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Author Topic: [360] Star Trek: Legacy  (Read 1977 times)
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Jarrodhk
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« on: December 17, 2006, 10:05:21 AM »

Welp, I picked this up earlier in the evening and just now go some time in with it.  So far it is exactly what I expected: A fun, good-looking (minus the explosion chunks... those could use some work), starship combat game.

I've only played 2 missions so far.  Lots of things being shot, re-activated a repair facility, scanned some planets, the usual.  Make no mistake, the game is combat focussed.  Fortunately for me that is exactly what I'm interested in getting from the game.

You get command points from each mission, after which you can spend them on buying/selling different ships.  I haven't seen anything about customizing your ship, which is disappointing.  I also haven't looked at the manual yet.

The controls are fairly intuitive, I'm sure with a little more time, and actually reading the manual, they will become second nature.

Right now my fleet consists of the Enterprise, a destroyer, and a battleship.  I've mainly been controlling the Enterprise.  I enjoy rotating around and seeing where my ship has been hammered...  probably enjoy that a little too much to be honest.  I'd like a way to pause and examine enemy ships the same way.  Half the fun of games like this for me is seeing the damage I've done (or taken).

Anyway, that's it for the moment.  I'll put up more impressions later.
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2006, 03:35:41 PM »

Hows the multi I wanna hear about live battles icon_biggrin
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2006, 04:25:08 PM »

Well considering the fact that I don't play with random people.... and so far I've only seen Kathode with the game on my friend's list...  it'll probably be a while before I find that out.

I am intrigued by the co-op waves mode.  Sounds like it could be fun.

I've gotten through the first 2 eras so far.  Good times overall.  I plan to go back and get several of the achievements I missed the first time through.  I hit the inevitable 'frustration/annoying' mission in the next gen era.  I think I've got how to beat it planned out... it's just going to take more time than I want to devote to it right this second, so I'm taking a break.  If the mission actually involved things that shoot back I'd probably be more inspired. 

Stupid rocks.
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2006, 04:29:47 PM »

Yeah the rock mission drove me insane as well.  The last part of it, especially.
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2006, 04:37:57 PM »

Well, playing a bit of it last night I have to say this:

"What happened to the PC version??" 

The 360 version controls better, looks better (and I'm with you on the explosions, its like Legos blowing up), and loads faster, even on my 10,000 RPM drive.  What gives?? 

My impressions are pretty good thus far, as long as you know what you are getting going in - this is not Bridge Commander 2.
The game is essentially a semi-tactical shooter.  When you look at it from that angle, it succeeds at that very well.  I'll have a full review soon. smile
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2006, 04:40:36 PM »

From what I understand Ron, the PC version is a 360 port, so it probably isn't optimized as well for a PC. That may explain its middling performance and customization options on the PC.
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2006, 05:44:50 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 17, 2006, 04:37:57 PM

The game is essentially a semi-tactical shooter.  When you look at it from that angle, it succeeds at that very well.  I'll have a full review soon. smile

There were tactics to the game? I just pointed my entire fleet at a single target and told them to kill things. Repeatedly. For the entire game.

And as for the giant rock mission, here's a 'cheat' for it:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Make sure you have an Excalibur (or at least one of the two most 'expensive' ships) in your fleet. When the giant rock rumbles on in, put all power to Engines (not sure if it's necessary), get close and tractor beam it with said big ship. You can't move it anywhere (at least I couldn't), but you do stop it in its tracks after a beam application or two. Then you just take your time and shoot it down. Do the same thing for when you break it into smaller pieces.

Most difficult mission period to play for 'real', IMHO.

As for another trick - take 3 or 4 of the platform guns and move them near the planet before you take the rest to their mission goals. That way you don't have to worry about any rocks ever escaping to risk hitting the planets.

Note to devs - this mission would've have been such a pain in the ass if you offered mid-level saves (at least on the PC version - although a mod already solves this stupid design decision). Not sure if you can save mid-level in the 360 version though.
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Jarrodhk
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2006, 06:03:06 PM »

Nope.  Space combat sims have almost always been this way though.  Get it right in one shot or else.  Which is why some of my most frustrating game memories come from the genre.

Going to have to do some co-op mp!

Edit: I think my biggest problem was focusing on one ship instead of multi-tasking.
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2006, 06:31:34 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on December 17, 2006, 05:44:50 PM

And as for the giant rock mission, here's a 'cheat' for it:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Make sure you have an Excalibur (or at least one of the two most 'expensive' ships) in your fleet. When the giant rock rumbles on in, put all power to Engines (not sure if it's necessary), get close and tractor beam it with said big ship. You can't move it anywhere (at least I couldn't), but you do stop it in its tracks after a beam application or two. Then you just take your time and shoot it down. Do the same thing for when you break it into smaller pieces.

