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Author Topic: [SRPG FFT FANS ALERT!] Square Enix announced a Tactics Ogre remake for PSP  (Read 3134 times)
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Kevin Grey
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« on: July 21, 2010, 01:42:03 AM »

Don't have a lot of details but the latest issue of Famitsu features a remake of  SNES/PS1 classic Tactics Ogre: Let US Cling Together (retitled Wheel of Fate for the PSP) by much of the original staff.  Any fan of SRPG and/or Final Fantasy Tactics in particular should be ecstatic- the original Final Fantasy Tactics is lifted pretty much directly from LUCT (Square hired a lot of the TO staff).  A lot of SRPG connoisseurs consider TO to be even better than FFT and perhaps the best SRPG of all time.  The guy behind the Ogre series is Yasumi Matsuno who is also the mastermind behind FFT, Vagrant Story, and FF12.  Despite leaving/being fired from Square during the making of FF12, he is evidently heavily involved in the new TO remake.

Personally, this is great news because while FFT is one of my favorite games ever, I've struggled to really get into Tactics Ogre because some of the mechanics can be tedious (specifically the need to run scrimmage battles in between main missions to level up your troops).  I'm hopeful the remake will streamline a lot of that stuff.

There is a pretty good chance we'll get this in the US since SE just registered the Tactics Ogre name in June. 
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 02:07:03 AM »

This is indeed fantastic news.  I remember trying Tactics Ogre years ago, but never really sticking with it.  Have always wanted to give it another try...hopefully this one gets the same awesome facelift that FFT: WOTL received.
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 02:15:19 AM »

just saw this on neogaf, & it made me smile ( smile - see?). very cool news. & one more bit of evidence that the psp has turned out to be the srpg console of this generation...


edit: hehheh - i just 'obtained' the original, & spent most of an hour with it, &, yes, let's indeed hope the 'scrimmage' part can be either completely overhauled or flat-out removed. i'm a pretty patient gamer, but that's just a mind-bogglingly painful procedure smile ...

but everything else felt great!...
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2010, 03:33:37 AM »

That was quick - SE has announced it for US release. No release date yet. This just leapt near the top of my most anticipated games list.
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2010, 04:38:42 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 22, 2010, 03:33:37 AM

That was quick - SE has announced it for US release. No release date yet. This just leapt near the top of my most anticipated games list.

Fantasic, FANTASTIC news. Now if SE would release FFT:WoTL for PSP Go  smile
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2010, 04:33:44 PM »

Tactics Ogre, the original (ported onto the PS1) is personally my favorite of the SRPG's we've seen brought over to North America. The only complaint I had about it was the awful, awful need to "train" your troops between battles via scrimmage. Horrible game design choice. All I would want them to do is fix that part of the game and keep everything else the same. biggrin
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2010, 11:51:30 PM »

This makes me very happy and means I won't have to drop around $100 to get a legit copy from Ebay.
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2010, 02:28:19 PM »

Even better news- Alexander O. Smith's localization company is confirmed to be doing the game.  Smith is the guy who did the utterly fantastic localizations for Vagrant Story and FF12 and his company did the localization for FFT:WotL. 
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2010, 04:13:12 PM »

Wow, that really is awesome news!
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2010, 04:38:38 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on July 25, 2010, 02:28:19 PM

Even better news- Alexander O. Smith's localization company is confirmed to be doing the game.  Smith is the guy who did the utterly fantastic localizations for Vagrant Story and FF12 and his company did the localization for FFT:WotL. 

 eek, and  drool
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2011, 07:47:48 PM »

So, both Gamestop and Metacritic have this as a 2/15 release date.  I haven't heard if that's confirmed...anyone know if it's still the case?  Front Mission 3 left a bad taste, so I need a good SRPG pallet cleanser.  smile

Here's the absolutely fantastic trailer
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2011, 07:56:18 PM »

So does Tactics Ogre have any of the really cheap/hard spots like FFT? I got so fed up at one point in FFT I just never came back.
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 08:04:33 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on January 15, 2011, 07:47:48 PM

