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Author Topic: (360 and PS3) No Love for the Release Version of Civ: Revolution?  (Read 2959 times)
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Dante Rising
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« on: July 12, 2008, 02:27:12 AM »

I'm surprised people aren't more enthusiastic about the release of Civ for the consoles. I thought the demo gave a clear and very positive idea of what the actual game would be like.

Here are a couple of my impressions after three marathon sessions:

+Charming Graphics
+VERY Addictive Gameplay
+Strong AI above "King" difficulty level
+Much easier to dive into, in comparison to its PC forefathers

-NO hotseat (this is an absolute shame)
-No ability to specifically choose which nations will be your adversaries
-Everything moves slightly too fast. Unlike the PC version, many wonders have very limited use because they are canceled out so quickly by higher technologies. Likewise, the entire research table can be very quickly completed, outdating various units almost before you had a chance to create them.
-World feels too "cramped" (I'll often discover one or two other nations within the first 10 moves)

Without a doubt the game still maintains the addictive quality if the Civilization. However, much of the leisurely pace of the original titles are completely lost here. Civ:Rev is a constant scramble, and everything moves at warp speed. It is most definitely "Civ Lite", and while it is a refreshing change of pace, much of the meat has been completely scrapped. Diplomacy, city maintenance and and worker tasks have been  distilled. Combat is omni-present.

I do enjoy the way combat plays out. It can be VERY difficult to take an enemy city on the higher levels. As I moved in for the kill on Moscow, the game did an excellent job of fortifying its defenses as I tightened the noose. Neighboring cities were completely hardened, and it took a full set of warships, bombers, artillery, infantry and tanks to actually take the final prize. When I surrounded Moscow it had 5 complete armies, all elite, fully fortified, there to hold me off. They finally fell, but not before launching a nuke assault as a final kiss goodbye on Washington.

If the game was just slightly less....frantic and streamlined....it would be a remarkable achievement. As it stands, it is merely a very good game. smile
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 05:29:26 PM »

I'm on my third game right now on the 360 and I think they did a really great job with it.  Sure,  its fast paced, but I like it as a reasonably quick alternative to Civ IV. It is a little weird at times because they've brought back some concepts from Civ II(Leonardo's Workshop, for one), but I like it. I imagine I'll play the heck out of it this summer and then probably return to Civ IV at some point. 
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 05:58:44 PM »

I picked it up for 360 but unfortunately I have very little time to play these days.  Hopefully will get around to starting a game tomorrow.
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2008, 06:30:58 PM »

Quote from: J.M. Diller on July 12, 2008, 05:29:26 PM

I'm on my third game right now on the 360 and I think they did a really great job with it.  Sure,  its fast paced, but I like it as a reasonably quick alternative to Civ IV. It is a little weird at times because they've brought back some concepts from Civ II(Leonardo's Workshop, for one), but I like it. I imagine I'll play the heck out of it this summer and then probably return to Civ IV at some point. 

A big, fat, huge +1.  I've played a couple games and it's great.  They did a fantastic job of streamlining it for the console.  Now I can Civ (yes it's a verb) on my couch with a six pack and bring the nuke hammer down on anyone ignorant enough to cross my path.  icon_twisted

I decided to start up a new game around 11:30 last night to go for a Tech victory.  When I next looked up it was 3am.  So I was certainly pulled in with the good ol' "one more turn" draw.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 06:40:41 PM by Jancelot » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 06:46:56 PM »

I bought both the 360 and DS versions last Thursday.  Unfortunatly I haven't had time to play either one yet.   icon_cry

Hopefully I'll get a few games in this weekend.
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 10:35:42 PM »

I got the 360 version and like what I see so far.  I didn't realize how small the map is until my galley moved off the west edge and emerged on the east edge after only 5 turns of heading west.
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 10:56:22 PM »

Picked up my copy this afternoon, should have a few thoughts later tonight.

