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Question: It's now 30 days until the next generation begins.   I've noticed a lot of shifting of opinions in the last 30 days back and forth.   Which console are you buying in November?
PS4 - 42 (32.3%)
Xbone - 15 (11.5%)
Both - 13 (10%)
Neither - 19 (14.6%)
Waiting until later - 41 (31.5%)
Total Voters: 130

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Author Topic: 2890 Days until launch. Which system are you getting?  (Read 40972 times)
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Canuck
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« Reply #2360 on: December 03, 2013, 10:58:46 PM »

Well it's a bit early to say anything right away as Microsoft isn't obligated to respond every time Sony reports something. We'll have to wait until the NPDs come out. I think the xbone will have respectable numbers if not as good as Sony.
Sony will get a huge initial boost in Japan because all of the console gamers will buy one right away but then I forsee a huge drop-off by the second week. It's always that way in Japan. The people who buy games are very passionate and do so right away and everyone else doesn't bother. There's rarely a long tail for any product in Japan. I would think they would see a 400-500k boost in the first week even with the sad state of the console market over here.
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Turtle
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« Reply #2361 on: December 03, 2013, 11:16:06 PM »

Numbers will probably be similar to the start of last gen. Remember back then when the numbers from Sony were half that of MS, and everyone, even here, were harping on that? Back then Sony had the excuse of shipping a year late, and they still turned out okay in the end.

This is why even if I may seem like I'm overly bagging on MS, the reality is, it's because I know MS will be okay in the end so long as they focus on what got them gamers in the first place, their excellent exclusive lineup in the early years of the 360.

Now, being behind means they will have to continue pumping out those exclusives over the long run to compete with the Sony studios.
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« Reply #2362 on: December 04, 2013, 05:52:31 AM »

The sales numbers right now have already far outstripped the previous generation's first few months, which is why I really don't get why anybody would bag on either set of sales numbers now.  They're both doing incredibly well and that is great news for the industry and for gamers on both systems.
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« Reply #2363 on: December 04, 2013, 12:29:02 PM »

I'll repeat what I said before. The sales #'s right now don't mean a lot about how successful the 2 new consoles will be. They just mean they are probably the 2 most well supplied launches ever. Of course they are both going to sell all consoles they can make right now. EVERY major console does well at launch. Even the Wii U sold all the consoles they could make at launch time.

We can't make any conclusions about how well the new systems are doing until we get past the holiday and initial months of the console. How are these consoles going to sell in March next year? That's what I am much more interested in knowing.

Do I think either of these will fail like the Wii U? Of course not. Do I think this will be the BIGGEST GENERATION EVER~! ? I want to wait and see.
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« Reply #2364 on: December 04, 2013, 02:17:46 PM »

NPD doesn't give numbers anymore. We'll only have them if MS or Sony allow it. They will also probably do allot of combining to make the numbers look better like last gen, or use doll or values in sales to spin it. Whatever puts their stuff in the best light.

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« Reply #2365 on: December 04, 2013, 11:59:39 PM »

And I'll repeat what I said before. Good initial sales numbers is a very good indication of long term success, as well as an indicator of the corporation's preparation.

It's still up to the business plans of these companies, but high starting sales means a lot room for them to work. You can actually make some predictions off these, but it takes as much of a huge screw up to crash such a good start.

And the Wii U may have sold all of its initial allotment, but it's initial allotment wasn't as large as these, indicating that Nintendo failed to prepare properly for the launch, nor did Nintendo have this many games released, or announced for its system, another indication of inability to prepare for the future. Same for the original Wii, where Nintendo blew through almost all the money they made from the Wii, and couldn't get any more since no one was buying games for it.

Currently, this is already the biggest launch of any console generation ever. And you can't knock that. Sure, there's always a level of caution needed, but to say this means nothing? That's as much BS as saying it means everything.
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JCC
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« Reply #2366 on: December 05, 2013, 01:35:32 AM »

Gamespot editorial: Launch numbers don't matter

The Wii U sold 3 million consoles in its first month. Launch numbers mean nothing.
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wonderpug
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« Reply #2367 on: December 05, 2013, 02:03:53 AM »

So I can't think that it's impressive that both major consoles sold a million units in their first day?  Those numbers mean nothing, and it's not in any way an event to take a note of?
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« Reply #2368 on: December 05, 2013, 02:05:14 AM »

Quote from: wonderpug on December 05, 2013, 02:03:53 AM

So I can't think that it's impressive that both major consoles sold a million units in their first day?  Those numbers mean nothing, and it's not in any way an event to take a note of?

if only Sony had done that, then yes, but since MS did it to then no.   rules
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« Reply #2369 on: December 05, 2013, 02:13:27 AM »

Yeah, Wii U sold, but was run by idiots. We also have to see attach rates for these systems.

