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Author Topic: Xbox One Discussion  (Read 77613 times)
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TiLT
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« Reply #3480 on: October 07, 2014, 05:35:09 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 07, 2014, 05:33:08 PM

You mean PC gaming hasn't been hampered by consolitis?

Not in this way, and the very, very few times when it has happened (Dark Souls, for example), there was uproar about it, as there should be.
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« Reply #3481 on: October 07, 2014, 05:47:31 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 07, 2014, 05:35:09 PM

Quote from: Purge on October 07, 2014, 05:33:08 PM

You mean PC gaming hasn't been hampered by consolitis?

Not in this way, and the very, very few times when it has happened (Dark Souls, for example), there was uproar about it, as there should be.


I'm not saying PS4 owners don't have a right to bitch - look at the PS3/360 launch where the NFS game was abysmal on PS3 due to poor dev kits.

I think MS putting the resources around helping developers isn't a bad thing though. I consider that a lesson learned.
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TiLT
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« Reply #3482 on: October 07, 2014, 06:11:01 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 07, 2014, 05:47:31 PM

I think MS putting the resources around helping developers isn't a bad thing though. I consider that a lesson learned.

Yup, that's a good thing for all parties. Everyone benefits from that kind of thing, and I applaud Microsoft for taking an active role in improving the quality of third-party games on the Xbox One.

Just to be clear: I'm fully blaming Ubisoft for the situation they've managed to squirm themselves into this time. They made the wrong call, a call that will reduce the quality of the product more than half of their console customers are likely to choose, and that is never okay. We can only speculate about their reasoning, but speculation aside, there's just no explanation that will suffice in this case. Even the CPU excuse they came up with doesn't hold water, as that doesn't change the power scale between the two consoles.
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« Reply #3483 on: October 07, 2014, 06:49:17 PM »

When games are CPU bound it usually doesn't impact resolution, that's why the framerate still sucks when you keep dropping the res on some PC titles.
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« Reply #3484 on: October 08, 2014, 12:52:54 PM »

Anyone know what the warranty support is for the XB1 controller? It's a launch 2013 controller and it has not been abused but my right stick will automatically raise my view up and up and up unless I don't correct it...
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« Reply #3485 on: October 08, 2014, 06:11:11 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on October 07, 2014, 04:07:17 PM

A comment from someone on the Ubi team has made me worried about these consoles, he basically said that AI is processed by the CPU and that the PS4/Xbox are not powerful enough to handle the game above 30FPS (steadily) because of it. Granted, AC games tend to have more AI characters on screen at once than most games, but it's still disheartening. I'm hoping the limitation is overcome as time goes on or at least only applies to open-world games of this magnitude.

Keep in mind that (apparently) both consoles are 1.6GHz quad-core AMD machines of some generation. I'm not at all surprised we're running into problems especially considering that PCs are available 2GHz faster (and I'm guessing a generation or two ahead in efficiency, too).

In short, there's no way we're reaching the 'mythical' 1080p at 60fps this console generation either.
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« Reply #3486 on: October 08, 2014, 06:44:38 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on October 08, 2014, 06:11:11 PM

Quote from: Ridah on October 07, 2014, 04:07:17 PM

A comment from someone on the Ubi team has made me worried about these consoles, he basically said that AI is processed by the CPU and that the PS4/Xbox are not powerful enough to handle the game above 30FPS (steadily) because of it. Granted, AC games tend to have more AI characters on screen at once than most games, but it's still disheartening. I'm hoping the limitation is overcome as time goes on or at least only applies to open-world games of this magnitude.

Keep in mind that (apparently) both consoles are 1.6GHz quad-core AMD machines of some generation. I'm not at all surprised we're running into problems especially considering that PCs are available 2GHz faster (and I'm guessing a generation or two ahead in efficiency, too).

In short, there's no way we're reaching the 'mythical' 1080p at 60fps this console generation either.

Huh? That doesn't even make sense with all the 1080p 60fps games we've already had for this new generation. This wouldn't have been even slightly different had these consoles had double the power they have now. Do you know why? It's because AAA developers would still have been pushing them to their very limits. They consider 30 fps to be a good trade-off in the battle to have the most impressive visuals. More power available would simply have raised the bar for the graphics quality, not for the framerate. Indie devs that aren't focusing on state-of-the-art graphics have had no issues reaching 60 fps with their games, nor have AAA developers who have made it a point to achieve 60 fps (The Last of Us and Wolfenstein, to name two, as well as the upcoming Uncharted 4 to name one that is incredibly impressive graphically).

