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Question: It's now 30 days until the next generation begins.   I've noticed a lot of shifting of opinions in the last 30 days back and forth.   Which console are you buying in November?
PS4 - 42 (32.3%)
Xbone - 15 (11.5%)
Both - 13 (10%)
Neither - 19 (14.6%)
Waiting until later - 41 (31.5%)
Total Voters: 130

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Author Topic: 2890 Days until launch. Which system are you getting?  (Read 38320 times)
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CeeKay
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« Reply #2440 on: December 12, 2013, 07:47:01 PM »

Quote from: Caine on December 12, 2013, 04:11:02 PM

I think Purge was referring to actual moose, you know, from personal experience.
gotcha.
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« Reply #2441 on: December 12, 2013, 07:48:48 PM »

I've met a moose face-to-face once, on a highway when I was a kid (we were in a car, and he was curious).

Scary-big animal. Would not want to be on its bad side. I'd feel bad about this derail, but at this point discussing moose experiences seems better than the alternative. Tongue
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« Reply #2442 on: December 12, 2013, 07:49:38 PM »

icon_lol
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« Reply #2443 on: December 12, 2013, 08:23:31 PM »

I met a moose once too.  It bit my sister.
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« Reply #2444 on: December 12, 2013, 08:44:10 PM »

Quote from: Caine on December 12, 2013, 08:23:31 PM

I met a moose once too.  It bit my sister.

Mind you, moose bites can be pretty nasty.

So Purge should be a leetle more careful...
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« Reply #2445 on: December 13, 2013, 05:59:13 AM »

Today's lesson in math and media spinicon_lol

Honestly though, I find that Tweet kind of dishonest. I suspect a lot, maybe even a majority, of people won't see what it's really saying and will draw all the wrong conclusions from it. It's fine to put things in a positive light, but sheesh.
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« Reply #2446 on: December 13, 2013, 06:04:15 AM »

Did the Ps4 average 101k units sold per day in November in North America?
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« Reply #2447 on: December 13, 2013, 06:05:52 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2013, 06:04:15 AM

Did the Ps4 average 101k units sold per day in November in North America?

Of course not. That's why the spin works. For the PS4 to beat Major Nelson's spin statistic, they'd have to sell more than double the units the Xbox One sold in November.

Edit: To clarify, the PS4 sold both more units and faster than the Xbox One. It had more sales in 24 hours (1.1 million) in NA than the Xbox One had in the entirety of November (909k). That's why the tweet is so fascinating. It's an outrageously clever way to spin the news.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 06:10:00 AM by TiLT » Logged
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« Reply #2448 on: December 13, 2013, 06:14:01 AM »

there you go.  if you'd clarified in your original post we could have saved two whole posts! biggrin
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« Reply #2449 on: December 13, 2013, 06:26:39 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2013, 06:14:01 AM

there you go.  if you'd clarified in your original post we could have saved two whole posts! biggrin

Why? The Tweet itself says it all. I didn't want to spoil the fun of figuring it out for yourselves.

I'm still not convinced that you've figured it out, btw. slywink
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« Reply #2450 on: December 13, 2013, 06:45:22 AM »

sorry, was eating a cheesecake before bed.  16 vs 9 Tongue
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« Reply #2451 on: December 13, 2013, 11:01:25 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on December 13, 2013, 06:05:52 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2013, 06:04:15 AM

Did the Ps4 average 101k units sold per day in November in North America?

Of course not. That's why the spin works. For the PS4 to beat Major Nelson's spin statistic, they'd have to sell more than double the units the Xbox One sold in November.

Edit: To clarify, the PS4 sold both more units and faster than the Xbox One. It had more sales in 24 hours (1.1 million) in NA than the Xbox One had in the entirety of November (909k). That's why the tweet is so fascinating. It's an outrageously clever way to spin the news.

You're comparing North American sales to US sales.

There are two other countries you may be missing out on. I don't know about Mexico personally, but both consoles are available here in Canada.

So both are spinning the same game. Eat it with a spoon if you will, but we know what's what. I find this quote particularly telling:

Quote from: Time Techland
So much of this is how you spin the numbers, of course, and both sides are spinning furiously. Microsoft says total retail spend on the Xbox One — $1.21 billion — was the most for any console in the U.S….which couldn’t have anything to do with the $100 price differential, of course. Sony, for its part, says the PS4 was the top-selling console in the U.S. for November…which couldn’t have anything to do with Sony’s one-week head start, right?