Most difficult mission period to play for 'real', IMHO.

As for another trick - take 3 or 4 of the platform guns and move them near the planet before you take the rest to their mission goals. That way you don't have to worry about any rocks ever escaping to risk hitting the planets.
gh a mod already solves this stupid design decision). Not sure if you can save mid-level in the 360 version though.

Rock mission notes -
Spoiler for Hiden:
I found it easiest to buy the cheapest, fastest scout ship (apollo refit?  Something like that) and just drag the rocks into it as fast as possible.  I couldn't figure out how to get my ships to auto-drag them in.  Everytime I gave up control the ship would just orbit the rock instead of ramming it.  So I just took out a speeder and worked quick.

Also I found the turrets will guard the sensor arrays pretty well too.  That's the only way I was able to finish the mission without losing one.
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2006, 08:05:28 PM »

So I beat the damn thing and it freezes, so I dont even get to see the ending or such.

Its an okay game, but the engine is just a clusterfuck. The last few missions have so many ships going nuts on eachother that its really hard to judge how the battles going, control your fleet, let alone do the asinine mission goals they throw at you 30 minutes into the missions. No in game checkpoint or save made this title 10 times harder than it should have been.

Still want to know what the U.S.S. Legacy is though....
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2006, 08:41:21 PM »

Don't know why but this game just smacks of 'bargain bin' to me.  I think it will be an early price dropper.    Especially if tactically all you have to do is point your fleet, say kill, and get out of the way.
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2006, 11:06:49 PM »

Quote from: mikeg on December 17, 2006, 08:41:21 PM

Don't know why but this game just smacks of 'bargain bin' to me.  I think it will be an early price dropper.    Especially if tactically all you have to do is point your fleet, say kill, and get out of the way.

Agreed. $40 for the PC version was too much. And I feel sorry for those who spent $60 on it for the 360.

As for the engine - the engine itself isn't too bad. The AI though...terrible. During the last mission, I finally (only time I EVER did) lost a ship. Why did I lose it? I told the thing to head back to base for repairs (some 'magic' repair thing at the start of the 'level') and then moved to manually control another ship to give it cover. What did the ship do as soon as I left manual control? It came to a complete and utter stop. Even though my last order was not only targeting the repair thing, but I pointed it directly at the target and had full impulse on, it defied my order and came to a stop.

It was so stupid, it deserved to die. I have no regrets.

Terrible crappy game. Not only a total waste of the Star Trek license, but a waste of cash for anybody who bought the game.

EDIT: And yeah, Kathode, that's how you're supposed to finish the mission (as the AI is completely unable to do it for you). My way is if you're tired of micromanaging your 'fleet of intelligent captains' and just want to get the mission over with.
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2006, 12:08:49 AM »

Seals the deal for me I am a big time Star Trek fan this is looking like a rental now thanks for saving me $65. thumbsdown
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2006, 12:24:45 AM »

That is very true - it does require a LOT of micromanagement over your fleet.  Often I've wondered "Where is Washington?" only to hit my tactical map and find them lazily orbiting some planet we left 5 minutes ago.  :/    Maybe some patches will help?
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2006, 05:56:24 AM »

Eh.  It has its problems.  The ai is definitely weird sometimes when switching between ships.  I felt the same 'wft' more than once with the friendly ai that sometimes cannot figure out how to do anything.

Overall I've had fun, and look forward to finishing it up later.  I don't particularly feel that I 'wasted' 60 bucks.  That is just my opinion however.  I like this much more than I liked Star Trek Encounters.  That WAS a bargin bin title, and felt like it.

No midlevel saves sucks, no doubt about it.  It is also a standard convention in space/air combat games.  X-wing and Tie fighter both pissed me off immensely because of this 'feature'.

Apparently I suck at the game as I have lost several ships through the missions.  Never the one I'm controlling, and usually because the ai did something stupid, like not retreat when I told it to do so.

I would still like to get some MP in once people rent the game. 
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2006, 06:04:54 AM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 18, 2006, 12:24:45 AM

That is very true - it does require a LOT of micromanagement over your fleet.  Often I've wondered "Where is Washington?" only to hit my tactical map and find them lazily orbiting some planet we left 5 minutes ago.  :/    Maybe some patches will help?

One can only hope.

