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Author Topic: "How a PlayStation speculator misread the market and lost"  (Read 7718 times)
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Brendan
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« on: February 06, 2007, 08:34:54 PM »

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070205.GAMER05/TPStory/TPNational/Ontario/

Ouch - he waited until after the peak values because he assumed they'd keep climbing until Christmas.  I guess it must've seemed like a safe bet given previous console launches.
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2007, 08:48:47 PM »

Here's the problem right here:

Quote
use the profit to buy an engagement ring for his girlfriend -- the one who brought him the clothes and the food, whom he has been dating for seven years and whom he has known since Grade 2.

Dating that long, with someone he's that familiar with, there just has to be some kind of issue with committment and maybe mental health. Tongue
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2007, 08:56:53 PM »

Quote
the other acquired on the spot from a scalper, for a steep $1,800.

That scalper is the real genius here.

Also.   Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha   icon_lol
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 09:05:07 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2007, 11:16:46 PM »

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Jason Canam, a clerk at one downtown Toronto game retailer that has two PlayStation 3 systems, said the store hasn't seen much of a demand for the new console. In fact, he has seen a handful of opportunistic profit seekers buy the system only to return it a short while later.

"It's really common to see people buy it, put it on auction, and then take it back," Mr. Canam said. "It just sits on the shelf. [Nintendo] Wii's don't, [sit on the shelf] because they have more to offer. They have what most gamers want."

 icon_lol

Figures that they interview the gamestore worker/Nintendo fanboy with the Mario Underpants on....  icon_wink

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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2007, 12:05:33 AM »

I love the level of denial in the Sony employee's statement

Quote
"I think a lot of people expected us just to ship on Nov. 17, so that no one would be able to buy them through Christmas and you'd see the insane eBay auction prices building up," said Matt Levitan, marketing and public relations manager for Sony Canada, who also said the company had shipped 1.1 million units to North America by the end of December. "We spoiled a few plans for people looking to make a big profit on the PS3."

He talks as if there wouldn't be insane auction prices for Wii's or 360's if that volume of units were shipped by Dec 31 in their respective launch years. In the case of the Wii we know that Nintendo delivered more than that number to NA, yet there were still no where to be found. And Even though MS didn't deliver that many 360's to NA by Dec. 31, 2005, based upon how scarce they were until March I'd be surprised if they would have been as easy to locate as a PS3 was last December.

I'm afraid Mr. Levitin needs to wake up and smell the roses. As far as I'm concerned his comments are just another example of spin doctoring by Sony marketing.
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2007, 12:19:49 AM »

lmao HaHaHa Roflmao.. WTF was that greedy ass bastard waiting for..to take advantage of real gamers? finger
 icon_twistedGOOD FOR HIS STUIP ASS. icon_twisted
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2007, 12:24:54 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on February 06, 2007, 08:56:53 PM

Quote
the other acquired on the spot from a scalper, for a steep $1,800.

That scalper is the real genius here.

Buy high sell high!  Wait...
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2007, 12:48:16 AM »

Quote from: kronovan on February 07, 2007, 12:05:33 AM

I love the level of denial in the Sony employee's statement

Quote
"I think a lot of people expected us just to ship on Nov. 17, so that no one would be able to buy them through Christmas and you'd see the insane eBay auction prices building up," said Matt Levitan, marketing and public relations manager for Sony Canada, who also said the company had shipped 1.1 million units to North America by the end of December. "We spoiled a few plans for people looking to make a big profit on the PS3."

He talks as if there wouldn't be insane auction prices for Wii's or 360's if that volume of units were shipped by Dec 31 in their respective launch years. In the case of the Wii we know that Nintendo delivered more than that number to NA, yet there were still no where to be found. And Even though MS didn't deliver that many 360's to NA by Dec. 31, 2005, based upon how scarce they were until March I'd be surprised if they would have been as easy to locate as a PS3 was last December.

I'm afraid Mr. Levitin needs to wake up and smell the roses. As far as I'm concerned his comments are just another example of spin doctoring by Sony marketing.

Umm....alright then.

