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Author Topic: [Wii] Nintendo holding back consoles?  (Read 3241 times)
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Calvin
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« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2007, 12:08:44 AM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on March 28, 2007, 12:05:11 AM


Thank you for this most polite way of informing Calvin that he is being an ass.  My hat is off to you, sir!

Oh, and the day I take a Gamestop executive's opinion as fact, just fucking shoot me.

Totally don't understand why I am being an ass when I frame a post in disagreement in the same tone that comes from different people in different threads every single day if there is a discussion and a disagreement. If I am not allowed to attempt to be sardonic, witty, caustic, or funny, doesn't that immediately disqualify gellar or random XYZ person too? And CeeKay just because? I think that's silly.
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th'FOOL
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« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2007, 12:11:18 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 12:08:44 AM

Quote from: th'FOOL on March 28, 2007, 12:05:11 AM


Thank you for this most polite way of informing Calvin that he is being an ass.  My hat is off to you, sir!

Oh, and the day I take a Gamestop executive's opinion as fact, just fucking shoot me.

Totally don't understand why I am being an ass when I frame a post in disagreement in the same tone that comes from different people in different threads every single day if there is a discussion and a disagreement. If I am not allowed to attempt to be sardonic, witty, caustic, or funny, doesn't that immediately disqualify gellar or random XYZ person too? And CeeKay just because? I think that's silly.

Didn't say it disqualified you.  Oftentimes being sardonic, witty, caustic or funny requires one to be an ass.  I just happened to like the way Deadzone took you to task biggrin
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Calvin
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« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2007, 12:15:55 AM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on March 28, 2007, 12:11:18 AM

Quote from: Calvin on March 28, 2007, 12:08:44 AM

Quote from: th'FOOL on March 28, 2007, 12:05:11 AM


Thank you for this most polite way of informing Calvin that he is being an ass.  My hat is off to you, sir!

Oh, and the day I take a Gamestop executive's opinion as fact, just fucking shoot me.

Totally don't understand why I am being an ass when I frame a post in disagreement in the same tone that comes from different people in different threads every single day if there is a discussion and a disagreement. If I am not allowed to attempt to be sardonic, witty, caustic, or funny, doesn't that immediately disqualify gellar or random XYZ person too? And CeeKay just because? I think that's silly.

Didn't say it disqualified you.  Oftentimes being sardonic, witty, caustic or funny requires one to be an ass.  I just happened to like the way Deadzone took you to task biggrin

Fair enough sir! Misinterpreted your post but now understand, and give the thumbs up  thumbsup I do approve of being called out when appropriate  icon_wink
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2007, 01:07:36 AM »

I didn't bother to read half of your back-and-forth bickering posts, so pardon me if this was already mentioned. 

I don't really buy the idea that Nintendo is intentionally holding back system hardware, but they were why wouldn't they at least have the market full of the necessary peripherals like Wii-motes and Nunchucks? 
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deadzone
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« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2007, 01:16:20 AM »

Heh, this whole thing really is too funny!   icon_lol  Honestly, I am not even remotely bent out of shape about any of this.  smile  I'll be honest, that's a much sassier tone than it should have been considering that I am not really steamed or even remotely angry about your responses to me Calvin.  smile  I'm not sure why, but I guess I was being deliberately obtuse or combative with you.  The bottom line is that I don't really much care one way or the other, especially due to the fact that I finally got my Wii a couple of months back.  smile

Now, if I still didn't have a Wii... Well, I might be arguing just to take it out on someone out of frustration!  smile  So there you go.  smile  You more than likely are right about this whole thing - I know I don't have a clue personally about any of that stuff.  Your arguments make a lot more sense than any of my semi-coherent rantings based on absolutely no fact or knowledge about the subject, I mean let's be honest.   nod

So my apologies for stirring the pot and all that Calvin.  smile  You wanna like start a business up together or something now?  We can start small and expand to an eventual empire based on some sort of commodity or something that people would maybe need.  Hey, maybe we can use my idea about a cane with a built in GPS unit that has a adaptive speech technology built in!  I have one that I made even!  Maybe I should patent it first?  I dunno...  Just think, there's lot's more where that came from too.  smile

Man, can I just say than god for spell check?  I would look, well stupider, or something, without it.  smile
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wonderpug
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« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2007, 02:10:53 AM »

Time for me to ease up on the Puzzle Quest, I have this irresistible urge to line up your post's smileys for an extra turn.
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Tebunker
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« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2007, 02:11:07 AM »

Quote from: gellar on March 27, 2007, 08:21:45 PM

Quote from: deadzone on March 27, 2007, 08:08:57 PM

Because I don't see them gaining anything by holding back supplies.  What do they gain by holding back on supplies?

Let's see.  We've covered this, but I'll go over it again. 

If you're given the choice as a public company between overachieving this year's/quarter's sales goals or padding numbers for NEXT year's/quarter's sales goals, you choose option B - Particularly in a given Quarter where you already have an extreme amount of goodwill from the market. 

