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Author Topic: (PSN) Journey, from the makers of Flower  (Read 4989 times)
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« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2012, 06:41:26 PM »

So should I get it?
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« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2012, 06:42:17 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on April 07, 2012, 06:23:49 PM

I hate to say it, but if you're trying to force people to quit and play it solo, you're playing it wrong and the devs have said as much.

Well that's a pretty damn big problem with their game design then. If people who want to play it solo end up sabotaging the multiplayer experience of those who want to play MP in order to be alone, then none of those two parties benefit. Why couldn't they just have an option called "Solitary Journey" or something in that style? It's not a game developer's job to force players to appreciate a certain type of experience. For games where the experience itself is the central motif, I'd like to appreciate it on my own terms without having a total stranger bouncing around on my screen trying to get my attention. Is that really so much to ask for?
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« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2012, 06:55:55 PM »

It *is* their job if that's the point of the game. If you don't have Internet, you can't buy the game. If you play it, you are forced to play multi. If you didn't want to play it that way, you shouldn't have bought it.
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« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2012, 06:57:30 PM »

Actually, you could play it solo if you logged out of PSN, right?  Or does it not allow you to?  At any rate, the game is a multiplayer game first and foremost.
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« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2012, 07:20:55 PM »

After hearing so many good things about this from the GB crew, I decided to log onto PSN and buy it. $15?? For a 2-ish hour game?

Sorry but, no.
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« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2012, 07:30:16 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on April 07, 2012, 07:20:55 PM

After hearing so many good things about this from the GB crew, I decided to log onto PSN and buy it. $15?? For a 2-ish hour game?

Sorry but, no.

Why do people associate value with hours of gameplay?  I will never understand that. I've played longer, more expensive games that aren't as good as this game. In fact, it's one of the best game experiences I've ever had in my life. I can't tell you how to spend your money, but don't make a mistake associating value with time played.
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« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2012, 10:15:31 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on April 07, 2012, 06:23:49 PM

I would argue the point of this game is to experience it with a random person and not play it solo.  It's an amazing experience when playing it with others because it allows you to experience the game together without the stuff that would normally be off putting about multi with the ability to directly communicate. For instance, going through the game with one person up until the end and then losing them somehow. Or, having a great experience e with someone and seeing their name at the end being TapDatAzzzzz69 and realizing that you had a great experience with someone that you would have prejudged.

I hate to say it, but if you're trying to force people to quit and play it solo, you're playing it wrong and the devs have said as much.


I agree with above. It's very interesting to play mp in this fashion. The developers wanted it this way. Going through a "Trippy" atmosphere with a stranger. That being said, sign off psn. Done deal.
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« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2012, 10:47:46 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on April 07, 2012, 07:30:16 PM

Quote from: Ridah on April 07, 2012, 07:20:55 PM

After hearing so many good things about this from the GB crew, I decided to log onto PSN and buy it. $15?? For a 2-ish hour game?

Sorry but, no.

Why do people associate value with hours of gameplay?  I will never understand that. I've played longer, more expensive games that aren't as good as this game. In fact, it's one of the best game experiences I've ever had in my life. I can't tell you how to spend your money, but don't make a mistake associating value with time played.

Entertainment value per hour. If someone goes to a movie, they'll probably pay $10 to get two hours direct enjoyment out of it (plus another 10 hours bitching about my ruined mental picture of how the characters were cast on an internet message board).  So they paid about $5 an hour for it.  And that's usually expensive enough that most people don't like to spend it if the movie has a chance of being disappointing.

If someone pays $60 for a game and the main campaign is 8 hours and there's no reason to play the tacked-on MP, then they've spent $7.50/hour.  Again, most people get bent out of shape about that.  If a game delivers 20 hours of good entertainment, then people feel better about the investment, assuming they don't feel that 10 hours are there just to pad it out.