EDIT:  Just finished my first game, and my first impressions are...that the game is freaking brilliant.  I always thought the PC version took way too long, and this simplified version is exactly what I was looking for.  Holy crap, that was fun.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 01:25:56 AM by Gratch » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2008, 06:31:30 AM »

Sounds like this is a game for people who didn't like the length of a regular Civ game.  I personally feel that a Civ game should be long personally.  I mean, after all you are playing from stone age to space age!!  I tried the demo for the PS3 and unfortunately it didn't do a damn thing for me at all.  Perhaps I didn't give it a fair chance as I only played it once and then deleted it.
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 02:28:07 PM »

I don't think I've ever finished a game of Civ in my whole life.  This may be just what the doc ordered, but I have a feeling I'll get it and play it once.
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2008, 06:47:22 PM »

Quote from: Jancelot on July 12, 2008, 06:30:58 PM

Quote from: J.M. Diller on July 12, 2008, 05:29:26 PM

I'm on my third game right now on the 360 and I think they did a really great job with it.  Sure,  its fast paced, but I like it as a reasonably quick alternative to Civ IV. It is a little weird at times because they've brought back some concepts from Civ II(Leonardo's Workshop, for one), but I like it. I imagine I'll play the heck out of it this summer and then probably return to Civ IV at some point. 

A big, fat, huge +1.  I've played a couple games and it's great.  They did a fantastic job of streamlining it for the console.  Now I can Civ (yes it's a verb) on my couch with a six pack and bring the nuke hammer down on anyone ignorant enough to cross my path.  icon_twisted

I decided to start up a new game around 11:30 last night to go for a Tech victory.  When I next looked up it was 3am.  So I was certainly pulled in with the good ol' "one more turn" draw.

Co-Sign

I can play this game out in 3-4hrs compared to the couple of days it takes the pc version which I enjoy for its deepness. The console version seems to be more based on war, which is good.
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2008, 08:05:22 PM »

Quote from: JuniorDan on July 13, 2008, 06:47:22 PM

Quote from: Jancelot on July 12, 2008, 06:30:58 PM

Quote from: J.M. Diller on July 12, 2008, 05:29:26 PM

I'm on my third game right now on the 360 and I think they did a really great job with it.  Sure,  its fast paced, but I like it as a reasonably quick alternative to Civ IV. It is a little weird at times because they've brought back some concepts from Civ II(Leonardo's Workshop, for one), but I like it. I imagine I'll play the heck out of it this summer and then probably return to Civ IV at some point. 

A big, fat, huge +1.  I've played a couple games and it's great.  They did a fantastic job of streamlining it for the console.  Now I can Civ (yes it's a verb) on my couch with a six pack and bring the nuke hammer down on anyone ignorant enough to cross my path.  icon_twisted

I decided to start up a new game around 11:30 last night to go for a Tech victory.  When I next looked up it was 3am.  So I was certainly pulled in with the good ol' "one more turn" draw.

Co-Sign

I can play this game out in 3-4hrs compared to the couple of days it takes the pc version which I enjoy for its deepness. The console version seems to be more based on war, which is good.

The new game is definitely more focused on war. It is almost impossible to stay at peace with the AI for any length of time, especially if they are near your border. Even if you significantly outmatch them in firepower, they will wage war on you.

There is one other point that doesn't bother me that may irk other players, especially those of the normal franchise. If you recall, Civ veterans often complained about the AI "bug" where an archer could defeat a tank. It really wasn't too common in the PC versions, but it did happen. In Civ: Rev it happens constantly. I'm not saying it is a bad thing, but be aware that it does happen often, especially if the player does not prepare well. The reason:

Example-

An attacking tank, I believe, has a basic rating of 9/6. (offense-defense)
A defending riflemen has a rating of 4/3.
But that rifleman can be in a city on a hill (50% bonus) and behind city walls (50% bonus), veteran (50% bonus), entrenched (100% bonus), part of a Fundamentalist government (+1 attack) etc. Suddenly that rifleman is significantly more powerful than the tank.

