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Author Topic: [Half Life 2] Well I just did that for nothing!  (Read 2374 times)
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CeeKay
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« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2008, 04:09:29 PM »

so, who's going for the Gnome achievement in episode 2?
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« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2008, 04:14:27 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 25, 2008, 04:04:47 PM

So achievements obstruct self-determination?

They do discourage it.  A mixed shotgun/grav gun run doesn't "count" as much as a grav gun only run.  Likewise, a grav gun run to the end of the game doesn't "count" for anything extra, so why bother?  Just do the gnome run everyone other achievement completionist is doing if you want a challenge on a replay.
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« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2008, 05:05:55 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 25, 2008, 04:09:29 PM

so, who's going for the Gnome achievement in episode 2?

While I don't completely agree with Wonderpug's achievement grumpiness, I see his point.  Developers can take achievements too far.  From what I understand, the Gnome achievement is a perfect example.  I enjoyed the Sandtraps achievement (it's how I would have played anyway) and the Ravenholm one (I think playing through with a grav gun was much cooler than with a shotgun, persoanlly...I could always use the shotgun on a zombie later in the game).  I won't be going for the gnome.

However, I think the value of an achievement can give you an idea of how much a pain in the ass it's going to be.  Sometimes even the in-game description will tell you you will probably want to avoid it.  Like "Seriously..." in Gears of War (10,000 people killed in deathmatch) or The Club's "No, Seriously..." (10,001 people killed).
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« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2008, 06:28:05 PM »

Semi-related:  I played enough of Ghost Recon: Advanced Warrior that I got the 10k kills achievement.
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« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2008, 06:31:04 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 25, 2008, 04:09:29 PM

so, who's going for the Gnome achievement in episode 2?

Went for it and got on in the PC version. Its actually not as much of a bitch as you'd think if you know the levels. Keeping the gnome on the car sucks more than a lot though and takes a lot of patience. If you have nothing better to do though it's a fun challenge.
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« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2008, 06:38:17 PM »

I might go for the gnome if I play through again, someday, but that's not a first time through challenge, from what I've heard.
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« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2008, 07:47:30 PM »

before my 360 broke, and before i sent OB back, i attempted for a little while to get the gnome ach in ep 2.  however, i let it get out of my sight and couldn't backtrack, so i just said to hell with it and went on.  when i get around to going through again, i don't think i'll even bother with it. 

i did reload early on in hl2 to get both versions of the trash can man ach points.  easy as pie, even though a bit shallow.
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Glycerine
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« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2008, 08:04:22 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on March 25, 2008, 03:46:15 PM

So here we have two people, Glycerine and Teggy, who did the grav gun thing on their first run through Ravenholm.  (I'm making an assumption for Glycerine since he said he got the achievement and doesn't replay to get achievements he missed.)

On their first and possibly only run through Ravenholm, both of them didn't once get to blast zombies with a shotgun.  It's a really fun game experience, and neither one of them got to do it.

I played through most of the game on the PC years ago, and had plenty of opportunities to blast zombies with the shotgun.  This was my first and only run through the on 360.

Quote
But besides the fun of the shotgun, there's the developer's intentions for the game.  The designers clearly played up the shotgun vs. zombie fun, not only by making the weapon available for the first time in Ravenholm, but by having it's arrival heralded by Father Gregorio's "Let me get you a more suitable weapon."  Great gaming moment, and yet both Teggy and Glycerine immediately stuffed the more suitable weapon in their pocket because they were playing by the achievement how-to-play checklist.

And your point is?  What makes the shotgun more suitable?  I remember playing that level on the PC and exhausting the shotgun ammo way before I was any where near the end.  Granted, you do find more, but the GravGun doesn't require shells and thus can be used as many times as necessary to get the job done.  Besides, I really got a kick out of slicing zombies in half with the plethora of saw blades just laying around the level.  To me, that was much more fun than blasting away with the shotgun, which was pretty much the same as every other game all the way back to the original Doom.

Quote
Yes, the designers also made the level a grav gun playground.  But that should just be an available option of how to approach the level instead of the standard way to run through.  Indeed if you look at Gamefaqs there's a 2005 FAQ on how to play through to the end of the game with just the grav gun, so people have certainly already opted to have fun that way.  The difference is that the 2005 players chose to ignore the shotgun moment out of their own volition, not because they had a checklist on how to play each level 'properly' for the most efficient point collection.

Who said it was the standard way to run through it?  To be honest, after playing the same level on PC, I didn't think there was any way in hell I could make it all the way to the end with just the GravGun.  It sounded like something fun to try, especially since I hardly ever used the damn thing before.  Much to my delight, I discovered all kinds of ways to deal death with ordinary objects.  In the end, I actually enjoyed the experience much more than running through and blasting everything in site with whatever gun I happened to have ammo for.

Quote
And yes, Glycerine and Teggy weren't forced to play the way they did.  But they were enticed by the achievements as they are designed to entice, and if someone wants achievements it seems quite natural to want to collect as many as you can on your first run through to collect them more efficiently.  Thus, the achievements become the game, or at least the instructions on how to play the game.  You lose both the game creator's vision for a scenario like Ravenholm as well as the freedom to find your own path.

If they really were the game than I'd have 1000/1000 score on TMNT, or some other asstastic game with easy achievements.  As it stands now, the only ones I have for TMNT are from my 9 year old who absolutely loved the game.  Achievements for me are like a history of my gaming accomplishments, I can look back and remember getting my first ever for Dead Rising.  Looking through any particular game on my list allows me to fondly reminisce a bit about my play through.  They also, at least when they are inventive and well thought out, invite you to try and do some things you might not have thought of.  Your assumptions, while intelligent and well communicated, are way off.

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« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 08:11:06 PM by Glycerine » Logged

whiteboyskim
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« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2008, 08:50:12 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 25, 2008, 06:38:17 PM

I might go for the gnome if I play through again, someday, but that's not a first time through challenge, from what I've heard.

Oh hell no. If you go for that one achievement then that's what your play-through is all about. Nothing else. You need to know what happens when and where. For example:
Spoiler for Hiden:
The whole antlion sequence. Place the gnome back behind the elevator before the sequence starts and pick it up before you leave. Do not carry it with you down into the mines at all.
Would you know that prior to playing the first time through? Nope. Again, it's fun that it's there and provides replay value. That's all. Achievements are, IMO, for replay value alone. If the game is story heavy then there's no reason to go for the crazier ones intentionally the first time through.
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« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2008, 04:24:11 AM »

As a follow up to this thread, since I am a glutton for punishment, I decided to go for "The One Free Bullet" achievement on my first playthrough of Episode 1. This time, I got it. I would occasionally itch to use a gun, but it was actually fun, as it added a lot of tension.  Thank goodness that

Spoiler for Hiden:
Alyx can't be killed, because that would make it a lot less fun to do.
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