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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #120 on: September 15, 2006, 05:13:05 PM »

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They still gotta have games people wanna play, and like it or not, Halo and Gran Turismo carry a lot of weight with consoles, and while I enjoy Mario, I am not sure its the system seller that the others are.

Mario is still *huge*.  New Super Mario Brothers for the DS has sold well in excess of 3 million copies worldwide after only a few months on the shelves and even the relatively poorly received Super Mario Sunshine has sold over 2.0+ million plus in the US alone with a couple million more overseas. Nintendo first party games are the very defintion of system sellers primarily since third party support usually sucks so bad that's the only reason they sell at all.  Despite Halo, the Xbox was really a third party powerhouse (MS actually doesn't have many strong selling first or second party IPs under their belt).

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Fine, keep the costs down, no problem, I get that, but they then price the system right near the level of the 360, something that is a HUGE error in my opinion. Fifty bucks more is no big deal, ONE HUNDRED bucks more catches eyes, and Nintendo, in my opinion, just cost themselves a ton of initial sales, by overcharging for their system.

I think it's too early to talk about costing themselves initial sales.  If Nintendo can sell through the majority of their projected four million units this Holiday season, then it was clearly the right price as well as literally halving the install base gap with 360 in less than two months on the market.  If they don't sell through most of the Wiis then, yeah, the price was clearly a mistake.  And a comporably outfitted 360 would include a memory card ($40) and wireless ($99) on top of the $299 core.  Since a memory card itself really is a must even if you don't need wireless, the gap is actually closer to $100 than you might think.  Not to mention that the retail presence of the 360 core SKU is minimal compared to the premium edition. 
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« Reply #121 on: September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM »

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.
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« Reply #122 on: September 15, 2006, 05:54:43 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.

Nah, don't do that. For the record, I'm no fanboy of any company. I have purchsed 3 consoles in the last year: one MS (360), one Sony (PSP) and one [actually multiple]  Nintendo (DS). Prior to that my last console was an Atari and came with those hi-res pixels you could stub a toe on mentioned in another thread. I'm going off of my own feelings, some supposition, and what I see from customers every day.

For the record, when I was envisioning a "non-gamer" I wasn't thinking of a 13 year-old, but more of an adult non-gamer looking for something for their family (probably because I'm a mid-30s w family until-recently-non-console-gamer).

At any rate, I agree...I *DO* think the Wii will finish in third place...at least in the US. However, I see it doing better than the Gamecube did (the GC really had nothing going for it aside from the stock Nintendo franchises whereas the Wii has something unique). It also wouldn't surprise me if there were a major console revision for the Wii before either the 360 or the PS3.

Think about this for a second....

We can all agree (I think) that the biggest part of the development of the Wii probably wasn't custom graphics solutions or processors. The biggest innovation here, and what took the most development was the controller, right? So what if...say 2-3 years down the road, the relatively high-end technology powering PS3/360 has become much more affordable and Nintendo is able to put together a "Wii 1.5" that brings Wii into a similar ballpark in terms of CPU/Graphics without having to spend massive amounts of time and energy developing custom hardware solutions from scratch. At that point, they'd have similar horses and the uniqueness of the controller setup.

At any rate, it really all depends on how the wiimote is received. An awful lot of people derided the DS as a gimmick at launch, but that has turned out fairly well for Nintendo. Time will tell how the Wii does.
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« Reply #123 on: September 15, 2006, 06:05:44 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.

Wha?  Where in any of my comments am I being unreasonable? 
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« Reply #124 on: September 15, 2006, 06:13:07 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.

Let me ask this:  If Nintendo manages to have a successful console with the Wii does that make our 360's somehow the losing team?  Is it an issue of threat?  If millions of people love the system and wave their Wiimotes around like madmen does that spell the end of gaming as a "serious" hobby with all of its AA, HDTV, 5.1 & 720p?  What if they do an amazing job of selling this thing?  Is that going to bother you or I or anyone else not employed by Microsoft or Sony?

So people are excited about this?  Big deal.  Why shouldn't they/we/I be excited about it.  It's a new console with a different vibe about it.  Does it mean I'm going to sell my 360 and become an Italian plumber?

Really this is not a Nintendo-biased conversation here.  If you want to see what those are really like head over to GAF or the IGN boards and prepare to lose faith in humanity.  But you also won't find droves of people ready to jump on the OMG Nintendo sux bandwagon that's out there.  We tend to be a pretty balanced, reasonable and well-informed bunch of dudes.

