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Author Topic: "Please pirate our games. Thanks. With Love, EA CEO"  (Read 2738 times)
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Jeff
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« on: June 28, 2009, 10:07:58 PM »

Ars link

FTA:

EA CEO John Riccitiello has a new message for people who want to pirate EA games: go ahead and do it. "By the way, if there are any pirates you're writing for, please encourage them to pirate FIFA Online, NBA Street Online, Battleforge, Battlefield Heroes..." he told IndustryGamers. "If they would just pirate lots of it I'd love them. [laughs] Because what's in the middle of the game is an opportunity to buy stuff."

Welcome to the new EA, where you're not being sold a game, you're being sold a store. /end

This is interesting.

Thoughts? comments?
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2009, 10:35:18 PM »

Welcome to the era of micro-transactions.  It's sad that an actual CEO would admit that the game itself isn't even worth paying for these days.
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2009, 10:47:58 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on June 28, 2009, 10:35:18 PM

Welcome to the era of micro-transactions.  It's sad that an actual CEO would admit that the game itself isn't even worth paying for these days.

Don't you have to pay for it in order to have a "retail" copy, in order to make the micro-transactions? (which shall henceforth be called "MT's")

Or can the pirated, er, "demo" versions make the MT's ?
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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 12:38:39 AM »

This is why he means what he means:

Quote
EA has some built-in protection against pirates when it comes to Sims 3. A large percentage of the content isn't even saved on the disc: you have to go online and activate the title to get the rest of the game. "A huge amount of the gameplay is an overlay for the community, where you are sampling assets created by other people. So for the pirate consumer, they don't get the second town, they don't get all the extra content, and they don't get the community," Riccitiello explained. EA had sent me a copy of the game to check out, and while installing I noticed there was a 3GB update that needed to be installed to play.

Due to online activations (and large after-purchase required downloads), he's calling the discs you're buying on store shelves 'demos', as they're nearly worthless until you activate them.

This is a BAD precedent in my mind. Imagine if you were still on dial-up?
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 01:24:48 AM »

Fuck EA.
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 05:58:23 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 29, 2009, 12:38:39 AM

This is why he means what he means:

Quote
EA has some built-in protection against pirates when it comes to Sims 3. A large percentage of the content isn't even saved on the disc: you have to go online and activate the title to get the rest of the game. "A huge amount of the gameplay is an overlay for the community, where you are sampling assets created by other people. So for the pirate consumer, they don't get the second town, they don't get all the extra content, and they don't get the community," Riccitiello explained. EA had sent me a copy of the game to check out, and while installing I noticed there was a 3GB update that needed to be installed to play.

Due to online activations (and large after-purchase required downloads), he's calling the discs you're buying on store shelves 'demos', as they're nearly worthless until you activate them.

This is a BAD precedent in my mind. Imagine if you were still on dial-up?

do you know anyone still on dialup? And even IF they were still on dialiup, they could still unlock the full game.

honestly, I dont care - more power to EA for trying to stop piraracy in ways other than "Draconian DRM"
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Harkonis
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 06:35:19 AM »

Raz, you forget apparently that not everyone is Danish slywink

I know plenty of people who still don't have broadband here in the US.
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 06:36:28 AM »

is that battleforge game free now? pretty sure I remember seeing that.

this is a better way to prevent piracy imo. cause if I like the game i'll pay for anything that i deem worth it. just like I do with rock band songs. if it keeps a game fresh and fun why not, right? I buy addons for games. While I think the fallout3 dlc is vastly overpriced, at least they are trying something new.

i like stardock's form of drm. keep updating and require impulse for the updates. no disc, no bullshit limited installs. just having a legit copy, which is fine by me they deserve the money.

besides, it's not like you can stop pirates anyways. so why not joke around a bit? I bet this would be 180 degrees if it was coming from the douche bag in charge of activision. welcome to the new and IMPROVED ea is what you should be saying.
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 06:45:02 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on June 29, 2009, 06:35:19 AM

Raz, you forget apparently that not everyone is Danish slywink

I know plenty of people who still don't have broadband here in the US.

seriosuly? you'r not just trying to argue with me? :-D hehe, well - okay...I guess if lots of people are on dialup, it could be a problem, I just never imagined...  icon_eek
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 07:31:45 AM »

At this point in time, we really can't limit everything to be suitable for dialup any more. We're never going to progress that way.