Nintendo sold out everywhere this year due to the low price and the 'Nintendo' factor. They have a legion of fans that will buy anything with Nintendo stamped on it. They have the most hardcore fanboys of any console. It's just nuts. I do think that they did quite well though this Christmas and I will be interested to see if the continue to have this kind of success later this year, especially if the games start to dry up.

Anyway, the PS3 still continues to sell at a brisk pace around here. I see them in store far more frequently than the Wii, but I usually see they are gone within a day or two. The PS3 shipped way more units than people expected them to and it seems to have at least really helped Sony in terms of Blu-Ray sales. The games should really start taking off now as well, with lots of great games coming over the next couple months.

Virtua Fighter 5, Motorstorm, Warhawk and Lair to name a few. smile
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2007, 01:29:47 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 07, 2007, 12:48:16 AM


Nintendo sold out everywhere this year due to the low price and the 'Nintendo' factor. They have a legion of fans that will buy anything with Nintendo stamped on it. They have the most hardcore fanboys of any console. It's just nuts. I do think that they did quite well though this Christmas and I will be interested to see if the continue to have this kind of success later this year, especially if the games start to dry up.

I'll buy any system which Nintendo will release Zelda or Metroid on... but I don't think that makes someone a fanboy.

And I'll have you know I never purchased the VirtualBoy but actually did have every other Nintendo system...
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2007, 01:41:57 AM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 07, 2007, 12:48:16 AM

Nintendo sold out everywhere this year due to the low price and the 'Nintendo' factor. They have a legion of fans that will buy anything with Nintendo stamped on it. They have the most hardcore fanboys of any console.

Not to misquote you Hetz, but I only included a portion of your comments as I don't want this thread to become too long and unreadable.

Anyways... in regards to the legions of Nintendo fanboys you refer to, if they do in fact exist, they must have gone into hibernation for the release of the GameCube. I've bought the last 3 generations of Nintendo consoles on launch day -yes you can call me a fanboy- and I can tell you that the Cube was anything but scarce. I walked into a big box store at noon on release date to be greeted with a stack of Cubes, whereas today that same store has notices posted in their window stating they have no Wii's available! If I recall correctly at the end of 2001 Nintendo hadn't even sold a 1/2 million units in NA! I'd say the success of the Wii has more to do with Nintendo giving the gaming public what they want similar to what Sony did with the PS2.

I'm not disagreeing that the PS3 will continue to sell; I still think the PS3 may very well eventually win this console gen. But what I'm saying is that Sony needs to shed the cocky and arrogant attitude they've built up over time. And Mr. Levitins comments' are just another example of that attitude. Trying to brush off the crash in the PS3 eBay market due to the fact they shipped 1.1 million units isn't exactly facing reality.
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2007, 01:48:30 AM »

I guess I missed that: I'll second your statement that the Wii's success can hardly be attributed to the hordes of rampaging fanbois.
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2007, 01:34:53 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on February 07, 2007, 01:48:30 AM

I'll second your statement that the Wii's success can hardly be attributed to the hordes of rampaging fanbois.

Thirded.  My wife saw the Wii on display at Target, and browsed the games a little bit afterwards, saying a couple times 'that one looks cute!'.  She doesn't play a lot of games, but I could 'sell' buying a Wii at home about fifty times easier than a PS3.  (Given my choice, I'd rather have a PS3 for the Blue Ray.  I swore I wouldn't buy 2 consoles this generation...  If I did though, I think the price and wife-factor would win out and I'd grab the Wii)
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2007, 01:47:19 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on February 07, 2007, 01:41:57 AM

Anyways... in regards to the legions of Nintendo fanboys you refer to, if they do in fact exist, they must have gone into hibernation for the release of the GameCube.

Actually, the Cube outsold the Wii domestically it's launch month and IIRC it's second month as well.  But the Wii is clearly more supply constrained than the Cube and the Cube didn't have a worldwide launch draining it's supplies.

But I agree with the rest of what you said and vehemently disagree with Hetz's take.  The buzz and excitement for the Wii eclipses anything Nintendo had going for them during the Cube launch.  And color me shocked when, out of the blue this past weekend, my mom asks me about the Wii (evidently one of her friends of works loves the thing).  So she came over and played some Wii Sports, and is now talking about getting one. If my parents do indeed get a Wii it will the first video game console they've played regularly since Colecovision. 
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2007, 03:08:27 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 07, 2007, 01:47:19 PM

But I agree with the rest of what you said and vehemently disagree with Hetz's take. 