The AI is good (mostly) at one thing, and one thing only - sticking with your other units and attacking the target you're attacking (by using the all move here and all attack this target orders). And even then it doesn't work right from time to time (the asteroid mission, for example - I caught my other ships simply running away from a completely stationary target instead of shooting it like I told them to).

This game had such great potential. Too bad it was completely wasted. I'm also glad I got somebody to not spend $60 on it, too.
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2006, 03:58:02 PM »

I disagree that it was completely wasted.  I think many people wanted Bridge Commander 2, and unless they got it, they wouldn't be happy.  Well, in this case we have a more action oriented title with much less 'total ship control' but I've enjoyed it thus far. 

I'm currently stuck on said stupid rock mission.  I can complete it, but I want to do it without losing any sensors....
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2006, 06:13:52 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on December 18, 2006, 03:58:02 PM

I'm currently stuck on said stupid rock mission.  I can complete it, but I want to do it without losing any sensors....

The tiny bit of command points you'd get for fully succeeding isn't worth the time and aggravation to play through this mission multiple times. And I think I remember reading that it will pretty much happen.

Or is it an achievement somewhere for the 360 version?
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2006, 07:48:34 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on December 18, 2006, 06:13:52 PM

The tiny bit of command points you'd get for fully succeeding isn't worth the time and aggravation to play through this mission multiple times. And I think I remember reading that it will pretty much happen.

Or is it an achievement somewhere for the 360 version?

Yeah, there are a ton of achievements for completing missions in particular ways.  A lot of them, like that one, have achievements for completing all the objectives.  Others have achievements for completing missions without destroying any ships, not getting hit at all, etc etc. 

I just towed the turrets over to the sensors and didn't have to worry about them after that.
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2006, 09:54:20 PM »

I'll get back to this mission afterI finish beating my head against COD3 on Veteran.  Or when I get tired of beating my head against the wall... whichever.  Need to organize some mp COD3 as well.
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 08:20:00 PM »

so, is there any customization of the ships?  one of the blurbs in an ad for legacy specifically stated that you could customize fleets AND ships.
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 08:21:25 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on December 21, 2006, 08:20:00 PM

so, is there any customization of the ships?  one of the blurbs in an ad for legacy specifically stated that you could customize fleets AND ships.

Not that I've seen.  Not at all. frown
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2006, 08:24:07 PM »

darn, that kind of seals the deal for me then.  i'll wait for it by the 19.99 or less bin at my local gamestop.   icon_wink
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2006, 09:43:18 PM »

Just tried this for the first time today. I'm finding the controls really frustrating. I get completely disoriented with the combat camera, and with the trailing camera, I can seldom see my target on screen and have no idea whether the target is in a firing arc at a given moment.

I also can't tell what the other ships in my fleet are doing or if they are following.
Is there some kind of feedback on screen for when they are selected?
I'm not even sure how to do something as basic as have everyone attack a given ship.

The power rerouting thing is cool and very easy to use.

The repair controls are too cumbersome to hit the d-pad buttons while holding the left bumper.

Aren't you supposed to be able to do 2-player co-op on the same machine?
Can someone please tell me how to do this?
I wasn't able to figure out how to make that happen in Skirmish mode.
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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2006, 09:09:12 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on December 21, 2006, 09:43:18 PM

Just tried this for the first time today. I'm finding the controls really frustrating. I get completely disoriented with the combat camera, and with the trailing camera, I can seldom see my target on screen and have no idea whether the target is in a firing arc at a given moment.

I also can't tell what the other ships in my fleet are doing or if they are following.
Is there some kind of feedback on screen for when they are selected?
I'm not even sure how to do something as basic as have everyone attack a given ship.


The power rerouting thing is cool and very easy to use.

The repair controls are too cumbersome to hit the d-pad buttons while holding the left bumper.

Aren't you supposed to be able to do 2-player co-op on the same machine?
Can someone please tell me how to do this?
I wasn't able to figure out how to make that happen in Skirmish mode.

Ditto the bolded part, how do you tell this?
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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2006, 11:39:42 PM »

To answer the bolded part:

1) You don't know short of looking at the map, or listen in on their worthless chatter. Pull up the map and you'll see lines on it showing you what they're doing. It's not pretty, but it works.
2) The ship you're currently controlling will be the highlighted one of the (up to) 4 ships displayed on the upper left on the screen. If you have them all selected (pushing 5 if I remember right on the PC, don't know the 360 method), they'll all be highlighted.
3) See 2. Once all your ships are highlighted, give an order to attack a ship (either by selecting an enemy ship (F on the PC, don't know the 360) or by bringing up the map and clicking on an enemy). Then your ships will move off and do their thing (which is usually a waste of time, as the AI is poor in what it does).

