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Author Topic: [XBLA] Braid  (Read 4455 times)
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EddieA
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« on: May 22, 2008, 06:31:17 AM »

IGN has a preview of the time-bending puzzle game Braid for XBLA.  The time-bending mechanic sounds really intriguing, especially since they use it in different ways in each level.  Game Informer also praised it, calling it "a hallmark release I can't recommend highly enough".  The preview lists a release of Q3 2008, but I hope it's not that far off.
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2008, 05:20:24 PM »

I wanted to come in here and mock this with references to Blinx the Time Travelin' Cat but now I can't because it looks pretty great.
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Misguided
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 10:23:22 PM »

*Arise Sir Loin of Beef!*

Braid is out. Braid is amazing. You go buy now. That is all.

Seriously, though, I implore folks with any kind of interest in puzzlers/platformers
to check out the demo for this game. I'm still early on (solved one world, working on another)
and it is unlike anything I've ever played (although in a minor way it does remind me of an old
favorite puzzler of mine called Stardust). It has a lovely hand-drawn look and rather soothing,
moody music to boot.

The game is tough to describe but the demo lets you play through the entirety of World 2.
No spoilers but I will say that it is possible to collect all the puzzle pieces in the demo.
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 10:57:19 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on August 06, 2008, 10:23:22 PM

*Arise Sir Loin of Beef!*

Braid is out. Braid is amazing. You go buy now. That is all.

Seriously, though, I implore folks with any kind of interest in puzzlers/platformers
to check out the demo for this game. I'm still early on (solved one world, working on another)
and it is unlike anything I've ever played (although in a minor way it does remind me of an old
favorite puzzler of mine called Stardust). It has a lovely hand-drawn look and rather soothing,
moody music to boot.

The game is tough to describe but the demo lets you play through the entirety of World 2.
No spoilers but I will say that it is possible to collect all the puzzle pieces in the demo.

Very important point.

This is an amazing, beautiful game.  Reminds me of the Orsinal games, but with more depth.  http://www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/  Similar beauty and lazy sunday feel.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 11:47:26 PM by Bullwinkle » Logged

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Simon
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 01:58:15 AM »

Tried the demo and thought it was really, really cool. I might pick it up this week.
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2008, 02:11:16 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 06, 2008, 10:57:19 PM


Very important point.

Yeah, it's kind of easy to go along and think that there's stuff you will have to come back
to much later in the game (because it is tricky to get to), but I cleared all of world 2 before I paid for the game.

It's quite brain-bending. I hope it holds up the whole way through without becoming too
hard or tedious. Regardless, it's the kind of development effort I want to support.
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2008, 05:21:51 AM »

this reminds me of a Flash game, Chronotron - give it a try.

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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2008, 11:06:40 AM »

I can't see how this is going to do anything but fail on XBL.  It's expensive, artsy, old school platformy, and it talks about love and loss.  Seems better suited for the PSN crowd than XBL.
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2008, 12:41:11 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on August 07, 2008, 11:06:40 AM

I can't see how this is going to do anything but fail on XBL.  It's expensive, artsy, old school platformy, and it talks about love and loss.  Seems better suited for the PSN crowd than XBL.

There are distinct crowds that own those consoles?  Crap.  Nobody told me and I went and bought them both and the Wii. slywink
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2008, 01:23:07 PM »

Beautiful demo. Too bad I'm to dense to figure out how to get all the pieces in even this early part of the game. I want to purchase it, but I'm afraid I'll get stuck early on and damage my skull by by beating my controller against it.
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Misguided
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2008, 01:35:02 PM »

Keep at it for a bit. Have a peek around the environment.
Is there anything that seems extraneous?
There was a lot of trial and error in my case, but that's
why the rewind mechanic is so cool the way they implemented
it, there's no penalty for exploring different ideas.
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2008, 02:56:20 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on August 07, 2008, 02:11:16 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 06, 2008, 10:57:19 PM


Very important point.

Yeah, it's kind of easy to go along and think that there's stuff you will have to come back
to much later in the game (because it is tricky to get to), but I cleared all of world 2 before I paid for the game.