Personally I find the idea of patches and DLC to be a good way to deal with piracy. Hopefully it'll eventually let us get rid of DRM completely in the future.
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 08:26:28 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 29, 2009, 07:31:45 AM

At this point in time, we really can't limit everything to be suitable for dialup any more. We're never going to progress that way.

Personally I find the idea of patches and DLC to be a good way to deal with piracy. Hopefully it'll eventually let us get rid of DRM completely in the future.

But DLC and auto-patch are going to be as much problem as online authentication based DRM. Years later when you want to replay 2009 EA games where the discs are just "demos", you have to redownload every DLC and let it auto-patch (if the online resource is still available) before you can play. If those online resources are gone then you are going to just replay demos instead of the complete games.

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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2009, 09:11:04 AM »

Demos? Oh come on! Have you tried The Sims 3? Is the base game a demo to you? If so, you must be playing some pretty damn fantastic demos.
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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2009, 09:24:10 AM »

These comments do make me wonder what exactly will be on the disk for Dragon Age this fall.  Unlike the sports titles or Sims games, where micro transactions are an easy fit, the concept is harder with a full-scale RPG.  Limiting legitimate users to DLC add-ons is not quite the same thing.

It is interesting to me that while traditional DRM is not popular, all that is happening in response is that publishers are finding other ways to try and combat piracy and no matter what they try, there are people who will bitch about it.  Even traditionally friendly publishers, like Stardock, are apparently reaching the conclusion that just releasing stuff and hoping for the best isn't working.

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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2009, 10:03:38 AM »

Quote from: Sarkus on June 29, 2009, 09:24:10 AM

These comments do make me wonder what exactly will be on the disk for Dragon Age this fall.  Unlike the sports titles or Sims games, where micro transactions are an easy fit, the concept is harder with a full-scale RPG.  Limiting legitimate users to DLC add-ons is not quite the same thing.

From Bioware  -
Quote
We’re happy to announce that the boxed/retail PC version of Dragon Age: Origins will use only a basic disk check and it will not require online authentication. In other words, the retail PC version of the game won’t require you to go online to authenticate the game for offline play. We have chosen not to use SecuROM in any version of Dragon Age that is distributed by EA or BioWare.
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2009, 12:37:29 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 29, 2009, 05:58:23 AM

Quote from: Destructor on June 29, 2009, 12:38:39 AM

This is why he means what he means:

Quote
EA has some built-in protection against pirates when it comes to Sims 3. A large percentage of the content isn't even saved on the disc: you have to go online and activate the title to get the rest of the game. "A huge amount of the gameplay is an overlay for the community, where you are sampling assets created by other people. So for the pirate consumer, they don't get the second town, they don't get all the extra content, and they don't get the community," Riccitiello explained. EA had sent me a copy of the game to check out, and while installing I noticed there was a 3GB update that needed to be installed to play.

Due to online activations (and large after-purchase required downloads), he's calling the discs you're buying on store shelves 'demos', as they're nearly worthless until you activate them.

This is a BAD precedent in my mind. Imagine if you were still on dial-up?

do you know anyone still on dialup? And even IF they were still on dialiup, they could still unlock the full game.

honestly, I dont care - more power to EA for trying to stop piraracy in ways other than "Draconian DRM"

My parents are practically on dialup-whatever they use it's not something I would want to have to use gigs of data for.  Besides, I don't trust EA to be there for me 5 years down the road.  How long do the servers last for sports games before they shut them down and force everyone to move over to the next version?  If it's something that you can save on a disk and be able to install it in five years time yourself then I guess that would be ok.
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« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2009, 12:53:32 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on June 29, 2009, 12:37:29 PM

Quote from: Razgon on June 29, 2009, 05:58:23 AM

Quote from: Destructor on June 29, 2009, 12:38:39 AM

This is why he means what he means:

Quote
EA has some built-in protection against pirates when it comes to Sims 3. A large percentage of the content isn't even saved on the disc: you have to go online and activate the title to get the rest of the game. "A huge amount of the gameplay is an overlay for the community, where you are sampling assets created by other people. So for the pirate consumer, they don't get the second town, they don't get all the extra content, and they don't get the community," Riccitiello explained. EA had sent me a copy of the game to check out, and while installing I noticed there was a 3GB update that needed to be installed to play.

Due to online activations (and large after-purchase required downloads), he's calling the discs you're buying on store shelves 'demos', as they're nearly worthless until you activate them.