[ source ]

So your criticism of MS for spinning exclusively? Please ... Roll Eyes I have to go. I just sprained my optic nerve.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 11:05:02 AM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #2452 on: December 13, 2013, 11:17:46 AM »

Quote from: Purge on December 13, 2013, 11:01:25 AM

You're comparing North American sales to US sales.

No. Did you read the Tweet? It very specifically says NA.

Quote
So both are spinning the same game. Eat it with a spoon if you will, but we know what's what. I find this quote particularly telling:

Oh please, enough with the defensive attitude! I wasn't attacking Xbox One or even attacking in the first place. I was making fun of the incredibly deft spin Major Nelson was doing. Why does everything have to be a console war to you people?

Quote
So your criticism of MS for spinning exclusively? Please ... Roll Eyes I have to go. I just sprained my optic nerve.

It would be nice if you used that optic nerve to actually read next time.
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« Reply #2453 on: December 13, 2013, 11:36:25 AM »

Aren't these sales numbers for both Sony and MS a bit of disingenuous at the point?   The real story about numbers and adoption rate should come in 4-6 months when initial supplies have met demand and retailers have stock on hand.   Right now the numbers are just fodder for the fanbois in my opinion
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 12:10:43 PM by Soulchilde » Logged

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NiM$
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« Reply #2454 on: December 13, 2013, 11:49:01 AM »

Yes, that is indeed the case, which makes Major Nelson's tweet even more silly.
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« Reply #2455 on: December 13, 2013, 11:57:18 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on December 13, 2013, 11:17:46 AM

It would be nice if you used that optic nerve to actually read next time.

icon_lol
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« Reply #2456 on: December 13, 2013, 01:22:06 PM »

Quote from: TiLT
Oh please, enough with the defensive attitude! I wasn't attacking Xbox One or even attacking in the first place. I was making fun of the incredibly deft spin Major Nelson was doing. Why does everything have to be a console war to you people?

Because you only post negative news (or discredit positive news) about the Xbox. And then when someone calls you out on it, you claim neutrality.

I don't really care anymore at this point, but I'd say you spin your own posts even better than Major Nelson.   icon_biggrin
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« Reply #2457 on: December 13, 2013, 02:00:37 PM »

This is just more inept MS PR, though clever in a microcosm.  900k is a fantastic launch.  These people need to stop treating their product like a sporting event,  you don't have to sell more to also be successful.  Be proud of your number,  you don't need to bend over backwards to make it more than some other guy who is also selling well... So silly.  It's like the playstation family nonsense Sony started doing last gen.

Anyhoo,  the company in a tough spot is Nintendo.   WiiU is trending around Dreamcast sales levels.  Also third party software on it pretty much dead, and even Mario barely moved  over 200k units.
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« Reply #2458 on: December 13, 2013, 02:01:48 PM »

909000 in the us.

Read.
http://news.xbox.com/2013/12/xbox-one-november-npd-announcement
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« Reply #2459 on: December 13, 2013, 02:10:38 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 13, 2013, 02:01:48 PM


The tweet said NA, as mentioned. Apparently either Microsoft or Major Nelson is wrong. Most likely the latter.

And damn, they took his tweet and raised it to 11 in that press release you just linked to:

Quote
November NPD Group figures released today revealed 909,132 Xbox One units were sold in the U.S. in the console’s first nine days, making it the fastest selling console on the market in the U.S. Xbox One sales averaged a volume of more than 101,000 consoles per day, significantly outpacing the nearest competitor.

Major Nelson's tweet was kind of funny. This press release is almost insulting to our collective intelligence. It's their use of the term "fastest selling console on the market" and "significantly outpacing the nearest competitor" that bothers me, as neither is true no matter how you spin the numbers. Do they take us all for complete idiots?
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« Reply #2460 on: December 13, 2013, 02:11:57 PM »

Just because mjr nelson, MS's mouthpiece failed to say US on a tweet, does not make it correct.

You were the one who came in here with a HAY GUYZ LOOK MATH SPIN FRM MS LULZ post.

I just so happened to check the facts, post relevant info, linked my source, and in this case was a kinda done with that line of conversation in which pretty much everyone agreed already that this crap isn't important to gauge until next year.