Also, you're confusing CPU and GPU as far as I can tell. The two consoles both have a variation of AMD GPUs, but that's not what the Ubisoft spokesman was talking about. He was talking about CPU limitations (which is just silly to anyone who's programmed games, as the AI he's talking about would run separately from the graphics pipeline anyway. He's essentially lying about technical issues as a form of damage reduction, hoping that people won't be able to tell). Both consoles have 8-core CPUs, with the PS4 using an AMD Jaguar, and the Xbox One using a custom Microsoft-developed 8-core CPU. Exact processor speeds haven't been announced, at least not for the PS4 as far as I know.  
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 06:46:23 PM by TiLT » Logged
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« Reply #3487 on: October 08, 2014, 08:58:35 PM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on October 07, 2014, 04:25:45 PM

Quote from: Ridah on October 07, 2014, 04:07:17 PM

Who cares about the resolution? You can't even tell the difference between 900 and 1080. When the PS4 version of Black Flag got patched with the higher resolution I could not discern the increase, and I'm a certified graphics whore. It's the framerate that bums me out as I was hoping for 60fps.

A comment from someone on the Ubi team has made me worried about these consoles, he basically said that AI is processed by the CPU and that the PS4/Xbox are not powerful enough to handle the game above 30FPS (steadily) because of it. Granted, AC games tend to have more AI characters on screen at once than most games, but it's still disheartening. I'm hoping the limitation is overcome as time goes on or at least only applies to open-world games of this magnitude.

I absolutely could tell the difference pre/post patch.

The actual resolutions aren't the real story though, it's a developer saying they are intentionally not taking full advantage of hardware to keep both versions at parity.  That's nonsense.  Can you imagine if the PC version was limited to 900P/30FPS to exactly match the console versions?  Do you think THAT would go over well, with a "you can't tell the difference" ?

The difference you noticed has less to do with the resolution increasing and more to do with other graphical effects being tweaked, that's my understanding of it, at least. In most games where they've compared Xbox One's lower resolution to PS4's higher resolution, the difference was nearly impossible to discern.

From Ubisoft on the AC4 patch (link):

"The most important part of this title update is not necessarily 1080p native resolution," said associate producer Sylvain Trottier in a blog post announcing the patch. "It's the fact that even when we were done with the project, even when we were finished with the certification and everything else, even when most of the engineers had started to work on other projects--like we always do at Ubisoft--some of my engineers continued to work on Black Flag and they even developed a brand-new anti-aliasing technique."

I've been on the defensive side of this debate so far which is strange because graphics are a critical aspect of a game for me. But you simply can't tell the difference between 900p and 1080p and it's ridiculous how much people are complaining about it. The resolution drama is so arbitrary.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 09:01:26 PM by Ridah » Logged

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« Reply #3488 on: October 08, 2014, 09:05:07 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on October 08, 2014, 08:58:35 PM

I've been on the defensive side of this debate so far which is strange because graphics are a critical aspect of a game for me. But you simply can't tell the difference between 900p and 1080p and it's ridiculous how much people are complaining about it. The resolution drama is so arbitrary.

I respect your opinion, but this is simply wrong. The idea that people can't tell the various near-HD resolutions apart from actual HD resolutions comes from a chart that has been widely distributed in discussions like these, but that chart is factually wrong. People with normal eyesight can see individual pixels, even at 1080p resolution, from a surprisingly long range.

Note that this is only valid for games. Movies are so supersampled that it becomes somewhat harder to tell the upper resolutions apart from a distance.

Edit: As for the AC4 quote you edited in, Digital Foundry has an article about that. The AA technique was added for both Xbox One and PS4, leaving nothing but the resolution and some framerate differences to separate them, and the two versions are still easy to tell apart in graphical quality.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 09:07:05 PM by TiLT » Logged
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« Reply #3489 on: October 08, 2014, 09:07:04 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on October 08, 2014, 08:58:35 PM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on October 07, 2014, 04:25:45 PM

Quote from: Ridah on October 07, 2014, 04:07:17 PM

Who cares about the resolution? You can't even tell the difference between 900 and 1080. When the PS4 version of Black Flag got patched with the higher resolution I could not discern the increase, and I'm a certified graphics whore. It's the framerate that bums me out as I was hoping for 60fps.

A comment from someone on the Ubi team has made me worried about these consoles, he basically said that AI is processed by the CPU and that the PS4/Xbox are not powerful enough to handle the game above 30FPS (steadily) because of it. Granted, AC games tend to have more AI characters on screen at once than most games, but it's still disheartening. I'm hoping the limitation is overcome as time goes on or at least only applies to open-world games of this magnitude.

I absolutely could tell the difference pre/post patch.

The actual resolutions aren't the real story though, it's a developer saying they are intentionally not taking full advantage of hardware to keep both versions at parity.  That's nonsense.  Can you imagine if the PC version was limited to 900P/30FPS to exactly match the console versions?  Do you think THAT would go over well, with a "you can't tell the difference" ?

The difference you noticed has less to do with the resolution increasing and more to do with other graphical effects being tweaked, that's my understanding of it, at least. In most games where they've compared Xbox One's lower resolution to PS4's higher resolution, the difference was nearly impossible to discern.

