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Author Topic: [cg review: metal gear acid] fanboy response  (Read 2436 times)
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semiconscious
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« on: April 19, 2005, 04:26:34 PM »

sheeesh! you go away for a long weekend, & come back to find the most fun you've ever had with a psp get the 'unrefined ore' treatment?! why not just roll up a newspaper & hit me on the nose?!...

but,... once i stopped hyper-ventilating, it occurred to me that maybe, just maybe, this so-called 'reviewer' wasn't all that wrong after all, to the extent that my love/worship of mga is seriously predicated on the fact that, having sold my soul to the mgs franchise, i've never really thought of the game the way i should, which is as a free-standing entity that, like any other game, should be judged on it's own merits alone. &, looked at that way, yeah, there are indeed a number of (gasp!) shortcomings...

for instance, the cards themselves, which comprise a nice little trip down mgs memory lane (what with the little clips & all) & add a large amount of substance (so to speak) to what goes on. well, if this's your first/only mg experience, while kinda entertaining, that really isn't gonna work all that well, now is it? - more like lots of 'what the hell's that all about?'. same thing for the card gameplay itself - a really cool variation of a classic tune to my snake-infested ears, but as a stand-alone intro to the world of mg, would it motivate someone to check out the other games? - truth to tell, quite possibly less so than any of the others (including the gbc one) - & whoever did would be hella surprised for sure at the difference...

i guess what i'm saying is, i'm seeing & enjoying mga through camo-colored glasses, as a real treat & a unique 'gift' to an already-existing fanbase, & that's not really a valid premise for judging any game (you'd think i'd know that by now). & so, much as it pains me, yes, cg reviewer, you do make a number of valid points (tho i personally didn't have any real camera problems to speak of, & didn't find the in-mission codec calls all that jarring), & i apologize for all the hateful things that ran through my mind before chilling out smile ...
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TheMissingLink
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2005, 05:10:19 PM »

I'm glad you gave controls a 65/100 -  it deserves a major knock for the whole X=cancel, O=confirm deal.  When I get done playing that game, I'll find myself doing that in other games and it screws me all up.

I don't agree with your assessment that the camera controls are crappy - you can rotate the map with the shoulder, and do a little movement of the camera with the nub.  Hit triangle and you can check out the whole map.  I think they are just fine.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2005, 05:13:46 PM »

Quote from: "semiconcious"
for instance, the cards themselves, which comprise a nice little trip down mgs memory lane (what with the little clips & all) & add a large amount of substance (so to speak) to what goes on. well, if this's your first/only mg experience, while kinda entertaining, that really isn't gonna work all that well, now is it?


Actually I've seen quite a few people who *hate* the traditional MGS games that really love MGA thanks to its unique and deep gameplay.
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2005, 05:31:21 PM »

Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
I'm glad you gave controls a 65/100 -  it deserves a major knock for the whole X=cancel, O=confirm deal.

Every MGS game has used that scheme.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2005, 05:41:51 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
I'm glad you gave controls a 65/100 -  it deserves a major knock for the whole X=cancel, O=confirm deal.

Every MGS game has used that scheme.


And Zone of Enders 1 & 2 IIRC.
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semiconscious
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2005, 06:24:02 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "TheMissingLink"
I'm glad you gave controls a 65/100 -  it deserves a major knock for the whole X=cancel, O=confirm deal.

Every MGS game has used that scheme.


correct (tho i guess this's another example of 'unintuitiveness' for first timers? - help me here, i'm still trying hard to see things from the reviewer's pov smile )...

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Actually I've seen quite a few people who *hate* the traditional MGS games that really love MGA thanks to its unique and deep gameplay.


tho i can somewhat understand these sad individuals (i mean, i like the card thing as well, but c'mon!...), i'm still left wondering what people unfamiliar with their source make of the character card animations - i'm thinking there's gotta be a little less 'ooomph!' & a lot more 'hunh?' (maybe they like that?)...
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Dimmona
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2005, 06:39:06 PM »

It still takes me 5 minutes to load a saved game in MGS3 just because I keep swapping X/O.  WTH were they thinking...
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Dreamshadow
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2005, 06:50:45 PM »

Sveral RPGs has used that, Xenosaga being one of them as well.  I believe that in Japan, Circle is the common selection button and X is cancel.  But here in NA, it's the other way around.
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2005, 07:13:48 PM »

Quote from: "Dreamshadow"
Sveral RPGs has used that, Xenosaga being one of them as well.  I believe that in Japan, Circle is the common selection button and X is cancel.  But here in NA, it's the other way around.