So paying $7.50 an hour dealing with a possibly annoying netizen squeaking at them would be something that a lot of people would consider unworthy of their investment of both time and money.
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« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2012, 11:05:29 PM »

But why are you judging your fun based on time?  It shouldn't factor into it.  I would much rather awesomeness for 2 hours at the same price as mediocrity for 80 hours.  Sure, I got a better monetary bargain out of it when thinking about it from a time value, but 80 hours of mediocrity would suck.
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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2012, 11:42:03 PM »

It's an opportunity cost thing.  Why should I spend $15 for two hours of enjoyment on that game when I can spend the same or less on another game that gets me more enjoyment?  Will I enjoy that 2-hour game more than I would if I spent that money at the theater?
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« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2012, 02:12:50 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on April 07, 2012, 11:42:03 PM

It's an opportunity cost thing.  Why should I spend $15 for two hours of enjoyment on that game when I can spend the same or less on another game that gets me more enjoyment?  Will I enjoy that 2-hour game more than I would if I spent that money at the theater?

But an 80 hour game of mediocrity would not get you more enjoyment than a, say, 4 hour game of brilliance (BTW, I'm not sure why this two hour thing keeps coming up.  It's defnitely taken me longer han that).

Additionally, by saying you value quantity over quality, and saying it with your wallet, you are only guaranteeing that padding will happen, and thus paving the way for mediocrity.
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« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2012, 02:25:08 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 08, 2012, 02:12:50 AM

Additionally, by saying you value quantity over quality, and saying it with your wallet, you are only guaranteeing that padding will happen, and thus paving the way for mediocrity.

Yeah, I can say that for me, most games that are 40+ hours would be better games at only 20 hours because they tend to pad, pad, pad. I can understand wanting an 80 hour game if you buy a few games a year, but with so many games to play, I'd take awesome 10 hour games.
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« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2012, 02:41:19 AM »

Mediocrity will fall by the wayside.  Look at how quickly a lot of AAA titles are dropping in price in the PC world these days.  Padding and mediocrity are rampant.  That doesn't mean that we need to embrace it, especially if you know it's not up your alley.
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« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2012, 05:51:15 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on April 08, 2012, 02:41:19 AM

Mediocrity will fall by the wayside.  Look at how quickly a lot of AAA titles are dropping in price in the PC world these days.  Padding and mediocrity are rampant.  That doesn't mean that we need to embrace it, especially if you know it's not up your alley.

But by demanding games that are longer, padded and, as such, more poorly crafted, you're demanding mediocrity, and it will not at all fall by the wayside.  More of it will come.

When the rare game comes along that is spectacular despite being short in length, you are saying: I don't want good, I want long.  And they will give it to you.

Of course I am not saying that only short games are good, mind you.  Merely that by not embracing a fulfilling experience, no matter the length, you're saying that it's not worth the effort for designers to make quality.

Because here's the thing: it's not like the makers of Journey or Portal or any other brilliant but short game threw it together in a weekend.  They spent a hell of a long time making something to be proud of.  Now, of course, many of these longer, mediocre titles took a lot of time, too.  However, you're usually looking at a bigger team, and the hours are spread out more.  More importantly, however, is that for the smaller games, there's personal sacrifice and passion put into each and every segment of a spectacular game that, frankly, you're not getting in every nook of a 40 hour game.
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« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2012, 05:54:16 AM »

No, they misinterpret what we want.  They put out mediocre long when we say we want good, but longer.  When we start rejecting mediocre long, they'll hopefully either start putting out good long or just forego long for good short.  Take a look at the ME3 uproar.

But all this is moot in a world where the masses line up to throw their wallets at the screen for every Madden and Call of Duty trailer.
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« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2012, 02:39:43 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on April 07, 2012, 06:42:17 PM

Quote from: The Grue on April 07, 2012, 06:23:49 PM

I hate to say it, but if you're trying to force people to quit and play it solo, you're playing it wrong and the devs have said as much.

