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Author Topic: [360]rumour....new Blu-ray xbox 360 to be announced this week  (Read 2694 times)
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metallicorphan
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« on: June 08, 2008, 07:10:19 PM »

well,you know how much i fall for these rumours,and just so i can say first..i am calling BS right now...costing less than an Elite,doesn't make sense if you ask me...yup,i reckon its crap(perhaps if it is stripped of everything,HDD mainly)

from Kotaku
http://kotaku.com/5014349/rumor-microsoft-to-announce-blu+ray-xbox-on-monday#viewcomments
Quote
We have no confirmation or sourcing of our own on this, so, we don't vouch for its accuracy. But we will be watching the clock at 10 am Crecente time tomorrow, as CrunchGear is rumormongering that Microsoft will announce Blu-Ray Xboxes will be shipping by Christmas, at that time. Rumor has it they'll cost less than an Elite.

The announcement would apparently be timed to upstage Apple's Worldwide Developer's Conference which kicks off an hour later in San Francisco. Here's the full rumor from CrunchGear's tipster:

I’m told MS will upstage Apple with a Monday 9am PDT announcement (1 hour before WWDC) via press release that the Xbox 360 will get Blu-Ray before Christmas. Price was “under the current Elite," but i could get any more details.

We'll be pursuing this tomorrow as our means of pursuit are limited today. Carry on.

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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 07:16:44 PM »

yep... the BS meter is going of the scale again.

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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2008, 07:24:08 PM »

I guess I would be surprised if it was an in-box solution and not an add-on like the HD-DVD player was.  It's always possible, but to see it cheaper than the Elite would be a bit of a joke unless this coincides with dropping the prices on the regular models (which it very well might). 
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2008, 07:29:15 PM »

Either way it eats into their digital downloads and puts money in Sony's pocket.

Bad move if true.
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 07:29:28 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on June 08, 2008, 07:24:08 PM

I guess I would be surprised if it was an in-box solution and not an add-on like the HD-DVD player was.  It's always possible, but to see it cheaper than the Elite would be a bit of a joke unless this coincides with dropping the prices on the regular models (which it very well might). 

or else they've decided to risk taking a big loss to get more 360's out there.  still thinking BS though.
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2008, 07:30:10 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on June 08, 2008, 07:24:08 PM

I guess I would be surprised if it was an in-box solution and not an add-on like the HD-DVD player was.  It's always possible, but to see it cheaper than the Elite would be a bit of a joke unless this coincides with dropping the prices on the regular models (which it very well might). 


havent they just dropped the price on all 3(Elite,Premium,Arcade) though?

i am wondering if true,why it isnt an ADD-ON like the HD-DVD player was,surely they wouldnt be thinking of putting games on the Blu-Ray,as that would alienate 20 million 360 buyers straight away...but on the other hand...*cough*..metal gear solid 4 on the 360,LOL


and from what i said above about making it cheap by getting rid of the HDD...that would be pretty stupid and only add to the problem MS are currently having over the Arcade machines


but i know a few people who are buying a PS3 solely because its the cheapest BR player on the market
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2008, 08:00:30 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 08, 2008, 07:30:10 PM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on June 08, 2008, 07:24:08 PM

I guess I would be surprised if it was an in-box solution and not an add-on like the HD-DVD player was.  It's always possible, but to see it cheaper than the Elite would be a bit of a joke unless this coincides with dropping the prices on the regular models (which it very well might). 


havent they just dropped the price on all 3(Elite,Premium,Arcade) though?

i am wondering if true,why it isnt an ADD-ON like the HD-DVD player was,surely they wouldnt be thinking of putting games on the Blu-Ray,as that would alienate 20 million 360 buyers straight away...but on the other hand...*cough*..metal gear solid 4 on the 360,LOL


and from what i said above about making it cheap by getting rid of the HDD...that would be pretty stupid and only add to the problem MS are currently having over the Arcade machines


but i know a few people who are buying a PS3 solely because its the cheapest BR player on the market

They haven't dropped the price in the US for quite a while (since it went from $399 to $349 for the Pro/Premium). 