It's quite brain-bending. I hope it holds up the whole way through without becoming too
hard or tedious. Regardless, it's the kind of development effort I want to support.

One review I read said there was no difficulty ramp up at all.  It stays about the same (though, presumably with innovations in use of the core mechanics coming each step of the way).

I've finished two levels and it's important to also note that each level so far has been self contained.  In other words, you don't have to do something in another level to unlock the level you're on. 

One very minor hint that is not a spoiler, but I'll spoiler it anyway:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Pay attention to the level titles, sometimes they give a nudge.
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2008, 02:58:57 PM »

The thing that kind of sucks is that they don't teach you how to play at all.  If you don't figure it out right away, you're pretty much hosed.  Like in that first world I can't figure out how to get to a couple of the pieces, and no amount of jumping in one place and rewinding is going to get me high enough to reach it.
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2008, 03:02:45 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on August 07, 2008, 02:58:57 PM

The thing that kind of sucks is that they don't teach you how to play at all.  If you don't figure it out right away, you're pretty much hosed.  Like in that first world I can't figure out how to get to a couple of the pieces, and no amount of jumping in one place and rewinding is going to get me high enough to reach it.

There are some mechanics that are definitely surprising - in fact, I think I would never ever have gotten to the two pieces at the end of the world 2 Cloud Bridge level without looking at a message board.  It just didn't occur to me that the game could possibly work that way.

To be sure, I still heart it very very much.  Now that I'm thinking a little more outside the box, I'm having more success.
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2008, 03:05:12 PM »

Ugh, I had trouble finishing world 2 (where the heck is World 1....haven't found it yet) but I did enjoy a game that didn't start with a menu screen.  I didn't even get all the puzzle pieces in one pass.  Must explore more tonight after I test out BF:BC Conquest mode.
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2008, 03:19:21 PM »

I loved getting the last piece of the puzzle right by the puzzle itself.

Spoiler for in case Misguided was being serious:
Moving the picture to get the ledge in it in place to get the monster to bounce off is genius.
I couldn't get to the cloud though. frown
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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2008, 03:26:45 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on August 07, 2008, 03:02:45 PM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on August 07, 2008, 02:58:57 PM

The thing that kind of sucks is that they don't teach you how to play at all.  If you don't figure it out right away, you're pretty much hosed.  Like in that first world I can't figure out how to get to a couple of the pieces, and no amount of jumping in one place and rewinding is going to get me high enough to reach it.

There are some mechanics that are definitely surprising - in fact, I think I would never ever have gotten to the two pieces at the end of the world 2 Cloud Bridge level without looking at a message board.  It just didn't occur to me that the game could possibly work that way.

To be sure, I still heart it very very much.  Now that I'm thinking a little more outside the box, I'm having more success.

They should definitely hold your hand just a little bit at the beginning, so that you know what sort of things are possible.  Not spell it out, but guide you to that outside the box thinking.  Even letting you know that the stages are self contained would have helped.  I went to a forum, thinking that I needed to eventually unlock a double jump, and I wanted to see how far I had to wait to do that.  I feel shamed that I used a hint, but the people who figured out the
Spoiler for Hiden:
puzzle puzzle
mostly stumbled on it by accident.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 02:51:06 PM by Bullwinkle » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2008, 06:22:32 PM »

played world 2, then went back and got all the pieces, (without hinting, i might add somewhat happily) and before i knew it, i was buying the whole damn enchilada. 

i haven't been able to get 2 pieces in the 3rd world and only just started on world 4 before kicking off a new game in condemned 2.  (btw, how's that for an extreme contrast in games) and while i see the intended solution, i don't see how it can work for me just yet.  this is the set of three locked doors in the cave on that somewhat long level.  the other piece is probably a timing issue as i can't see to get up where i need to go fast enough just yet. 

i love the rewind mechanic and how the glowing green objects work in that regard.  one thing i found on accident is how you can speed up your rewinding with the bumpers.  it really helps out with the green objects as they move at normal speed while you speed along. 

btw, i loved the first boss encounter. 
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2008, 07:34:09 PM »

Quote from: Caine on August 07, 2008, 06:22:32 PM

btw, i loved the first boss encounter. 