So, both Gamestop and Metacritic have this as a 2/15 release date.  I haven't heard if that's confirmed...anyone know if it's still the case?  Front Mission 3 left a bad taste, so I need a good SRPG pallet cleanser.  smile

Here's the absolutely fantastic trailer
Yep thats the date.
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 08:09:40 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on January 15, 2011, 08:04:33 PM

Quote from: Gratch on January 15, 2011, 07:47:48 PM

So, both Gamestop and Metacritic have this as a 2/15 release date.  I haven't heard if that's confirmed...anyone know if it's still the case?  Front Mission 3 left a bad taste, so I need a good SRPG pallet cleanser.  smile

Here's the absolutely fantastic trailer
Yep thats the date.


Cool.  This is probably my most anticipated game this year.

Shocking, I know.  smile
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2011, 12:39:39 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on January 15, 2011, 07:47:48 PM

So, both Gamestop and Metacritic have this as a 2/15 release date.  I haven't heard if that's confirmed...anyone know if it's still the case?  Front Mission 3 left a bad taste, so I need a good SRPG pallet cleanser.  smile

Here's the absolutely fantastic trailer

What was wrong with Front Mission 3?
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2011, 01:14:37 AM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on January 16, 2011, 12:39:39 AM

Quote from: Gratch on January 15, 2011, 07:47:48 PM

So, both Gamestop and Metacritic have this as a 2/15 release date.  I haven't heard if that's confirmed...anyone know if it's still the case?  Front Mission 3 left a bad taste, so I need a good SRPG pallet cleanser.  smile

Here's the absolutely fantastic trailer

What was wrong with Front Mission 3?

It just didn't click with me at all.  The combat felt clunky and too random, the characters and story were completely uninteresting, and even after about 4 hours, I couldn't figure out many of the gameplay systems (i.e. i.e. how leveling worked, how skills were obtained and/or activated, why I kept seeing medals during certain points in combat, etc.).  I probably could have figured it out if I had made a concerted effort, but the whole thing was just so bland that I didn't feel like giving it a ton of time.  It also hit in the middle of the Steam sale, so I got pretty distracted with other shinies.  smile

I may end up going back to it sometime during a lull, but it didn't make a great first impression.
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2011, 08:37:29 PM »

So are there any reviews of the Japanese version?  I just assume it has been out for awhile there.

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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 08:51:40 PM »

Couldn't track down any reviews, but did find this hands-on preview IGN did about a month ago.  Sounds amazing, and I love, love, love, love this bit:

Quote
However, if you do happen to make a massive blunder, the brand-spankin' new Tarot system - specifically the 'Chariot' tarot, keeps track of your last 50 moves. This allows you to return to any of those previous moves and effectively rewrite history. If you did something silly ten moves back and it drastically affected your outcome, for instance, you can now jump back and try again.

What I wouldn't have given for that feature in FF Tactics.  smile
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« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2011, 04:27:51 PM »

Here is the first review I have seen for the english version.

It is from IGN and they give it a 8.5 Great overall.


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« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2011, 05:15:53 PM »

Quote
To be certain, this kind of game takes an acquired taste to appreciate - and feel free to use this handy list to qualify your interest. Do you like prosaic, often meandering dialogue that really focuses on storytelling? Do you enjoy deep, methodical strategy with a lot of micro-management? Are you prepared to invest the time pre-battle in reading the voluminous backstory and supporting documents for the full experience?  This is not a game for the twitch-shooter generation. It's a different kind of beast; ancient and traditional and tragically lacking in sales bullet points, save for a wonderful pedigree and gameplay that really needs to be played with your full attention to be appreciated.

Wow, it's like they created this game specifically for me.  slywink
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2011, 05:34:44 PM »

Early reviews are extremely positive...next week is too damn far away.
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2011, 01:17:26 PM »

Some initial impressions after 3 hours:

1.  TO looks, sounds, and feels exactly like FF Tactics.  For those of us who adore that game, this is a very, very good thing.  However, there are enough subtleties in the game's systems to make TO it's own unique experience.  Again, this is a good thing.