Even if they do have an in-box BRD, I certainly wouldn't expect any games to come on that format for now.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2008, 08:02:33 PM by EngineNo9 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2008, 08:28:41 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 08, 2008, 07:30:10 PM

but i know a few people who are buying a PS3 solely because its the cheapest BR player on the market

If there is any truth to this rumor (or rumour, MO), this is the reason behind it, no question. 
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2008, 08:34:25 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 08, 2008, 08:28:41 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 08, 2008, 07:30:10 PM

but i know a few people who are buying a PS3 solely because its the cheapest BR player on the market

If there is any truth to this rumor (or rumour, MO), this is the reason behind it, no question. 

LOL,is that another one?....sorry icon_biggrin
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2008, 08:44:10 PM »

Dude. It's Kotaku. While I imagine this might be true, I trust Kotaku as much as SonyDefenseForce.
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2008, 10:27:07 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on June 08, 2008, 08:44:10 PM

Dude. It's Kotaku. While I imagine this might be true, I trust Kotaku as much as SonyDefenseForce.

but SonyDefenseForce is a fine journalistic site
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2008, 10:31:49 PM »

oh look, kotaku trying to gain more viewership by spreading lies with no basis what so ever. what a surprise there.

this isn't a rag on the OP, but i seriously do not understand why people even view that site? shacknews, ve3d and bluesnews are way better one stop shops than that crappy blog will be any day. i have yet to see anything even resembling half way descent news come from that site. i'd sooner believe whatever my grand mother says ms is doing than kotaku.
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2008, 11:02:06 PM »

Am I the only one who would be happy if this news were true?  I’ve actually contemplated buying a PS3 BECAUSE of its blue ray player; the system itself interests me very little.  An X-box360 I would be far more inclined to enjoy.
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2008, 12:11:52 AM »

Quote from: Lordnine on June 08, 2008, 11:02:06 PM

Am I the only one who would be happy if this news were true? 

I'd be, because it'd help clear up space in my entertainment center since my PS3 is doing nothing but playing Blu Rays and going over the upcoming release schedule on Gamestop shows me thats all it's going to be doing for at least the rest of the year and possibly the beginning of the next.  It'll be a pleasant surprise if it's true, that's why I doubt it will be.
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008, 12:32:25 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 09, 2008, 12:11:52 AM

Quote from: Lordnine on June 08, 2008, 11:02:06 PM

Am I the only one who would be happy if this news were true? 

I'd be, because it'd help clear up space in my entertainment center since my PS3 is doing nothing but playing Blu Rays and going over the upcoming release schedule on Gamestop shows me thats all it's going to be doing for at least the rest of the year and possibly the beginning of the next.  It'll be a pleasant surprise if it's true, that's why I doubt it will be.
Oh I agree completely-I think the rumor is bullshit, but the day it might happen is likely the day I sell my PS3 and consolidate everything into the 360. My PS3 is 99.3% of the time a DVD/BRD player and frankly it's pretty stupid owning a 500$ machine for that use.
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2008, 01:08:53 AM »

Quote from: Calvin on June 09, 2008, 12:32:25 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 09, 2008, 12:11:52 AM

Quote from: Lordnine on June 08, 2008, 11:02:06 PM

Am I the only one who would be happy if this news were true? 

I'd be, because it'd help clear up space in my entertainment center since my PS3 is doing nothing but playing Blu Rays and going over the upcoming release schedule on Gamestop shows me thats all it's going to be doing for at least the rest of the year and possibly the beginning of the next.  It'll be a pleasant surprise if it's true, that's why I doubt it will be.
Oh I agree completely-I think the rumor is bullshit, but the day it might happen is likely the day I sell my PS3 and consolidate everything into the 360. My PS3 is 99.3% of the time a DVD/BRD player and frankly it's pretty stupid owning a 500$ machine for that use.