From Ubisoft on the AC4 patch (link):

"The most important part of this title update is not necessarily 1080p native resolution," said associate producer Sylvain Trottier in a blog post announcing the patch. "It's the fact that even when we were done with the project, even when we were finished with the certification and everything else, even when most of the engineers had started to work on other projects--like we always do at Ubisoft--some of my engineers continued to work on Black Flag and they even developed a brand-new anti-aliasing technique."

I've been on the defensive side of this debate so far which is strange because graphics are a critical aspect of a game for me. But you simply can't tell the difference between 900p and 1080p and it's ridiculous how much people are complaining about it. The resolution drama is so arbitrary.


I can tell Battlefield 4 is a lower res on PS4 than most other games I own as well.  The degree to which the difference has an impact on quality is debatable, but I can certainly notice it is there.
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« Reply #3490 on: October 08, 2014, 09:10:50 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 08, 2014, 09:05:07 PM

Quote from: Ridah on October 08, 2014, 08:58:35 PM

I've been on the defensive side of this debate so far which is strange because graphics are a critical aspect of a game for me. But you simply can't tell the difference between 900p and 1080p and it's ridiculous how much people are complaining about it. The resolution drama is so arbitrary.

I respect your opinion, but this is simply wrong. The idea that people can't tell the various near-HD resolutions apart from actual HD resolutions comes from a chart that has been widely distributed in discussions like these, but that chart is factually wrong. People with normal eyesight can see individual pixels, even at 1080p resolution, from a surprisingly long range.

That chart was also based on film, which is effectively a form of downsampling.  Games are rendering at resolution which is where res has a greater impact. 
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« Reply #3491 on: October 08, 2014, 09:29:52 PM »

I care not about the console war, or whatever, but I have lost a bit of faith in Ubi Soft for this debacle.

Debacle,  that is exactly what this is.  An avoidable, unnecessary debacle.

Will it make me not by AC?  No , I'm kinda tired of AC regardless of the resolution.
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« Reply #3492 on: October 09, 2014, 03:25:46 PM »

I admit I've hardly played any games on the Xbox, I'm going purely off my experience playing AC4: Black Flag pre- and post-1080p patch. I'm getting the White Xbox later this month, perhaps I'll buy both versions of a game where this is a prevalent issue so I can understand it better.
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« Reply #3493 on: October 09, 2014, 07:22:33 PM »

Looking forward to seeing you on live, my friend. smile
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« Reply #3494 on: October 17, 2014, 09:07:37 PM »

Whoo hoo, with the latest xbone system update we now have a video player that can stream from DLNA servers. It also sees the HDHomeRun Primes I have on my network and can stream TV from any of the non copy once channels which with Time Warner are few (FU TW...).
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« Reply #3495 on: October 17, 2014, 11:25:04 PM »

I really like the updates to the Snap feature, makes it much more usable.  I can't tell you how many times I've nearly thrown my controller in frustration at that thing before.

And the changes to the dashboard almost feel like they're getting closer to what the 360 used to be, which is not a bad thing in my mind.  Nice being able to see friends and stuff without going into a separate app that takes time to load.
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« Reply #3496 on: October 19, 2014, 04:01:47 PM »

This year's edition of the NHL app is decently usable, but seems to have a bug where closed captioning is on by default every. single. time. I join a stream. Super annoying.
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« Reply #3497 on: October 19, 2014, 05:39:39 PM »

Quote from: Clanwolfer on October 19, 2014, 04:01:47 PM

This year's edition of the NHL app is decently usable, but seems to have a bug where closed captioning is on by default every. single. time. I join a stream. Super annoying.

Really?  I've never had that issue with the NHL app.
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« Reply #3498 on: October 21, 2014, 07:21:10 PM »

I WANT ONE NOW!!!

This is by and far the best thing ever for anyone considering dropping cable. The fact that it can stream to other devices WHILE PLAYING GAMES, and adds buffering for PVR-lite experiences for TV is phenomenal - and you can change quality settings too if that's your thing.

I get two channels right now, and I hate watching them as I have commercials. Now the only thing I'd like to see them expand is allowing a full PVR where I can get the XBONE to record shows I want to watch, so I'm not ruled by broadcast times on free-to-air channels.
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« Reply #3499 on: October 21, 2014, 08:05:46 PM »

not available in the USA
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« Reply #3500 on: October 22, 2014, 11:49:37 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on October 21, 2014, 08:05:46 PM

not available in the USA

As I said, I want one. I did not specify what markets it`s in. The announcement of it being launched exclusively in five European markets (only ) was released at the beginning of August.

It`s just that it`s an awesome add-on to the console, and I`m hoping to hear it will be coming to North America.


I may even import it, but the problem is the programming on One Guide would be pointless.
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« Reply #3501 on: October 23, 2014, 04:07:11 AM »

Apparently Voice Commander is now available for free download on XB1.  It's an RTS and top-down shooter combo for up to 8 controllers and voice control.   saywhat

This is a product of Microsoft Garage
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