That is correct sir.  The Japanese's "confirm" button is mapped on the circle button typically.

Count me in the "never really played a MGA game but enjoys MGA" crowd.  I played a bit of MGS1 on the PC, but besides that, never played any other MGS game.  I know the cast of characters pretty well because TML usually fills me in if I don't know a character, because he's played every MGS game.
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2005, 07:50:53 PM »

I can't see how the X/O issue is an 'issue' at all.  After one or two times of hitting X instead of O, I started hitting O instead of X.

Different games have different controls.  End of line.
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flyinj
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2005, 09:09:14 PM »

Liked MGS1, hated the next two...

And I love MGA. It's a fantastic game... an incredible mix of MtG and Xcom. Not only that, but designed very tightly so the mix works almost flawlessly.

The CG review is a bit off in my opinion... but then again, a lot of people just can't get into these strange japanese SRPGs.
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Dimmona
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2005, 09:22:33 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"


Different games have different controls.  End of line.


Except that you have 99% of games using one default control scheme (i.e. A = confirm, B = cancel), and one other game that has them inverted.  

Retarded.  End of line.
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semiconscious
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2005, 10:15:41 PM »

Quote from: "Dimmona"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"


Different games have different controls.  End of line.


Except that you have 99% of games using one default control scheme (i.e. A = confirm, B = cancel), and one other game that has them inverted.  

Retarded.  End of line.


but what if that game is just so... so... 'special'? slywink ...


never knew about the japanese angle - interesting...
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2005, 11:13:15 PM »

Quote from: "Dimmona"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"


Different games have different controls.  End of line.


Except that you have 99% of games using one default control scheme (i.e. A = confirm, B = cancel), and one other game that has them inverted.  

Retarded.  End of line.

I don't remember Mercenaries getting panned for mapping 'Jump' to O.  Ratchet and Clank has mapped it to 'X' forever.  Why didn't Mercenaries?

Look, if the controls get in the way of smooth, enjoyable gameplay, that's the time to pan them (I'm looking at you, Gothic).  If the controls are getting in the way becase you're unwilling to learn them, that's another.

No one got pissed about O being used for accept in MGS1-3, so why do you get upset now?   :roll:
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2005, 10:41:56 PM »

Gothic's controls weren't all that bad...the worst issue was a lack of documentation as to how they worked.

Anyway, back on track. I don't have a PSP (or any console). But there are several games out that have me interested in getting one. MGA is one of them and I have zero experience with the franchise. It looks like it ought to be a fun strategy game that you don't have to be a tactical genius to play.

I'm very much interested in Lumines, Smart Bomb, Wipeout Pure and some of the upcoming stuff (GT4P e.g.)
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2005, 11:44:38 PM »

The MGA on CG isn't very well done.  It is hard to get a real sense of the play  mechanics for the game, or what works.  Some of the things, like the mentioned O-X are talked about to much.  Half the PS2 games I play use that convention, and most RPGs, like the Final Fantasy games.  It seemed like the reviewer just was expecting something Metal Gear Solid 4.

One of the negatives being the conversations that interrupt you while moving.  They happen fairly rarely, and I've never been compromised because of them.  Usually they happen in transition areas.

I'll agree that the camera angles can suck though.  It happens very rarely, but sometimes you just can't see your characters, and that isn't fun.
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2005, 12:45:14 AM »

Hey Guys - sorry for the lateness of my response to all your guys wonderful posts about my review. I finished up the review at the beginning of the week and have been swamped working on other projects all week.

First off - let me express my gratitude at how generous you all have been even if you disagreed with the rating that I gave MG:Acid. I especially loved some of semiconscious's analogies. "Hitting you on the nose with a rolled up newspaper" gave me a good laugh.

Looking over your guys responses and also at some of the other reviews for the game across the net - it really looks like opinions about the game are all over the map.  

I think the game did a number of things right, yet fumbled the ball in a few places - but I can certainly appreciate and see where others could and have disagreed.

I marked the controls down because I thought they were unintuitive. With the PSP I was constantly switching games in the system and so the switch of suddenly have my action / confirm button now cancel the move I just selected got to be increasingly irritating.

I understand the argument that it's how they do it in japan but this isn't a game that I had imported - so the button layout could have been swapped to something that american gamers are going to naturally expect.  A lot of game designers have defined a good game as one that a person could just be able to pick up and enjoy. Since both myself and everyone that I let try out the PSP when Metal Gear was playing all had issues with that aspect of the control scheme I felt it was justified to mark it down for not being intuitive.

