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Author Topic: [PS3] The Last Of Us  (Read 12079 times)
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #320 on: August 02, 2013, 08:19:54 PM »

Will I ever be able to play it on PS4?  I've researched this and received mixed answers.
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« Reply #321 on: August 02, 2013, 08:29:13 PM »

There's no point in asking. Nobody knows. I'd say it's unlikely, but it's all just guesswork.
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« Reply #322 on: August 02, 2013, 11:00:08 PM »

You'll probably be able to play it via Gaikai eventually. Also given its late release and the fact that they did PS2 HD rereleases on PS3, odds seem good. Nothing definitive yet, though.
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« Reply #323 on: August 02, 2013, 11:15:14 PM »

Forgot about Gaikai. It's pretty likely that a high-profile title like The Last of Us will appear through that service. It's much less likely that we'll see an actual port, IMO.
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« Reply #324 on: August 02, 2013, 11:41:53 PM »

If they did a (more) HD port I would definitely pick it up.
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« Reply #325 on: August 02, 2013, 11:58:50 PM »

Yeah, TLOU's framerate jumps all over the place, and the intensive renderer causes all sorts of input lag.

The overall code won't be easy to port over, but Naughty Dog is using the same rendering engine from their PS3 games for their PS4 title. Maybe that whole "easy to develop for" thing will work with first party ports.
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« Reply #326 on: August 03, 2013, 03:06:54 AM »

I don't remember any lag to speak of or a single framerate issue.
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« Reply #327 on: September 13, 2013, 03:41:30 AM »

Quote from: ATB on August 01, 2013, 10:40:20 AM

Quote from: wonderpug on July 31, 2013, 11:23:04 PM

Finally finished this.  Holy shit what an awesome game.

Quote from: ATB on July 15, 2013, 07:21:22 PM

Finished.

A masterwork to cap off this generation.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I would have made the same choices Joel made humanity be damned.

Same here, and I so very much felt aligned with...
Spoiler for Hiden:
Joel's state of mind and his decisions at the end that I'm having a hard time understanding how other people could have felt any different.  I'm catching up on end-of-game discussions around the interweb and I'm boggled at seeing so many people say "well Joel isn't a hero" or "the ending is what Joel would do, not what you as the player want to do."

I see his actions at the end as being the heroic path.  If Ellie herself consented to giving her life, maybe that introduces some grey area, but to kill an innocent kid to get at the cure?  Or even an innocent person, regardless of age?  I saw every Firefly in that hospital as a monster, surgeons included.  They had lost their humanity, same as the cannibals, and the only right path was to rescue Ellie at any cost.

The only place I saw any grey area at the end was in lying to Ellie about what happened at the hospital.  But I think Joel knows Ellie well enough to think she had a very high chance of giving her life to humanity voluntarily.  That was the point he really abandoned humanity for the sake of saving Ellie, not when he was in the hospital.  I'd like to think I would have done the same thing.  Sorry, humanity.

I disagree

Spoiler for Hiden:
I think Joel knew that Ellie was doing it voluntarily the whole time he was going to rescue her.  The voice recordings of the firefly leader and the difficulty she was having with the decision too highlight this I think. Ellie was willing,  she was making the sacrifice for the greater good, but those who cared about her were not necessarily ok with it. Firefly leader swallowed the pain and went with the 'greater good' despite her personal feelings. But, Joel could not abide losing his daughter again, so he went full vengeful dad in a way that he could not with his own child. I don't know that it was the heroic path or not.  I know it was the one any father would make.

I just finished the game and I'm with ATB on this:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Joel's decision is largely selfish. He lost his daughter and he's not going to lose Ellie. I think he knows that Ellie would have voluntarily given up her life if it meant saving humanity, but he couldn't give her up. And at the end, I think Ellie knows, or at least deeply suspects, that Joel is lying.