Hetz, being on the front lines of all of this, I gotta tell you that you're way off base here.
The success of the Wii isn't about fanboys, though Nintendo certainly has their share.
(And truthfully, leading up to the Wii launch, a lot of the real Nintendo fanboys were
not happy about the Wii and determined to hang on to their Gamecubes/N64s.)

This is about a fun, relatively affordable console that has gotten massive amounts
of positive mainstream press.
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2007, 03:19:16 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 07, 2007, 12:48:16 AM

The games should really start taking off now as well, with lots of great games coming over the next couple months.

Virtua Fighter 5, Motorstorm, Warhawk and Lair to name a few. smile

Now see, if you had said White Knight Story, Final Fantasy XIII, and three other exclusive titles and I'd be snapping up a PS3 soon.  Even with $100 bucks off on that EB/GS offer I couldn't justify getting it.  Now with the Wii, well I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the original Gameboy and now I really want a DS Lite and Wii.  I figure with them at least I have several years of back games that I haven't played yet.
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« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2007, 03:28:48 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 07, 2007, 03:19:16 PM

Now see, if you had said White Knight Story, Final Fantasy XIII, and three other exclusive titles and I'd be snapping up a PS3 soon.  Even with $100 bucks off on that EB/GS offer I couldn't justify getting it.  Now with the Wii, well I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the original Gameboy and now I really want a DS Lite and Wii.  I figure with them at least I have several years of back games that I haven't played yet.

You know, if I were to buy a PS3 today, the first games I'd want to play would be Rez and Okami, then...I don't know...DQVIII, FF XII. There are so many PS2 titles out there. At any rate, remember that the 360 launch lineup wasn't exactly stellar--it just didn't have competition in the next-gen space yet. PS3 lineup will catch up in due time.
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« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2007, 03:29:49 PM »

i am sure he will get a decent price just after the european releae if he sells it there,unless ebay dont reactivate his account,he should try other sites where he can sell it...it will prolly sell out here
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2007, 04:30:33 PM »

This conversation just wont go away. PS3 will be fine in a few years... They will NEVER have market domination like they have in the past, they have made themselves a BOUTIQUE item... thats for sure. I will get one, at some point when more games are available that I want. 600.00 keeps them out of the mainstream thats for sure.
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« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2007, 04:57:34 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 07, 2007, 12:48:16 AM

Quote from: kronovan on February 07, 2007, 12:05:33 AM

I love the level of denial in the Sony employee's statement

Quote
"I think a lot of people expected us just to ship on Nov. 17, so that no one would be able to buy them through Christmas and you'd see the insane eBay auction prices building up," said Matt Levitan, marketing and public relations manager for Sony Canada, who also said the company had shipped 1.1 million units to North America by the end of December. "We spoiled a few plans for people looking to make a big profit on the PS3."

He talks as if there wouldn't be insane auction prices for Wii's or 360's if that volume of units were shipped by Dec 31 in their respective launch years. In the case of the Wii we know that Nintendo delivered more than that number to NA, yet there were still no where to be found. And Even though MS didn't deliver that many 360's to NA by Dec. 31, 2005, based upon how scarce they were until March I'd be surprised if they would have been as easy to locate as a PS3 was last December.

I'm afraid Mr. Levitin needs to wake up and smell the roses. As far as I'm concerned his comments are just another example of spin doctoring by Sony marketing.

Umm....alright then.

Nintendo sold out everywhere this year due to the low price and the 'Nintendo' factor. They have a legion of fans that will buy anything with Nintendo stamped on it. They have the most hardcore fanboys of any console. It's just nuts. I do think that they did quite well though this Christmas and I will be interested to see if the continue to have this kind of success later this year, especially if the games start to dry up.

Anyway, the PS3 still continues to sell at a brisk pace around here. I see them in store far more frequently than the Wii, but I usually see they are gone within a day or two. The PS3 shipped way more units than people expected them to and it seems to have at least really helped Sony in terms of Blu-Ray sales. The games should really start taking off now as well, with lots of great games coming over the next couple months.