Well that's a pretty damn big problem with their game design then. If people who want to play it solo end up sabotaging the multiplayer experience of those who want to play MP in order to be alone, then none of those two parties benefit. Why couldn't they just have an option called "Solitary Journey" or something in that style? It's not a game developer's job to force players to appreciate a certain type of experience. For games where the experience itself is the central motif, I'd like to appreciate it on my own terms without having a total stranger bouncing around on my screen trying to get my attention. Is that really so much to ask for?

Actually it -is- the developers job to "force" you to play a certain way. If I buy soccer and want it to be more like tennis, I purchased the wrong game. I definatly see both sides of this argument. That being said, after reading any reviews you should know what you are getting into. Noone is pissed that in world of Warcraft you are " forced" into a multiplayer engagement. That's what the game is! Same goes for battlefield 1943 ( or really any of them). Journey was * intended* to be played with someone. The experience is supposed to be that way. I didn't buy a Suburu and then complain that it couldn't do 2 wheel drive. The fucker is AWD! As advertised!

Also, I guess the value of a game is and should be based on different things decided by each individual. Sometimes a short game like journey is worth 15, sometimes not. Sometimes a 60 game like dues ex human revolution is worth it at its 30 hrs range, sometimes not. That's opinion. Really. I
Don't sit next to someone in a restaurant and tell them that ribeye wasn't worth it, but my chicken is great value. Ding, ding, ding... Opinion! They are like assholes, everyone has one! -" get that fucking piss cup out of my fucking face, my sex , drugs and my rock and roll are fucking own business, I don't ask your wife why position she fucks in"... Preference, privacy and opinion all clarified.slywink btw, someone know where that above quote came from?

Btw, after quite a few years. I still love this site and it's forums/ forum inhabitors. Really the only site I post on anymore. For the most part, things like above can be said and noone gets their panties in a bundle;).
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« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2012, 03:23:22 PM »

Quote from: Harpua3 on April 08, 2012, 02:39:43 PM

Actually it -is- the developers job to "force" you to play a certain way. If I buy soccer and want it to be more like tennis, I purchased the wrong game. I definatly see both sides of this argument. That being said, after reading any reviews you should know what you are getting into. Noone is pissed that in world of Warcraft you are " forced" into a multiplayer engagement. That's what the game is! Same goes for battlefield 1943 ( or really any of them). Journey was * intended* to be played with someone. The experience is supposed to be that way. I didn't buy a Suburu and then complain that it couldn't do 2 wheel drive. The fucker is AWD! As advertised!

Some of you seem to be putting words into the mouths of the developers. Here's a snippet from the "About the game" section of the Journey homepage:

Quote from: thatgamecompany
Travel and explore this ancient, mysterious world alone, or with a stranger you meet along the way.

Note the highlight. The game's description, from the developers themselves, indicates that you have a choice in the matter. You don't. I call that misleading, and it certainly doesn't jibe with what you guys are saying. Games like Dark Souls are also online singleplayer experiences, but there you always have a choice in whether or not you want other players to interfere with your own experience. I shouldn't have to read reviews to figure this out (I had in fact at least watched a video review, which made no mention of the fact that you may end up stuck with a player against your will, so even reviews are no guarantee that you'll be informed).

In short, I feel as if I ended up playing a different game than what I was told it would be, and it definitely soured the experience for me.
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« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2012, 06:35:54 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on April 08, 2012, 05:54:16 AM

No, they misinterpret what we want.  They put out mediocre long when we say we want good, but longer.  When we start rejecting mediocre long, they'll hopefully either start putting out good long or just forego long for good short.  Take a look at the ME3 uproar.

But all this is moot in a world where the masses line up to throw their wallets at the screen for every Madden and Call of Duty trailer.

No, by rejecting good, though short and buying long, no matter the quality, you're sending a very clear message.  You can say you want good as long as it's long, but if you actually buy the long but mediocre games in the place of the short but brilliant ones, you're sending a very clear message.