From the beginning, Joel is shown to be not such a great guy. He kills indiscriminately and without much thought. He gains some of his humanity through his connection to Ellie, but from almost anyone else's perspective, he's till a pretty bad dude. Whether his actions at the end were right or not is up for debate, but I find it hard to think of Joel as a "hero".
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« Reply #328 on: September 13, 2013, 09:46:07 AM »

My response:
Spoiler for Hiden:
On the other hand, Ellie is still only 14. We don't expect anyone that age to be able to make the right choices. Doesn't matter how Joel felt about it, or that Ellie might have gone along with it. Expecting Ellie to make that choice would still be very wrong.

Jorl may not be a good person, but he did what a guardian is supposed to, put the interests of the child first, a child that they never bothered to wake up to ask in the first place. And the reason why they never woke her up is because I don't think any of these people had the guts to ask Ellie to her face, which would have amounted to telling her they were going to kill her. Anyone saying Ellie was willing needed to think about waking up a 14 year old girl, or any child, and telling her to her face that you were going to kill them.

Also, Tommy's group, and others in the game is showing that, if it weren't for the bandits causing problems, people can still live pretty good lives despite the cordyceps.

It's a very grey ending. Neither side is truly right or wrong, it's just people in a world that's more messed up than usual.
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« Reply #329 on: September 13, 2013, 12:21:51 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on September 13, 2013, 09:46:07 AM

My response:
Spoiler for Hiden:
On the other hand, Ellie is still only 14. We don't expect anyone that age to be able to make the right choices. Doesn't matter how Joel felt about it, or that Ellie might have gone along with it. Expecting Ellie to make that choice would still be very wrong.

Jorl may not be a good person, but he did what a guardian is supposed to, put the interests of the child first, a child that they never bothered to wake up to ask in the first place. And the reason why they never woke her up is because I don't think any of these people had the guts to ask Ellie to her face, which would have amounted to telling her they were going to kill her. Anyone saying Ellie was willing needed to think about waking up a 14 year old girl, or any child, and telling her to her face that you were going to kill them.

Also, Tommy's group, and others in the game is showing that, if it weren't for the bandits causing problems, people can still live pretty good lives despite the cordyceps.

It's a very grey ending. Neither side is truly right or wrong, it's just people in a world that's more messed up than usual.

Your first two paragraphs would be perfectly reasonable arguments in a world that still had a society.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Ellie is a lot older than 14.  She has to make decisions that effect her living or dying every day.
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« Reply #330 on: September 13, 2013, 01:17:57 PM »

sorta spoilers

Spoiler for Hiden:
Human beings certainly did used to treat early teen years as basically the beginning of adulthood, and I agree that a post-apocalyptic world pushes things back in that direction.  Where it gets complex in an interesting way is that in Last of Us society you still have people who remember the way of life wherein kids are overprotected and not expected to contribute to society.  Maybe in one more generation Last of Us culture (in general) would think of 14-year-olds as adult decision-makers, but at least in the current Last of Us world we see that kids that age are thought of as non-adults that need to be protected and chaperoned.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 01:58:12 PM by wonderpug » Logged
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« Reply #331 on: September 13, 2013, 01:55:15 PM »

Might want to spoiler that wonderpug, even if it isn't a direct spoiler.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Biologically and culturally, even if a 14 year old is forced to make such decisions, it doesn't mean they make the best, or better, decisions compared to adults. It's silly to consult Anyone who has ever had a younger loved one make some stupid decisions, especially a parent, can relate. And in this case, a decision that results in their death. There's a difference between having to make decisions and contributing to society, and it's another thing to make full adult level decisions with all the information.

Also again, no one asked Ellie, regardless of what choice you think she might have made, no one asked her to her face. It's easy to say someone would have wanted to sacrifice themselves for you, when you never gave them the chance to say they would.

It's also a bit silly to try and talk about medieval times and places where culture breaks down and how they seem to respect kids decisions more. That's BS. They had to give kids more responsibility earlier, but don't confuse that for actual respect and experience. Having a life expectancy less than 30 for the majority of the population really skews how quickly you have to throw people into the fire. I know this, because I'm 30+ now and I actually still remember the little shit that I was at 14, let alone 18, or all through my 20 something years.

