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Author Topic: [Review] Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII  (Read 711 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« on: February 11, 2014, 02:56:34 PM »

I've got a video look and a full review for you this morning:

http://www.gamingtrend.com/reviews/lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii-lightning-may-cry/

I tried to avoid plot spoilers at all costs, but this is an odd one.  It works on many levels and just falls flat on others.  The end result is something decent, but what has happened to this franchise?  FF used to be the reason I'd take 2-3 days off on release days...
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2014, 04:08:54 PM »

I liked FF13,but only if i pretended it wasn't a FF game,i did plan on playing XIII-2 before part 3 but i really don't like the sound of the time thing

for FF overall i think its the move to action RPG/Third Person that has made the series lose its way somewhat(and make it no different from the others out there already),and from what i have seen from FF15 it looks pretty but doesn't look like anything is going to change

I would still like SE to do brand new XBLA/PSN final fantasy game in the style of the good old days...although i suppose people would rather see it on the handhelds

Thanks for the review Ron,i did skip the spoiler paragraph so thanks for the warnings


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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2014, 04:34:39 PM »

I'm very stoked for this one.  I am the rare person that actually really liked FFXIII and FFXIII-2 and I also enjoyed the demo for LR.  I like the switching between jobs mechanic a whole bunch and like this new combat system I played in the demo.  I knew this one wouldn't review very well and lots of people talk about how the franchise has declined, but I think the deal is that games as a medium has expanded so much and lots of people have moved past JRPGs.  Also, people hold onto the old games and how they worked and so when they try something new, it kind of upsets people.  I was okay with them taking away the exploration of typical FF games in XIII, though they did give you some more freedom about 40 hours into the game.  For me, I just like the general world of a FF game and am okay with them experimenting.  I like this 13 days until the end of the world mechanic they're putting into this one.
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2014, 04:38:28 PM »

Quote
Lightning never levels up, and she canít heal.

wow.  when did Peter Molyneuax's strange ideas of RPG get mainstream? 
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 06:20:27 PM »

So Ron, without giving anything away, were you ultimately able to beat those sadistically hard boss battles? It's one thing if those fights are hard, but if they at least are beatable in a mildly realistic way then I guess it's tolerable.
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2014, 08:35:45 PM »

Quote from: Jimmy the Fish on February 11, 2014, 06:20:27 PM

So Ron, without giving anything away, were you ultimately able to beat those sadistically hard boss battles? It's one thing if those fights are hard, but if they at least are beatable in a mildly realistic way then I guess it's tolerable.

I was, but man...they always felt totally unfair.  I have 2000HP versus their 400,000HP?  And I can only heal with my 6 potions, but he has a skill that allows him to get all of his HP back once?  0_0   You really feel like the cards are stacked against you, and those fights take upwards of 15-20 minutes each.   It feels a little like a combination of luck, trial and error, and some laser-precision with blocking, and even then even the most minor of slips can kill you.   One boss had an attack that did just shy of 2k worth of damage if you missed the block.  No way to beat him when you have 1400HP (the staying in one area thing I mentioned), but if you do a bunch of side quest grinding and get up to 2k HP you can live through it, once.  smile     It's just odd to go from "this is kinda challenging" in a good way to "WTF?  How was I supposed to prepare for this?!" kind of moments. 
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2014, 08:45:44 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on February 11, 2014, 04:34:39 PM

I'm very stoked for this one.  I am the rare person that actually really liked FFXIII and FFXIII-2 and I also enjoyed the demo for LR.  I like the switching between jobs mechanic a whole bunch and like this new combat system I played in the demo.  I knew this one wouldn't review very well and lots of people talk about how the franchise has declined, but I think the deal is that games as a medium has expanded so much and lots of people have moved past JRPGs.  Also, people hold onto the old games and how they worked and so when they try something new, it kind of upsets people.  I was okay with them taking away the exploration of typical FF games in XIII, though they did give you some more freedom about 40 hours into the game.  For me, I just like the general world of a FF game and am okay with them experimenting.  I like this 13 days until the end of the world mechanic they're putting into this one.