Virtua Fighter 5, Motorstorm, Warhawk and Lair to name a few. smile

Am I a Nintendo fanboy? I was A LOT more excited about getting a Wii, for gaming purposes, than a PS3, which I only bought at launch, to sell, but that doesn't make me a fanboy. Defend the PS3, go right ahead, thats your boy there and thats fine, but you really insult the Wii fans, and the system itself, when you start throwing out the "fanboy" word, at fans of the Wii.

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, the PS3 just doesn't appeal to people like the Wii does? That $600 price and the lack of really quality launch titles, is why I see a dozen PS3's at Wal-Mart, a pyramid of them at the Best Buy in Johnson City, and our Gamestop's having plenty also. The Wii on the other hand, has a lot of appeal, outside of the price, and its own novelty.
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« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2007, 04:59:58 PM »

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 07, 2007, 04:30:33 PM

This conversation just wont go away. PS3 will be fine in a few years... They will NEVER have market domination like they have in the past, they have made themselves a BOUTIQUE item... thats for sure. I will get one, at some point when more games are available that I want. 600.00 keeps them out of the mainstream thats for sure.

Exactly. If it was priced like the 360 is, does anyone really believe there would be stacks of them sitting around? It would sell like gangbusters, but at $600, people start questioning it, and right now, they seem to be passing on them. When they drop the price, I will jump on it, but for right now, outside of it's Blu-Ray capabilities, it does nothing to justify its price tag.
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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2007, 05:01:34 PM »

Quote from: juniordan on February 07, 2007, 12:19:49 AM

lmao HaHaHa Roflmao.. WTF was that greedy ass bastard waiting for..to take advantage of real gamers? finger
 icon_twistedGOOD FOR HIS STUIP ASS. icon_twisted

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE POOR GAMERS!!!!!!!

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« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2007, 05:10:09 PM »

Haha, dumbass.
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« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2007, 05:41:01 PM »

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 04:59:58 PM

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 07, 2007, 04:30:33 PM

This conversation just wont go away. PS3 will be fine in a few years... They will NEVER have market domination like they have in the past, they have made themselves a BOUTIQUE item... thats for sure. I will get one, at some point when more games are available that I want. 600.00 keeps them out of the mainstream thats for sure.

Exactly. If it was priced like the 360 is, does anyone really believe there would be stacks of them sitting around? It would sell like gangbusters, but at $600, people start questioning it, and right now, they seem to be passing on them. When they drop the price, I will jump on it, but for right now, outside of it's Blu-Ray capabilities, it does nothing to justify its price tag.

Just a quick correction: $500.

gellar
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« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2007, 05:49:12 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 05:41:01 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 04:59:58 PM

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 07, 2007, 04:30:33 PM

This conversation just wont go away. PS3 will be fine in a few years... They will NEVER have market domination like they have in the past, they have made themselves a BOUTIQUE item... thats for sure. I will get one, at some point when more games are available that I want. 600.00 keeps them out of the mainstream thats for sure.

Exactly. If it was priced like the 360 is, does anyone really believe there would be stacks of them sitting around? It would sell like gangbusters, but at $600, people start questioning it, and right now, they seem to be passing on them. When they drop the price, I will jump on it, but for right now, outside of it's Blu-Ray capabilities, it does nothing to justify its price tag.

Just a quick correction: $500.

gellar

They are $499 and $599. I don't even count the $500 model because you can't find them thanks to Sony holding them back.
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« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2007, 05:52:30 PM »

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 05:49:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 05:41:01 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 04:59:58 PM

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 07, 2007, 04:30:33 PM

This conversation just wont go away. PS3 will be fine in a few years... They will NEVER have market domination like they have in the past, they have made themselves a BOUTIQUE item... thats for sure. I will get one, at some point when more games are available that I want. 600.00 keeps them out of the mainstream thats for sure.

Exactly. If it was priced like the 360 is, does anyone really believe there would be stacks of them sitting around? It would sell like gangbusters, but at $600, people start questioning it, and right now, they seem to be passing on them. When they drop the price, I will jump on it, but for right now, outside of it's Blu-Ray capabilities, it does nothing to justify its price tag.