Bosses? what is it, a calligraphy sudoku grid?
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2008, 12:11:00 PM »

Purge, you should spoiler tag your previous post.
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« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2008, 01:52:31 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on August 08, 2008, 12:11:00 PM

Purge, you should spoiler tag your previous post.

The ledge one or the su|do|ku one? Tongue
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« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2008, 12:18:47 AM »

So...anybody have a decent place to find hints for this game?  I realize the official stance is "do not use a walkthrough", but I don't play games to be frustrated and Jonathan Blow can screw off.   If I get stuck in Sam & Max I don't feel like I've cheapened the experience by reading a hint that says I need to use the lobster with the clown or something. 

Maybe some of the puzzles become obvious after you have gone much farther in the game, but it didn't seem to from what I've played.
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« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2008, 03:39:03 AM »

I finally got to try this out, and I really like it.  I got through the first three worlds, and got all the puzzle pieces in each. 

Frequently, the solution came from simply paying close attention to how the environment/creatures react to the various time-bending abilities, and capitalizing on it.  It does seem like there's a definite period of adjustment as your brain wraps itself around the various ways you can manipulate time (world 4 in particular was very trippy).  I found that I was pretty much always able to get all the pieces in each level.  It seemed like it was mostly logic puzzle-solving involved.

And you know, I like the game quite a bit, but the designer really needs to shut up.  He's quickly becoming one of those creators to whom the phrase "love the art, hate the artist" applies.  See also Roman Polanski and Harlan Ellison.  If you want people to play your game, don't be a dick.  He's not wrong about a lot of things, but there are better ways to put things.
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« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2008, 04:02:48 AM »

I'm with Chaz presently.  The designer seems obsessed with the idea that his puzzles are perfect and need no explanation.  Which, of course, I think the puzzle puzzle proves that one wrong.

Still, I too really, really like the game.  It's just damn clever in a lot of places.  Plus, I love the bits that play off of previous games, like Donkey Kong.
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« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2008, 05:40:47 AM »

Fuck Harlan Ellison - that man is a douche.
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« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2008, 06:27:53 AM »

played the demo. was impressed by the music. was even more impressed by the puzzles. purchased.

also yes, that guy does have a complex with his puzzles. some of them just don't seem very clear. trial and error is only so fun. i haven't gotten very far, only finished the first world. but from what i'm hearing some of the later stuff is ridiculous.
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« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2008, 03:20:40 PM »

I agree that trial and error can be frustrating in many games.
In Braid, though, I think the intent is that trial and error is
part of the gameplay. That is, the forgiving nature of the time
mechanic is such that you're encouraged to try things to figure
out what the various rules are.

Unfortunately, I have been exceptionally busy at work this week,
so I haven't been able to play. From what I understand, though,
nearly all the puzzle pieces should be attainable when you first see them.

I'm not sure where the comments concerning Mr. Blow stem from.
Yes I've seen the "walkthrough", which was linked from fidgit.
(and while he says the puzzles don't require trial and error, I'd argue
that figuring out how stuff works does, but that's ok)
I understand where he is coming from here. The fun in a game like
this comes from the joy of discovery of how it works. It's obvious
that a lot of soul went into the game and his preference is that
people get the sense of discovery that comes from figuring stuff
out on their own. But hey, it's still your 1200 bones so if you want to
read a walkthrough, be my guest.
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« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2008, 08:47:08 PM »

Played the demo and got all the puzzle pieces in World 2.  I love the do-over mechanic in the game as it encourages you to try things.  I will definitely be picking this one up.
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« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2008, 11:32:15 PM »

This is the ONLY platformer that has me tempted.  It's like a scrolling work of art.  Love that.  But GawD! How I hate platforming games. 


Maybe some day I will have lost my mind or grown old and feel differently and grab it.  Very cool looking game. 
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2008, 01:09:32 AM »

Quote from: mikeg on August 09, 2008, 11:32:15 PM

This is the ONLY platformer that has me tempted.  It's like a scrolling work of art.  Love that.  But GawD! How I hate platforming games. 


Maybe some day I will have lost my mind or grown old and feel differently and grab it.  Very cool looking game. 