The end of the world stuff I liked, the damned Franklin Covey simulator of what gates are open, what vendors are present, etc. got old very fast.  I like the experimentation, but there is a point where a gameplay mechanic that is well meaning can become irritating. 
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2014, 09:20:07 PM »

Gametrailers review. Not very positive.

"The story is laughable, even painful to sit through.  The 13 games were convoluted before but Lightning Returns adds another thinck layer of incomprehensible nonsense.  The game feels less like a fitting conclusion and more like the runt of the litter."
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2014, 09:20:56 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 11, 2014, 08:35:45 PM

Quote from: Jimmy the Fish on February 11, 2014, 06:20:27 PM

So Ron, without giving anything away, were you ultimately able to beat those sadistically hard boss battles? It's one thing if those fights are hard, but if they at least are beatable in a mildly realistic way then I guess it's tolerable.

I was, but man...they always felt totally unfair.  I have 2000HP versus their 400,000HP?  And I can only heal with my 6 potions, but he has a skill that allows him to get all of his HP back once?  0_0   You really feel like the cards are stacked against you, and those fights take upwards of 15-20 minutes each.   It feels a little like a combination of luck, trial and error, and some laser-precision with blocking, and even then even the most minor of slips can kill you.   One boss had an attack that did just shy of 2k worth of damage if you missed the block.  No way to beat him when you have 1400HP (the staying in one area thing I mentioned), but if you do a bunch of side quest grinding and get up to 2k HP you can live through it, once.  smile     It's just odd to go from "this is kinda challenging" in a good way to "WTF?  How was I supposed to prepare for this?!" kind of moments.  

Sheesh, the Final Fantasy series really has jumped the shark. I just picked up the game but I have a feeling it's going to be one of those experiences where it stops being fun and becomes just a chore to finish for the sake of finishing it.
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2014, 10:26:28 PM »

Did not like FF13 at all, never touched 13-2, and have no intention on getting 13-3.

It seems that Squenix has completely forgotten what made Final Fantasy games good.

Either that or the entire team went into making Bravely Default (which is just fantastic).
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2014, 11:10:29 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 11, 2014, 08:45:44 PM

Quote from: The Grue on February 11, 2014, 04:34:39 PM

I'm very stoked for this one.  I am the rare person that actually really liked FFXIII and FFXIII-2 and I also enjoyed the demo for LR.  I like the switching between jobs mechanic a whole bunch and like this new combat system I played in the demo.  I knew this one wouldn't review very well and lots of people talk about how the franchise has declined, but I think the deal is that games as a medium has expanded so much and lots of people have moved past JRPGs.  Also, people hold onto the old games and how they worked and so when they try something new, it kind of upsets people.  I was okay with them taking away the exploration of typical FF games in XIII, though they did give you some more freedom about 40 hours into the game.  For me, I just like the general world of a FF game and am okay with them experimenting.  I like this 13 days until the end of the world mechanic they're putting into this one.

The end of the world stuff I liked, the damned Franklin Covey simulator of what gates are open, what vendors are present, etc. got old very fast.  I like the experimentation, but there is a point where a gameplay mechanic that is well meaning can become irritating. 

FranklinCovey simulator?  As an employee of FranklinCovey, I'm officially intrigued.   smile
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2014, 08:46:24 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on February 11, 2014, 10:26:28 PM


Either that or the entire team went into making Bravely Default (which is just fantastic).

Yeah i am tempted to buy a 3DS just for that game
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2014, 01:08:18 PM »

I'm honestly kind of fascinated by this whole thing.  Final Fantasy XIII was a sharply divisive game, with a story that required extensive Codex research to understand and game play that famously took 40-hours to get going.  But for whatever reason, this is the Final Fantasy universe that Square Enix decided was worth half a decade revisiting.

This one seems bizarre to the point where even describing the core game concepts make you sound like a crazy person.  Game Informer's Joe Juba supplemented his review with a separate critique of the strategy guide (he practically declares it essential), plus a third article with his own personal tips for success.  One example:

Quote from: Joe Juba
Fail Immediately

Eventually, you want to win. However, when you first start a new game, you should strongly consider losing by running out the timer, then starting up a new game+ right away. Itís easy to do by sleeping your days away at an inn, and has some surprising benefits.