So you can and will see archers take out tanks or even bombers. Of course, the attacker can nullify some of these bonuses by making veteran units, stacking armies, bringing in naval support, etc.

I'm definitely loving the game, but I still think it travels through the Ages too quickly. This becomes more apparent on higher difficulties where the AI makes better use of its engines of war. You cab barely have finished creating your pikemen armies and you'll already have completed researching tanks. Likewise, an enemy Nation can complete the United Nations wonder in under 10 turns, thereby winning by diplomacy. In PC version you had time to react and mount an offensive against the AI before the Wonder could be completed. In Civ:Rev, a Wonder can be built or bought far too quickly.

That is my only real significant complaint in the game. I find everything else to be remarkably well done. But the game really should have been about 30 minutes to an hour longer, in order to stretch out the Ages and technology acquisitions.

Unlike some of the more recent PC games, supposedly Sid Meier had a significant hand in this console version. If so he definitely hasn't lost his touch as one of the "gaming gods". Civilization:Revolution is the finest strategy game available on the current generation of consoles.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 08:09:35 PM by Dante Rising » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2008, 12:34:37 AM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on July 13, 2008, 08:05:22 PM

Unlike some of the more recent PC games, supposedly Sid Meier had a significant hand in this console version. If so he definitely hasn't lost his touch as one of the "gaming gods". Civilization:Revolution is the finest strategy game available on the current generation of consoles.

Second that. I don't think Civ:Rev will stop me from playing CivIV, but it definitely has that "one-more-turn" quality.

Yes things move a little too fast, and no, there isn't as much control for those of us used to the PC version(s), but it's still a great game in it's own right. I'm sure they're trying to cast a broader net and I feel that the game succeeds remarkably. I was a little skeptical given the graphics and the Sim/Pirate-ish spoken by the in-game characters, but in the end it's still Civilizationthumbsup
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2008, 07:05:57 AM »

The more I play this game the more I agree with everyone here.  It's not a replacement for Civ4, but very nicely done nonetheless.  I hate to bring the King Kong of subjective language out, but I have "fun" when I play it.

It does move very quickly through the ages so I really can't comment on how I feel about it yet.  Diplomacy seems to boil down to other civs demanding tech or money from you and declaring war if you refuse.  As I start out I know that I need to prepare a good defensive front as at least one civ will be at nigh constant war with me.

Bottom line is that it is a great starting point and I hope that it sells well so that we see sequels down the line with some tweaks and a little more depth added in.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 04:28:40 PM by Jancelot » Logged
Dante Rising
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 07:10:08 AM »

Quote from: Jancelot on July 17, 2008, 07:05:57 AM

Bottom line is that it is a great starting point and I hope that it sells well so that we see sequels down the line with some tweaks and a little more depth added in.

A friend of mine who works at Gamestop said that it absolutely bombed in his region. The only version that did even remotely well was the DS iteration. I'm hoping his area is not indicative of sales in general.
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2008, 01:25:53 PM »

I am having a lot of trouble getting a cultural victory on King difficulty. It just seems like that lags behind everything else. The closest I ever got was a couple days ago. I was building the United Nations wonder, but the game said that the game would end after 5 more turns, and whoever had the highest score would get a domination victory. I needed 7 more turns to build the United Nations and win the game  icon_mad

Any advice on how to get this type of victory?
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2008, 02:14:57 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 13, 2008, 02:28:07 PM

I don't think I've ever finished a game of Civ in my whole life.  This may be just what the doc ordered, but I have a feeling I'll get it and play it once.