 Can we  get back to discussing moose now?

The doc said no more TiLTed posts for 3-6 days, and I just got a prescription for eggnog and rum. SCIENCE!
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« Reply #2461 on: December 13, 2013, 02:15:41 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 13, 2013, 02:11:57 PM

Just because mjr nelson, MS's mouthpiece failed to say US on a tweet, does not make it correct.

He didn't fail to say US. He said NA. Specifically.

Quote
I just so happened to check the facts, post relevant info, linked my source, and in this case was a kinda done with that line of conversation in which pretty much everyone agreed already that this crap isn't important to gauge until next year.

What gauging? What line of conversation? This has nothing to do with the sales comparisons that have been discussed earlier and is exclusively about the hilariously transparent spin MS has just released. Your fact digging hasn't revealed anything of significance to that, except potentially correct it to say US instead of NA. It makes no difference here.
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« Reply #2462 on: December 13, 2013, 03:42:27 PM »

US != NA.

Look it up - you'll find it an atlas. The statement is that in the US alone they were able to sell x units in y time.

The location is not variable, and Mr Hyrb messed up in a tweet. Multiple other sources, including the news.xbox.com also reaffirm this is the case - the stat is US market only. Also, we don't see this kind of derision on every Sony statement, so there is that.

Try saying this: "I was wrong." It's  liberating.

 Spin isn't lying, they're simply making their position an enviable one. Sony is doing the same thing. They have been out a week longer, MS has made more in gross sales. Hawkers will hawk, man.

This morning, Nintendo released a press statement about how Wii U sales went up 340% from October.

Now, how about those moose?
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« Reply #2463 on: December 13, 2013, 04:11:45 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 13, 2013, 03:42:27 PM

US != NA.

Look it up - you'll find it an atlas. The statement is that in the US alone they were able to sell x units in y time.

The location is not variable, and Mr Hyrb messed up in a tweet. Multiple other sources, including the news.xbox.com also reaffirm this is the case - the stat is US market only. Also, we don't see this kind of derision on every Sony statement, so there is that.

Try saying this: "I was wrong." It's  liberating.

 Spin isn't lying, they're simply making their position an enviable one. Sony is doing the same thing. They have been out a week longer, MS has made more in gross sales. Hawkers will hawk, man.

This morning, Nintendo released a press statement about how Wii U sales went up 340% from October.

Now, how about those moose?

MS did not have more in gross sales.  Sony outsold them by about 200k (or more).  This is what TiLt is getting at and apparently you bought the spin hook line and sinker.  To break it down, both Sony and MS did the bulk of their sales on launch weekend.  MS sales probably actually break out into two chunks, 700k launch weekend, and 200k Black Friday as that's when they probably held resupply for for November.  Sony hardly resupplied at all in Nov it seems, likely in prep for Euro launch on the 29th.  Neither console was doing per day sales,  but if you play with averages, you can make it seem like MS sold more per day since they weren't out as long in November.  If Sony launched the same day as MS, Sony without selling any more consoles, is now selling more consoles per day on average than MS.  It's a completely bogus stat that MS is providing not based on any real sales data that they are generating just so they can say "FIRST!" in something.  It's silly and belittles there accomplishment of selling 900k consoles at launch, which I believe is the 2nd biggest console launch in history, 2nd to the PS4.  Both these things are off to a roaring start.

I actually expect MS to take Dec, as they are focusing heavily here with resupply, and rumors of tier2s being further delayed seem to back that up.  Sony is spreading themselves more thin globably and is launching in several Asiapac countries in Dec so they will be allocating stock there.  So MS will probably outstock Sony in NA in Dec.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 04:38:38 PM by forgeforsaken » Logged
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« Reply #2464 on: December 13, 2013, 04:19:24 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 13, 2013, 02:01:48 PM

909000 in the us.
thumbsup
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« Reply #2465 on: December 13, 2013, 04:19:40 PM »

Quote from: Purge on December 13, 2013, 03:42:27 PM

Now, how about those moose?

paging Bullwinkle.
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« Reply #2466 on: December 13, 2013, 04:20:40 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on December 13, 2013, 02:15:41 PM

He didn't fail to say US. He said NA. Specifically. ce to

well, North America just means US plus America's Hat and America's lawn care supplier.
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« Reply #2467 on: December 13, 2013, 04:25:30 PM »

Jesus, when (and more importantly, why) did this turn into a penis size competition?