The whole "I give up and I'm going to take my ball and go home" mentality is fine and all but it's really not necessary.  Disagreements and differences of opinions are almost mandatory here (ask me about Resident Evil 4 sometime!   icon_twisted ) but we tend to not get our blood pressure raised like some forums do.
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« Reply #125 on: September 15, 2006, 06:14:32 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 15, 2006, 06:05:44 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.

Wha?  Where in any of my comments am I being unreasonable? 

At this point, I just get the feeling that I am wasting my time trying to show you all the potential potholes the system has in front of it, the message I am giving isn't registering with some of ya. Rather than continue to do "butt heads", I would rather just bow out, than risk tensions getting heated. It's just not worth it.
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« Reply #126 on: September 15, 2006, 06:18:36 PM »

Quote from: warning on September 15, 2006, 06:13:07 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.

Let me ask this:  If Nintendo manages to have a successful console with the Wii does that make our 360's somehow the losing team?  Is it an issue of threat?  If millions of people love the system and wave their Wiimotes around like madmen does that spell the end of gaming as a "serious" hobby with all of its AA, HDTV, 5.1 & 720p?  What if they do an amazing job of selling this thing?  Is that going to bother you or I or anyone else not employed by Microsoft or Sony?

So people are excited about this?  Big deal.  Why shouldn't they/we/I be excited about it.  It's a new console with a different vibe about it.  Does it mean I'm going to sell my 360 and become an Italian plumber?

Really this is not a Nintendo-biased conversation here.  If you want to see what those are really like head over to GAF or the IGN boards and prepare to lose faith in humanity.  But you also won't find droves of people ready to jump on the OMG Nintendo sux bandwagon that's out there.  We tend to be a pretty balanced, reasonable and well-informed bunch of dudes.

The whole "I give up and I'm going to take my ball and go home" mentality is fine and all but it's really not necessary.  Disagreements and differences of opinions are almost mandatory here (ask me about Resident Evil 4 sometime!   icon_twisted ) but we tend to not get our blood pressure raised like some forums do.

I still don't think you guys understand. I am not on some anti-Nintendo bandwagon, hell, I have said repeatedly I am gonna buy the thing. All I am doing is trying to tell you guys that you should not expect this to be the greatest system ever, and tell you why I think this. That really is all I am saying, but some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it, which is far from the truth.

Like I said, its just not worth the chance that someone wrong gets said, or something unintentionally gets taken the wrong way, so for me at least, I would rather throw my hands up and walk away at this point.
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« Reply #127 on: September 15, 2006, 06:27:50 PM »

More ammo that the cost isn't really all that bad:

Since the Wii uses SD memory cards, you can get 512 MB of storage for, what, $8 (I think someone cited that price in a thread on the board)?

To store ANYTHING on a 360 is going to set you back at least $40 for their memory card, and $100 for a hard drive (albeit a 20 GB drive).

Once again, once you start adding things up, $250 really isn't all that bad.  To give a core 360 the minimum ability to be wireless and store data will bring the total to $440; with the Wii, it's $260.
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« Reply #128 on: September 15, 2006, 06:36:53 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 06:18:36 PM

Quote from: warning on September 15, 2006, 06:13:07 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.

Let me ask this:  If Nintendo manages to have a successful console with the Wii does that make our 360's somehow the losing team?  Is it an issue of threat?  If millions of people love the system and wave their Wiimotes around like madmen does that spell the end of gaming as a "serious" hobby with all of its AA, HDTV, 5.1 & 720p?  What if they do an amazing job of selling this thing?  Is that going to bother you or I or anyone else not employed by Microsoft or Sony?

So people are excited about this?  Big deal.  Why shouldn't they/we/I be excited about it.  It's a new console with a different vibe about it.  Does it mean I'm going to sell my 360 and become an Italian plumber?

Really this is not a Nintendo-biased conversation here.  If you want to see what those are really like head over to GAF or the IGN boards and prepare to lose faith in humanity.  But you also won't find droves of people ready to jump on the OMG Nintendo sux bandwagon that's out there.  We tend to be a pretty balanced, reasonable and well-informed bunch of dudes.

The whole "I give up and I'm going to take my ball and go home" mentality is fine and all but it's really not necessary.  Disagreements and differences of opinions are almost mandatory here (ask me about Resident Evil 4 sometime!   icon_twisted ) but we tend to not get our blood pressure raised like some forums do.

