing performance is easier, and extremely so. On a PC, they have to consider an exhausting amount of things. They have to support as large a player base as possible, meaning the game must run on as many combinations of hardware as possible. This means that a lot of things have to be optional, like graphical options and whatever. They have no specific configuration to optimise for, meaning it will be difficulty to gauge how it will actually run on the many different systems out there. On the Xbox, they can be completely sure, as they will probably have one running the game right next to them.

Being a casual coder, I know something about the difference between an optimized application and one that is not. Believe me, the difference can often be huge, even through minor adjustments to the code.

Furthermore, the hardware for the Xbox is dedicated, meaning it was created specifically to function optimally for the system. That means that the bottlenecks which traditionally hamper PC performance will be a minimal problem here as well.

That’s why I believe that great Xbox 360 titles will be superior, technically, to great PC titles. This superiority will last for a long time, probably not less than a year. Of course, game design is something different entirely, and should be a topic reserved for another time.
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Gedd
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« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2005, 03:28:40 PM »

Someone really needs to come up with a generic timeline where we can just drop in the name of the new consoles and predict the comments and responses that'll occur at a certain stage, because we're in some huge circle that's based largely on the console systems' lifespans.

Right now we're at that phase where everything has just been announced and people start talking about how the PC can't possibly compete with the horsepower of the new consoles.  Upon release, we'll see that the console games look great, and even the best PCs have a hard time keeping up with the consoles.  After a certain amount of time a combination of all the new hardware (GPU, CPU, mobo chipsets) for the PC will bring it back up to par, and then it will surpass consoles again.  For a while folks will say how much better game x looks on the PC versus the consoles.  Then the circle will start anew with announcements for the next generation of consoles.

The fact is that consoles have to be more powerful and better at rendering and such at launch because that's the hardware you're going to be stuck with for ~3 years.  Build a top of the line PC today with the understanding that you can't upgrade it for 3 years and you'll see the same effect.  It'll be all the rage for a year, then it'll will just be ok for a year, and then stuff will start looking dated in the third year (if it takes even that long).
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skystride
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« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2005, 06:00:10 PM »

Who cares if the PC or Consoles is more powerful?  My NES could pump out much better and faster graphics than the PC I had at the time but there were still amazing games available for the PC.
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« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2005, 08:55:08 PM »

Quote from: "Turtle"

The xbox is an exception because it was released quite a bit later than the other two this last generation.

The Xbox and the Gamecube were released within a month or two of each other.

All I'll add is that Gedd is right on the money.  Every time a new generation of consoles is released, all the PC fans start doing their best Chicken Little routine, yet the PC game industry keeps on keeping on.  While we are getting closer and closer to some sort of "convergence", PC gaming isn't going anywhere.
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« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2005, 06:32:32 AM »

We will start seeing video cards carrying these chips a while after the consoles are released.

At any rate, I enjoy both PC and console style games.  But for extended gaming, I pretty much stick with PC.  

They keep talking about convergence, but I have yet to see it even come close to happening.  IMO we arent even seeing babysteps.
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Sarkus
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« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2005, 06:43:08 AM »

I'd argue that the "cycle" theory is already being disproven by recent events.  After all, according to that theory we should be in a PC gaming boom time because right now the PC is way ahead of current consoles.  You can try to spin things as you'd like, but that isn't happening.  And now we're about to see new consoles.
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« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2005, 06:54:57 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
I'd argue that the "cycle" theory is already being disproven by recent events.  After all, according to that theory we should be in a PC gaming boom time because right now the PC is way ahead of current consoles.  You can try to spin things as you'd like, but that isn't happening.  And now we're about to see new consoles.
This discussion isn't about sales, though.  Console releases are generally going to wtfpwn PC releases, that's the nature of the beast.  PCs are a bitch to keep in working order and up to date.  Consoles are plug and play.  Which do you think appeals more to the unwashed masses?

Consoles have 'street cred.'  Halo.  GTA.  You can be a cool kid and still play those.  PCs don't.  Chances are if you're playing anything modern on your PC, you're already a computer geek.