2.  This game is really gorram hard, but I can't help but feel like it's extra hard because I'm doing something wrong.  Enemies of equivalent levels (i.e. 5-6) are doing 3X, 4X, sometimes 5X the damage that I am.  For example, an enemy archer was hitting my cleric for 45 damage last night, while my archer at the exact same level and with very similar stats was hitting their cleric for a maximum of 12.  Battles typically see my frantically running around trying to heal my team while slowly chipping away at the baddies, while the enemy can wipe even my toughest dudes off the map in 2 hits.  Maybe that's the way the game is designed, but I can't help but feel like I'm missing something vital.

3.  TO is definitely going to take more specific character customization than FFT ever did.  FFT allowed you to basically create a small team of uber-characters, while it looks like TO is going to require a larger team of very specialized characters.  There's also a very intimidating number of skills to learn.  Think I need to read up on some FAQ's so I don't end up gimping my team early.

4.  Guest characters are dumb as fucking rocks.  For example:  When an undead baddie gets defeated, it starts a 3-turn timer.  If you don't use the "Exorcise" ability before the timer is up, they come back to life.  My last battle had a cleric with an "Exorcise" ability as a guest.  I killed the two zombies (nearly dying myself in the process, as those suckers are strong), thinking that my guest would be smart enough to exorcise them while they're down.  Instead, he decided to run around casting worthless heal spells on characters who didn't really need them.  Needless to say, the zombies popped back up and wiped my party.  Gee thanks, dumbass cleric.

So first impressions are good, although very frustrating.  The gameplay is solid enough that I can stick with it until I learn all the complex systems, but it does feel very much like I'm doing something fundamentally wrong.
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2011, 03:29:27 PM »

Make sure you are selecting and equipping skills that match the equipment your character is using. Also pay close attention to terrain, it makes a huge difference in the effectiveness of your attacks.

FWIW the following battle with the necromancer its optional and can be done anytime in chapter one.

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« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2011, 02:18:52 AM »

Oh, wow!
   
I didn't know this was out. I will be picking it up on my way home tomorrow afternoon.
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« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2011, 02:33:35 PM »

A couple questions for anyone playing (or anyone who played the original):

1.  What level do enemies scale to?  Highest level character?  Main character? Party average?
2.  In battles with specific objectives (i.e. Kill X Boss), do you get any additional XP for killing the other characters?  Since XP is doled out in one big chunk at the end, I wasn't sure if there was any advantage to wiping out everyone on the map, or if I should be making a beeline for the objective.
3.  Any particular skills/abilities that are considered "must have"?  I'm a little frustrated with the skill system, as many of the descriptions are very vague.  There are skills that say they give an attack bonus, but give no indication of how much.  If it's 2%, that's a waste of a skill slot, but a 20% bonus would be a no-brainer.
4.  Can you get more than 3 skill slots?  There is the option to purchase one additional slot early on, but I have no idea if/when additional ones become available.

TIA
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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2011, 03:46:57 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on February 18, 2011, 02:33:35 PM

1.  What level do enemies scale to?  Highest level character?  Main character? Party average?

Story battles are at fixed levels for your first playthrough.  Random battles scale to either the highest character or party average (can't remember which).  After finishing the game if you use the World system to replay sections then the story battles will start to scale.  So, on a first playthrough, you should be able to grind out levels if needed to progress past story encounters.

Quote
2.  In battles with specific objectives (i.e. Kill X Boss), do you get any additional XP for killing the other characters?  Since XP is doled out in one big chunk at the end, I wasn't sure if there was any advantage to wiping out everyone on the map, or if I should be making a beeline for the objective.

XP is at a set level for completing the stage and is given out proportionally to the classes participating in that stage.  For example, if you have 3 knights participate in a battle and only one of the other classes, the knight class will get 3x the XP for completing the stage as the other classes.

Skill points are given out based on the actions that you actually took during the battle (ie hitting enemies, healing friends, etc).  So there is some advanatage to taking out more than the boss but not so much you should feel compelled.