I still don't think you guys understand. I am not on some anti-Nintendo bandwagon, hell, I have said repeatedly I am gonna buy the thing. All I am doing is trying to tell you guys that you should not expect this to be the greatest system ever, and tell you why I think this. That really is all I am saying, but some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it, which is far from the truth.

Like I said, its just not worth the chance that someone wrong gets said, or something unintentionally gets taken the wrong way, so for me at least, I would rather throw my hands up and walk away at this point.

If anyone's saying the Wii is going to be the greatest system ever I haven't heard it (unless it was ATB but he's smoking the Mario Mushrooms).  People feel a passion about the things they like.  That's not so bad is it?  I'm sure you have lots of things you feel passionate about and would be happy to debate with someone who was pointing out its negatives.  Really you'll find most people here have very thick skin (as I'm sure you do as well) so it's no big deal.  I do think you saying "some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it" is not a fair characterization of this discussion.  We're just trading facts and opinions here and the people who really like Nintendo's stuff get vocal but I really don't think they get more vocal than the people who really like Microsoft's stuff or Sony's stuff.  It's just that the attention is focused on Nintendo right now with their recent announcements.
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« Reply #129 on: September 15, 2006, 06:43:54 PM »

Quote from: jblank
I still don't think you guys understand. I am not on some anti-Nintendo bandwagon, hell, I have said repeatedly I am gonna buy the thing. All I am doing is trying to tell you guys that you should not expect this to be the greatest system ever, and tell you why I think this. That really is all I am saying, but some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it, which is far from the truth.

well some of you're comments generally make it look like you are trying to point to the negative, which would normally make people think you are anti-whatever they are pro-for, no matter what the topic.

to flip it around again; All we are trying to tell you is that we expect this to be a great system and to tell you why we think so, but some people act like Nintendo is this stupid company that only makes mistakes and can't make a great system that appeals to a lot of people; so they criticize instead of looking on the positive side of things.

I said it in my other post and I'll say it again, try not to get wrapped up in some of this stuff. It's not about being right or wrong. ECHK.. I am having a hard time writing what I am thinking...

Ahhh, Warning put it all into perspective, thanks Warning! icon_biggrin
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« Reply #130 on: September 15, 2006, 07:06:48 PM »

I think in the short-term, Wii will be a success, but its long-range success is up in the air.  Nintendo's strategy seems like a good one, and although it's working for the DS, there's a big difference between a $130 handheld with $20-$35 games and a $250 console with $50 games.  I think it's great that they're trying something new, but I would guess that the controller would put off as many casual gamers as it would attract.  I think that once the PS3 gets rolling with units being widely available, lots of big-name games, and a price-cut, along with a price-cut for the 360, Wii is going to have a really tough time staying successful.
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« Reply #131 on: September 15, 2006, 07:17:38 PM »

Quote from: ATB on September 15, 2006, 04:40:05 PM

I'm gonna go back on record here and say that the Wii outsells the PS3 and the 360 this gen.

Overall maybe.  In North America I simply cannot see that happening.
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« Reply #132 on: September 15, 2006, 07:18:25 PM »

Quote from: EddieA on September 15, 2006, 07:06:48 PM

I think in the short-term, Wii will be a success, but its long-range success is up in the air.  Nintendo's strategy seems like a good one, and although it's working for the DS, there's a big difference between a $130 handheld with $20-$35 games and a $250 console with $50 games.  I think it's great that they're trying something new, but I would guess that the controller would put off as many casual gamers as it would attract.  I think that once the PS3 gets rolling with units being widely available, lots of big-name games, and a price-cut, along with a price-cut for the 360, Wii is going to have a really tough time staying successful.

Agreed.  Despite Sony's shockingly inept handling of the PS3 so far, 3 years from now I still think there will be more PS3s in homes than Wiis.  Time will tell I guess.
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« Reply #133 on: September 15, 2006, 07:40:13 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on September 15, 2006, 07:17:38 PM

Quote from: ATB on September 15, 2006, 04:40:05 PM

I'm gonna go back on record here and say that the Wii outsells the PS3 and the 360 this gen.

Overall maybe.  In North America I simply cannot see that happening.