This is a BAD precedent in my mind. Imagine if you were still on dial-up?

do you know anyone still on dialup? And even IF they were still on dialiup, they could still unlock the full game.

honestly, I dont care - more power to EA for trying to stop piraracy in ways other than "Draconian DRM"

My parents are practically on dialup-whatever they use it's not something I would want to have to use gigs of data for.  Besides, I don't trust EA to be there for me 5 years down the road.  How long do the servers last for sports games before they shut them down and force everyone to move over to the next version?  If it's something that you can save on a disk and be able to install it in five years time yourself then I guess that would be ok.
My mom was on dial-up until about a month ago. I have friend who are on dial-up as well. Some due to cost and some due to it still not being available in their area. I have also had to deal with MANY customers using dial-up. Not fun when you are going there to fix their PC's and need to download drivers and windows updates and such...
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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2009, 01:55:50 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on June 29, 2009, 08:26:28 AM

But DLC and auto-patch are going to be as much problem as online authentication based DRM. Years later when you want to replay 2009 EA games where the discs are just "demos", you have to redownload every DLC and let it auto-patch (if the online resource is still available) before you can play. If those online resources are gone then you are going to just replay demos instead of the complete games.

And that right there is also one of my concerns. Will big companies like EA still be around in a few years? Odds are pretty good. But as somebody else said - will they allow you to play (still have the 'install data' for) the older sports titles instead of the brand new ones?

And as far as dial-up goes - I thought only like 25% of the US was wired for high-speed access. Keep in mind that we still have a lot of 'middle of nowhere' towns and such out there.
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« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2009, 03:38:10 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 29, 2009, 01:55:50 PM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on June 29, 2009, 08:26:28 AM

But DLC and auto-patch are going to be as much problem as online authentication based DRM. Years later when you want to replay 2009 EA games where the discs are just "demos", you have to redownload every DLC and let it auto-patch (if the online resource is still available) before you can play. If those online resources are gone then you are going to just replay demos instead of the complete games.

And that right there is also one of my concerns. Will big companies like EA still be around in a few years? Odds are pretty good. But as somebody else said - will they allow you to play (still have the 'install data' for) the older sports titles instead of the brand new ones?

And as far as dial-up goes - I thought only like 25% of the US was wired for high-speed access. Keep in mind that we still have a lot of 'middle of nowhere' towns and such out there.

Looks like we're at 60%.  At least, according to this link:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/us-20th-in-broadband-penetration-trails-s-korea-estonia.ars
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« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2009, 03:43:09 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on June 29, 2009, 03:38:10 PM

Quote from: Destructor on June 29, 2009, 01:55:50 PM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on June 29, 2009, 08:26:28 AM

But DLC and auto-patch are going to be as much problem as online authentication based DRM. Years later when you want to replay 2009 EA games where the discs are just "demos", you have to redownload every DLC and let it auto-patch (if the online resource is still available) before you can play. If those online resources are gone then you are going to just replay demos instead of the complete games.

And that right there is also one of my concerns. Will big companies like EA still be around in a few years? Odds are pretty good. But as somebody else said - will they allow you to play (still have the 'install data' for) the older sports titles instead of the brand new ones?

And as far as dial-up goes - I thought only like 25% of the US was wired for high-speed access. Keep in mind that we still have a lot of 'middle of nowhere' towns and such out there.

Looks like we're at 60%.  At least, according to this link:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/us-20th-in-broadband-penetration-trails-s-korea-estonia.ars

4th place here - Go Denmark!

makes sense really, as its been the focus of past governments to get broadband to everyone and make denmark a leader in this area
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« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2009, 04:04:10 PM »

The pirates are just going to pack up the full version. They have rules about releases you know.

When you make it easier for pirates to play your movies, games and music than legitimate customers, it may be time to rethink your business model.
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« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2009, 04:13:33 PM »

I dont know...Stardock is doing pretty well with this model, and its games doesnt get updated as far as I remember from Galvic II and I in the crack releases, since there's so many of them
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« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2009, 05:18:36 PM »

Quote from: Jag on June 29, 2009, 04:04:10 PM

The pirates are just going to pack up the full version. They have rules about releases you know.

Good point. I never even thought about that for whatever reason.
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« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2009, 06:58:21 PM »

Quote from: Jag on June 29, 2009, 04:04:10 PM

The pirates are just going to pack up the full version. They have rules about releases you know.