Wow, this thread has just about sold me on getting this game.  Bullwinkle's comment is exactly how I feel about CIV games.  I have yet to buy the console version because of that fact.  I just don't like long civ games anymore because I don't have the time dedicated for 2+hour sessions.  I am about to pull the trigger.  Thanks for the impressions.
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2008, 02:40:45 PM »

Quote from: Torfish on July 17, 2008, 02:14:57 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 13, 2008, 02:28:07 PM

I don't think I've ever finished a game of Civ in my whole life.  This may be just what the doc ordered, but I have a feeling I'll get it and play it once.

Wow, this thread has just about sold me on getting this game.  Bullwinkle's comment is exactly how I feel about CIV games.  I have yet to buy the console version because of that fact.  I just don't like long civ games anymore because I don't have the time dedicated for 2+hour sessions.  I am about to pull the trigger.  Thanks for the impressions.

Please let me know how it goes for you.  I would have bought it this week, but my Best Buy has turned into the worst store as far as getting games in.  I had a great set of coupons, too.
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2008, 02:46:42 PM »

Quote from: Torfish on July 17, 2008, 02:14:57 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 13, 2008, 02:28:07 PM

I don't think I've ever finished a game of Civ in my whole life.  This may be just what the doc ordered, but I have a feeling I'll get it and play it once.

Wow, this thread has just about sold me on getting this game.  Bullwinkle's comment is exactly how I feel about CIV games.  I have yet to buy the console version because of that fact.  I just don't like long civ games anymore because I don't have the time dedicated for 2+hour sessions.  I am about to pull the trigger.  Thanks for the impressions.

I've been having an absolute blast with the 360 version.  The shorter sessions (I won with an economic victory in about 2 hours last night) are perfect, as I always lost interest in Civ IV towards the end of the game.  There are a few minor problems (the biggest being the overly hostile AI), but I think I actually prefer this simplified version to the PC variety.   The control scheme is nearly perfect, and it really is a lot of fun.
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2008, 02:55:36 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on July 17, 2008, 01:25:53 PM

I am having a lot of trouble getting a cultural victory on King difficulty. It just seems like that lags behind everything else. The closest I ever got was a couple days ago. I was building the United Nations wonder, but the game said that the game would end after 5 more turns, and whoever had the highest score would get a domination victory. I needed 7 more turns to build the United Nations and win the game  icon_mad

Any advice on how to get this type of victory?

Raise your culture faster... I had no problems getting the UN built. I'd suggest developing the right tech stuff and wonders (Hollywood, for example, helps convert).

I also use a trio of spies on other people's capitols (even if they are at peace) to steal influential people. They almost always travel by roads or boats so they're less likely to be captured.
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2008, 03:43:10 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on July 17, 2008, 01:25:53 PM

I am having a lot of trouble getting a cultural victory on King difficulty. It just seems like that lags behind everything else. The closest I ever got was a couple days ago. I was building the United Nations wonder, but the game said that the game would end after 5 more turns, and whoever had the highest score would get a domination victory. I needed 7 more turns to build the United Nations and win the game  icon_mad

Any advice on how to get this type of victory?

High population and cultural buildings are the key elements.  The culture gained from temples and cathedrals is per unit of population, so when you're placing settlers make sure there's plenty of apples available in the surrounding fat cross.  Build those courthouses quick as you can so you can gain access to the rest of the food producing tiles, and be sure to build other structures that will help grow the population quickly, like granaries, harbors, and aqueducts.

Remember, unlike other Civs the granary in CivRev boosts the food from plains instead of letting you keep half your food reserves after growth.  I don't know about you guys but that one's taking forever for me to 'unlearn what I have learned.'
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2008, 08:48:06 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on July 17, 2008, 03:43:10 PM

  I don't know about you guys but that one's taking forever for me to 'unlearn what I have learned.'

This is an important point, especially if you have played a lot of PC Civ(s). You really need to read those descriptions and see what buildings/advances/wonders/etc. will actually bring you. It ain't necessarily what you think eek

But even with having to re-learn Civilization, it's still just a lot of fun to play!