Just a quick correction: $500.

gellar

They are $499 and $599. I don't even count the $500 model because you can't find them thanks to Sony holding them back.

So to that end, should we not count the Wii cause no one can find any?

I don't understand your logic.

gellar
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« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2007, 06:04:44 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 05:52:30 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 05:49:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 05:41:01 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 04:59:58 PM

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 07, 2007, 04:30:33 PM

This conversation just wont go away. PS3 will be fine in a few years... They will NEVER have market domination like they have in the past, they have made themselves a BOUTIQUE item... thats for sure. I will get one, at some point when more games are available that I want. 600.00 keeps them out of the mainstream thats for sure.

Exactly. If it was priced like the 360 is, does anyone really believe there would be stacks of them sitting around? It would sell like gangbusters, but at $600, people start questioning it, and right now, they seem to be passing on them. When they drop the price, I will jump on it, but for right now, outside of it's Blu-Ray capabilities, it does nothing to justify its price tag.

Just a quick correction: $500.

gellar

They are $499 and $599. I don't even count the $500 model because you can't find them thanks to Sony holding them back.

So to that end, should we not count the Wii cause no one can find any?

I don't understand your logic.

gellar

Well, 499 is still 200 more than 299, which is the lower priced 360.  This argument (on both sides) is ancillary to the thread topic.
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« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2007, 06:05:26 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 05:52:30 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 05:49:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 05:41:01 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 04:59:58 PM

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 07, 2007, 04:30:33 PM

This conversation just wont go away. PS3 will be fine in a few years... They will NEVER have market domination like they have in the past, they have made themselves a BOUTIQUE item... thats for sure. I will get one, at some point when more games are available that I want. 600.00 keeps them out of the mainstream thats for sure.

Exactly. If it was priced like the 360 is, does anyone really believe there would be stacks of them sitting around? It would sell like gangbusters, but at $600, people start questioning it, and right now, they seem to be passing on them. When they drop the price, I will jump on it, but for right now, outside of it's Blu-Ray capabilities, it does nothing to justify its price tag.

Just a quick correction: $500.

gellar

They are $499 and $599. I don't even count the $500 model because you can't find them thanks to Sony holding them back.

So to that end, should we not count the Wii cause no one can find any?

I don't understand your logic.

gellar

Gellar, listen to me ok, one is MIA because of demand (Wii), one is MIA due to Sony tinkering with the market, and migrating potential customers to the more expensive version. The two things couldn't be more different. I think you need to re-read what I was saying, I was talking about why people weren't flocking to the PS3, using price as an example.
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« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2007, 06:07:40 PM »

FWIW, I've seen the $500 PS3 pretty frequently available online but it seems much more scarce at brick and mortars. 
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« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2007, 06:10:15 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 07, 2007, 06:07:40 PM

FWIW, I've seen the $500 PS3 pretty frequently available online but it seems much more scarce at brick and mortars. 

I saw one, on a shelf at Best Buy, 2 weeks ago or so, by itself, and in area behind it, a pyramid built of 60GB PS3's. I have never seen one at a Wal-Mart or at Circuit City. It's just weird how there are so many more of the 60's.
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« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2007, 06:14:53 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 07, 2007, 06:04:44 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 05:52:30 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 05:49:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 05:41:01 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 04:59:58 PM

Quote from: HankRaptor on February 07, 2007, 04:30:33 PM

This conversation just wont go away. PS3 will be fine in a few years... They will NEVER have market domination like they have in the past, they have made themselves a BOUTIQUE item... thats for sure. I will get one, at some point when more games are available that I want. 600.00 keeps them out of the mainstream thats for sure.

Exactly. If it was priced like the 360 is, does anyone really believe there would be stacks of them sitting around? It would sell like gangbusters, but at $600, people start questioning it, and right now, they seem to be passing on them. When they drop the price, I will jump on it, but for right now, outside of it's Blu-Ray capabilities, it does nothing to justify its price tag.

Just a quick correction: $500.

gellar

They are $499 and $599. I don't even count the $500 model because you can't find them thanks to Sony holding them back.

So to that end, should we not count the Wii cause no one can find any?