If it doesn't, Kobra will eat his pants.
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« Reply #134 on: September 15, 2006, 07:40:33 PM »

Keep in mind for the long term success, though, that in three years when both the Wii and the PS3 have had some price cuts (let's just say $100 for the heck of it) the Wii would be an appealing $150 while the PS3 would still be over $400.

Additionally, Nintendo can already afford a price drop, while Sony has struggled to bring the PS3 down to an "affordable" $600.


If I was Nintendo, I'd pay LucasArts whatever they wanted to get them to conveniently announce, a week or two before the Wii release, a Star Wars game in the making where you can swing around a lightsaber with your Wiimote.  Instant win.  Well, for the knockout, "leak" a video onto youtube that shows some early tests of someone Wiimotely slicing down some stormtroopers.
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« Reply #135 on: September 15, 2006, 07:45:24 PM »

Quote from: warning on September 15, 2006, 06:36:53 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 06:18:36 PM

Quote from: warning on September 15, 2006, 06:13:07 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.

Let me ask this:  If Nintendo manages to have a successful console with the Wii does that make our 360's somehow the losing team?  Is it an issue of threat?  If millions of people love the system and wave their Wiimotes around like madmen does that spell the end of gaming as a "serious" hobby with all of its AA, HDTV, 5.1 & 720p?  What if they do an amazing job of selling this thing?  Is that going to bother you or I or anyone else not employed by Microsoft or Sony?

So people are excited about this?  Big deal.  Why shouldn't they/we/I be excited about it.  It's a new console with a different vibe about it.  Does it mean I'm going to sell my 360 and become an Italian plumber?

Really this is not a Nintendo-biased conversation here.  If you want to see what those are really like head over to GAF or the IGN boards and prepare to lose faith in humanity.  But you also won't find droves of people ready to jump on the OMG Nintendo sux bandwagon that's out there.  We tend to be a pretty balanced, reasonable and well-informed bunch of dudes.

The whole "I give up and I'm going to take my ball and go home" mentality is fine and all but it's really not necessary.  Disagreements and differences of opinions are almost mandatory here (ask me about Resident Evil 4 sometime!   icon_twisted ) but we tend to not get our blood pressure raised like some forums do.

I still don't think you guys understand. I am not on some anti-Nintendo bandwagon, hell, I have said repeatedly I am gonna buy the thing. All I am doing is trying to tell you guys that you should not expect this to be the greatest system ever, and tell you why I think this. That really is all I am saying, but some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it, which is far from the truth.

Like I said, its just not worth the chance that someone wrong gets said, or something unintentionally gets taken the wrong way, so for me at least, I would rather throw my hands up and walk away at this point.

If anyone's saying the Wii is going to be the greatest system ever I haven't heard it (unless it was ATB but he's smoking the Mario Mushrooms).  People feel a passion about the things they like.  That's not so bad is it?  I'm sure you have lots of things you feel passionate about and would be happy to debate with someone who was pointing out its negatives.  Really you'll find most people here have very thick skin (as I'm sure you do as well) so it's no big deal.  I do think you saying "some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it" is not a fair characterization of this discussion.  We're just trading facts and opinions here and the people who really like Nintendo's stuff get vocal but I really don't think they get more vocal than the people who really like Microsoft's stuff or Sony's stuff.  It's just that the attention is focused on Nintendo right now with their recent announcements.

Again, for the last time, I'm not slamming Nintendo, hell, I like their stuff also, but considering the forum is in drool mode, I thought I would try and throw what I feel is some critical thought out, to counter the rabid hype and excitement. I want a Wii also, but some of the posters are acting like this thing is gonna cure Cancer or something, and while I think its gonna be a good system, not great, it has some real hurdles to climb to be as successful as some think it will be. Thats all I am saying fellas, not bashing Nintendo or their new console.
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« Reply #136 on: September 15, 2006, 07:48:08 PM »

Quote from: Tebunker on September 15, 2006, 06:43:54 PM

Quote from: jblank
I still don't think you guys understand. I am not on some anti-Nintendo bandwagon, hell, I have said repeatedly I am gonna buy the thing. All I am doing is trying to tell you guys that you should not expect this to be the greatest system ever, and tell you why I think this. That really is all I am saying, but some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it, which is far from the truth.

well some of you're comments generally make it look like you are trying to point to the negative, which would normally make people think you are anti-whatever they are pro-for, no matter what the topic.

to flip it around again; All we are trying to tell you is that we expect this to be a great system and to tell you why we think so, but some people act like Nintendo is this stupid company that only makes mistakes and can't make a great system that appeals to a lot of people; so they criticize instead of looking on the positive side of things.