Plus there is the Chaos Frame system- basically the Ogre series judges your morality.  If you make it a point to wipe out every enemy on a map even when you don't have to, it effects your alignment and your ending.  It will also effect the loyalty of the characters in your party based on their alignment.  So that's another reason you may not want to wipe out every enemy. 

Quote
3.  Any particular skills/abilities that are considered "must have"?  I'm a little frustrated with the skill system, as many of the descriptions are very vague.  There are skills that say they give an attack bonus, but give no indication of how much.  If it's 2%, that's a waste of a skill slot, but a 20% bonus would be a no-brainer.

It's still too early for me to say definitively (I just started Chapter 2) but I would recommend obtaining the skills for your chosen weapon type.  That starts to build up XP for that weapon skill and once you hit Level 2 in those skills you get access to super-powerful finishing moves.  That's also a reason you may want to choose a particular type of weapon and stick with it for a particular character. 

Get Heal for any classes that can get it (Valkyries, Knights).  Always nice to have a healer in a pinch.  Field Alchemy is a must if you want to use healing items above the first level. 

The bonus information is vague but part of that is because most of those skills level up with use so the bonus may start small but dramatically increase throughout the game. 


Quote
4.  Can you get more than 3 skill slots?  There is the option to purchase one additional slot early on, but I have no idea if/when additional ones become available.

I believe the max is 10 skill slots for each character.  Each skill slot costs progressively more skill points to purchase.   


Another important thing that I didn't realize at first- any item drops in a bag are automatically picked up at the end of a battle so don't feel too compelled to go out of your way to get them.  The exception is if an enemy character lands on that square and picks it up for themselves.

This doesn't apply to tarot cards though- those you must pick up before the end of the battle or you will lose them.

Also, the manual is surprisingly comprehensive and definitely worth a read. 
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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2011, 03:57:24 PM »

Thanks Kevin.  These three bits are very good to know.

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 18, 2011, 03:46:57 PM

Plus there is the Chaos Frame system- basically the Ogre series judges your morality.  If you make it a point to wipe out every enemy on a map even when you don't have to, it effects your alignment and your ending.  It will also effect the loyalty of the characters in your party based on their alignment.  So that's another reason you may not want to wipe out every enemy. 

Quote
It's still too early for me to say definitively (I just started Chapter 2) but I would recommend obtaining the skills for your chosen weapon type.  That starts to build up XP for that weapon skill and once you hit Level 2 in those skills you get access to super-powerful finishing moves.  That's also a reason you may want to choose a particular type of weapon and stick with it for a particular character. 

Quote
Another important thing that I didn't realize at first- any item drops in a bag are automatically picked up at the end of a battle so don't feel too compelled to go out of your way to get them.  The exception is if an enemy character lands on that square and picks it up for themselves.

Curse you for making me read a manual!  slywink
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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2011, 09:25:06 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on February 18, 2011, 03:57:24 PM

Curse you for making me read a manual!  slywink

Yeah, I was actually surprised by how thorough it is, especially in this day and age.  Strategy Guide got delayed a week so it helps in the interim.

Major WTF moment for me last night:  selecting what I would term the moral choice at the end of Chapter 1 put me on the Chaos Route.  I had assumed it would put me on the Law route. 
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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2011, 06:14:54 PM »

It's been somewhat of a comedy of errors to get my copy:
   
- Last night, I stopped by Fry's on the way home (they have it $5 off), but they didn't have their copies in yet.
   
- This morning, back to Fry's. They had it in stock, but it wasn't on the shelves. I finally got a nice manager to go root through shipping and he finally brought a copy back for me. (Yay!)
     
- Got home, only to find that my PSP needs an update, but the battery power was too low to perform the update. frown
   
So now, I'm waiting (not so) patiently for the battery to charge enough to run the update to allow me to play.
   
At least that gives me some time to read through the manual (something I don't normally do, but will based on Kevin's posts).
   