I don't understand your logic.

gellar

Well, 499 is still 200 more than 299, which is the lower priced 360.  This argument (on both sides) is ancillary to the thread topic.

But the $299 machine is largely useless, where as the $500 PS3 is quite comparable to the $400 360.

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« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2007, 06:20:09 PM »

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 06:05:26 PM

Gellar, listen to me ok, one is MIA because of demand (Wii), one is MIA due to Sony tinkering with the market, and migrating potential customers to the more expensive version. The two things couldn't be more different. I think you need to re-read what I was saying, I was talking about why people weren't flocking to the PS3, using price as an example.

I think you're speculating a bit much there, mate.  I do agree that there are considerably less 20GB PS3s out there, but that's just as likely as Sony fucking up and expecting to sell more of the 60GB model (like the XBox sold more with their higher end version).  Sony just boned it when they made their low end actually functional and the smarter consumer figured that out.  I just wanted to point out that the $600 argument, which I've seen tossed out quite a lot, is erroneous.  A PS3 is $500.  Perhaps more people would be flocking to the cheaper PS3 if it was available, making it quite similar to the Wii situation right now.  That conclusion wouldn't be too difficult to make.  Now whether $500 is too much to spend on a glorified Blu-Ray player with 1 good game at the moment... I agree with.  And I have one (the $600 version, actually).

I also find it funny that everytime Sony mis-steps, it is immediately read by 90% of this forum as Sony's fault.  Whereas when MS or Nintendo mis-step, it's never their fault.  I understand Sony has brought a lot of that upon themselves, but it's getting comical at this point.

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« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2007, 06:21:17 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 06:14:53 PM

But the $299 machine is largely useless, where as the $500 PS3 is quite comparable to the $400 360.

gellar

"Largely useless" is a vast overstatement.  

Cost aversion is certainly one reason people are choosing the Wii over other options (or choosing the PS2, for that matter), and what matters when talking about general consumer behavior is the perception of the general consumer.  Walmart prices their stuff three cents cheaper than competitors in many cases to drive consumer perception.  Microsoft offers a $299 SKU to drive consumer perception.  These decisions are tactical (how are we priced relative to our competitors?)  as well as financial (how much can I afford to sell these for based on the COGs?).
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« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2007, 06:25:35 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 07, 2007, 06:21:17 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 06:14:53 PM

But the $299 machine is largely useless, where as the $500 PS3 is quite comparable to the $400 360.

gellar

"Largely useless" is a vast overstatement. 

Could not disagree more.  I cannot fathom a single instance where anyone in their right mind could recommend the $299 version to any type of consumer.

Quote
Cost aversion is certainly one reason people are choosing the Wii over other options (or choosing the PS2, for that matter), and what matters when talking about general consumer behavior is the perception of the general consumer.  Walmart prices their stuff three cents cheaper than competitors in many cases to drive consumer perception.  Microsoft offers a $299 SKU to drive consumer perception.  These decisions are tactical (how are we priced relative to our competitors?)  as well as financial (how much can I afford to sell these for based on the COGs?).

Certainly true.  Sony is losing the perception battle, largely because MS has forced everyone into the mindset of "the cheaper version is useless."  So thus they compare the high end unit to the high end unit, when that's not a fair perception really.  Good move by MS.  Poor move by Sony.  That being said, the PS3 did outsell the 360 in its first 2 months of launch (I believe), so Sony isn't doing too badly at this point.

Note that I say this as a MS shareholder from my days there, so I'm quite keen for the 360 to do well.  I have money on that stock.  I have zero stake in Sony.

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« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2007, 06:28:00 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 06:20:09 PM

I also find it funny that everytime Sony mis-steps, it is immediately read by 90% of this forum as Sony's fault.  Whereas when MS or Nintendo mis-step, it's never their fault.  I understand Sony has brought a lot of that upon themselves, but it's getting comical at this point.

gellar

In fact i think it is largely Sony's fault that the PS3 is widely considered to cost $600.  With different marketing and production levels they could change that perception.  But it appears Sony has no idea how to generate positve buzz about the PS3.  I think in future business classes the PS3 will be used as an example for how not to bring a new product to market.
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« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2007, 06:34:46 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 06:25:35 PM

Could not disagree more.  I cannot fathom a single instance where anyone in their right mind could recommend the $299 version to any type of consumer.