Sony so far hasn't acted like idiots.

MS got their act together and pulled the XB1 together enough to get these sales.

Launch numbers do matter, but only if the company behind it takes advantage of it. And when a company does take advantage of it, it sets them up for much great success.

Following the mantra of click-bait articles is just as bad as mindlessly jumping to the conclusion that launch means everything.
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« Reply #2370 on: December 05, 2013, 02:27:04 AM »

I don't have any dog in the console fight. I owned all 3 consoles in the previous gen and own none of the new gen. I still think the ps4 and XBone are the best supplied launches ever, but that's it. IMO it's premature to draw any other conclusions but that. I do firmly believe both sony and Microsoft will be far more successful than the Wii U long term. But, I still believe launch numbers don't mean this will be a more successful (or less successful) generation.
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« Reply #2371 on: December 05, 2013, 02:43:26 AM »

And the reason you believe the XB1 and PS4 will be more successful than the Wii U long term is because this short term success being an indicator of their preparedness. The Wii U may have sold 3 million in a month, but the XB1 and PS4 have sold about 3 million in 1 week and a few days.

I think launch numbers, followed by launch game sales, and a healthy number of announced future titles coming out across a nice spectrum of 2-12 months means quite a bit. And why there is so much support for these is because they are selling so well.

If you bring up the Wii U, we can talk all about how the Wii U had very few if any games people wanted or bought, very few announced future games from third parties, few announced first party Nintendo games. Heck, it was only a few months ago that Nintendo said they would be putting actual money and effort into producing more first party games.
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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #2372 on: December 05, 2013, 03:22:48 AM »

Are we sure on those Wii U numbers, that those are sold through and not shipped?
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« Reply #2373 on: December 05, 2013, 04:19:31 AM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on December 05, 2013, 03:22:48 AM

Are we sure on those Wii U numbers, that those are sold through and not shipped?

I was going by the Gamespot editorial which claimed they sold 3 million in the first month. I have no idea if it's correct or not. I do know the Wii U started off very well too. My point is once the initial demand faded, it has pretty much flopped. I am not saying that either the XBone or PS4 will flop. The only thing I am saying is that the hot launch sales do not mean that the XBone or the PS4 will have huge sustained sales that will eclipse earlier generations. Will either outsell the Wii or the PS2 over their lifespan? Maybe, they will. Maybe they won't. I maintain that the 360 could have easily sold as many consoles as the XBone or PS4 at launch had the SUPPLY been there back in 2005. Same for the Wii.

We're going around in circles, so I'll stop belaboring this from now on. Feel free to get the last word in Turtle.
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Canuck
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« Reply #2374 on: December 05, 2013, 06:34:42 AM »

Quote from: JCC on December 05, 2013, 01:35:32 AM

Gamespot editorial: Launch numbers don't matter

The Wii U sold 3 million consoles in its first month. Launch numbers mean nothing.
Does that stat come from the article? It doesn't feel right.
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« Reply #2375 on: December 05, 2013, 06:48:28 AM »

sales numbers from Nintendo.  they sold 3.45 million in fiscal year 2013, which ended March 31st 2012.  considering it only sold another 460K up to September 2013 I'd say it is possible it had a quick initial burst in sales, hitting 3 million before dying off.
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« Reply #2376 on: December 05, 2013, 06:49:37 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on December 05, 2013, 06:34:42 AM

Quote from: JCC on December 05, 2013, 01:35:32 AM

Gamespot editorial: Launch numbers don't matter

The Wii U sold 3 million consoles in its first month. Launch numbers mean nothing.
Does that stat come from the article? It doesn't feel right.

Wikipedia backs it up, but that number alone doesn't tell the whole story. I believe the number refers to units shipped, not sold (though the sources are unclear about this, the Wikipedia article specifically says "shipped" about the current sales). By the end of 2012 the Wii U had shipped 3.06 million units worldwide. Neither of the PS4 or Xbox One has done this so far (though I believe the Xbox One won't even really try when it comes to Asia), restricting themselves to America and Europe. The PS4 sales numbers are also about units sold, not shipped. I'm not sure about the Xbox One numbers, as I don't think Microsoft was specific about it.