I said it in my other post and I'll say it again, try not to get wrapped up in some of this stuff. It's not about being right or wrong. ECHK.. I am having a hard time writing what I am thinking...

Ahhh, Warning put it all into perspective, thanks Warning! icon_biggrin

If simply mentioning problems a console has, means I don't like it or its maker, then it means I must hate them all because I have voiced complaints about just about everything out there on the market today.

As to the Wii, there ARE negatives, it has its own issues, and it has some problems its gonna face. The difference here is that I at least will talk about them, others wanna play Ostrich and ignore the potential problems. Doesn't mean I hate the system, doesn't mean I hate Nintendo (I don't to either for the record), it just means I am not going to slobber all over this thing and pronounce it king of the consoles, and that I recognize that it has some flaws.
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« Reply #137 on: September 15, 2006, 08:27:19 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on September 15, 2006, 04:08:43 AM

99.99% of my friends and co-workers would not know a gamesforum if one bit them on the ass.  Most of them have heard of the Xbox 360 and Playstaion 3.  Most of them have no idea what the Nintendo Wii is.
But I assume they know what Nintendo is, don't they?  It's not like they're counting the days til the PS3 is released, and if they are, they're hardcore.  The PS3 will be relevant when it's on the shelf in front of them, likewise with the Wii.

Quote
My argument against the Wii is that Nintendo says they are going after the non-gamer (joe public), but to me it seems like they are going after joegamesforumregular.  (retro games, quirky game types, art design and "gameplay over graphics", lack of DVD playback)
What?

Retro games -- ok, that's more of a hardcore thing, but it's also for adults who grew up with the games, fell out of gaming, and now have a window to get back in.

'Quirky type games' -- like what?  Brain Age?  Nintendogs?  Animal Crossing?  Those "quriky" games blow yet-another-shooter shit like Gears of War out of the water in terms of reaching the non-hardcore audience.

'Art Design' -- what?  Mario is the oldest surviving video game character and still going strong.  What are you even talking about?

Gameplay over graphics -- hint:  Joe Schmoe doesn't give two shits what something looks like if it's boring.  Maybe Joe Schmoe as a late 20 something with a 58' HDTV and a bad case of overcompensation does, but by that point, he's a hardcore gamer.

Quote
Which handheld do you thing is more popular with non-hardcore gamers, the DS or the PSP?  Give a person who has never played a video game a quick 5 minute demo of each of them and see which they would prefer.  I would argue that the Wii vs 360 comparison would go the same way.
Nintendo DS, no contest.  There's hard evidence to that tune also.  The only surprising thing is that the DS is amazingly popular amongst the hardcore too.

Quote
If you think Nintendo is more popular with non hardcore gamers than Sony and Microsoft I strongly disagree with that for alot of the same reasons that Madden and the Sims sell alot more copies than Katamari Damasi and Dominions 2.

If you think they're not, I'd suggest you look at, well, any statistics ever.
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« Reply #138 on: September 15, 2006, 08:46:29 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 07:45:24 PM

Quote from: warning on September 15, 2006, 06:36:53 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 06:18:36 PM

Quote from: warning on September 15, 2006, 06:13:07 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 05:15:38 PM

Whatever fellas, you guys win.

It's just impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore, so I am just gonna bow out.

Let me ask this:  If Nintendo manages to have a successful console with the Wii does that make our 360's somehow the losing team?  Is it an issue of threat?  If millions of people love the system and wave their Wiimotes around like madmen does that spell the end of gaming as a "serious" hobby with all of its AA, HDTV, 5.1 & 720p?  What if they do an amazing job of selling this thing?  Is that going to bother you or I or anyone else not employed by Microsoft or Sony?

So people are excited about this?  Big deal.  Why shouldn't they/we/I be excited about it.  It's a new console with a different vibe about it.  Does it mean I'm going to sell my 360 and become an Italian plumber?

Really this is not a Nintendo-biased conversation here.  If you want to see what those are really like head over to GAF or the IGN boards and prepare to lose faith in humanity.  But you also won't find droves of people ready to jump on the OMG Nintendo sux bandwagon that's out there.  We tend to be a pretty balanced, reasonable and well-informed bunch of dudes.