Of course, all this is still moot by the fact that in biological research, they have biological reactors where you can take a tiny sample of something, and grow it into a larger sample for testing. The audio logs also talk about that exact process where they say they took cultures from her blood and other bodily fluids. So this means that all they have to do is take a tiny piece of the cordyceps, even if it is on her brain, to culture. One actual researcher of fungal infections commented that the sample size was about the head of a pin sized sample that they needed.

I saw that coming ahead of time and was cringing when they introduced the whole need to kill her for that reason. I wished they could have written a better reason for the need to kill her, maybe introducing some level of incompetence or lack of equipment and resources.
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« Reply #332 on: September 13, 2013, 04:18:57 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 03, 2013, 03:06:54 AM

I don't remember any lag to speak of or a single framerate issue.

I experienced framerate issues, it's one of the reasons I stopped playing the game.
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« Reply #333 on: September 13, 2013, 04:31:32 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on September 13, 2013, 04:18:57 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 03, 2013, 03:06:54 AM

I don't remember any lag to speak of or a single framerate issue.

I experienced framerate issues, it's one of the reasons I stopped playing the game.

My advice would be to get over it and play on. Game is worth it.
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« Reply #334 on: September 13, 2013, 06:40:04 PM »

Quote from: ATB on September 13, 2013, 04:31:32 PM

Quote from: Ridah on September 13, 2013, 04:18:57 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 03, 2013, 03:06:54 AM

I don't remember any lag to speak of or a single framerate issue.

I experienced framerate issues, it's one of the reasons I stopped playing the game.

My advice would be to get over it and play on. Game is worth it.

I think I'm around half way into it. I've tried probably 10 times to pick up the controller and force myself through but I lose steam and end up shutting the game off. I really, really don't like the gameplay and the framerate is just icing on the cake. The cutscenes and dialogue are nice, though.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 06:42:48 PM by Ridah » Logged

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« Reply #335 on: September 13, 2013, 07:00:48 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on September 13, 2013, 06:40:04 PM

Quote from: ATB on September 13, 2013, 04:31:32 PM

Quote from: Ridah on September 13, 2013, 04:18:57 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 03, 2013, 03:06:54 AM

I don't remember any lag to speak of or a single framerate issue.

I experienced framerate issues, it's one of the reasons I stopped playing the game.

My advice would be to get over it and play on. Game is worth it.

I think I'm around half way into it. I've tried probably 10 times to pick up the controller and force myself through but I lose steam and end up shutting the game off. I really, really don't like the gameplay and the framerate is just icing on the cake. The cutscenes and dialogue are nice, though.

Have you tried switching the difficulty to easy?  I switched about halfway through the game, when I found that I was enjoying playing through the story more than playing through combat challenges.
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« Reply #336 on: September 13, 2013, 11:35:26 PM »

Framerate and input lag are the two biggest things I think hold back Naughty Dog's games from appeal to a wider, more action oriented gaming audience. Some people just don't like, and can't compensate for it. And that's a fine opinion, and I very sure it's the sole reason why you get comments of people hating the gameplay overall, when I think most just hate that the shooting is so lagging and the framerate dips so much. If you grew up on 60fps or solid 30 fps shooters, you'd be having as much problem as some have with 48 or 60fps movies.

On the other hand, most people don't realize it's a problem, as evidenced in this thread, unless specifically pointed out, and subconsciously adjust for it, making it seem fine.

Going back to the ending:
Spoiler for Hiden:
The way people respond to the ending makes me think of the classic Trolley thought experiment on Ethics, and all its permutations. That thought experiment goes like this:
Quote from: From Wikipedia article
There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. Unfortunately, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?

After you make that choice, now we add this wrinkle:

Quote
As before, a trolley is hurtling down a track towards five people. You are on a bridge under which it will pass, and you can stop it by dropping a heavy weight in front of it. As it happens, there is a very fat man next to you Ė your only way to stop the trolley is to push him over the bridge and onto the track, killing him to save five. Should you proceed?

Most people in the first case would pull the lever. To me, those are the people who say Ellie should have sacrificed herself, and Joel should have let it happen.

However, ad in the wrinkle of actually waking up Ellie, and asking to her face, or even doing to cutting yourself. I think most people would not, for the same reasons why they wouldn't push The Fat Man onto the tracks in the trolley problem.

