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kathode
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« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2006, 02:39:55 PM »

Quote from: siege on September 14, 2006, 02:08:48 PM

Wii remote is $39.99 and the nunchuck attachment is $19.99.

This sucks. 

Hearing some development rumors that they were having more trouble than anticipated manufacturing the remote.  Thus the later than expected launch date.  Who knows though. 

$250 is a little disappointing.  Because I don't give a shit about Wii Sports, it makes Zelda pretty much a requirement (not that it wasn't anyway), so that's a $300 purchase.  I will probably do it, but I sure as hell don't have to like it!  icon_twisted
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« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2006, 02:45:30 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 14, 2006, 02:28:11 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 14, 2006, 02:15:50 PM

Any of our resident Gamestop/EB employees know whether this news means they will start taking preorders now? 
I may be stopping by the local EBGames to find out after work.  $250 is doable for me- as I said before I don't own a Gamecube and have been putting off buying one since the Wii is so close.
I just called Gamestop and was told they're not taking pre-orders yet but probably later today or tomorrow morning.

$250 is higher than I wanted but not a deal-breaker. Is it possible they went higher because Sony went so god-awful insanely high?

I'm not too interested in Wii Sports, but I'm thrilled that they're going to include a game in the box just like ye olden tymes. It's no killer app but it's a step in the right direction.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 02:47:27 PM by rrmorton » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2006, 02:52:33 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 14, 2006, 02:28:11 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 14, 2006, 02:15:50 PM

Any of our resident Gamestop/EB employees know whether this news means they will start taking preorders now? 
I may be stopping by the local EBGames to find out after work.  $250 is doable for me- as I said before I don't own a Gamecube and have been putting off buying one since the Wii is so close.

I'm definitely hitting mine after work today. I just hope preorders won't be full by then.

But $250 is fine by me. A tad expensive, IMHO (should've been $200 like all their other consoles), but acceptable for what the technology offers.
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« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2006, 03:09:28 PM »

Quote from: rrmorton on September 14, 2006, 02:45:30 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on September 14, 2006, 02:28:11 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 14, 2006, 02:15:50 PM

Any of our resident Gamestop/EB employees know whether this news means they will start taking preorders now? 
I may be stopping by the local EBGames to find out after work.  $250 is doable for me- as I said before I don't own a Gamecube and have been putting off buying one since the Wii is so close.
I just called Gamestop and was told they're not taking pre-orders yet but probably later today or tomorrow morning.

$250 is higher than I wanted but not a deal-breaker. Is it possible they went higher because Sony went so god-awful insanely high?

I'm not too interested in Wii Sports, but I'm thrilled that they're going to include a game in the box just like ye olden tymes. It's no killer app but it's a step in the right direction.

I predict that by the end of the Wii's lifecycle, Amelia is officially a hardcore gamer.  icon_cool
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« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2006, 03:14:33 PM »

I'm surprised. $250 is higher than I expected. I'm not as pumped as I was before. I do think the pricing for the VC is good - five bucks for an NES game, eight for an SNES, and 10 for an N64 game seems reasonable to me. But the controllers? Forty for the stick, twenty for the nunchuck? That's sixty bucks for a complete controller! Brutal! No Metroid for launch? I don't care about Wii Sports! Only in white? Gar, not impressed.

I'm still hoping, without much faith in the idea, that somehow the prices are higher due to the Japanese/American conversion. I don't believe that any of this is official from Nintendo, yet ... but the Times dropped the bomb, right?


Backing away from the console right now. What's that 360 thingie everyone's been talking about ...
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« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2006, 03:21:02 PM »

Quote
I'm still hoping, without much faith in the idea, that somehow the prices are higher due to the Japanese/American conversion. I don't believe that any of this is official from Nintendo, yet ... but the Times dropped the bomb, right?

Two different sources.  At the Japanese conference last night, the Wii was announced for the equivalent of $212.00 without Wii Sports as a pack-in for Japan.  The Times wasn't reporting on the Japanese conference but presumably had an article (likely straight from Nintendo) ready to go for today.  I seem to recall the same thing happened with USA Today and the "Revolution" before Nintendo's E3 press conference. 
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« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2006, 03:26:40 PM »

There is an article in today's USA Today confirming $249.00.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2006, 03:29:46 PM »

I wonder how much of the "man, I thought it would be much lower" comments come from how much stock we put in rumors?  Nintendo has only said less than $250 (which they technicaly meant) but all of the other "sources" really seem to have set people's expectations really low on the price. 
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« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2006, 03:30:56 PM »

Quote from: rrmorton on September 14, 2006, 02:45:30 PM

$250 is higher than I wanted but not a deal-breaker. Is it possible they went higher because Sony went so god-awful insanely high?