He does explain what those benefits are, but they might be considered spoilers so I'll leave them out.  Still, has there ever been another game where the best opening move was immediate suicide? wasted

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2014, 05:24:20 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on February 12, 2014, 01:08:18 PM

I'm honestly kind of fascinated by this whole thing.  Final Fantasy XIII was a sharply divisive game, with a story that required extensive Codex research to understand and game play that famously took 40-hours to get going.  But for whatever reason, this is the Final Fantasy universe that Square Enix decided was worth half a decade revisiting.

This one seems bizarre to the point where even describing the core game concepts make you sound like a crazy person.  Game Informer's Joe Juba supplemented his review with a separate critique of the strategy guide (he practically declares it essential), plus a third article with his own personal tips for success.  One example:

Quote from: Joe Juba
Fail Immediately

Eventually, you want to win. However, when you first start a new game, you should strongly consider losing by running out the timer, then starting up a new game+ right away. Itís easy to do by sleeping your days away at an inn, and has some surprising benefits.


He does explain what those benefits are, but they might be considered spoilers so I'll leave them out.  Still, has there ever been another game where the best opening move was immediate suicide? wasted

-Autistic Angel

I haven't had that feeling since the last time I bought a game and realized what a horrible pile it was. slywink
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2014, 05:31:09 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on February 12, 2014, 08:46:24 AM

Quote from: Destructor on February 11, 2014, 10:26:28 PM


Either that or the entire team went into making Bravely Default (which is just fantastic).

Yeah i am tempted to buy a 3DS just for that game

That would be a completely worthwhile investment.  BD is the best JRPG to come out in a long, long, long time.
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2014, 06:02:27 PM »

This is turn-based? Weird, every video I've ever seen of the game made it seem like an action spin off.
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2014, 06:15:06 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 12, 2014, 06:02:27 PM

This is turn-based? Weird, every video I've ever seen of the game made it seem like an action spin off.

No, it isn't turn-based.  You can assign up to 4 actions (one each to a controller button).  You then pick those actions and they use so much of a bar.  If that bar goes empty, you can switch over to another "class" which has its own bar.  It's all real time.
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2014, 06:34:59 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on February 12, 2014, 06:15:06 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 12, 2014, 06:02:27 PM

This is turn-based? Weird, every video I've ever seen of the game made it seem like an action spin off.

No, it isn't turn-based.  You can assign up to 4 actions (one each to a controller button).  You then pick those actions and they use so much of a bar.  If that bar goes empty, you can switch over to another "class" which has its own bar.  It's all real time.

Blarg watched lots of videos, know the answer
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2014, 06:47:28 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on February 12, 2014, 06:15:06 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 12, 2014, 06:02:27 PM

This is turn-based? Weird, every video I've ever seen of the game made it seem like an action spin off.

No, it isn't turn-based.  You can assign up to 4 actions (one each to a controller button).  You then pick those actions and they use so much of a bar.  If that bar goes empty, you can switch over to another "class" which has its own bar.  It's all real time.

But it's not like DMC, right? That's what I thought it was all this time.
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2014, 09:48:27 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 12, 2014, 06:47:28 PM


But it's not like DMC, right? That's what I thought it was all this time.

Correct.  You won't be doing combos like DmC and doesn't have that kind of combat.
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2014, 10:17:43 PM »

13-2 and Lightning Returns were released purely for milking purposes, no? To recoup some of the losses the publisher has seen lately.
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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2014, 11:50:30 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on February 12, 2014, 10:17:43 PM

13-2 and Lightning Returns were released purely for milking purposes, no? To recoup some of the losses the publisher has seen lately.

The 'losses' that Squenix 'had' were because of entirely utterly totally made up sales expectations.

Like Hitman selling 5 million copies. Tomb Raider selling 6 million. Insane stupid things like that.
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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2014, 09:57:01 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on February 11, 2014, 11:10:29 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 11, 2014, 08:45:44 PM

Quote from: The Grue on February 11, 2014, 04:34:39 PM

I'm very stoked for this one.  I am the rare person that actually really liked FFXIII and FFXIII-2 and I also enjoyed the demo for LR.  I like the switching between jobs mechanic a whole bunch and like this new combat system I played in the demo.  I knew this one wouldn't review very well and lots of people talk about how the franchise has declined, but I think the deal is that games as a medium has expanded so much and lots of people have moved past JRPGs.  Also, people hold onto the old games and how they worked and so when they try something new, it kind of upsets people.  I was okay with them taking away the exploration of typical FF games in XIII, though they did give you some more freedom about 40 hours into the game.  For me, I just like the general world of a FF game and am okay with them experimenting.  I like this 13 days until the end of the world mechanic they're putting into this one.