The whole "I give up and I'm going to take my ball and go home" mentality is fine and all but it's really not necessary.  Disagreements and differences of opinions are almost mandatory here (ask me about Resident Evil 4 sometime!   icon_twisted ) but we tend to not get our blood pressure raised like some forums do.

I still don't think you guys understand. I am not on some anti-Nintendo bandwagon, hell, I have said repeatedly I am gonna buy the thing. All I am doing is trying to tell you guys that you should not expect this to be the greatest system ever, and tell you why I think this. That really is all I am saying, but some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it, which is far from the truth.

Like I said, its just not worth the chance that someone wrong gets said, or something unintentionally gets taken the wrong way, so for me at least, I would rather throw my hands up and walk away at this point.

If anyone's saying the Wii is going to be the greatest system ever I haven't heard it (unless it was ATB but he's smoking the Mario Mushrooms).  People feel a passion about the things they like.  That's not so bad is it?  I'm sure you have lots of things you feel passionate about and would be happy to debate with someone who was pointing out its negatives.  Really you'll find most people here have very thick skin (as I'm sure you do as well) so it's no big deal.  I do think you saying "some people act like Nintendo is their dog, and I am kicking it" is not a fair characterization of this discussion.  We're just trading facts and opinions here and the people who really like Nintendo's stuff get vocal but I really don't think they get more vocal than the people who really like Microsoft's stuff or Sony's stuff.  It's just that the attention is focused on Nintendo right now with their recent announcements.

Again, for the last time, I'm not slamming Nintendo, hell, I like their stuff also, but considering the forum is in drool mode, I thought I would try and throw what I feel is some critical thought out, to counter the rabid hype and excitement. I want a Wii also, but some of the posters are acting like this thing is gonna cure Cancer or something, and while I think its gonna be a good system, not great, it has some real hurdles to climb to be as successful as some think it will be. Thats all I am saying fellas, not bashing Nintendo or their new console.

Again I think you are oversimplifying the response here.  You decided you would bring "reason and critical thinking" here by pointing out "potential potholes" in the upcoming system.  When people here have responded in a fairly level-headed and reasonable way to your points you have come back with "it's impossible to talk about a topic like this anymore" and "some people act like Nintendo is their dog" and allegations of "rabid hype" and "some posters are acting like this thing is going to cure Cancer".  If you make a point and someone rebuts it or points out an alternative way to think about it it doesn't mean that they are automatically raging lunatics.  The only way your responses make sense to me is if you were expecting to find frothing-at-the-mouth fanboys here.

Really this is a pretty nice place for open debate and I think you'll find people are pretty tolerant of diverging opinions here.  I love my DS, PSP, Gamecube, PS2, 360 & my PC and I think you'll find most of us are polytheistic with our consoles.  But I don't think it helps your points or the discussion at large when you respond to differences of opinion with mischaracterizations and generalizations.
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« Reply #139 on: September 15, 2006, 08:53:24 PM »

Oy vey! I give up.

I still don't think you're understanding what I have said (I still detect a bit of the belief that I am somehow slamming Nintendo), but I digress. If you think I am portraying the forum as full of fanboys, then I must not have been clear. While I don't think we have fanboy city here, I do think that for a lot of the group, Nintendo is like the family pet, and as such, they seem to not see any (or many) faults with them. Thats fine to feel that way, but when someone does offer some diverging opinions of the "big N", it isn't necessarily coming from an overtly critical opinion of the company, simply the observation that not everything is 100% rosy with them. Thats all I was trying to get across here, I wasn't trying to single out a subset of the forum, nor was I ever trying to slam the products they make.
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« Reply #140 on: September 15, 2006, 09:45:41 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 08:53:24 PM

Oy vey! I give up.

I still don't think you're understanding what I have said (I still detect a bit of the belief that I am somehow slamming Nintendo), but I digress. If you think I am portraying the forum as full of fanboys, then I must not have been clear. While I don't think we have fanboy city here, I do think that for a lot of the group, Nintendo is like the family pet, and as such, they seem to not see any (or many) faults with them. Thats fine to feel that way, but when someone does offer some diverging opinions of the "big N", it isn't necessarily coming from an overtly critical opinion of the company, simply the observation that not everything is 100% rosy with them. Thats all I was trying to get across here, I wasn't trying to single out a subset of the forum, nor was I ever trying to slam the products they make.
Eh?  Nintendo's got plenty of faults.  Nothing's perfect.