Just because PCs are leaps and bounds beyond current consoles now doesn't mean that the PC gaming industry will rise correlatively.  It doesn't work like that.
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Sarkus
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« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2005, 07:21:00 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
This discussion isn't about sales, though.  Console releases are generally going to wtfpwn PC releases, that's the nature of the beast.  PCs are a bitch to keep in working order and up to date.  Consoles are plug and play.  Which do you think appeals more to the unwashed masses?

Consoles have 'street cred.'  Halo.  GTA.  You can be a cool kid and still play those.  PCs don't.  Chances are if you're playing anything modern on your PC, you're already a computer geek.

Just because PCs are leaps and bounds beyond current consoles now doesn't mean that the PC gaming industry will rise correlatively.  It doesn't work like that.


If it's not about sales, then what is it about?  We're talking about PC Gaming here.  The hardware "cycle" hardly matters if at the end of a few of them no one is making PC games any more.  PC Gaming is already below 20% of the gaming market.  What happens when it's 10%?  We're rapidly approaching PC vs Mac territory here and we all know what a great game machine the Mac is.   :roll:
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« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2005, 07:34:08 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
This discussion isn't about sales, though.  Console releases are generally going to wtfpwn PC releases, that's the nature of the beast.  PCs are a bitch to keep in working order and up to date.  Consoles are plug and play.  Which do you think appeals more to the unwashed masses?

Consoles have 'street cred.'  Halo.  GTA.  You can be a cool kid and still play those.  PCs don't.  Chances are if you're playing anything modern on your PC, you're already a computer geek.

Just because PCs are leaps and bounds beyond current consoles now doesn't mean that the PC gaming industry will rise correlatively.  It doesn't work like that.


If it's not about sales, then what is it about?  We're talking about PC Gaming here.  The hardware "cycle" hardly matters if at the end of a few of them no one is making PC games any more.  PC Gaming is already below 20% of the gaming market.  What happens when it's 10%?  We're rapidly approaching PC vs Mac territory here and we all know what a great game machine the Mac is.   :roll:


All I'm saying is that computational power and sales power are not correlated.  Just because the consoles are going to be more powerful than the PCs for a little while won't mean PC game sales are going to crash or anything.  They'll probably stay pretty even with what they are now.

In short, the cleft between PC game sales and Console game sales is not due to hardware.  It's due to other influences.
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jpinard
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« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2005, 09:32:47 AM »

Quote from: "Sarkus"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
This discussion isn't about sales, though.  Console releases are generally going to wtfpwn PC releases, that's the nature of the beast.  PCs are a bitch to keep in working order and up to date.  Consoles are plug and play.  Which do you think appeals more to the unwashed masses?

Consoles have 'street cred.'  Halo.  GTA.  You can be a cool kid and still play those.  PCs don't.  Chances are if you're playing anything modern on your PC, you're already a computer geek.

Just because PCs are leaps and bounds beyond current consoles now doesn't mean that the PC gaming industry will rise correlatively.  It doesn't work like that.


If it's not about sales, then what is it about?  We're talking about PC Gaming here.  The hardware "cycle" hardly matters if at the end of a few of them no one is making PC games any more.  PC Gaming is already below 20% of the gaming market.  What happens when it's 10%?  We're rapidly approaching PC vs Mac territory here and we all know what a great game machine the Mac is.   :roll:


How many times do people have to point uot how very bogus those stats are for the PC?!?!!?  When you double the sales for pc to compensate for massive amount of online distribution, and companies that will only distribute via download, and companies that offer both options (retail and download), etc etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!!  pc figured are bogus.
I woudl daresay double that figure and you see pc's are doing excellent.  I bought almost all my games via online download this year.  And I also bought games that are not included in that pathetic retail list.
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2005, 11:05:38 AM »

Quote from: "jpinard"
How many times do people have to point uot how very bogus those stats are for the PC?!?!!?  When you double the sales for pc to compensate for massive amount of online distribution, and companies that will only distribute via download, and companies that offer both options (retail and download), etc etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!!  pc figured are bogus.
I woudl daresay double that figure and you see pc's are doing excellent.  I bought almost all my games via online download this year.  And I also bought games that are not included in that pathetic retail list.