Agreed, the 2-3 worthwhile exclusives every year motivate me to borrow my friend's PS3 rather than own my own. Count me in the group that wants blu-ray on the 360.
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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2008, 01:40:03 AM »

There's another reason why this likely won't happen though.  Remember all the bluray drive speed problems with the PS3, it's the thing that's causing all the HD installs on the PS instead of being able to stream directly off the drive.  Well, even though bluray drives have advanced quite a bit, I'm not sure the drives would do all that well reading 360 dvds.
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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2008, 04:02:17 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on June 09, 2008, 01:40:03 AM

There's another reason why this likely won't happen though.  Remember all the bluray drive speed problems with the PS3, it's the thing that's causing all the HD installs on the PS instead of being able to stream directly off the drive.  Well, even though bluray drives have advanced quite a bit, I'm not sure the drives would do all that well reading 360 dvds.

do PS2 games require an install too?
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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2008, 04:35:33 AM »

Nope they don't.  However, PS2 games are significantly simpler than the kind of games the 360 has.
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2008, 01:19:43 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on June 09, 2008, 01:40:03 AM

There's another reason why this likely won't happen though.  Remember all the bluray drive speed problems with the PS3, it's the thing that's causing all the HD installs on the PS instead of being able to stream directly off the drive.  Well, even though bluray drives have advanced quite a bit, I'm not sure the drives would do all that well reading 360 dvds.

Is that because of the drive or because the PS3 games are on blu-ray discs? MS would not be able to allow their games to ship this way, because most of their customers don't have the blu-ray player.

Or am I completely wrong and there is no difference between the discs that the 360 and the PS3 use?
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2008, 02:21:14 PM »

PS3 uses BR discs while the 360 uses DVDs.  The read speed of BR discs in the PS3 is pretty much limited to 2x speed, while DVDs in the 360 read at something like 8x or 16x.  I think the reduced read speed is what forces developers to use installs, because while they can stream data off the disc in the 360, the reduced speed of the PS3 drive makes them unable to do that there.
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2008, 02:59:08 PM »

Just what the Xbox needs, another SKU.
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2008, 03:03:39 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on June 09, 2008, 01:40:03 AM

There's another reason why this likely won't happen though.  Remember all the bluray drive speed problems with the PS3, it's the thing that's causing all the HD installs on the PS instead of being able to stream directly off the drive.  Well, even though bluray drives have advanced quite a bit, I'm not sure the drives would do all that well reading 360 dvds.

Wait a minute. Am I off-base here or can't you have a BluRay drive that reads BluRay discs at 2x but DVDs at 16x or 32x or whatever?
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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2008, 04:23:19 PM »

well i started it,and now i will finish it...as most of us predicted,its seems like it was a load of crap

again,from Kotaku...lets see if i can do a quote in a quote icon_lol


Quote
You've heard the rumor: Microsoft will be announcing a Blu-ray Xbox 360 on Monday morning at 10am KT (Kotaku Time). Apparently Microsoft is gunning to upstage the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference. Check out what Microsoft Entertainment & Devices Division President Robbie Back has to say about that rumor:

Quote
Our plan continues to focus on high-definition experiences. Xbox 360 has a great ability to deliver those through the Xbox Live (online download) service. It's a great way to get the high-definition concept because it's right there. There's no additional media. There is nothing you need to purchase.


If you look at the Blu-ray player market, you haven't seen the acceleration everybody expected (since the demise of HD DVD). It's not as much about whether all the content is in a Blu-ray format or a HD DVD format. You have to look at how fundamentally compelling the difference is between a progressive scan DVD player and the picture that it can produce and what you get on a high-definition player. The reality is there is some difference, but most people look at it and say, "I am not going to pay extra for that."


There is nothing to even talk about [Blu-ray Xbox 360 plans] right now with regard to the next generation. That is so far out that there isn't anything to talk about.

Also in the interview, Bach states that there is "no real projection" on when the next Xbox iteration will be introduced. While adding that the company is always thinking about the future versions, Microsoft simply doesn't have anything to discuss at the moment. "The last generation for the Xbox was a little short because we entered the market a little bit later in the cycle," says Bach. "I suspect this time the cycle will be a little bit longer for us."



so,tune in next week when i quote from some various site,that the PS3 will have download only games and are doing away with retail releases!!!! icon_lol disgust
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 04:24:53 PM by metallicorphan » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2008, 04:31:05 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 09, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

so,tune in next week when i quote from some various site,that the PS3 will have download only games and are doing away with retail releases!!!! icon_lol disgust

Well, that'll cut down on install times, anyway.  Badump bump.
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2008, 04:36:56 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 09, 2008, 04:31:05 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 09, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

so,tune in next week when i quote from some various site,that the PS3 will have download only games and are doing away with retail releases!!!! icon_lol disgust

Well, that'll cut down on install times, anyway.  Badump bump.

are you kidding?  you'd have to download it and then install it.  and you won't be able to do anything else with the PS3 while it's downloading and installing.
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2008, 04:38:20 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on June 09, 2008, 03:03:39 PM

Quote from: Turtle on June 09, 2008, 01:40:03 AM

There's another reason why this likely won't happen though.  Remember all the bluray drive speed problems with the PS3, it's the thing that's causing all the HD installs on the PS instead of being able to stream directly off the drive.  Well, even though bluray drives have advanced quite a bit, I'm not sure the drives would do all that well reading 360 dvds.