As for camera controls there were several occasions during the game where an upper level blocked a portion of my view of the surrounding and  I had to shift the camera angle around and around - finally stopping on the angle that blocked my view the least. Perhaps other players didn't encounter the issues because they kept their characters in the middle of the walkways while I tried to keep close to the walls most of the time.  Other than that I'm not sure why some people would agree with me about the camera controls and some people say that they didn't have any issues.

Finally I think a few people mentioned some puzzlement about my complaint about the conversations interrupting a move. Scott is right that they mainly happened around transitions (i.e. going through a gate, going up a level, etc) - however there were a number of ones that happened during a level. My biggest complaint with these is that the communication not only interrupted your move but that it also canceled any further movement that you were supposed to make on that move.  This little glitch caused me to die on at least 2 occasions (once because it made me stop right where a guard discovered me on his next turn whereas my full move would have had me duck into a side hallway, and a second time where I set an explosive trap for a guard and then was moving backwards outside of the pending blast radius - when a communication made me stop and die in the explosion - I got so mad after that I had to quit playing the game for the day)

I did enjoy playing Metal Gear and if nothing else it made me want to go back and buy a used copy of the original to play again.

I really enjoyed reading your guys discussion of the game - makes me wish we could have more discussion about the reviews. After all - the review was just one persons opinion.  Maybe I should code in something that would let your guys post your opinions alongside of the reviews that we write here. Get more of a group feel for a game.
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2005, 01:31:00 AM »

Quote
however there were a number of ones that happened during a level. My biggest complaint with these is that the communication not only interrupted your move but that it also canceled any further movement that you were supposed to make on that move.


There's actually a reason for this.  Several times in the game those intermissions provide you with new tasking or information that might make you want to change your current plan.  I know there were several times where I was happy that it had reset my actions.  There were also a couple of times I would like to have carried out the original action too, but the design seemed to be a fair compromise.
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2005, 02:21:12 AM »

Cool response DarkEl.  Reviews really are all over the map.  Thought about it more, and the game has a lot of promise, but not perfect.  One big complaint I have is that I'm tired of gray office buildings, and hall after hall.  Another one is that it is tiresome to get to a door and half to keep discarding till the right passcard comes up, or the C4, etc.   Some of the cards really seem to expensive for what they do, and aren't really balanced well.  

Definitely lots of flaws, but a fun game.  I guess one reason I enjoy it, is that it isn't a watered down port of a PS2 game, but something unique on the PSP.
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2005, 03:21:06 AM »

DarkEl - I know exactly what you're talking about when you're halted in the middle of a move and an intermission happens.  And then, basically, your plan of "going to a certain spot" is kinda mucked because they stopped you due to an intermission.  Kinda bothersome, I agree.
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semiconscious
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« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2005, 02:28:58 PM »

Quote from: "DarkEL"
First off - let me express my gratitude at how generous you all have been even if you disagreed with the rating that I gave MG:Acid. I especially loved some of semiconscious's analogies. "Hitting you on the nose with a rolled up newspaper" gave me a good laugh.


hehheh...

as i said, your 'objective' view of the game was in many ways more appropriate than mine...

if you're thinking of re-visiting mgs, i'd strongly recommend (if you've got a cube) twin snakes. i played it (for the first time) after finishing snake eater, & it's a real treat if you've already done the ps version...
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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2005, 06:03:01 AM »

On the whole "Press O to Confirm thing"...

I was just reading a comment from a journalist that "X" is supposed to be mandatory by Sony to be the confirm button in America so its not just a practice but an actual standard.

But some companies/developers seem to be able to slide by- all Kojima games and Namco also got a pass on it for Xenosaga.
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2005, 10:09:35 AM »

Just wanted to chime in I was pleasantly surprised by yet another twist in the story - man, really good stuff.  I also hit the jackpot with getting rare cards tonight - I got about 3 new rare cards.  Fantastic stuff biggrin
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« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2005, 08:19:37 PM »

What a quirky boss battle...
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« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2005, 04:00:39 AM »

I just fired this up for the fiirst time tonight and...WOW.
Maybe I'm easy to please, but to me, the presentation of MGA is simply stunning. I like the music I've heard so far and just love the graphics.

I haven't figured out what the heck I'm doing yet (my first attempt to get through the gate was a miserable failure as when I used the "knock" on the wall, the guy came right to me....suppose I should do that BEFORE I move, eh?

Really looks like this will be fun.
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