Nintendo is figuring right now that given their current state (very, very good with an 82.5% stock price rise from last year and near it's 52 week high), they aren't going to see that much of an increase in their stock price by reporting sales of 115% of goal vs 100% (or whatever that spread might be).  Instead, they'd rather pad their figures for next quarter, where things are far more uncertain from a financial perspective.  They may be banking that those extra sales mean more for them tomorrow than they do today.  It's certainly a plausible scenario, and would be a very smart move for them if it were the case.

gellar
this works more at the end of a FY than at the end of a quarter. I think all public companies want to do as much sales as they can in each FY, but as you said, Nintendo is in a unique position where that much more sales wouldn't help the stock price. So in this instance it would make more sense. It also depends on a lot of other variables too, but basically if you're a company in Nintendo's position you should probably hold some stuff back to start the next fiscal year right. Quart versus Quarter I think is different, because any company would love to hit their FY goals in the first quarter and then just be able to pile on more sales.
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« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2007, 04:13:34 AM »

Quote from: wonderpug on March 28, 2007, 02:10:53 AM

Time for me to ease up on the Puzzle Quest, I have this irresistible urge to line up your post's smileys for an extra turn.

LOL...too funny.
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deadzone
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« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2007, 07:40:31 PM »

Just a follow up to this.  From the horses mouth - they ARE NOT holding back consoles.  Essentially, they can't produce enough to keep up with demand. 

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5050&Itemid=2

Of course they could be lying right?  smile
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« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2007, 08:52:53 PM »

Quote from: deadzone on March 29, 2007, 07:40:31 PM

Just a follow up to this.  From the horses mouth - they ARE NOT holding back consoles.  Essentially, they can't produce enough to keep up with demand. 

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5050&Itemid=2

Of course they could be lying right?  smile

I love this comment:

Quote
“GameStop’s an important customer,” Harrison said. “Every retailer would want to have more [Wiis]. I think [DeMatteo’s comments] may have been GameStop’s way of trying to request more.”
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Doopri
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« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2007, 11:15:52 PM »

just to fan the fire - while this is what nintendo is telling the oh so educated customers, heres the down and dirty financial side investors knew about over a year ago - keep in mind how many wiis have been sold year to date, and how well companies (and financiers) are required to understand their production capabilities and inventory levels:

Quote
Nintendo is ramping up production of its next-generation Wii game-console, indicating that the firm should meet its expected shipment dates for this year.
The Japanese firm built 2 million of its Wii consoles in the third quarter according to UBS's semiconductor analyst Alex Guana. In a note to clients on Thursday, Guana also stated that 7 to 9 million are expected to be built in the fourth quarter of 2006, putting the firm ahead of its 6 million unit production goal.

The Wii will feature motion sensing controllers and online game play capabilities.

The new console goes on sale in November in the U.S. It hits Japanese stores in early December.



hmm 6 million was a pretty good "guess" no? arent those the figures that came out last week?  this article was from the international business times, was from october and reiterates nintendos initial publically announced target of 6 million wiis by end of fy 06.  and they were on a production schedule to have 9 to 11 million wiis built.  they knew their target, they knew their production.  im guessing they hit their target for both.

(yes i was bored this evening)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 11:26:17 PM by Doopri » Logged
Misguided
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« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2007, 12:28:01 AM »

Quote from: deadzone on March 27, 2007, 08:50:09 PM

The most absurd thing about this is that the "Holding Back Supply" myth is being perpetrated again except it's by Gamestop/EB this time.  Any other retailers taking this position?  I don't see any.  Gamestop/EB screwed themselves on Wii supply by force bundling them at such a high price, and even then, they couldn't keep them in stock.  Supply and Demand, except Demand far exceeded the ability to Supply in this case.   

This is not true.

There was no bundling of the Wii or the PS3 or the 360 in the United States. I don't know about Canada...it's possible that they tried it there on some basis, but I will not sit idly by while people continue to perpetrate such blatant generalizations.

Now, the dotcoms *did* do bundles on the Wii, but the brick and mortar stores absolutely did not.
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« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2007, 12:34:43 AM »

Seems to me like all they did was set the bar really high for themselves, not really anticipating the truly remarkable steady sales numbers.  They may have thought they had more than enough stock to sell and were caught off-guard when they sold the way they did. 

Honestly ask yourself.  Would you have taken the bet if someone would have said:  "I bet you a hundred dollars that by February 07 Nintendo will sell 6 million Wii's."  I know I would have, because no one would have foreseen this and would have just figured it as easy money.  smile
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deadzone
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« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2007, 12:47:14 AM »

Quote from: Misguided on March 30, 2007, 12:28:01 AM

Quote from: deadzone on March 27, 2007, 08:50:09 PM

The most absurd thing about this is that the "Holding Back Supply" myth is being perpetrated again except it's by Gamestop/EB this time.  Any other retailers taking this position?  I don't see any.  Gamestop/EB screwed themselves on Wii supply by force bundling them at such a high price, and even then, they couldn't keep them in stock.  Supply and Demand, except Demand far exceeded the ability to Supply in this case.   