Way to nail the platformer demographic.  We're all old and cuh-raaaaazee.
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« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2008, 03:27:18 PM »

Here's my end game impressions, cross posted from OO:

I beat the game.  It's pretty close to about 4 hours of gameplay, and I only needed hints twice.  After that, I used the advice of forum members when they noted to just experiment with all the items you have in your area, and it became clear after that.

Two final things:

1) There are 8 VERY hidden stars in the game.  Nobody knows precisely what they do yet, or at least haven't recorded the effects properly yet.  Trust me when I say that you aren't going to find them unless somebody tells you where they are.

2) End game interpretation of the story (from my view, I've seen a LOT of differing views on what the end game means.)

Spoiler for Hiden:
The title of Braid comes from Tim when he was a child.  His mother had a braid, which from a young age Tim was abusive and would pull violently on the braid in order to get things from his mother.  Tim also happened to be very bright, and became one of the scientists working on the Manhattan project.  Later in life he married a girl, but Tim continued to be abusive and probably even had an affair, which was his mistake that the game keeps talking about.  Eventually, his wife runs away and joins up with her new boyfriend/husband and Tim is left with a true wreckage of a life in which he pretty much has caused all of his own problems.

Most of the game is spent dealing with Tim thinking about various events of his past in highly metaphorical ways, and once all of the puzzles are complete he gets to relive the day when his wife ran away from him.  Tim is an asshole.
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« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2008, 09:19:20 PM »

I am absolutely loving this gem.  It's takes a very unique experience for me to get in to platformers these days but Braid definitely has it.

I feel it probably should have been 800 points, but I've certainly enjoyed the game so far and don't have regrets about the price.  I only have 4 or 5 more puzzle pieces to snag.  I'm tempted to look up a hint for the "Hunt" level on World 3 as I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.  But then again I'm down to the last few and don't want to shorten an already bite sized game.

I'll have to look up those stars as I had no idea about them.

thumbsup thumbsup
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« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2008, 02:21:37 AM »

Quote from: Jancelot on August 10, 2008, 09:19:20 PM

I am absolutely loving this gem.  It's takes a very unique experience for me to get in to platformers these days but Braid definitely has it.

I feel it probably should have been 800 points, but I've certainly enjoyed the game so far and don't have regrets about the price.  I only have 4 or 5 more puzzle pieces to snag.  I'm tempted to look up a hint for the "Hunt" level on World 3 as I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.  But then again I'm down to the last few and don't want to shorten an already bite sized game.

I'll have to look up those stars as I had no idea about them.

thumbsup thumbsup

Is that the area where time flows forwards as you move right and backwards as you move left?

If so, I might recommend testing out how you can double bounce on creatures.
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« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2008, 04:30:34 AM »

Quote from: ChrisGrenard on August 11, 2008, 02:21:37 AM

Quote from: Jancelot on August 10, 2008, 09:19:20 PM

I am absolutely loving this gem.  It's takes a very unique experience for me to get in to platformers these days but Braid definitely has it.

I feel it probably should have been 800 points, but I've certainly enjoyed the game so far and don't have regrets about the price.  I only have 4 or 5 more puzzle pieces to snag.  I'm tempted to look up a hint for the "Hunt" level on World 3 as I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.  But then again I'm down to the last few and don't want to shorten an already bite sized game.

I'll have to look up those stars as I had no idea about them.

thumbsup thumbsup

Is that the area where time flows forwards as you move right and backwards as you move left?

If so, I might recommend testing out how you can double bounce on creatures.

I'm having a rough time with that one myself, even with the double bouncing.  I declare that one Impossible, even with a computer.  Although I think that one is World 4, not 3.
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« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2008, 05:13:21 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 11, 2008, 04:30:34 AM

Quote from: ChrisGrenard on August 11, 2008, 02:21:37 AM

Quote from: Jancelot on August 10, 2008, 09:19:20 PM

I am absolutely loving this gem.  It's takes a very unique experience for me to get in to platformers these days but Braid definitely has it.

I feel it probably should have been 800 points, but I've certainly enjoyed the game so far and don't have regrets about the price.  I only have 4 or 5 more puzzle pieces to snag.  I'm tempted to look up a hint for the "Hunt" level on World 3 as I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.  But then again I'm down to the last few and don't want to shorten an already bite sized game.