Why should pubishers let developers spend the extra time to hone and craft a tight, remarkable game if the masses aren't going to buy it and get a long but so-so one instead?
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« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2012, 08:28:15 PM »

I don't buy the argument that the price of a short game can be justified by how good it is. My argument is why should I pay $15 for a 2-3 hour good game when I could pay $15 for an 8-12 hour good game. Or hell, I can play good games like League of Legends completely for free.

Anyways, I'll get this eventually when the price goes down.


 
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« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2012, 07:17:04 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on April 08, 2012, 03:23:22 PM

Quote from: Harpua3 on April 08, 2012, 02:39:43 PM

Actually it -is- the developers job to "force" you to play a certain way. If I buy soccer and want it to be more like tennis, I purchased the wrong game. I definatly see both sides of this argument. That being said, after reading any reviews you should know what you are getting into. Noone is pissed that in world of Warcraft you are " forced" into a multiplayer engagement. That's what the game is! Same goes for battlefield 1943 ( or really any of them). Journey was * intended* to be played with someone. The experience is supposed to be that way. I didn't buy a Suburu and then complain that it couldn't do 2 wheel drive. The fucker is AWD! As advertised!

Some of you seem to be putting words into the mouths of the developers. Here's a snippet from the "About the game" section of the Journey homepage:

Quote from: thatgamecompany
Travel and explore this ancient, mysterious world alone, or with a stranger you meet along the way.

Note the highlight. The game's description, from the developers themselves, indicates that you have a choice in the matter. You don't. I call that misleading, and it certainly doesn't jibe with what you guys are saying. Games like Dark Souls are also online singleplayer experiences, but there you always have a choice in whether or not you want other players to interfere with your own experience. I shouldn't have to read reviews to figure this out (I had in fact at least watched a video review, which made no mention of the fact that you may end up stuck with a player against your will, so even reviews are no guarantee that you'll be informed).

In short, I feel as if I ended up playing a different game than what I was told it would be, and it definitely soured the experience for me.

I guess I never have seen that quote. I see your point there. No matter how you cut it, we all Deserve our own opinions to be respected... Even though I'm right;).
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« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2012, 03:00:57 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on April 08, 2012, 03:23:22 PM


Quote from: thatgamecompany
Travel and explore this ancient, mysterious world alone, or with a stranger you meet along the way.

Note the highlight. The game's description, from the developers themselves, indicates that you have a choice in the matter. You don't. I call that misleading, and it certainly doesn't jibe with what you guys are saying. Games like Dark Souls are also online singleplayer experiences, but there you always have a choice in whether or not you want other players to interfere with your own experience. I shouldn't have to read reviews to figure this out (I had in fact at least watched a video review, which made no mention of the fact that you may end up stuck with a player against your will, so even reviews are no guarantee that you'll be informed).

In short, I feel as if I ended up playing a different game than what I was told it would be, and it definitely soured the experience for me.

Again, did you try logging out of PSN and playing it?  If that works, then there is your choice, but, and I don't have links to this, because this was through podcasts and other sources, the real focus of the game truly is the experience you have with another player.  Still, though, I think you have a way to play it the way you want, so get to it.  I can tell you, though, that I wouldn't have enjoyed the game as much solo and this is from someone who doesn't really play games multiplayer.
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« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2012, 03:22:46 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on April 08, 2012, 08:28:15 PM

I don't buy the argument that the price of a short game can be justified by how good it is. My argument is why should I pay $15 for a 2-3 hour good game when I could pay $15 for an 8-12 hour good game. Or hell, I can play good games like League of Legends completely for free.

Anyways, I'll get this eventually when the price goes down.


 

Your argument makes a bit more sense, but what usually gets said is "I'm not paying money for a short game" or "why would I pay that much for a short game when I can get a long game for the same amount" with no mention of quality. 