This is not true.

There was no bundling of the Wii or the PS3 or the 360 in the United States. I don't know about Canada...it's possible that they tried it there on some basis, but I will not sit idly by while people continue to perpetrate such blatant generalizations.

Now, the dotcoms *did* do bundles on the Wii, but the brick and mortar stores absolutely did not.

Listen, here is my expanded point on this one.  They had a choice of how they sold them because they have both B & M's and websites to sell them through.  They chose to sell the majority of their stock on-line and they force-bundled the crap out of you.  You couldn't get a bundle for less than 450.  Same scenario for Wal-Mart except they are not whining.  Technically you are correct, but I think my point still stands. 
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« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2007, 12:01:07 PM »

Quote from: deadzone on March 30, 2007, 12:47:14 AM

Listen, here is my expanded point on this one.  They had a choice of how they sold them because they have both B & M's and websites to sell them through.  They chose to sell the majority of their stock on-line and they force-bundled the crap out of you.  You couldn't get a bundle for less than 450.  Same scenario for Wal-Mart except they are not whining.  Technically you are correct, but I think my point still stands. 

May I ask where the evidence for this is? You may or may not be right (I don't know), but haven't seen the numbers. Our stock has been fairly limited, but add that up across 4000+ stores and that's quite a few systems. I find it unlikely that your scenario is correct. The website and the B&M stores aren't the same entity. Related? Sure. But not the same.

Did any major online site NOT do bundles? I think most of them, if not all of them did. Some stores did bundles in retail stores, I think.
To equate the website with the retail shops is a fallacy, though. I think if a store manager had been caught bundling systems, they would have been canned. We received several memos/emails explicitly stating we didn't bundle systems.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 12:04:17 PM by Misguided » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2007, 05:48:16 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on March 30, 2007, 12:28:01 AM

Quote from: deadzone on March 27, 2007, 08:50:09 PM

The most absurd thing about this is that the "Holding Back Supply" myth is being perpetrated again except it's by Gamestop/EB this time.  Any other retailers taking this position?  I don't see any.  Gamestop/EB screwed themselves on Wii supply by force bundling them at such a high price, and even then, they couldn't keep them in stock.  Supply and Demand, except Demand far exceeded the ability to Supply in this case.   

This is not true.

There was no bundling of the Wii or the PS3 or the 360 in the United States. I don't know about Canada...it's possible that they tried it there on some basis, but I will not sit idly by while people continue to perpetrate such blatant generalizations.

Now, the dotcoms *did* do bundles on the Wii, but the brick and mortar stores absolutely did not.

My understanding is that only the initial preordered Wii's were sold in bundles by EB Canada. All other sales since have been sold as separate units, accessories, games etc.

The intention to sell in bundles is possibly the reason EB Canada got less launch day Wiis from Nintendo.
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« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2007, 10:04:19 PM »

Quote from: deadzone on March 27, 2007, 08:54:21 PM


Honestly - what has Nintendo done that does not go against traditional thinking with the next generation of consoles?  Less focus on HD, entirely new controller scheme, wide-appeal to a nontraditional gaming audience, low price, etc...  Why would this not be true for their sales decisions as well?

I mean to be honest, based on how they have gone about things with this console in general, do you really think they are even worried about sales quarters and stuff?  If this were true, then why not compete directly with the big boys and include full HD support, higher specs, On-Line play, etc..?  Based on what I have seen they have chosen to innovate in every sense of the word.  I think that their sales reflect this and I think that they will continue to reflect this for a while UNTIL they can catch up with demand for their console.  Sales figures be damned, let's do something different and see what happens.   


When I first read your original response I had a very similar reaction as Gellar. I'm not speaking for Gellar, but let me give you my take on this.

Nintendo tried to go head to head with Sony and Microsoft with the cube and got killed. Sure they could have made another HD, standard controller, targeting the traditional gaming  audience, with a price slightly lower than the other two; and stay in last place. Instead of directly competeing they went where the other two were not. Low priced and innovative. This is what many good companies do. They differentiate their product to maximize total PROFIT and theirby stock value. Showing long periods of strong product sales is one way to maximize PROFIT and stock value. It's much better to show many good years one after another than to have one great year followed by weaker years after that. Another reason could be increased profitability, as the Wii becomes more mature it becomes cheaper to make. Why leave make only $50.00 dollars profit when you can make $75.00 or $100.00? There is the danger that demand may weaken but that isn't likely here. Other reasons to wait are tax considerations and Gellar is right stock price is huge and reacts strongly positive to strong sales over long periods (it's not a fad) and strongly negative to sales results that drop rapidly from one year to the next (fad).

Hopefully, this makes sense

docD
« Last Edit: March 30, 2007, 10:39:04 PM by DocD » Logged
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