Yes, they do. It needs to be the full version (which these games are), it needs to be fully playable without encountering any issues from copy protection, and it needs to be simple. Those aren't even absolute rules. The only one that REALLY counts is the "be the first group to release it" rule, and this is the one everyone strives for. Cracking patches and DLC is more of an exception than a rule, and it adds a layer of complication for the pirates where the owners of the game would only have to click a button in the interface to get it.
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« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2009, 07:08:09 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 29, 2009, 06:58:21 PM

Quote from: Jag on June 29, 2009, 04:04:10 PM

The pirates are just going to pack up the full version. They have rules about releases you know.

Yes, they do. It needs to be the full version (which these games are), it needs to be fully playable without encountering any issues from copy protection, and it needs to be simple. Those aren't even absolute rules. The only one that REALLY counts is the "be the first group to release it" rule, and this is the one everyone strives for. Cracking patches and DLC is more of an exception than a rule, and it adds a layer of complication for the pirates where the owners of the game would only have to click a button in the interface to get it.

Quote from: Razgon on June 29, 2009, 04:13:33 PM

I dont know...Stardock is doing pretty well with this model, and its games doesnt get updated as far as I remember from Galvic II and I in the crack releases, since there's so many of them

as I said - Stardock model, and it works damn well for them. Brad has previously stated re his Galciv II, that his latest versions werent cracked at all. I doubt that any money is lost on this model
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« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2009, 07:33:46 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 29, 2009, 07:08:09 PM

as I said - Stardock model, and it works damn well for them. Brad has previously stated re his Galciv II, that his latest versions werent cracked at all. I doubt that any money is lost on this model

Yeah. The pirate scene is all about the "glory" of being first to release the big new games, applications and movies. Once someone has released a fully working version, they all lose interest and move on to the next thing. There is no glory in releasing DLC and patches.
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« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2009, 08:53:49 PM »

Quote from: EddieA on June 29, 2009, 10:03:38 AM

Quote from: Sarkus on June 29, 2009, 09:24:10 AM

These comments do make me wonder what exactly will be on the disk for Dragon Age this fall.  Unlike the sports titles or Sims games, where micro transactions are an easy fit, the concept is harder with a full-scale RPG.  Limiting legitimate users to DLC add-ons is not quite the same thing.

From Bioware  -
Quote
We’re happy to announce that the boxed/retail PC version of Dragon Age: Origins will use only a basic disk check and it will not require online authentication. In other words, the retail PC version of the game won’t require you to go online to authenticate the game for offline play. We have chosen not to use SecuROM in any version of Dragon Age that is distributed by EA or BioWare.

I'm aware of their DRM announcement and that was not what I was referring to.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.  What I was referring to is the idea that EA is requiring large patches at launch and also relying on DLC content to keep users legitimate.  That's why I wonder what will ship on the Dragon Age disk.  Are we going to get the complete game?  By who's definition?  And so on.

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« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2009, 08:57:55 PM »

The disk will contain a single web shortcut and the manual will be a slip of paper with a key.

Welcome to the future.
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« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2009, 12:18:56 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 29, 2009, 08:57:55 PM

The disk will contain a single web shortcut and the manual will be a slip of paper with a key.

Welcome to the future.

 icon_biggrin


Wait that's not funny.
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« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2009, 12:45:26 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 29, 2009, 05:58:23 AM


do you know anyone still on dialup?

yeah Huw is on Dial-up for a week,LOL......*clears throat*...sorry Huw icon_confused
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« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2009, 03:44:54 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 29, 2009, 08:57:55 PM

The disk will contain a single web shortcut and the manual will be a slip of paper with a key.

Welcome to the future.

That's more than you get when you buy a game on Steam, and you guys eat that shit up.
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2009, 04:07:35 AM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on June 30, 2009, 03:44:54 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 29, 2009, 08:57:55 PM

The disk will contain a single web shortcut and the manual will be a slip of paper with a key.

Welcome to the future.

That's more than you get when you buy a game on Steam, and you guys eat that shit up.

Some people don't like digital (which I assume includes you) and others prefer the physical copy because their internet connection isn't that robust.  Either way, if EA is selling something in a store but then requires a massive download to play, it's a bit deceptive even if there are plenty of people that won't be bothered by it.

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« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2009, 04:52:32 AM »

I feel like the two sides of this argument are discussing two completely different things. The people who are against this way of dealing with piracy keep stating that games will eventually be released incomplete, requiring a download to get the whole experience. Of course this won't happen. Don't be silly!