Unfortantely, I don't have a link or a source to point. I've been told by a person from a fairly large publishers that online sales of pc games only match up about 5% of NPD numbers.  About $54 million. So lets be generious and say its $100 million. That doesn't make up for over a billion that has been lost. Another thing to remember. Whatever online sales the PC has gained, Consoles had significant gains too.

The big question I have is how the pc is doing in other markets. I only have second hand hersay. In Western Europe the last 3 years has scene major declines as well. Eastern Europe numbers have stayed steady. It does apear to still be growing in Asian and Africa.  Once again, consoles are growing in those arenas as well as the areas the pc is shrinking.
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Gedd
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« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2005, 11:42:22 AM »

Quote
If it's not about sales, then what is it about?


My cycle post was in response to your original post...

Quote from: "Sarkus"
For the first time, the consoles will not only be way cheaper, they will be ahead of the PC hardware curve.  The specs on these two systems are beyond what we have now and beyond what we as PC gamers will have anytime soon,  especially when you consider the prices these things will ship at.


You're not talking about sales, you're talking about the power of the hardware.  I'm saying that we go through this with every new console launch...we did it with the PS2/XBox, it's happening with the PS3/XBox360, and it'll happen again with the PS4/XBox720.

As for your statement about price, if you're dealing with PCs vs. Consoles on strictly a gaming basis, then it's tough to justify a PC (although you have to ask yourself how much that HDTV is going to cost if you want the visual quality shown in these trailers).  However, the PC has utility beyond just gaming that's not replicated in the consoles (yet slywink).  PC hardware prices have also gotten much chepaer over the years, so the value is getting better.

[edit]

Forgot to respond to something Laner said...

Quote
Every time a new generation of consoles is released, all the PC fans start doing their best Chicken Little routine, yet the PC game industry keeps on keeping on.


I'd argue that it's not as much the PC fans going Chicken Little as it is the Console fans pointing at their new hardware and specs and telling PC gamers they're doomed.
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« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2005, 11:50:43 AM »

Quote from: "Gedd"
PC hardware prices have also gotten much chepaer over the years, so the value is getting better.


I remember when a really good pc cost $5,000. It was that way for years. Ofcourse back then, games were targeted for that platorm.

I remember reading a letters column in CGW where a person asked if flight sims would be able to use a 368dx 33. They reply was since that was a  chip that only existed in $6000 workstations, game companies would never develop to take advantage of that much power
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« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2005, 01:14:33 PM »

Here is what will need to happen for me to give up PC for a console (note, this is a PC mainly used for gaming)...

Deliver the eye candy.
This is where the console is closing the gap rapidly imho. There still seems to be something lost in the translation from TV-oriented to monitor-oriented graphics though. Like big, obtrusive UIs and menus or the opposite, tiny ones like KOTOR1. I will be gaming at a desk, with my monitor, not on the TV (the wife owns that slywink).

Keyboard + mouse functionality.
It needs to be equivalent to how it is on a PC today in terms of being able to map keys and stuff like that as well as the ability to buy 3rd-party products that I find the most comfortable (mouse-type). This is also another area where the translation from console to PC its not very smooth (imho).

Must have types of games that I like to play like to play.
MMOL, RPG, FPS, RTS are what I normally like to play, usually in the order I listed them in terms of purchases/playtime. This seems to be one area that consoles need to make up a lot of ground for me.

Surf the web.
Besides gaming, this is the next most important function of my PC. I want the same functionality I have today in terms of surfing the web, visiting message boards, downloading porn, etc.

Until those things happen, I will still maintain a gaming PC.
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« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2005, 01:49:29 PM »

Hopefully with all these USB ports we'll get the option to finally use a mouse or keyboard.  I would love it if the PS3 came with some kind of simple webbrowser interface.  I love the fact that I don't have to upgrade and I love the fact that as the years go on console games keep getting better and better looking even though you're still using the exact same hardware.  That NEVER happens with the PC.  If you want your games to get better looking with the PC then you have to upgrade.
Honestly if I could just use my console to browse the web then my last computer would be my last computer.
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Gedd
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« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2005, 02:06:45 PM »

Quote from: "Rob_Merritt"
I remember when a really good pc cost $5,000. It was that way for years.