Quote from: Purge on December 13, 2013, 03:42:27 PM

US != NA.

You keep bringing this up, and I'm still not sure why. Major Nelson said NA when he should have said US. So what? What difference does it make? Then you bring up Mexico for some bizarre reason, despite it not being related to anything I, Major Nelson, Microsoft or Sony said. What are you trying to prove/disprove? I'm honestly not even sure what kind of discussion you're having here, because I'm obviously not part of it. When did I compare NA and US numbers, which seems to be what you're getting at? And most importantly, what does that have to do with Microsoft's spin story? Are you so ashamed of the spin (despite it not being your fault or responsibility in any way, shape or form) that you must do everything in your power to derail any discussion about it?

I would admit to being wrong if I could even remember making some kind of claim that it was even possible to be right or wrong about. Apparently you know something I don't, so out with it!
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« Reply #2468 on: December 13, 2013, 05:13:34 PM »

As a public face for Microsoft's gaming division, it's Major Nelson's job to "spin," which is really just a negative way to say "marketing and promotion." There's nothing wrong with it. Every commercial you watch on TV for every product is doing the same thing.

Apparently MS did a damn good job of it too, because despite being significantly higher priced and suffering months of bad PR, they still managed to sell a shit ton of units. Sony Defense Force - MISSION FAILED. Please return to base.  icon_biggrin

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« Reply #2469 on: December 13, 2013, 05:17:20 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on December 13, 2013, 05:13:34 PM

As a public face for Microsoft's gaming division, it's Major Nelson's job to "spin," which is really just a negative way to say "marketing and promotion." There's nothing wrong with it. Every commercial you watch on TV for every product is doing the same thing.

Apparently MS did a damn good job of it too, because despite being significantly higher priced and suffering months of bad PR, they still managed to sell a shit ton of units. Sony Defense Force - MISSION FAILED. Please return to base.  icon_biggrin


Considering Sony outsold the XB1 on MS' home turf, wouldn't that be a MISSION SUCCESS  ninja
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« Reply #2470 on: December 13, 2013, 05:21:15 PM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on December 13, 2013, 05:17:20 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on December 13, 2013, 05:13:34 PM

As a public face for Microsoft's gaming division, it's Major Nelson's job to "spin," which is really just a negative way to say "marketing and promotion." There's nothing wrong with it. Every commercial you watch on TV for every product is doing the same thing.

Apparently MS did a damn good job of it too, because despite being significantly higher priced and suffering months of bad PR, they still managed to sell a shit ton of units. Sony Defense Force - MISSION FAILED. Please return to base.  icon_biggrin


Considering Sony outsold the XB1 on MS' home turf, wouldn't that be a MISSION SUCCESS  ninja

nope, the SDF should have stopped anyone from buying the XB1.  Even one sale was a failure on your part, let alone 909,000 and counting.  effin' new school SDF, it's like comparing New Direction to New Kids on the Block.
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« Reply #2471 on: December 13, 2013, 05:30:42 PM »

yeah, it is disengenous to say 'higher average in Nov'.  compare the first month if you want to be honest about it. instead, let's look at what they've told us or NPD.

It was reported that PS4 sold 2.1 mil in November, over 17 days.  MS sold 2 mil XB1 in 19 days.  that works out to ~123,529 and ~105,263.  
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« Reply #2472 on: December 13, 2013, 05:49:03 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2013, 05:21:15 PM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on December 13, 2013, 05:17:20 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on December 13, 2013, 05:13:34 PM

As a public face for Microsoft's gaming division, it's Major Nelson's job to "spin," which is really just a negative way to say "marketing and promotion." There's nothing wrong with it. Every commercial you watch on TV for every product is doing the same thing.