Additionally, we're not just talking good games here.  We're talking games that transcend the medium.  Experiences like no other.   Experiences that should happen more often in gaming and so should be encouraged.  And the only way to encourage companies to make such games is to buy them.  In a perfect world, companies would demand that games be fine-tuned and not padded, which would elevate many good games to great status.

What's funny is that the dismissal of fantastic, short games gets me so riled up that I'll spend a lot of time talking about it, as you see.  What you'll also see if you go back in this thread is that Journey isn't really doing it for me.  I'm not as connected to it as I was with Flower at all.

But I can still see the effort that went into it (and I know others are feeling it with the game), so for that reason, I'm glad I paid for it.
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« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2012, 06:39:16 PM »

I saw Dark of the Moon.

I've spent more than $15 for a 2-4 hour experience. I regret that.

This? I've not taken the bait ... yet. Loved flOw and flower.
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« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2012, 08:02:15 PM »

Quote from: Purge on April 09, 2012, 06:39:16 PM

I saw Dark of the Moon.

I've spent more than $15 for a 2-4 hour experience. I regret that.

This? I've not taken the bait ... yet. Loved flOw and flower.

I have not finished it yet, despite it being rather short. I think I'm going to start fresh on it this week and play through it all in one sitting. I've heard that's a good way to do it..
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« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2012, 08:15:27 AM »

First of all, the game tracks if you just leave the person who joins your game behind. Just walk the other way for a bit and voila, gone.

And it also kinda has a message there. You're going to meet people whether you like it or not along the way, and you're the one who has to go actively shut yourself away.

I just finished it, and honestly feel like a better person for having done so. Few games I can say the same about. My world isn't shattered, and my life hasn't changed, but it's definitely an experience that was worth the time and money I spent on it.

I had a wonderful time playing with a random player that I met about half-way through, and we finished it together. Previous to that, I was playing with someone I was sure was a kid who didn't have a long scarf and was a little spazzy, but I enjoyed it enough that I would go help him around to places he couldn't get to normally. Eventually, we just drifted apart.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 08:20:20 AM by Turtle » Logged
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« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2012, 01:14:44 PM »

Screw you turtle. That was a magical moment for me.

slywink

I kid - I haven't boughten it yet.
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« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2012, 01:31:58 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on April 17, 2012, 08:15:27 AM

First of all, the game tracks if you just leave the person who joins your game behind. Just walk the other way for a bit and voila, gone.

What is this mythical "other way" you're referring to? I need detailed instructions as it's a bit hard to go the "other way" when someone is following you around no matter what you do.
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« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2012, 06:02:52 PM »

You keep avoiding whether you've tried just logging out of PSN and playing. Seems the obvious solution to your problem, Tilt.
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« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2012, 06:26:18 PM »

Also, hitting the pause button causes your character to just sit down on the spot. Eventually some people get the hint and walk away.
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« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2012, 08:41:20 PM »

for those of you who like art books.

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« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2012, 02:34:05 AM »

Just picked this up in the PSN (and PS+) sales and played through it. So glad I did, I really enjoyed it. I actually knew nothing about the MP, so I was really tickled when I found out that those little guys running around the game were actual players.
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« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2012, 03:28:56 AM »

This was one of the first games I picked up when I got my PS3.  Absolutely loved it...what a fantastic gaming experience.

For those looking for something in a similar vein, be sure to check out The Unfinished Swan.   thumbsup
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« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2013, 02:09:35 PM »

So I think this was available recently as a freebie for PS+. I just started it up tonight and wow, I'm just blown away. The game is gorgeous. It feels so wonderful flying through the air or zipping down sand dunes. I know some people criticize it as not really being a game but if this is the future of gaming then I'm all for it. I had no idea I was playing MP with someone else! I thought it was merely a AI player. It was kind of fun playing with someone else but it was a bit annoying in that he/she did a lot of the work for me due to my ineptitude. Great game.
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