Heh, yeah...I remember the first PC I bought was $3,000 (Gateway P-90). The last PC I built for myself 2 years ago was something like $850, quite a difference.
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Toe
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« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2005, 04:05:12 PM »

Quote from: "Canuck"
I love the fact that I don't have to upgrade and I love the fact that as the years go on console games keep getting better and better looking even though you're still using the exact same hardware.  That NEVER happens with the PC.  If you want your games to get better looking with the PC then you have to upgrade.


Yeah, but isn't that really just a result of initial games for consoles being built a bit hastely, therefore not taking full advantage of the hardware? I mean some good-looking games come out initially for consoles that hold up and, later in a console's life cycle there are some pretty ugly games that come out as well.
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« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2005, 05:46:16 PM »

Quote from: "Toe"
Quote from: "Canuck"
I love the fact that I don't have to upgrade and I love the fact that as the years go on console games keep getting better and better looking even though you're still using the exact same hardware.  That NEVER happens with the PC.  If you want your games to get better looking with the PC then you have to upgrade.


Yeah, but isn't that really just a result of initial games for consoles being built a bit hastely, therefore not taking full advantage of the hardware? I mean some good-looking games come out initially for consoles that hold up and, later in a console's life cycle there are some pretty ugly games that come out as well.


Not so much hasty as developer experience.  As devs get more exerience coding on a platform who's specs never change they learn how to code more efficiently, strengths and weaknesses of the consoles, etc.


For example, I would put Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory on the PC as the second best graphics I've seen behind Half Life 2 (ahead of both Riddick and Doom 3).  The amazing thing is that the Xbox version is almost identical looking and only lacks in resolution compared to the PC.  

Just in the last year we've had Doom 3, Chaos Theory, and Riddick all on Xbox and all comparing favorably to their PC counterparts which are among the best graphically the PC has to offer.  This summer Xbox gets Half Life 2 and based on the videos its an excellent port too.  That has NEVER happened in a console life span before.  The PC games of 2000 and 2001 absolutely trounced the best looking PS1 and N64 games.
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« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2005, 06:25:32 PM »

Doom3 Xbox superior to PC?

http://doom3.filefront.com/screenshots/News/18403/1

So...where do you buy your crack at?
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« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2005, 06:32:30 PM »

Wait a sec- I didn't say superior.  Of course it isn't.  By "compare favorably" I meant that they weren't nearly as gimped as one might expect.  You can play Doom 3 on the Xbox and get a pretty similar to experience to playing it on the PC.  Its not a night and day difference.
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« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2005, 07:44:32 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Wait a sec- I didn't say superior.  Of course it isn't.  By "compare favorably" I meant that they weren't nearly as gimped as one might expect.  You can play Doom 3 on the Xbox and get a pretty similar to experience to playing it on the PC.  Its not a night and day difference.

Actually with Doom 3 it's pretty much a night experience no matter what platform you play it on.
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« Reply #66 on: May 19, 2005, 08:15:15 PM »

Different game types excel on different platforms.  For example:

Big time strategy games (turn based or RTS) like heroes of might and magic, master of orion, x-com, wargames, starcraft, civilization etc. fit great for the armchair general and his/her PC.

Story, menu driven and relatively light RPGs like final fantasy go great on Consoles.

In depth RPGs like any of the gold box games, wizardry, might and magic, planescape, temple of elemental evil fit well on the PC.  (especially anything that can be MODDED)

Sports games like ESPN FOOTBALL, SSX, Tony Hawk, Basketball, Winning Eleven, Golf are generally better for the console market.

Simulations like Freespace, X2, B-17, Elite, Silent Hunter, Privateer, X-wing vs Tie Fighter fit much better in the PC realm.

Fighting games like Killer Instinct, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Samurai Showdown and Tekken fit better on the Consoles.

Right now, highly competitive FPS is better on the PCs because of the quick controls most FPSers are used to (also with hi competeition mice like the Razer Diamondback)
(I still cant understand how people can like using a Control Pad in FPSes!)