And for those of you who like Civ it but lose interest (PC version), or have never finished a game..., you will finish this. And you'll probably want to start over as soon as you do.
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2008, 11:54:51 PM »


Just in case, I'm looking to play some team Civ tonight, either 2v2 or 2vAi...let me know.
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2008, 01:18:50 PM »

Has anyone seen a listing of what each difficulty level adds or changes?  I'm curious when the AI starts getting resource boosts, and if they start getting tweaks to their combat rolls.  The former I could take in light doses, but the latter I want to completely avoid if it exists.
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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2008, 04:45:31 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on July 18, 2008, 01:18:50 PM

Has anyone seen a listing of what each difficulty level adds or changes?  I'm curious when the AI starts getting resource boosts, and if they start getting tweaks to their combat rolls.  The former I could take in light doses, but the latter I want to completely avoid if it exists.

After I finally got the culture victory on King difficulty (thank you Roman 1/2 price wonders), I bumped the difficulty up to Emperor and tried a Zulu campaign with focus on domination. I was able to destroy Washington with a single warrior army. The next turn I found Rome, just a few tiles over from Washington. I was able to take them out fairly easily, with the Warrior Army, a Horsemen Army, and a Catapult Army. I also used a great person to flip their second city.

As soon as I finished up Rome, the Germans and French decided to make themselves known. The French at this time were already closing in on a culture victory, needing just 10 more great people, flipped cities, or wonders. The Germans immediately declared war on me and started sending wave after wave of Legion armies at me. By this point they had at least 4 cities, two of which were on choke points that could quickly grow and produce armies. They also were flying through the tech tree, and were coming at me with cannons and knights while I still had archers, catapults, and horsemen. At the same time, the French started pumping out wonders, but it didn't appear like the Germans were pushing towards them at all. It was as if all of their energy was on me.

So, from the half game I played, it looks like research and combat was the same. The Germans were more advanced than me because they had bigger cities than I did, and most of my cities were focused on gold production. Also, the German perk is to automatically upgrade elite units, which is most likely why they were able to come at me with these upgraded armies as soon as they were available. What changed was the strategy. City placement seemed better, and the armies did a good job sieging cities and using the terrain to their advantage.
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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2008, 05:59:49 PM »

Quote from: Dante Rising on July 17, 2008, 07:10:08 AM

Quote from: Jancelot on July 17, 2008, 07:05:57 AM

Bottom line is that it is a great starting point and I hope that it sells well so that we see sequels down the line with some tweaks and a little more depth added in.

A friend of mine who works at Gamestop said that it absolutely bombed in his region. The only version that did even remotely well was the DS iteration. I'm hoping his area is not indicative of sales in general.

I saw on CivFanatics.com that the game has sold out here in the U.S. I also saw yesterday somewhere that the game has been the best selling 360 game on Amazon since it came out. That probably dropped though after NCAA came out, but it is still good.
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« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2008, 06:21:54 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on July 18, 2008, 05:59:49 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on July 17, 2008, 07:10:08 AM

Quote from: Jancelot on July 17, 2008, 07:05:57 AM

Bottom line is that it is a great starting point and I hope that it sells well so that we see sequels down the line with some tweaks and a little more depth added in.

A friend of mine who works at Gamestop said that it absolutely bombed in his region. The only version that did even remotely well was the DS iteration. I'm hoping his area is not indicative of sales in general.

I saw on CivFanatics.com that the game has sold out here in the U.S. I also saw yesterday somewhere that the game has been the best selling 360 game on Amazon since it came out. That probably dropped though after NCAA came out, but it is still good.

I finally found a copy at a Sam Goody store, their last copy too.  I've been spending the last 2 days searching for a copy.  All the Gamestops around here were sold out.

I will be firing it up tonight and all weekend.
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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2008, 08:29:23 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on July 18, 2008, 05:59:49 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on July 17, 2008, 07:10:08 AM

Quote from: Jancelot on July 17, 2008, 07:05:57 AM

Bottom line is that it is a great starting point and I hope that it sells well so that we see sequels down the line with some tweaks and a little more depth added in.