Can't wait to fire it up.
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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2011, 06:34:00 PM »

I'm a little fuzzy on how the "Rank Levels" work on Skills.  I've been using the same core group of characters for the first 6 hours now, and while a couple of them have hit Rank 2 (and accessed some finishing moves), others - who have had a weapon Skill equipped and are using the corresponding weapon constantly - are only about 1/4 of the way through level 1.  Anyone know what actions factor into raising the Rank of specific skills?

BTW, I've really warmed up to this game, and am enjoying it as much - if not more - than I did FF Tactics at this point.  Considering FFT is one of my top 3 favorite games of all time, that's saying a lot.
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2011, 07:08:00 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on February 19, 2011, 06:34:00 PM

I'm a little fuzzy on how the "Rank Levels" work on Skills.  I've been using the same core group of characters for the first 6 hours now, and while a couple of them have hit Rank 2 (and accessed some finishing moves), others - who have had a weapon Skill equipped and are using the corresponding weapon constantly - are only about 1/4 of the way through level 1.  Anyone know what actions factor into raising the Rank of specific skills?

Just using them in battle should do it.  But it's definitely a slow process.  I'm about 20 hours in (a lot of that time admittedly spent in menus tweaking my characters) and I haven't yet ranked up anybody other than the story characters who sometimes come at Rank 2 already. 
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2011, 08:58:26 PM »

Trying to decide whether to specialize one Wizard in multiple elements, or bring on a new one and get them uber-strong in an individual element.  Thoughts?
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« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2011, 11:29:09 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on February 19, 2011, 08:58:26 PM

Trying to decide whether to specialize one Wizard in multiple elements, or bring on a new one and get them uber-strong in an individual element.  Thoughts?

I think one (if not two) should do it.  There is a lot of overlap between classes and the game doesn't seem to use an elemental strength/weakness system so I'm not sure there is much call to have more than a couple schools available at once.

There have definitely been battles where multiple wizards would have been handy though.  Especially battles with a lot of non-human enemies- magic seems a lot more effective on them than physical attacks. 
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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2011, 03:18:29 AM »

I'm at about the same 3 hour point that Gratch was at when he posted his first impressions. I am really happy with the game. I can already see its depth and am looking forward to many long hours of enjoyment. So far, it is filling me with the same warm and fuzzies of FFT, FFTA, Jeanne D'Arc, and the various Fire Emblems.
   
However, I just got to this battle:
 

Quote from: Gratch on February 17, 2011, 01:17:26 PM

4.  Guest characters are dumb as fucking rocks.  For example:  When an undead baddie gets defeated, it starts a 3-turn timer.  If you don't use the "Exorcise" ability before the timer is up, they come back to life.  My last battle had a cleric with an "Exorcise" ability as a guest.  I killed the two zombies (nearly dying myself in the process, as those suckers are strong), thinking that my guest would be smart enough to exorcise them while they're down.  Instead, he decided to run around casting worthless heal spells on characters who didn't really need them.  Needless to say, the zombies popped back up and wiped my party.  Gee thanks, dumbass cleric.
   
The silly guest cleric is talking about the "Exorcise" ability during the game intro sequence, then he just will not use it during the actual battle. I don't know why they didn't program him to exorcise-only. I have healing. These little things are definitely frustrating. Guess I'll just have to try to bee-line the target mob, but it sure does jerk you out of the immersion.
   
Still and all, a very positive first few hours with this game!  thumbsup
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« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2011, 01:40:41 AM »

If anyone's looking for another game along these lines, I just finished up the first Disgaea game on the PSP (Afternoon of Darkness) and I loved it. Definitely will be picking up the second somewhere.
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« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2011, 02:44:05 PM »

Quote from: Azhag on February 21, 2011, 01:40:41 AM

If anyone's looking for another game along these lines, I just finished up the first Disgaea game on the PSP (Afternoon of Darkness) and I loved it. Definitely will be picking up the second somewhere.
   
I love the Disgaea series. I played a ton of the first one on the PS2, a lot of the second one, and a bit of the third one (may have to revisit that one). I will have to look into a PSP copy since my PS2 is touch-and-go these days and my PS3 is not a BC one.
     