What's ethically right in either circumstance? Why does the act of pushing, or directly killing or telling Ellie she'll be killed change that?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 12:16:09 AM by Turtle » Logged
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« Reply #337 on: September 15, 2013, 01:26:10 AM »

Maybe I just don't know lag when I see it, but I swear I never saw any.

You guys talking about MP?

I never had any problems hitting baddies or navigating or doing relatively precision things...

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« Reply #338 on: September 15, 2013, 02:15:19 AM »

Iím going to assume the problem is more frame rate drops than lag.  I definitely noticed a lower frame rate than Iím used to; Iím mainly a PC gamer.  It actually had the effect of making me feel rather sick if I played for long stretches of time.
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« Reply #339 on: September 15, 2013, 11:22:08 AM »

By lag, I mean input lag. Basically, from the time you move the thumbstick or push a button, to the time an action happens on screen. The input lag on Naughty Dog games are higher than usual because of the complicated rendering and animation system they use, has a whole lot of steps before things render on screen. It makes their games prettier, but adds the input lag. It was a huge problem with Killzone 1 and 2, although they kind of hid it in 2 and 3 by focusing on animations and weightyness.

Input lag can happen in addition to framerate drops. Which means in areas of intense graphics of action, you can have varying levels of framerate drops and input lag.

Now, we're still talking in terms of milliseconds, but it adds up. Some people perceive and are affected by it more than others. Many people, and I, can adjust to it, as a normal part of adjusting to a new game. But I think it'll be more of an issue this next gen as more games hit 60fps.
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« Reply #340 on: September 15, 2013, 03:57:05 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on September 15, 2013, 11:22:08 AM

By lag, I mean input lag. Basically, from the time you move the thumbstick or push a button, to the time an action happens on screen. The input lag on Naughty Dog games are higher than usual because of the complicated rendering and animation system they use, has a whole lot of steps before things render on screen. It makes their games prettier, but adds the input lag. It was a huge problem with Killzone 1 and 2, although they kind of hid it in 2 and 3 by focusing on animations and weightyness.

Input lag can happen in addition to framerate drops. Which means in areas of intense graphics of action, you can have varying levels of framerate drops and input lag.

Now, we're still talking in terms of milliseconds, but it adds up. Some people perceive and are affected by it more than others. Many people, and I, can adjust to it, as a normal part of adjusting to a new game. But I think it'll be more of an issue this next gen as more games hit 60fps.

You talk about the input lag a lot, Turtle, but I don't think that's it.  I don't have any problems doing any of the other action stuff the game requires of me.  I just don't think shooting is ND's forte.  I also think that their arrogance might keep them from studying other games that can do those parts well to figure out how to improve them.
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« Reply #341 on: September 16, 2013, 01:21:48 AM »

Considering that ND's signature game style started as a mishmash of other games, not sure if arrogance is the right word for it. Every game has improved on the other, except maybe U3, which was done by the B team.

Shooting mechanics in an FPS involves many things, many of this seemed fine to me, except for one issue that I've identified and articulated to this discussion.

I say you should actually articulate exactly what those parts of the shooting are that you hate from ND and you think they're being arrogant about, and find exactly what you want them to change. Saying "shooting" is as nebulous as saying "moving" or "gameplay." You'd be surprised of other examples where a player base, feels something off and just doesn't know what it is exactly, and either get too general about it, or go off on wild tangents.

I've played through many games this year with a game designer's eye looking for the reasons why they work and don't work in areas. The "shooting" felt mostly fine to me except for input lag and framerate drops, two things which can subtly affect the shooting mechanics overall. The actual push button to shoot, the recoil, the rate of fire, the effect of hitting an enemy, the amount of hits to down an enemy, the use of other items, the movement, the freeform cover use, all felt fine to me. I've even gone and tried to suss out various timings, angles, and rate numbers to see if it can be recreated. However, being unable to hit because aiming issues, or say, because of input lag and frame issues, can definitely skew it.