I'll have to look up those stars as I had no idea about them.

thumbsup thumbsup

Is that the area where time flows forwards as you move right and backwards as you move left?

If so, I might recommend testing out how you can double bounce on creatures.

I'm having a rough time with that one myself, even with the double bouncing.  I declare that one Impossible, even with a computer.  Although I think that one is World 4, not 3.

Yeah, it is world 4.  Just remember that World 1 is the "Final" level that you have, since so much of the game is backwards.

Also, the Epilogue has a TON of hidden text that's hard to read.  This is how you get it, and trust me, this isn't exactly spoiler territory:  On most screens there's a red book, right?  Well, you need to open it, then make sure you don't close it by hitting a green book.  Now go and wander behind the various scenery in each section.  If you hear chanting, then the text is changing and you can read other hidden parts of the story.  Very clever.
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« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2008, 05:32:34 AM »

Quote from: ChrisGrenard on August 11, 2008, 05:13:21 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 11, 2008, 04:30:34 AM

Quote from: ChrisGrenard on August 11, 2008, 02:21:37 AM

Quote from: Jancelot on August 10, 2008, 09:19:20 PM

I am absolutely loving this gem.  It's takes a very unique experience for me to get in to platformers these days but Braid definitely has it.

I feel it probably should have been 800 points, but I've certainly enjoyed the game so far and don't have regrets about the price.  I only have 4 or 5 more puzzle pieces to snag.  I'm tempted to look up a hint for the "Hunt" level on World 3 as I just can't seem to wrap my head around it.  But then again I'm down to the last few and don't want to shorten an already bite sized game.

I'll have to look up those stars as I had no idea about them.

thumbsup thumbsup

Is that the area where time flows forwards as you move right and backwards as you move left?

If so, I might recommend testing out how you can double bounce on creatures.

I'm having a rough time with that one myself, even with the double bouncing.  I declare that one Impossible, even with a computer.  Although I think that one is World 4, not 3.

Yeah, it is world 4.  Just remember that World 1 is the "Final" level that you have, since so much of the game is backwards.

Also, the Epilogue has a TON of hidden text that's hard to read.  This is how you get it, and trust me, this isn't exactly spoiler territory:  On most screens there's a red book, right?  Well, you need to open it, then make sure you don't close it by hitting a green book.  Now go and wander behind the various scenery in each section.  If you hear chanting, then the text is changing and you can read other hidden parts of the story.  Very clever.

I know my problem is in World 4, but I wasn't sure if that is also Jancelot's problem.

Thanks for the book tip.  Never would have spotted that.
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Misguided
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« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2008, 01:24:09 PM »

I got through that hunt level yesterday, but took me a bit to figure out
how to approach it. There are some other spots that are really giving me fits.
I still have a couple of pieces in World 3 I can't get to, so I started messing
around with 4 and 5.
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« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2008, 02:19:38 PM »

I picked this up last night. I think it is a pretty brilliant game, but having said that it's so frustrating at times, I don't think I would say I love it, but I still like it a lot. I would have *never* finished World 2 without looking up some help online. World 3 was pretty straightforward, with only "Irreversible" giving me some minor problems. If any of you are having problems in there, my advice is to:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Leave and reenter the room
(Not really spoilery, but better safe than sorry.)

I am now completely, brain killingly stuck on the World 4 "Hunt" level. I am going to think about it today, but I think I am going to have to get a hint somewhere to get by it. I have actually found World 4 to be my least favorite part of the game so far. Yes it's a VERY clever mechanic, but I have had more frustration than fun on it so far.
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-John

XBox Live ID: "JCC Davros"
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« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2008, 02:31:42 PM »

JCC, about that hunt level,

Spoiler for *kinda obvious but behind tag anyway*:
The important thing to realize is that you can't use the ladder on the far left.
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« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2008, 05:57:38 PM »

I love it.  The soundtrack is just beautiful, not to mention the actual artwork.  It's the kind of game I play and then get angry that I didn't think to make it myself  icon_evil Stuck trying to wrap my mind around how shadow-Tim works right now.  Lots of fun.
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