As for Tactics Ogre, I'm enjoying it more and more. I'm starting to get a feel for the classes and the skills (albeit I am still very early on).
   
One question I have is about selling. Is it okay to sell off the Oberyths and excess gear and items? I looked through the manual and didn't see any references to crafting/breaking down/enhancing items, etc., so I suppose it's safe to sell off excess bucklers and the like. Also, the Oberyths say that they're coin of the land and are worth different amounts of goth, so it seems their purpose is to sell off, but I wanted to double check that I wouldn't need them later to buy special items or somesuch.
     
Great game so far!
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« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2011, 03:21:29 PM »

Quote from: Qantaga on February 21, 2011, 02:44:05 PM

One question I have is about selling. Is it okay to sell off the Oberyths and excess gear and items? I looked through the manual and didn't see any references to crafting/breaking down/enhancing items, etc., so I suppose it's safe to sell off excess bucklers and the like. Also, the Oberyths say that they're coin of the land and are worth different amounts of goth, so it seems their purpose is to sell off, but I wanted to double check that I wouldn't need them later to buy special items or somesuch.

Yep, I've been selling both the Oberyths and all my excess equipment.  Shops don't update with new inventory very often, though.

12 hours in, just started Chapter 2, most of my party in the level 10-12 range.  Still absolutely loving it, but do have a couple nits to pick that I think will ultimately keep TO from overtaking FFT as the best SRPG ever:

-  I hate making new classes start at level 1, as they are basically worthless for 2-3 (or more) battles.  You literally have to stick them in a corner with a bunch of healing potions and hope they don't die, while you try to fight off the rest of the baddies short a man.  I'm not a fan of that system at all...probably my least favorite thing about the game at this point.  Makes switching classes a huge gamble, doubly so because...

-  ...the game provides virtually zero information about the strengths/weaknesses of a new class.  You basically have to use your class mark, cross your fingers, and hope that you like the result.  I switched one character from a Warrior to a Berzerker, only to find that he does significantly less damage with the same weapons and his unique skills are lame.  Had I been able to see that up front, I could have made a better choice.  The lack of information on specific skills is also annoying, as you really have no idea how much bonus you're going to get when you purchase it (i.e. this skill grants a bonus to Melee Attack...but how much?).

-  The ability to switch classes seems entirely random at this point, based on whether or not you get a specific "class mark" as a post-battle drop.  Only being able to switch classes when you're lucky enough to get a particular item takes much of the strategy out of developing a character.  Side question on this:  Are specific classes prerequisites to others?  I.E.  Am I required to create a Rogue character before there's a possibility for a Ninja class mark to drop?

Other than these gripes, I completely adore this game.  The strategic battles are a blast, micromanaging skills and abilities is right up my alley, and the look and feel is fantastic.  If the guide sheds a little info on the classes, I'll be a happy camper.
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« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2011, 04:20:06 PM »

Quote from: Qantaga on February 21, 2011, 02:44:05 PM

One question I have is about selling. Is it okay to sell off the Oberyths and excess gear and items? I looked through the manual and didn't see any references to crafting/breaking down/enhancing items, etc., so I suppose it's safe to sell off excess bucklers and the like. Also, the Oberyths say that they're coin of the land and are worth different amounts of goth, so it seems their purpose is to sell off, but I wanted to double check that I wouldn't need them later to buy special items or somesuch.
     

There *is* a crafting system (it doesn't open up until Chapter 2 and it's a pain in the ass from a UI standpoint) but it's still largely safe to sell all of your excess equipment.  The exception is that I will often craft an enhanced version of an "outdated" piece of equipment for characters who are lagging in levels.  But I usually just handle that by buying all new equipment anyway for the purpose. 

Quote from: Gratch on February 21, 2011, 03:21:29 PM

-  I hate making new classes start at level 1, as they are basically worthless for 2-3 (or more) battles.  You literally have to stick them in a corner with a bunch of healing potions and hope they don't die, while you try to fight off the rest of the baddies short a man.  I'm not a fan of that system at all...probably my least favorite thing about the game at this point.  Makes switching classes a huge gamble, doubly so because...