What's happening is that more companies offer something extra for the game, something that will extend or increase your enjoyment of the game without crippling it by not being present. Once again, The Sims 3 is a good example of how this is going to be approached. The game box contains the entire game. Nothing is missing. You could have nothing but that box and still keep playing the game for ages. If you register your game though, you get access to a whole new city to place your sims in, which adds value on top of the already solid game. You also get a bit of free money to use on the Sims store, which adds even more value. Is the game a demo because these things weren't included in the box? Of course not!
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« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2009, 10:44:03 AM »

Stop being so damn reasonable TiLT! Let people have their pet peeves in peace ;-)
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« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2009, 01:20:42 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on June 30, 2009, 03:44:54 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 29, 2009, 08:57:55 PM

The disk will contain a single web shortcut and the manual will be a slip of paper with a key.

Welcome to the future.

That's more than you get when you buy a game on Steam, and you guys eat that shit up.

I'm not a fan of Steam except for multiplayer like TF2, which is excels at. What I like about Steam is the lower pricing and bargains you can get. Also being able to purchase from home and play the game on any PC is a benefit as well.

If Steam did a better job at Social Networking, it could really grab alot more people in.
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« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2009, 04:35:04 PM »

stupid CEO,  sure some of you games are free to play so there is nothing to pirate, but most of your games aren't.  So piracy is still a huge problem for you and your company  Its a very stupid marketing ploy.  Why go and stir a hornets nest?

You dont dare hackers,  the whole point of being a hacker is basically the challenge.  Why offer them one?

 Clueless execs.
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TiLT
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« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2009, 05:58:51 PM »

Quote from: tcweidner on June 30, 2009, 04:35:04 PM

You dont dare hackers,  the whole point of being a hacker is basically the challenge.  Why offer them one?

It's not a challenge for the crackers. In fact, it's so rudimentary and boring (read: not glorious) that they probably won't bother. Your thinking isn't exactly the same as the pirates'.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2009, 06:06:32 PM »

I dunno -- this reminds me of the CEO of that Lifelock personal identity anti-theft company flaunting his social security number in TV ads because he was "so confident" in their protection. I recall some news articles saying the result was a lot of hackers did in fact steal some of his personal info and cause other chaos.

I think CEOs in general need a trusted lieutenant who's going to tell them something is an idiotic idea before they open their mouth.  icon_razz
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tcweidner
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« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2009, 06:37:15 PM »

Quote
It's not a challenge for the crackers. In fact, it's so rudimentary and boring (read: not glorious) that they probably won't bother. Your thinking isn't exactly the same as the pirates'.
 who wont bother the few real hackers out there?  they would never bother to begin with.  Will the thousands of wanna be hackers see this as a challange?  you bet.  

LIke me telling some thugs walking down the street, I dare you to steal my silver car, ( heh its a rental)  failing to realize the other 3 cars siting in my drive way are not rentals.

You dont dare people.  They steal shit for even less reasons.

The definition of hacker has changed,  it basically covers anything from truly hacking into servers, to cracking software, to simply using cheat programs in games.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 06:40:48 PM by tcweidner » Logged

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Canuck
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« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2009, 09:13:07 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 30, 2009, 04:52:32 AM

I feel like the two sides of this argument are discussing two completely different things. The people who are against this way of dealing with piracy keep stating that games will eventually be released incomplete, requiring a download to get the whole experience. Of course this won't happen. Don't be silly!

What's happening is that more companies offer something extra for the game, something that will extend or increase your enjoyment of the game without crippling it by not being present. Once again, The Sims 3 is a good example of how this is going to be approached. The game box contains the entire game. Nothing is missing. You could have nothing but that box and still keep playing the game for ages. If you register your game though, you get access to a whole new city to place your sims in, which adds value on top of the already solid game. You also get a bit of free money to use on the Sims store, which adds even more value. Is the game a demo because these things weren't included in the box? Of course not!


This almost makes sense-except when you consider the quotation of the 4th post where it is stated that a 3GB update was needed to be installed in order to play.
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TiLT
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« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2009, 09:37:39 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on July 01, 2009, 09:13:07 AM

This almost makes sense-except when you consider the quotation of the 4th post where it is stated that a 3GB update was needed to be installed in order to play.

Have you asked any of those of us who play Sims 3 if we had to download that update? I didn't. What's going on here is probably a form of copy protection used for review copies of the game. By making them jump through this hoop, you complicate any leaking to the warez scene, hopefully delaying a pirated release enough that the legal version gets out first.
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