I would never recommend it to my peers - who are hardcore gamers.  It's certainly capable of playing Xbox 360 games for the minimum possible expenditure, and you aren't locked out of upgrading if you eventually decide you want to.  And yes, I know you need a memory card, more economically efficient to buy the upper level SKU, etc, etc.  If the metric is "play a certain class of game for least dollars," it succeeds.

Quote
Certainly true.  Sony is losing the perception battle, largely because MS has forced everyone into the mindset of "the cheaper version is useless."  So thus they compare the high end unit to the high end unit, when that's not a fair perception really.  Good move by MS.  Poor move by Sony. 

I don't think the mindset is "cheaper versions are useless."  I think it's something more like "I want to play the best looking big-budget games, and the 'nice' 360 is cheaper than even the cheapest PS3."  I think it probably helps that the perception of the cheaper 360 is that it can be upgraded to be equivalent to the more expensive SKU, whereas there are always things that'll be missing from your 20gb PS3. 

Additionally, I don't think that Blu-ray is driving any sizeable number of sales because most people a) haven't heard of it and b) can't really differentiate it from their DVDs.  DVD was clearly better than VHS when the PS2 shipped - no rewinding!
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« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2007, 06:35:38 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 06:20:09 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 06:05:26 PM

Gellar, listen to me ok, one is MIA because of demand (Wii), one is MIA due to Sony tinkering with the market, and migrating potential customers to the more expensive version. The two things couldn't be more different. I think you need to re-read what I was saying, I was talking about why people weren't flocking to the PS3, using price as an example.

I think you're speculating a bit much there, mate.  I do agree that there are considerably less 20GB PS3s out there, but that's just as likely as Sony fucking up and expecting to sell more of the 60GB model (like the XBox sold more with their higher end version).  Sony just boned it when they made their low end actually functional and the smarter consumer figured that out.  I just wanted to point out that the $600 argument, which I've seen tossed out quite a lot, is erroneous.  A PS3 is $500.  Perhaps more people would be flocking to the cheaper PS3 if it was available, making it quite similar to the Wii situation right now.  That conclusion wouldn't be too difficult to make.  Now whether $500 is too much to spend on a glorified Blu-Ray player with 1 good game at the moment... I agree with.  And I have one (the $600 version, actually).

I also find it funny that everytime Sony mis-steps, it is immediately read by 90% of this forum as Sony's fault.  Whereas when MS or Nintendo mis-step, it's never their fault.  I understand Sony has brought a lot of that upon themselves, but it's getting comical at this point.

gellar

What is comical is the number of misteps Sony has made. Be it the scaler, the shortage of launch machines, the unnecessary forcing of BR drives onto the public, etc, etc, etc, they have stepped into a lot of cow patties with the PS3, and it gets noticed.

You maybe don't remember, but when the 360 came out, I ripped Microsoft to pieces. They were killing the XBOX before its time was up, the launch was an unmitigated disaster, the quality control was non-existent, and the 360 needed another 3 months or so before it should have been released. Maybe you are referring to others, but when it comes to consoles, ol' Jblank is an equal opportunity critic.

Further examining things, post next gen launch, what has Nintendo and Microsoft done wrong? Nintendo's system needs more games (and systems) and its online stuff needs some tuning, but the Wii launch has been a success and thusfar, I don't hear a lot of complaining about the Wii. Microsoft has extended the 360 warranty, improved the consoles functionality since launch, and done a good job at adding features, giving us new games on XBLA, and had a great 2006 for gaming. I can think of a few things that Microsoft can work on, namely the sound output of the HD DVD add on, but right now, without nitpicking, its hard for me to criticize them, or Nintendo.
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« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2007, 06:38:36 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 07, 2007, 06:21:17 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 06:14:53 PM

But the $299 machine is largely useless, where as the $500 PS3 is quite comparable to the $400 360.

gellar

"Largely useless" is a vast overstatement.  

No, it's not. Without a hard drive, the $299 360 is pretty useless. You can't save games, you can't download anything from Xbox Live, you can't do really much of anything. You also only get a wired controller.