Wait a minute. Am I off-base here or can't you have a BluRay drive that reads BluRay discs at 2x but DVDs at 16x or 32x or whatever?

Yes. Reading a BR disc at 2X is equivilent to reading a DVD or CD MUCH faster than that.

I've never heard of any "drive speed issue" being the reason for large installs.

Read mechanism 405 nm laser:
1× at 36 Mbit/s
2× at 72 Mbit/s
4× at 144 Mbit/s
6× at 216 Mbit/s[1]
12× at 432 Mbit/s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2008, 04:50:02 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 09, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

well i started it,and now i will finish it...as most of us predicted,its seems like it was a load of crap

again,from Kotaku...lets see if i can do a quote in a quote icon_lol


Quote
You've heard the rumor: Microsoft will be announcing a Blu-ray Xbox 360 on Monday morning at 10am KT (Kotaku Time). Apparently Microsoft is gunning to upstage the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference. Check out what Microsoft Entertainment & Devices Division President Robbie Back has to say about that rumor:

Quote
Our plan continues to focus on high-definition experiences. Xbox 360 has a great ability to deliver those through the Xbox Live (online download) service. It's a great way to get the high-definition concept because it's right there. There's no additional media. There is nothing you need to purchase.


If you look at the Blu-ray player market, you haven't seen the acceleration everybody expected (since the demise of HD DVD). It's not as much about whether all the content is in a Blu-ray format or a HD DVD format. You have to look at how fundamentally compelling the difference is between a progressive scan DVD player and the picture that it can produce and what you get on a high-definition player. The reality is there is some difference, but most people look at it and say, "I am not going to pay extra for that."


There is nothing to even talk about [Blu-ray Xbox 360 plans] right now with regard to the next generation. That is so far out that there isn't anything to talk about.

Also in the interview, Bach states that there is "no real projection" on when the next Xbox iteration will be introduced. While adding that the company is always thinking about the future versions, Microsoft simply doesn't have anything to discuss at the moment. "The last generation for the Xbox was a little short because we entered the market a little bit later in the cycle," says Bach. "I suspect this time the cycle will be a little bit longer for us."



so,tune in next week when i quote from some various site,that the PS3 will have download only games and are doing away with retail releases!!!! icon_lol disgust

It's good to hear that MS has finally come to their senses and won't be prematurely ending the 360's life cycle like they did for the XBox. And I love how he explains off why they did that for the XBox; they hardly entered last console gen late considering Nintendo entered at the same time and Sony extended the PS2 lifecycle to 6 years. It's one thing to end a consoles life cycle prematurely, but another to actively encourage your 3rd party dev studio's to deep 6 it too. Guess I'm not going to be happy about this blunder until some MS executive publicly apologizes. In the meantime I can take solice in the fact that Big N is whooping their ass despite entering this gen a year later.  icon_twisted
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2008, 05:39:17 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 09, 2008, 04:36:56 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 09, 2008, 04:31:05 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 09, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

so,tune in next week when i quote from some various site,that the PS3 will have download only games and are doing away with retail releases!!!! icon_lol disgust

Well, that'll cut down on install times, anyway.  Badump bump.

are you kidding?  you'd have to download it and then install it.  and you won't be able to do anything else with the PS3 while it's downloading and installing.

Well, I was kidding, thus the badump bump.  However, I think downloading from the internet and installing to the HD would still be faster than the drive speed of the Blu Ray, ignoring all compelling evidence that jblank has put forth.
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2008, 06:33:48 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 09, 2008, 05:39:17 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 09, 2008, 04:36:56 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 09, 2008, 04:31:05 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 09, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

so,tune in next week when i quote from some various site,that the PS3 will have download only games and are doing away with retail releases!!!! icon_lol disgust

Well, that'll cut down on install times, anyway.  Badump bump.

are you kidding?  you'd have to download it and then install it.  and you won't be able to do anything else with the PS3 while it's downloading and installing.