The list goes on.  Of course as Consoles become more capable of using PC type input devices like mice and keyboards and become more internet capable then some of this becomes less relevant and consoles will work better.

We will eventually end up with game dedicated machines that are both console-like and PC-like.  It'll be a PConsole. smile
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2005, 02:50:48 AM »

Unfortunately Jack much of the areas you listed that the PC is strong in are in massive decline.  In particular, every RPG franchise you listed is dead.
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« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2005, 07:16:49 AM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Unfortunately Jack much of the areas you listed that the PC is strong in are in massive decline.  In particular, every RPG franchise you listed is dead.


Kevin, you "know" he's listing old franchises.  I beg to differ that RPG's are in decline on the pc.  In fact, there is more money being poured into RPG's on the pc now - than EVER in history.  Same with RTS's.  For a doomed platform, why is so much money going into it?

Have any idea just how big Neverwinter Nights 2 is going to be?  BIG!!!  Oblivion, Baldur's Gate 3, Might & Magic 5, all the MMORGS...  Despite having a monthly fee you have to acknowledge that's where many of the RPG pc gamers have gone.  just because it's MMORG doen'st disqualify it from being an RPG.
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« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2005, 11:19:57 AM »

Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Wait a sec- I didn't say superior.  Of course it isn't.  By "compare favorably" I meant that they weren't nearly as gimped as one might expect.  You can play Doom 3 on the Xbox and get a pretty similar to experience to playing it on the PC.  Its not a night and day difference.

Actually with Doom 3 it's pretty much a night experience no matter what platform you play it on.


Ha! Nice one.  :lol:  

Quote
Sports games like ESPN FOOTBALL, SSX, Tony Hawk, Basketball, Winning Eleven, Golf are generally better for the console market


Do you think some of their popularity on consoles is due to the genre more than anything else? Meaning, you watch football on TV, so therefore playing it on TV fits better than playing it on a computer. While I do not own a sports title for my PC, it would seem like if enough time was spent developing it, it could be more fun using keyboard and mouse (kind of RTSish). Wouldn't it be cool if you could actually mouse-click where your quarterback is going to throw the ball? Seems like it would be neat to me ~shrug~. But, I just do not think the "target" audience for football games have PCs, hence thats why sports games tend to be on consoles, not because they play better.
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« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2005, 04:13:03 PM »

Quote from: "Toe"


Quote
Sports games like ESPN FOOTBALL, SSX, Tony Hawk, Basketball, Winning Eleven, Golf are generally better for the console market


Do you think some of their popularity on consoles is due to the genre more than anything else? Meaning, you watch football on TV, so therefore playing it on TV fits better than playing it on a computer. While I do not own a sports title for my PC, it would seem like if enough time was spent developing it, it could be more fun using keyboard and mouse (kind of RTSish). Wouldn't it be cool if you could actually mouse-click where your quarterback is going to throw the ball? Seems like it would be neat to me ~shrug~. But, I just do not think the "target" audience for football games have PCs, hence thats why sports games tend to be on consoles, not because they play better.


Hmmm..  I am a big PC guy.  I like consoles too.  But I can tell you because of the way these sports games are made (maybe if they changed how the games was playted) reaction times and control layout is highly important.  So if someone was going to play them on a PC they would probably have a gamepad.  So why not just have it on the console.  Plus Sports games are great side-by-side multiplayer games.  PCs can do LAN or internet well.  but consoles do four guys on the couch well. smile
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« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2005, 04:18:15 PM »

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Unfortunately Jack much of the areas you listed that the PC is strong in are in massive decline.  In particular, every RPG franchise you listed is dead.


If this is the case it is Extremely unfortunate.  I can't live without my Fallouts, Master of orions, civilizations, X-coms, star controls and X2s.