Likewise, if all that it boils down is you don't like this style of shooting, that's fine. But every time it's always the same nebulous "shooting," and now, "arrogance."
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« Reply #342 on: September 16, 2013, 12:22:02 PM »

I have discussed the specifics of what doesn't work with the shooting many times earlier in this thread as have others, so I didn't feel the need to retread.  It's far from just a generic comment. 

Likewise, the arrogance isn't something that has been brought up for the first time, either.  Here's a nice article about it.  Arrogance is the right word for it.
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« Reply #343 on: September 16, 2013, 01:49:21 PM »

Maybe I just move in slow motion all the time, but I really noticed nothing wrong with the games performance.

After countless hours playing MP, I know lag when I see it and I know delays in input when I see it.  And this isn't an all in defense of the sacred cow that is Last of Us, I just honestly don't recall one instance of saying 'man that lagged out right there!'

Maybe my strategies were so good I never found myself in a situation where I had to react quickly.  Maybe that's your problem, Turtle.  icon_razz
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« Reply #344 on: September 16, 2013, 02:09:04 PM »

Maybe differences in display devices is causing the different lag impressions?
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« Reply #345 on: September 16, 2013, 03:32:27 PM »

I never noticed any input lag either. The game didn't seem any less responsive than other games I've played.
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« Reply #346 on: September 26, 2013, 09:15:21 PM »

alternate ending and some DLC news.
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« Reply #347 on: November 11, 2013, 10:19:46 PM »

There's supposed to be a SP DLC teaser this week on Spike TV Online coverage:

http://www.videogamer.com/ps3/the_last_of_us/news/the_last_of_us_story_dlc_to_be_revealed_during_ps4_all_access_livestream.html

Quote
The first footage of The Last of Us' story DLC will be revealed during Friday morning's PlayStation 4 All Access launch event, show host Geoff Keighley has announced.

The footage will be shown live on Spike TV and online, alongside other PlayStation 4 announcements.

The DLC is set to introduce a new character to The Last of Us universe and feature an "ambitious story with strong ties into the narrative of The Last of Us". The content is expected to release between December and January.
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« Reply #348 on: November 11, 2013, 11:16:34 PM »

It's totally a Drake crossover.
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« Reply #349 on: November 11, 2013, 11:19:32 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on November 11, 2013, 11:16:34 PM

It's totally a Drake crossover.

 drool drool drool drool drool drool drool
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« Reply #350 on: November 15, 2013, 04:12:30 AM »

SP DLC is a prequel staring Ellie and her friend "Left Behind"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6V0HNNHQK4
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« Reply #351 on: November 15, 2013, 04:33:23 AM »

Man, that's going to be interesting.

The feels man, the feels.
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« Reply #352 on: December 13, 2013, 06:00:00 PM »

The Last of Us Lego Game:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/12/13/lego-the-last-of-us-video-proves-someone-needs-to-make-this-game/
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« Reply #353 on: December 13, 2013, 06:07:17 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on December 13, 2013, 06:00:00 PM

Would play.
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« Reply #354 on: December 13, 2013, 07:50:43 PM »

Quote from: forgeforsaken on December 13, 2013, 06:07:17 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on December 13, 2013, 06:00:00 PM

Would play.
+1
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« Reply #355 on: December 17, 2013, 10:21:39 PM »

Lego Bonus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QYYbjKEm08
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« Reply #356 on: December 17, 2013, 11:10:40 PM »

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« Reply #357 on: December 23, 2013, 02:29:02 PM »

Finally.... Finally!! Got me a copy of this game. Better late than never! Will post impressions on Xmas.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #358 on: December 26, 2013, 08:02:21 PM »

I've already vocalized my distaste for this game, but seeing it receive so many GOTY awards is making me feel remorseful and want to go back and give it a second try. Hopefully one day we'll get a "definitive" version of it on the PS4 so I might have that opportunity (already gave my PS3 away to my brother).
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« Reply #359 on: December 27, 2013, 02:39:54 AM »

Just got this as well. Love the story elements but man those sneaking parts of the game, where you actually play, can get frustrating really quickly. One screw up and things can quickly go to pot and the next thing you know you're having to start over that section for the 5th time. But the story has me very interested so I'll be sticking with it.
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