That being said, they outlasted Atari, 3DO, and Sega, and they're not hemhorraging money like Sony or Microsoft just to have their product on store shelves.  They deserve at least a little respect, and any gamer worth his salt is going to realize that.
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« Reply #141 on: September 15, 2006, 10:08:47 PM »

Quote from: -Lord Ebonstone- on September 15, 2006, 09:45:41 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 08:53:24 PM

Oy vey! I give up.

I still don't think you're understanding what I have said (I still detect a bit of the belief that I am somehow slamming Nintendo), but I digress. If you think I am portraying the forum as full of fanboys, then I must not have been clear. While I don't think we have fanboy city here, I do think that for a lot of the group, Nintendo is like the family pet, and as such, they seem to not see any (or many) faults with them. Thats fine to feel that way, but when someone does offer some diverging opinions of the "big N", it isn't necessarily coming from an overtly critical opinion of the company, simply the observation that not everything is 100% rosy with them. Thats all I was trying to get across here, I wasn't trying to single out a subset of the forum, nor was I ever trying to slam the products they make.
Eh?  Nintendo's got plenty of faults.  Nothing's perfect.

That being said, they outlasted Atari, 3DO, and Sega, and they're not hemhorraging money like Sony or Microsoft just to have their product on store shelves.  They deserve at least a little respect, and any gamer worth his salt is going to realize that.

I have deep respect for Nintedo.  But without the handheld market they would be dead in the water.  I applaud them for trying to bring a new angle to the home console market as well.  The path they took with the Wii was realistically the only way they could go.  I think the Wii will be massively popular in Japan.  I am am skeptical about North America though.  I hope I am wrong.  Sony and Microsoft need a company like Nintendo to keep them honest.

Alot of people my age identify Nintedo's characters with the golden age of gaming because that is what they started out with.  Somwhere along the way alot of people started identifying with Halo, GTA, Metal Gear Solid and Madden in THEIR golden age of gaming.  Those are the people Nintendo has to reach with the Wii, I have serious doubts that they will.  But time will tell.
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« Reply #142 on: September 15, 2006, 11:01:39 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on September 15, 2006, 10:08:47 PM

I have deep respect for Nintedo.  But without the handheld market they would be dead in the water.  I applaud them for trying to bring a new angle to the home console market as well.  The path they took with the Wii was realistically the only way they could go.  I think the Wii will be massively popular in Japan.  I am am skeptical about North America though.  I hope I am wrong.  Sony and Microsoft need a company like Nintendo to keep them honest.

Alot of people my age identify Nintedo's characters with the golden age of gaming because that is what they started out with.  Somwhere along the way alot of people started identifying with Halo, GTA, Metal Gear Solid and Madden in THEIR golden age of gaming.  Those are the people Nintendo has to reach with the Wii, I have serious doubts that they will.  But time will tell.

Now that was a great post and I think it's spot on. Nintendo would definitely be in deep trouble (if not gone) if it weren't for the handheld.  Luckily it's there.

Your last paragraph rings very true as well and my position is that they will do just that.
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« Reply #143 on: September 16, 2006, 04:16:41 AM »

Quote from: -Lord Ebonstone- on September 15, 2006, 09:45:41 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 15, 2006, 08:53:24 PM

Oy vey! I give up.

I still don't think you're understanding what I have said (I still detect a bit of the belief that I am somehow slamming Nintendo), but I digress. If you think I am portraying the forum as full of fanboys, then I must not have been clear. While I don't think we have fanboy city here, I do think that for a lot of the group, Nintendo is like the family pet, and as such, they seem to not see any (or many) faults with them. Thats fine to feel that way, but when someone does offer some diverging opinions of the "big N", it isn't necessarily coming from an overtly critical opinion of the company, simply the observation that not everything is 100% rosy with them. Thats all I was trying to get across here, I wasn't trying to single out a subset of the forum, nor was I ever trying to slam the products they make.
Eh?  Nintendo's got plenty of faults.  Nothing's perfect.

That being said, they outlasted Atari, 3DO, and Sega, and they're not hemhorraging money like Sony or Microsoft just to have their product on store shelves.  They deserve at least a little respect, and any gamer worth his salt is going to realize that.

I never disrespected them.
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« Reply #144 on: September 16, 2006, 05:28:18 AM »

Quote from: jblank on September 16, 2006, 04:16:41 AM

I never disrespected them.
Didn't say you did.  I'm just suggesting a source for all the slack gamers tend to cut for Nintendo.
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« Reply #145 on: September 17, 2006, 02:34:17 AM »

Wow, anybody getting a sense of Deja vu' here?  I remember everybody going on about how the DS was too gimmicky and the PSP was so much more powerful, could do more, could play movies, etc.