-  ...the game provides virtually zero information about the strengths/weaknesses of a new class.  You basically have to use your class mark, cross your fingers, and hope that you like the result.  I switched one character from a Warrior to a Berzerker, only to find that he does significantly less damage with the same weapons and his unique skills are lame.  Had I been able to see that up front, I could have made a better choice.  The lack of information on specific skills is also annoying, as you really have no idea how much bonus you're going to get when you purchase it (i.e. this skill grants a bonus to Melee Attack...but how much?).

Yeah, agreed about these being annoyances.  It wouldn't be so bad if random battles didn't scale to your characters *and* also have a dramatically lowered unit cap, making it dangerous to bring even one under leveled character in them.  As a result I typically only use story battles to level classes.  I would rather do it the other way around. 

You *can* get a better idea of a class strength and weaknesses but it's kind of obtuse.  On the Unit List screen hit triangle to go to Class List and then select the class and then the condition.  At that point you can see the base stats for that class's current levels without any character stat modifiers or equipment.  There is also an overall attack and defense rating.  That should give you a good idea of what they bring to the table.  A knight may have an attack of 2 and a defense of 5, making clear it's ideal for defense but not offence, while a Warrior has it the other way around, etc. 

Or, if you feel like a character that needs to have his strength boosted, find a class where the base STR is a lot higher than the rest of the stats and class change them to that for a while so they will get STR bonuses when they level.

But, yeah, I'm really anxious for the strat guide.

However, it's important to point out that, as long as you have plenty of marks, there is very minimal risk to class changes since you can reset it very easily or even just class change for a single battle.  As an example, I was working on getting Denam leveled up as a Ninja and he was doing okay at Level 9 while the rest of my squad was Level 12.  But I had to do a 1v1 battle and he couldn't make it as a ninja at that point so I changed him to a Level 12 knight just for that battle. 

Re: special skills, generally they all seem excellent.  I haven't found any stat boosting skills that weren't worth their SP cost. 
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« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2011, 04:53:28 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 21, 2011, 04:20:06 PM

However, it's important to point out that, as long as you have plenty of marks, there is very minimal risk to class changes since you can reset it very easily or even just class change for a single battle.  As an example, I was working on getting Denam leveled up as a Ninja and he was doing okay at Level 9 while the rest of my squad was Level 12.  But I had to do a 1v1 battle and he couldn't make it as a ninja at that point so I changed him to a Level 12 knight just for that battle.  

Out of curiosity, when did you get your Ninja mark?  I've heard that's the best melee class, but have no idea if it's something I'm just going to "luck" into, or if I need to hit some sort of pre-requisites to access it.

One additional continuing gripe:  the absolutely horrific "guest" AI.  You can basically assume two things when there's a guest involved:

a) You'll be constantly babysitting them as they charge headlong into battle, odds be damned.  Typically at the expense of your own party members.
b) They will be completely worthless in using their skills.  Last night, I had my guest Priest (who has been with the party since the first battle...why is she not a PC by now?) standing right next to a warrior who was at about 50% health.  Instead of healing the Warrior, she turned around and did a melee attack on the monster next to her, doing a whopping 1 damage.   Roll Eyes

In case anyone thinks I'm being overly negative about TO, I should emphasize that these gripes are all very minor warts on what is a wholly beautiful game.  Having played nearly every SRPG in existence, I tend to be very picky when it comes to this particular genre.  smile
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 05:00:36 PM by Gratch » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2011, 04:59:28 PM »

I believe the quickest way to get most marks is by defeating members of that class.  So if you fight Ninjas then you are resonably likely to get their mark.  So far I haven't seen any classes that have pre-reqs but maybe that will change later (I'm a bit into Chapter 3).

And, man, some of the decisions you have to make in the story are really hard.  Twice in Chapter 2 I made decisions that I second guessed and then reloaded a save to select the other choice. 
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