A friend of mine who works at Gamestop said that it absolutely bombed in his region. The only version that did even remotely well was the DS iteration. I'm hoping his area is not indicative of sales in general.

I saw on CivFanatics.com that the game has sold out here in the U.S. I also saw yesterday somewhere that the game has been the best selling 360 game on Amazon since it came out. That probably dropped though after NCAA came out, but it is still good.

Great news! unless that initial run was 20 copies.....

I really want to see an expansion, Civ:Rev 2, etc.
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« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2008, 10:27:00 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on July 18, 2008, 05:59:49 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on July 17, 2008, 07:10:08 AM

Quote from: Jancelot on July 17, 2008, 07:05:57 AM

Bottom line is that it is a great starting point and I hope that it sells well so that we see sequels down the line with some tweaks and a little more depth added in.

A friend of mine who works at Gamestop said that it absolutely bombed in his region. The only version that did even remotely well was the DS iteration. I'm hoping his area is not indicative of sales in general.

I saw on CivFanatics.com that the game has sold out here in the U.S. I also saw yesterday somewhere that the game has been the best selling 360 game on Amazon since it came out. That probably dropped though after NCAA came out, but it is still good.

FWIW Amazon still shows it in stock...
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« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2008, 04:32:39 AM »

Still playing the hell out of this one, and it's been an awesome surprise.  King difficulty seems to be the sweet spot for me, although a Domination victory has so far still been out of reach.  I've also had trouble with a Cultural victory, and on two occasions I've gotten down to needing 1 more converted city, Great Person, or Wonder, but could never seem to get them.   Frustrating.  I think I actually like the shortened 2-3 hour games much more than the marathon sessions the PC version requires.  I still wish there was a way to make the end-game more interesting in both versions though.  Once you hit a certain point in Civ Rev, it's pretty much a guarantee that you'll be playing one-on-five, or at least one-on-however many you haven't already wiped out.  I've also noticed some battle screwyness with late game units, with lower units taking down much higher ones.  In my last game, I counted 5 separate occasions where I was defeated by an enemy with an attack rating that wasn't even half the defensive rating of my unit.  Makes it a bit tough to plan when that sort of thing happens on a regular basis.

I'm still loving it though, warts and all.  Never thought they'd be able to make the conversion, but Firaxis has delivered with flying colors on this one.  Now if I could just find someone to try online with...
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“My next great decision is just lying in wait.
The action might turn out to be the world's most grievous mistake."
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Razgon
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« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2008, 08:27:04 PM »

Late to the party here, but just bought the game...and loving it - I'm a big Civ fan, at least, civ 1 and civ 2, never really played after that, but this? damn its great!!

As I posted over on OO, it would seem a small step to make Alpha Centauri, but appearently, Sid Meier doesnt own the rights to that, unfortunately....could have been cool to see the same kind of iteration of it, as Civ revolutions though
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msduncan
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« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2008, 12:33:21 AM »

I wish there was a way to play past the deadline.

The timeline ends way too quickly -- usually when I'm in the middle of a military operation to exterminate my neighbors.

Btw -- am I right that you can only use 1 nuke per game?   Like I develop nukes and then I use the nuke and that's it, I can't use it again?
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« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2008, 12:53:52 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on August 03, 2008, 12:33:21 AM

I wish there was a way to play past the deadline.

The timeline ends way too quickly -- usually when I'm in the middle of a military operation to exterminate my neighbors.

Btw -- am I right that you can only use 1 nuke per game?   Like I develop nukes and then I use the nuke and that's it, I can't use it again?

Whoever builds the Manhattan Project wonder gets the 1 nuke available in the game.
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“My next great decision is just lying in wait.
The action might turn out to be the world's most grievous mistake."
- Bad Religion, Past is Dead
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