Let me just say considering I was one of those people it came as a shock to me to realize at one point a few months ago that I now considered the DS to be one of the best platforms I have ever played on.  ever.

I'm gonna catch the next Nintendo train a lot sooner this time around, I can assure you.
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« Reply #146 on: September 17, 2006, 03:49:38 AM »

I've kinda started waffling on the Wii being a quick purchase, but it doesn't have to do with anything related to Wii-  I think it's time I upgraded to HDTV  dude
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« Reply #147 on: September 17, 2006, 09:00:15 AM »

Inflation guys.  $250 is for a console is a good price these days...
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« Reply #148 on: September 17, 2006, 02:51:40 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on September 17, 2006, 02:34:17 AM

Wow, anybody getting a sense of Deja vu' here? 

Absolutely.
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« Reply #149 on: September 17, 2006, 03:27:53 PM »

Quote from: Misguided on September 17, 2006, 02:51:40 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on September 17, 2006, 02:34:17 AM

Wow, anybody getting a sense of Deja vu' here?

Absolutely.

It seems to me that overestimating Nintendo in the home console market is almost as popular as underestimating them in the handheld market.  I site the prerelease talk concerning gamecube and DS as evidence of both.
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« Reply #150 on: September 17, 2006, 03:52:57 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on September 17, 2006, 03:27:53 PM

Quote from: Misguided on September 17, 2006, 02:51:40 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on September 17, 2006, 02:34:17 AM

Wow, anybody getting a sense of Deja vu' here?

Absolutely.

It seems to me that overestimating Nintendo in the home console market is almost as popular as underestimating them in the handheld market.  I site the prerelease talk concerning gamecube and DS as evidence of both.

It's not like I think Wii is going to become the #1 console overnight or something like that. I do think there's a good chance of Nintendo increasing their home console market share this generation because (as I have stated previously) the Wii has something unique to offer. As Bill harris said "...there was nothing to distinguish the Gamecube as a console, and no reason for developers to support it." That isn't the case with the Wii. I think when you add up a decent (if not rock-bottom as some people hoped) price, the uniqueness of the controllers, and the power of the classic Ninty franchises, it sounds like a recipe for success.

I'm also interested to see how they leverage the success of the DS. It sounds like they have plans, but we haven't heard much. Will being able to use the DS as a controller for the Wii appeal to people? What about the possibility of a plug-in motion sensor for the GBA slot? Will people want to grab a Wii (oy vey) so they can download demos of DS games from the net? Lots of potential, and lots of unanswered questions. Intriguing.
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« Reply #151 on: September 17, 2006, 06:12:42 PM »

Wow, anybody getting a sense of Deja vu' here?
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« Reply #152 on: September 17, 2006, 06:18:09 PM »

Wow, anybody getting a sense of Deja vu' here?
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« Reply #153 on: September 17, 2006, 06:45:26 PM »

Wow, anybody getting a sense of Deja vu' here?
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« Reply #154 on: September 18, 2006, 12:44:53 AM »

Okay who farted?  icon_evil
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« Reply #155 on: September 18, 2006, 01:35:34 AM »

Sparhawk
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« Reply #156 on: September 18, 2006, 03:30:33 AM »

"Will being able to use the DS as a controller for the Wii appeal to people?"
I can see it now - wii remote in one hand, attached to the DS in the other.  You can wave the remote at the screen while simultaneously pushing buttons on both it and the DS, tilting the DS for motion sensitivity, while watching both DS screens and the TV, and holding the stylus in your mouth.  Imagine the possibilities for Wario Ware  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #157 on: September 18, 2006, 05:52:36 PM »

Quote from: EddieA on September 18, 2006, 03:30:33 AM

"Will being able to use the DS as a controller for the Wii appeal to people?"
I can see it now - wii remote in one hand, attached to the DS in the other.  You can wave the remote at the screen while simultaneously pushing buttons on both it and the DS, tilting the DS for motion sensitivity, while watching both DS screens and the TV, and holding the stylus in your mouth.  Imagine the possibilities for Wario Ware  icon_biggrin
You forgot the part where you are standing on one leg while doing all thist.   icon_wink
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