With the PS3, you get everything but the wireless internet and some card readers. Gameplay is not degraded on the lower priced version of the PS3, like it is on the 360 "Core" pack without the hard drive. I think not making a hard drive standard on every 360 was the biggest mistake that MS made with the 360, so far.
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« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2007, 06:40:36 PM »

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 06:35:38 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 06:20:09 PM

Quote from: jblank on February 07, 2007, 06:05:26 PM

Gellar, listen to me ok, one is MIA because of demand (Wii), one is MIA due to Sony tinkering with the market, and migrating potential customers to the more expensive version. The two things couldn't be more different. I think you need to re-read what I was saying, I was talking about why people weren't flocking to the PS3, using price as an example.

I think you're speculating a bit much there, mate.  I do agree that there are considerably less 20GB PS3s out there, but that's just as likely as Sony fucking up and expecting to sell more of the 60GB model (like the XBox sold more with their higher end version).  Sony just boned it when they made their low end actually functional and the smarter consumer figured that out.  I just wanted to point out that the $600 argument, which I've seen tossed out quite a lot, is erroneous.  A PS3 is $500.  Perhaps more people would be flocking to the cheaper PS3 if it was available, making it quite similar to the Wii situation right now.  That conclusion wouldn't be too difficult to make.  Now whether $500 is too much to spend on a glorified Blu-Ray player with 1 good game at the moment... I agree with.  And I have one (the $600 version, actually).

I also find it funny that everytime Sony mis-steps, it is immediately read by 90% of this forum as Sony's fault.  Whereas when MS or Nintendo mis-step, it's never their fault.  I understand Sony has brought a lot of that upon themselves, but it's getting comical at this point.

gellar

What is comical is the number of misteps Sony has made. Be it the scaler, the shortage of launch machines, the unnecessary forcing of BR drives onto the public, etc, etc, etc, they have stepped into a lot of cow patties with the PS3, and it gets noticed.

You maybe don't remember, but when the 360 came out, I ripped Microsoft to pieces. They were killing the XBOX before its time was up, the launch was an unmitigated disaster, the quality control was non-existent, and the 360 needed another 3 months or so before it should have been released. Maybe you are referring to others, but when it comes to consoles, ol' Jblank is an equal opportunity critic.

Further examining things, post next gen launch, what has Nintendo and Microsoft done wrong? Nintendo's system needs more games (and systems) and its online stuff needs some tuning, but the Wii launch has been a success and thusfar, I don't hear a lot of complaining about the Wii. Microsoft has extended the 360 warranty, improved the consoles functionality since launch, and done a good job at adding features, giving us new games on XBLA, and had a great 2006 for gaming. I can think of a few things that Microsoft can work on, namely the sound output of the HD DVD add on, but right now, without nitpicking, its hard for me to criticize them, or Nintendo.

No, what is really comical is how some people are reacting to their "misteps".  nod
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« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2007, 06:41:53 PM »

You act as though the PS3's issues at launch, and before, was just no big deal. We know, it's your console of choice, you will defend it to your last breath, but come on man, with an open mind, for once, realize that they made some serious blunders.
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« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2007, 06:44:08 PM »

Quote from: Hetz on February 07, 2007, 06:38:36 PM

Quote from: Brendan on February 07, 2007, 06:21:17 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 07, 2007, 06:14:53 PM

But the $299 machine is largely useless, where as the $500 PS3 is quite comparable to the $400 360.

gellar

"Largely useless" is a vast overstatement.  

No, it's not. Without a hard drive, the $299 360 is pretty useless. You can't save games, you can't download anything from Xbox Live, you can't do really much of anything. You also only get a wired controller.

With the PS3, you get everything but the wireless internet and some card readers. Gameplay is not degraded on the lower priced version of the PS3, like it is on the 360 "Core" pack without the hard drive. I think not making a hard drive standard on every 360 was the biggest mistake that MS made with the 360, so far.

It's not the biggest mistake, the lack of initial quality control was, but it still is a big mistake. Look for that to get corrected somewhere down the line though, either by drastically reducing the HDD price, so Core owners can get it, or by offering larger capacity memory cards. I've just got a hunch.......
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