For all we know, these 3 million Wii U consoles could be rotting away on retail store shelves, and they'd still be counted as shipped.
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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #2377 on: December 05, 2013, 12:14:14 PM »

I just recall Wii U being very easy to get at launch.  There were GAF threads and they talked about just going to a store and buying it on the Bombcasts around its launch.  I don't remember it being anything like what we see this year.
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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #2378 on: December 05, 2013, 12:20:03 PM »

And both XB1 and PS4 have outsold the WiiU LTD in the UK now, so its launch couldn't have been that great.   

Didn't they also price cut the WiiU in its first three months?   I ll check when I'm at a computer.
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« Reply #2379 on: December 05, 2013, 01:01:16 PM »

A little bit of detail about the Xbox One's indie program has come out. In order to participate in this program, developers have to agree to have launch parity with other consoles. In other words, they can't be part of ID@Xbox if they don't release the game on Xbox One at the same day as other platforms, or earlier. The only exception was if a game had time exclusivity with Sony at the time that ID@Xbox was first announced. It's not an entirely unreasonable clause in the contract, but it can be pretty harsh for smaller indies who struggle to even release games on one platform at a time. It's definitely much better than the rumored Microsoft-exclusivity that had been previously talked about.

At least one developer, Vlambeer, decided they didn't want to deal with this clause, and used a workaround instead. When they heard that this announcement was coming, they quickly called Sony and asked for a one-month exclusivity deal with them that they naturally got at once. As a result, Vlambeer can now release their game at a tempo that works better for them without straining their resources, only they are now forced to start with the PS4 instead of Xbox One. Since the PS4 was what they had already worked on, this was a more natural solution to them, so the ID@Xbox deal made things tricky without the exclusivity. Ironically, Sony would have never gotten this exclusivity deal (though it would have been temporarily exclusive for logistical reasons anyway) if it wasn't for Microsoft's contract. Tongue

The Vlambeer co-founder interviewed in the linked article speaks warmly about both Sony's and Microsoft's indie programs, and doesn't want to put anyone in a bad light. It's just that one clause they want to get rid of.

The best part about this whole thing is that you can create funny and ironic headlines about it, like this NeoGAF thread title: "ID@Xbox launch clause has dev signing exclusive deal with Sony in order to be on XB1". biggrin
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« Reply #2380 on: December 05, 2013, 06:10:29 PM »

A new wired article says that the Wii u sold only 460,000 over 6 months. I haven't checked the article for details on the numbers though.

Also, it's fine for MS to ask for some kind of parity. I think Sony was doing the same thing with the ps3. But I do think that's what led to more arcade titles showing up only on the 360 until Sonny opened its checkbook for the specific indoors it's known for now.

Edit: found proper info on this. The program that MS has that requires parity also gives the Dev free access to the xb1 SDK, not sure if that includes a devkit system. Seems reasonable enough to ask for something. However Sony has been letting indie devs borrow devkits for free.
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« Reply #2381 on: December 05, 2013, 07:02:42 PM »

Well, Sony apparently doesn't ask for parity from indie developers, which is part of the reason the above developer was bothered by Microsoft asking for it. It's a fine system for bigger devs, but for indies the reality is that they're often not capable of releasing across multiple platforms simultaneously. Forcing them to either do that or go completely exclusive to one platform would be quite detrimental to both them and to us gamers.
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« Reply #2382 on: December 05, 2013, 07:46:44 PM »

Really?

I'd rather see games developed to take advantage of all the features a platform has to offer, rather than making it generic enough that it gets spread onto everything including smartphones.
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« Reply #2383 on: December 05, 2013, 07:49:09 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on December 05, 2013, 06:10:29 PM

The program that MS has that requires parity also gives the Dev free access to the xb1 SDK, not sure if that includes a devkit system. Seems reasonable enough to ask for something. However Sony has been letting indie devs borrow devkits for free.

isn't every XB1 a devkit already?
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« Reply #2384 on: December 05, 2013, 07:51:10 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 05, 2013, 07:49:09 PM

Quote from: Turtle on December 05, 2013, 06:10:29 PM

The program that MS has that requires parity also gives the Dev free access to the xb1 SDK, not sure if that includes a devkit system. Seems reasonable enough to ask for something. However Sony has been letting indie devs borrow devkits for free.

isn't every XB1 a devkit already?
No. They're all beta kits. biggrin

In all seriousness, I believe MS did announce that ID@Xbox people will be able to develop right on the XB1 directly, though I don't think that has necessarily begun yet.
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« Reply #2385 on: December 05, 2013, 07:51:14 PM »