The end of the world stuff I liked, the damned Franklin Covey simulator of what gates are open, what vendors are present, etc. got old very fast.  I like the experimentation, but there is a point where a gameplay mechanic that is well meaning can become irritating. 

FranklinCovey simulator?  As an employee of FranklinCovey, I'm officially intrigued.   smile
Lol, you are?  nifty!   You have to keep track of which gate is open and when.  For instance, to get the the Warrens (aka slums) they are only open between midnight and 6am.  After that they close the doors and you can't get there until the next day.  There are only a handful of days to finish the game, so getting there to find a closed gate is just annoying. 
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« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2014, 09:57:41 PM »

Quote from: farley2k on February 12, 2014, 06:34:59 PM

Quote from: The Grue on February 12, 2014, 06:15:06 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 12, 2014, 06:02:27 PM

This is turn-based? Weird, every video I've ever seen of the game made it seem like an action spin off.

No, it isn't turn-based.  You can assign up to 4 actions (one each to a controller button).  You then pick those actions and they use so much of a bar.  If that bar goes empty, you can switch over to another "class" which has its own bar.  It's all real time.

Blarg watched lots of videos, know the answer

And when you are 'empty' on that bar it makes this obnoxious honking sound.  You'll hear it. A lot. 
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2014, 02:22:08 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 14, 2014, 09:57:01 PM

Lol, you are?  nifty!   You have to keep track of which gate is open and when.  For instance, to get the the Warrens (aka slums) they are only open between midnight and 6am.  After that they close the doors and you can't get there until the next day.  There are only a handful of days to finish the game, so getting there to find a closed gate is just annoying.  

It writes those times on the map.
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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2014, 02:23:21 AM »

Quote from: The Grue on February 15, 2014, 02:22:08 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 14, 2014, 09:57:01 PM

Lol, you are?  nifty!   You have to keep track of which gate is open and when.  For instance, to get the the Warrens (aka slums) they are only open between midnight and 6am.  After that they close the doors and you can't get there until the next day.  There are only a handful of days to finish the game, so getting there to find a closed gate is just annoying.  

It writes those times on the map.

True, but in most RPGs you could get there when you get there and that'd be just fine.  Go solving side quests, level up your characters, etc.  Now we are forced to say "Well, I only have an hour so I better run and be past that gate before it closes or I can't access that area.  Oh shit, but that means I can't do this other thing till tomorrow".  It's arbitrary and that's what bugs me.
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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2014, 02:35:16 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on February 16, 2014, 02:23:21 AM


True, but in most RPGs you could get there when you get there and that'd be just fine.  Go solving side quests, level up your characters, etc.  Now we are forced to say "Well, I only have an hour so I better run and be past that gate before it closes or I can't access that area.  Oh shit, but that means I can't do this other thing till tomorrow".  It's arbitrary and that's what bugs me.

Funny, because this is actually one of the things I like about this game.  You have to make decisions about what you can do and how much time it will take.  I'm on Day 3 right now and really loving the game.  I haven't had any issues so far remembering where people are, but that was just the first city.  On Day 3, I went to the Wildlands, so we'll see how much more complex things get, but having a schedule is one of the things I adored about Majora's Mask.

I've read complaints from other people that the quests don't have markers (though you can make your own on the map) and yet you get tons of people complaining that games today hold your hand too much.  I'm of the camp that likes to see exploration left up to the player, just like in the old Final Fantasy days.  It's one of the reasons I love the Souls games so much.  I've been enjoying the game a great deal so far.  We'll see how it goes, though.
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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2014, 06:21:45 AM »

Apparently, Easy mode is the recommended mode to start with, while "normal" sounds like what should actually be called "hard" mode. I remember reviewers getting a fact sheet that recommended playing through the first time on easy.

Insane.
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