Good thing HOMM 5, Fallout 3, Civ 4, X3 and NN2 are coming! slywink

(wow all sequels...  Time for a new breakout franchise!)
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« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2005, 05:43:51 PM »

When discussing next gen console power and price compared to a pc you have to include the cost of a HDTV.  You will never achieve or surpass the graphics quality of a pc on a regular tv.  Alot of the power of these next gen systems will be going to making them purdy in HD format.  So a $300-400 system and a $800+(estimate) t.v would in fact equal and maybe surpass my $800(a year and a half ago) pc.
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« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2005, 06:32:12 PM »

Quote from: "morlac"
When discussing next gen console power and price compared to a pc you have to include the cost of a HDTV.  You will never achieve or surpass the graphics quality of a pc on a regular tv.  Alot of the power of these next gen systems will be going to making them purdy in HD format.  So a $300-400 system and a $800+(estimate) t.v would in fact equal and maybe surpass my $800(a year and a half ago) pc.


Well I was thinking more along the lines of taking a new console, setting up where my computer now sits, and plug in my mouse, keyboard, cable connection, and monitor and start gaming.

When I can do that and it looks and plays comparable, I am sold (if they have games of the genres I like that is).
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« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2005, 03:59:04 AM »

Quote from: "morlac"
When discussing next gen console power and price compared to a pc you have to include the cost of a HDTV.  You will never achieve or surpass the graphics quality of a pc on a regular tv.  Alot of the power of these next gen systems will be going to making them purdy in HD format.  So a $300-400 system and a $800+(estimate) t.v would in fact equal and maybe surpass my $800(a year and a half ago) pc.


You're acting as if nobody is buying HDTV's for other reasons.  Lot's of people are and there's a big push in that direction.  It's kind of like color vs black and white years ago.  After a while it becomes impossible to stick with the old technology.

Besides, HDTV prices are dropping fast - you can get a 27" for around $500 now.
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« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2005, 06:57:05 AM »

Check out my new thread  :lol:  :wink: http://www.consolegold.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6605

The watershed moment is that Epic has said "On a current generation PC -  U2K7 will have better detail than the version released on the X-Box 360".

WHUMP!  OH my, what's that? Wha? The system spces actually were misleading?  hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2005, 07:35:02 AM »

Quote from: "Doomboy"
Sure the next gen consoles will be able to make better looking games, and the hardware will be cheaper than a comparable PC, but the games will still be more about button mashing than thinking.


You're playing the wrong console games if that's all you get from it.
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« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2005, 07:46:00 AM »

Ironically I'd like t play some fighting games on it.  Any I tried before I never liked because the interaction between the two fighters awas so badly cheated.  For example, the guy punched the bigger guy in the gut... his hand/arm go halfway in, and there's no body intereaction besides the faked fly back from ths hit.  Too many of the animations and actions cheated.  Looking at the new Dead or Alive for X-Box 360 (1.2 Gig download) they STILL haven't fixed that!  Argghhh!  All that extra power, and they don't take the time to really nail down clipping, animations and action?!?!

Sure they have neat combo moves and such... but ughh..
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« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2005, 06:32:28 AM »

Quote from: "jpinard"
Check out my new thread  :lol:  :wink: http://www.consolegold.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6605

The watershed moment is that Epic has said "On a current generation PC -  U2K7 will have better detail than the version released on the X-Box 360".

WHUMP!  OH my, what's that? Wha? The system spces actually were misleading?  hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


First of all, your linked thread speaks for itself, mainly in saying that it's not as pro-PC as you make it sound.  As for the better detail, well obviously.  After all, HDTV tops out at 1080 vs 1280 or 1600 or whatever your monitor supports.  

In the short term, the Xbox 360 will outperform any reasonably priced PC this fall and will probably have games that use it's power more completely whereas the PC probably won't.    By the time we get to PS3 in fall '06 that may very well have changed.
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« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2005, 03:45:53 PM »

Quote from: "Canuck"
Hopefully with all these USB ports we'll get the option to finally use a mouse or keyboard.  I would love it if the PS3 came with some kind of simple webbrowser interface.  I love the fact that I don't have to upgrade and I love the fact that as the years go on console games keep getting better and better looking even though you're still using the exact same hardware.  That NEVER happens with the PC.  If you want your games to get better looking with the PC then you have to upgrade.
Honestly if I could just use my console to browse the web then my last computer would be my last computer.


Wait, isn't going from an xbox to xbox360 considered "upgrading" ?
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