LOL
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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #2386 on: December 06, 2013, 06:32:54 PM »

Ok, this is a bit tired topic, I know but

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-assassins-creed-4-next-gen-face-off


Jeebus Microsoft lose that sharpening filter!

also, WiiU version inferior to PS360, that's kind of sad.
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« Reply #2387 on: December 06, 2013, 08:01:28 PM »

The upscaler on the Xbox One is quite messed up compared to what we're used to from the previous generation. They seem to have decided to apply certain "enhancements" like extreme sharpening and a darkening filter, which only serve to expose the graphical artifacts. According to Digital Foundry, Ryse looks as good as it does partly because they seem to have written their own upscaler instead of using the inbuilt one. At least it looks like developers can choose to use individual effects in the upscaler on their own. It only remains to be seen if they do.
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« Reply #2388 on: December 08, 2013, 12:19:22 AM »

Crickets chirping because nobody cares anymore.
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Turtle
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« Reply #2389 on: December 08, 2013, 12:24:17 AM »

But, apparently you care enough to do a little chirping yourself.

I do care, it looks worse even when not zoomed in.

Thankfully the gameplay has retained some parity, but now imagine playing a dark atmospheric game with that?

If want this talk to stop, stop being such an easy mark about it.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #2390 on: December 08, 2013, 01:38:31 AM »

Don't flip this around. There's only one reason forge and TiLT keep posting this stuff. And it's not some noble mission to inform people.
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« Reply #2391 on: December 08, 2013, 01:43:42 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on December 08, 2013, 12:19:22 AM

Crickets chirping because nobody cares anymore.

YOU actually should care as an XB1 owner, as the sharpening and color altering of the scaler is a patchable issue.  Even at 900p AC4 should not look that much worse like it does there, that's the sharpening filter making the resolution difference worse.  At the very least MS should make it a system wide option.   But if you all just shrug your shoulders and say "LOL, SDF!" then MS will never patch it, so good on you.
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Turtle
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« Reply #2392 on: December 08, 2013, 01:49:20 AM »

Apparently the fix is just to disable 1080p output and force the system to output 720p, and let your TV's upscaler do the work for now.
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« Reply #2393 on: December 08, 2013, 01:59:56 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on December 08, 2013, 01:38:31 AM

Don't flip this around. There's only one reason forge and TiLT keep posting this stuff. And it's not some noble mission to inform people.

Yup

Quote
Apparently the fix is just to disable 1080p output and force the system to output 720p, and let your TV's upscaler do the work for now.

Thanks for the tip, Turtle  thumbsup

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forgeforsaken
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« Reply #2394 on: December 08, 2013, 02:01:45 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on December 08, 2013, 01:49:20 AM

Apparently the fix is just to disable 1080p output and force the system to output 720p, and let your TV's upscaler do the work for now.

For stuff at 720p native that's fine,  but for stuff at 900p you are losing res.  So not really ideal.
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« Reply #2395 on: December 08, 2013, 10:20:22 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on December 08, 2013, 01:38:31 AM

Don't flip this around. There's only one reason forge and TiLT keep posting this stuff.

Indeed. Gaming is my biggest hobby and my life's passion, to the point where I spent 4 years of my life running my own game company. I pride myself of knowing the ins and outs of the industry, at least as far as can be expected by someone on the outside. As a developer, that means also knowing the technical stuff. I learn of these things that I write about. Why shouldn't I be allowed to talk about them? Because you are incapable of separating your gadgets from your own person, taking any negative news as a personal insult? Give me a break! That's your problem, not mine. I do it because some people actually find it interesting, as you'll see above, and because I find it interesting. With the kind of scathing hostility you've been throwing my way recently, I don't give you a second's though when I post these things. You can cry yourself to sleep at night for all I care. I'll still be here, so get used to it.
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« Reply #2396 on: December 08, 2013, 10:28:48 AM »

In other words YK, just ignore TiLT and Forge.  They're not worth the time and misery on your part.  Just enjoy the games and forget the rest.
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« Reply #2397 on: December 08, 2013, 10:39:39 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 08, 2013, 10:28:48 AM

In other words YK, just ignore TiLT and Forge.  They're not worth the time and misery on your part.  Just enjoy the games and forget the rest.

This is excellent advice.
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« Reply #2398 on: December 08, 2013, 12:58:27 PM »

It's not hostility, it's just calling a spade a spade. However, from now on I'll refrain from any personal references.
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« Reply #2399 on: December 08, 2013, 01:03:53 PM »

May your games never get patched.
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