I was trying to be humorous too, but I rolled an Epic Fail  crybaby

Well, I was kidding, thus the badump bump.  However, I think downloading from the internet and installing to the HD would still be faster than the drive speed of the Blu Ray, ignoring all compelling evidence that jblank has put forth.
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« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2008, 06:34:18 PM »

Yeah, caching/installing is ALWAYS gonna be faster, but my point was that to the best of my knowledge, large installs don't have anything to do with BD read speed "issues". As I have said, until this thread, I have never heard a single person make a claim that large installs to the PS3 HDD were a result of the drives speed.
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2008, 06:35:20 PM »

Quote from: jblank on June 09, 2008, 06:34:18 PM

Yeah, caching/installing is ALWAYS gonna be faster, but my point was that to the best of my knowledge, large installs don't have anything to do with BD read speed "issues". As I have said, until this thread, I have never heard a single person make a claim that large installs to the PS3 HDD were a result of the drives speed.

nothing to add except I'm really enjoying your new avatar  thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2008, 07:26:04 PM »

Quote from: jblank on June 09, 2008, 06:34:18 PM

Yeah, caching/installing is ALWAYS gonna be faster, but my point was that to the best of my knowledge, large installs don't have anything to do with BD read speed "issues". As I have said, until this thread, I have never heard a single person make a claim that large installs to the PS3 HDD were a result of the drives speed.

I'm 99% sure I've heard actual PS3 game devs say that is the reason for installs to the HD (whether large or small)

no, I don't have any specific links and I don't care enough to look any up...but I've definitely heard that from multiple sources

personally, installs don't bother me whatsoever, I have 160gig HD in my PS3
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papasmurff
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« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2008, 10:03:16 PM »

interesting article linked from joystiq to MTV.....Here is the link to the full article.

Quote
The issue arises from differences in the reading techniques of DVD and Blu-ray. By nature, the outer and inner parts of a disc move at different speeds while a disc is spinning, regardless of format (CD, DVD, Blu-ray, HD-DVD, etc.). While DVD drives can read data at those differing speeds, Blu-ray reads at one speed. Combine that with the extremely large size of Blu-ray discs, and simply dumping existing DVD data onto a Blu-ray disc will inevitably result in longer load times.

Installations are a way around this issue.
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2008, 10:06:16 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 09, 2008, 06:33:48 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 09, 2008, 05:39:17 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 09, 2008, 04:36:56 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 09, 2008, 04:31:05 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on June 09, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

so,tune in next week when i quote from some various site,that the PS3 will have download only games and are doing away with retail releases!!!! icon_lol disgust

Well, that'll cut down on install times, anyway.  Badump bump.

are you kidding?  you'd have to download it and then install it.  and you won't be able to do anything else with the PS3 while it's downloading and installing.

I was trying to be humorous too, but I rolled an Epic Fail  crybaby

Well, I was kidding, thus the badump bump.  However, I think downloading from the internet and installing to the HD would still be faster than the drive speed of the Blu Ray, ignoring all compelling evidence that jblank has put forth.

Make that a Double Epic Fail for posting within a quote box.  icon_twisted
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« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2008, 10:44:29 PM »

I've also heard of developers that will duplicate data on the Blu-Ray disc to make reading data faster too.
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« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2008, 03:46:29 AM »

I suspect duplicating data doesn't make reads faster, but instead makes seek times faster as the laser head has to move less to find the data.
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« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2008, 01:57:11 PM »

Turtle, I hope you didn't bruise your forehead, pushing those geek glasses up your nose like that.
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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2008, 03:02:08 PM »

This was all discussed in the first PS3 hd install thread (DMC4, iirc)
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2008, 03:47:02 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 10, 2008, 01:57:11 PM

Turtle, I hope you didn't bruise your forehead, pushing those geek glasses up your nose like that.

What?  Sorry, couldn't quite see that text.  *pushes glasses up farther on nose*

Ow, that's going to leave a mark.
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