Apparently MS did a damn good job of it too, because despite being significantly higher priced and suffering months of bad PR, they still managed to sell a shit ton of units. Sony Defense Force - MISSION FAILED. Please return to base.  icon_biggrin


Considering Sony outsold the XB1 on MS' home turf, wouldn't that be a MISSION SUCCESS  ninja

nope, the SDF should have stopped anyone from buying the XB1.  Even one sale was a failure on your part, let alone 909,000 and counting.  effin' new school SDF, it's like comparing New Direction to New Kids on the Block.
You're confusing the Sony Defense Force with the Sony Assault Force. 
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« Reply #2473 on: December 13, 2013, 05:54:59 PM »

I thought it was Assaulters: Sony Strike Mission United National Combat Heavy Emergency Recon Services.
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« Reply #2474 on: December 13, 2013, 05:59:34 PM »

Anecdotally it's been a lot easier to find XB1's in stock around here than PS4's, although I'm thinking it's more of a supply issue than demand issue this early in the game.
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« Reply #2475 on: December 13, 2013, 06:05:50 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on December 13, 2013, 05:59:13 AM

Today's lesson in math and media spinicon_lol

Honestly though, I find that Tweet kind of dishonest. I suspect a lot, maybe even a majority, of people won't see what it's really saying and will draw all the wrong conclusions from it. It's fine to put things in a positive light, but sheesh.

This is you, not me. My penis isn't in any way involved in this offshoot of a dead discussion.

Quote from: TiLT on December 13, 2013, 06:26:39 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2013, 06:14:01 AM

there you go.  if you'd clarified in your original post we could have saved two whole posts! biggrin

Why? The Tweet itself says it all. I didn't want to spoil the fun of figuring it out for yourselves.

I'm still not convinced that you've figured it out, btw. slywink

So clever. Here, have a cookie. We must all be dumb, because you're, you know, a game developer and therefore are better at maths and thinking things.

Oh wait, in case there are any other ignoramuses, or is that ignoramii out there, MS had less days in November to sell, making it a "faster selling" console. The other side is that Sony's distribution of consoles is different and therefore have different things to tout - effectively both sides are saying "Our apples are the best apples ever and are groundbreaking in sales!" VS "Our oranges taste better than anyone elses oranges and have set new records in sales!"

Both are fruit, both are selling like the lucrative hotcake industry (or so the Pancake/Waffle Consortium wants us to believe).

I googled "Xbox one sales figures" and the Time article I linked above stated US numbers. Then I followed their sources (you know, those extra two clicks) to find out what they were building off of. It's not defensive - and if you read it that way then *you've* missed the point. I earn zero dollars based on anyones sales. In fact, I'd say that you stand more to gain than I when it comes to market share. Exactly none of the dollars I make to put food on my table for me and my family are game-driven, so I couldn't care *less* about the spin of any of the three companies.

Dear ForgeForsaken,

You do realize that by the VERY NATURE OF THE PRICE DIFFERENCE, if MS are not more  than 19.9999% in sales behind Sony, their gross earnings will be higher, as marginal as that may be in terms of profit. (500 vs 400 - how's THAT for math!). SCIENCE!

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So I'm seriously considering getting a Wii U for my son for Christmas. He loves the 3DS Lego game, and with Mario games being a solid win, it just might be right to get him the Skylanders Wii bundle. I think I`m going to hold off till his Bday (summertime) though.

Wii shall see what Santa has to say....
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« Reply #2476 on: December 13, 2013, 06:06:07 PM »

I heard that neither has sold well in the Maldives....
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« Reply #2477 on: December 13, 2013, 06:08:08 PM »

Quote from: JayDee on December 13, 2013, 05:59:34 PM

Anecdotally it's been a lot easier to find XB1's in stock around here than PS4's, although I'm thinking it's more of a supply issue than demand issue this early in the game.


If you're in NA this might be the case.  As Tilt pointed out MS seems to be focusing on this region while Sony is taking a more global approach.   Again these early NPD numbers mean nothing and can be spun multiple ways by Sony & MS.   Real indication of market lead will come in 4-6 months..   My unscientific estimation is that Sony will win out in that time frame.  Most of my friends with children seem to  want the PS4 as that's what I'm being asked about mostly from my non gaming parents

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« Reply #2478 on: December 13, 2013, 06:09:06 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 13, 2013, 06:06:07 PM

I heard that neither has sold well in the Maldives....

I haven`t heard anything about this.

Do you have your PC dictate the forums to you? I imagine that would slow down your processing of all this information.
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« Reply #2479 on: December 13, 2013, 06:09:18 PM »

Quote from: JayDee on December 13, 2013, 05:59:34 PM

Anecdotally it's been a lot easier to find XB1's in stock around here than PS4's, although I'm thinking it's more of a supply issue than demand issue this early in the game.

like I said, I was surprised to see both in stock yesterday, just sitting there on the shelves.
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