Also, there's no way to figure out what your ship's firing arc(s) are short of just turning around and seeing if a target lock starts up or not. It's a pure joke how this game works in this method IMHO, as the ENTIRE game is based around combat.
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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2006, 04:32:47 AM »

I have been playing a tiny bit of this, and other than the graphics and voices, its awful.
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2006, 04:40:13 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on December 27, 2006, 04:32:47 AM

I have been playing a tiny bit of this, and other than the graphics and voices, its awful.

I'm neither thrilled or chilled on it yet, it has some real pluses but some big minuses also. The game feels maybe a bit unpolished and unfocused, and it could have benefitted from a bit better storyline, but the graphics are good, the combat seems ok, and its Star Trek.

I'd still give my eye teeth for a worthy follow up to the Starfleet Command PC games, but on the 360, or for a tactical Battlestar Galactica game, new BSG of course.
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2006, 05:01:39 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 04:40:13 PM

The game feels maybe a bit unpolished and unfocused, and it could have benefitted from a bit better storyline, but the graphics are good, the combat seems ok, and its Star Trek.

I read somewhere that alot of the story got cut in order to get the game out the door just like they did with KotOR2.
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2006, 05:05:17 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 27, 2006, 05:01:39 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 04:40:13 PM

The game feels maybe a bit unpolished and unfocused, and it could have benefitted from a bit better storyline, but the graphics are good, the combat seems ok, and its Star Trek.

I read somewhere that alot of the story got cut in order to get the game out the door just like they did with KotOR2.

Why do that though? Is it smarter to:

(A) Take another month or two, but get the game done EXACTLY the way it needed to be done, which will result in more positive buzz and maybe better sales

or

(B) Rush it, get mediocre reviews because of its "incompleteness", which inevitably means it won't sell, and hits the $29.99 bin sooner, costing them money

Seems to me that with gaming, (A) is the better choice for profitability.
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« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2006, 05:15:21 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 05:05:17 PM

Seems to me that with gaming, (A) is the better choice for profitability.

I agree, but they probably wanted to get it out for the Holidays (and they barely made that anyways).
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2006, 05:26:34 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 27, 2006, 05:15:21 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 05:05:17 PM

Seems to me that with gaming, (A) is the better choice for profitability.
I agree, but they probably wanted to get it out for the Holidays (and they barely made that anyways).

Yes, (A) makes perfect sense, but due to publisher stupidity (everything ABSOLUTELY MUST GET OUT AT CHRISTMAS TIME instead of spreading it around the whole year), everything gets forced out at one time of the year instead of waiting a little bit to make it better.
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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2006, 05:56:05 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on December 27, 2006, 05:26:34 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on December 27, 2006, 05:15:21 PM

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 05:05:17 PM

Seems to me that with gaming, (A) is the better choice for profitability.
I agree, but they probably wanted to get it out for the Holidays (and they barely made that anyways).

Yes, (A) makes perfect sense, but due to publisher stupidity (everything ABSOLUTELY MUST GET OUT AT CHRISTMAS TIME instead of spreading it around the whole year), everything gets forced out at one time of the year instead of waiting a little bit to make it better.

That just seems like such a "shoot yourself in the foot" kind of mentality, but hey, what do I know.
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2006, 09:15:29 PM »

Quote from: jblank on December 27, 2006, 05:56:05 PM

Quote from: Destructor on December 27, 2006, 05:26:34 PM

Yes, (A) makes perfect sense, but due to publisher stupidity (everything ABSOLUTELY MUST GET OUT AT CHRISTMAS TIME instead of spreading it around the whole year), everything gets forced out at one time of the year instead of waiting a little bit to make it better.
That just seems like such a "shoot yourself in the foot" kind of mentality, but hey, what do I know.

Yeah, you're only a gamer with a limited budget who can spend $X a month, and when all these great games come out in a single month, you're forced to choose only a few of them, instead of buying all of them throughout the year if they were spread out.

At least that's how I see things. Yes, it annoys me to no end how publishers do this EVERY YEAR without fail.
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« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2006, 01:00:49 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on December 27, 2006, 09:15:29 PM

Yeah, you're only a gamer with a limited budget who can spend $X a month, and when all these great games come out in a single month, you're forced to choose only a few of them, instead of buying all of them throughout the year if they were spread out.

At least that's how I see things. Yes, it annoys me to no end how publishers do this EVERY YEAR without fail.
The unfortunate reality is that most people aren't gamers who buy games throughout the year.  Not just games, the entire consumer retail establishment is geared toward Q4.  It is annoying, I agree.  My November was quite expensive.
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