I suspect that's exactly the reason.  They're pricing it at $250 because they can sell it at that price.  Why not make some extra dough while still taking some mindshare away from Sony?
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« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2006, 03:45:44 PM »

Quote from: Dafones on September 14, 2006, 03:14:33 PM

I'm Forty for the stick, twenty for the nunchuck?

Yep. That's the real kick in the teeth if you ask me.  That's way too much scratch for a controller. No doubt.

But if Zelda is out on launch looks like I'm going to be dropping nearly 400.00 on launch day.

  • Console = $250.00

  • Extra Controller(?) = 60.00

  • Zelda= 50.00

  • Wii Points = 50.00 (with free retro controller?)

  • Game X = 50.00


That's $460.00 + tax = $490.00ish.  Whoa. I'm really gonna have to think this through.

Good thing I have some reward zone certs, but man. That's some load of change.

BTW- Zelda games don't have one continuous story right? They're all new ones as will this one be, eh?
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« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2006, 03:49:37 PM »

Quote from: ATB on September 14, 2006, 03:45:44 PM

BTW- Zelda games don't have one continuous story right? They're all new ones as will this one be, eh?

Eh, it's kind of complicated but sort of.  There are connections between the games but in general each game has a new Link (except for Majora's Mask which featured the same Link as Ocarina of Time).  You should have zero problems with Twilight Princess if you are a Zelda newb but might miss out on a few subtleties and winks to longtime fans. 
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« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2006, 04:10:52 PM »

Looks like the Wii may be region free like the DS so some may want to considering importing at the Japanese price of $212.00, if you can find one available.

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« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2006, 04:11:04 PM »

Quote from: Captain Caveman
I predict that by the end of the Wii's lifecycle, Amelia is officially a hardcore gamer.  icon_cool

No doubt! She's getting more interested every day. We were just playing Lego Star Wars II together.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 04:41:06 PM by rrmorton » Logged
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« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2006, 04:33:32 PM »

Is it 100% confirmed that Wii is wireless?

Oh and has it been confirmed that the retro conroller is free with 5000 wii point purchase. I dont' remember where I read it.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 04:35:10 PM by ATB » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2006, 04:37:37 PM »

If the Wii is 100% wireless out of the box, all things considered, $250 isn't that bad.

Consider:
For $250, you get the following:

1 Wii Console, wireless out of the box.
1 Wiimote with nunchuck, selling for $60 seperate.
1 Wiimote sensor, without which your Wii doesn't work.
1 Wii Sports, which is, what, about $30?

The only thing I haven't seen yet is what sort of flash memory will be included, or how much it will cost.  All things considered, $250 isn't bad at all.
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« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2006, 04:39:46 PM »

Quote from: ATB on September 14, 2006, 04:33:32 PM

Is it 100% confirmed that Wii is wireless?

Oh and has it been confirmed that the retro conroller is free with 5000 wii point purchase. I dont' remember where I read it.

Wireless internet?  Yes, it was confirmed that Wii had WiFi during their conference this morning. 
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« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2006, 04:43:54 PM »

I just saw vid of the photo and Mii channels. Looks like fun smile
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« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2006, 05:09:36 PM »

Bill's post at Dubious Quality is great:

Quote
Would any of us have thought six months ago that Nintendo would launch the Wii in the U.S. two days AFTER the PS3 launch? That would have been suicide, a massive tactical gaffe.

Now, though, it's a non-issue. The PS3 launch is a non-issue. Just wait--all the PS3 launch coverage will be about how expensive they are. So half the story will be trying to explain why it's so expensive (talking about Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD, and the format wars, and Sony's strategy), and the other half will be about how almost no one can get one, anyway.

Here's the important thing, though: do you know what will barely even get mentioned in those stories?

Fun.

What will the Wii launch coverage be like? It will be non-stop videos of children using the controller and laughing their asses off. Instantly, that becomes the must-have toy for Christmas.

It's a public-relations coup for Nintendo and an absolute nightmare for Sony.

Sometimes he just frames things perfectly.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 05:11:25 PM by warning » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2006, 05:31:20 PM »

Wow. He hit it right on the head.  Zounds!

Watching the press conference, I'm a bit more optimistic about definitely getting one. Wii's Mii feature should be a hoot and I loved teh photo viewer.
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« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2006, 05:37:48 PM »

Is it really true that NONE of the launch titles support online multiplayer ????

Are you kidding me?
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« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2006, 05:46:31 PM »

Also from bill:

Quote
The Wii is the console that people will be talking about ten years from now, not the 360 (although I'll remember it fondly) or the PS3. The Wii isn't even competing with the 360 or the PS3. If anything, it's competing with the PSP.

Same price (for now). Which one would you rather have?

He really thinks a lot about this stuff, doesn't he.
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« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2006, 05:54:03 PM »

Unfortunately, yes.
Third party developers weren't expecting to get any of the nintendo wifi connection code until next year, so launch titles (at least third party ones, who knows about the first party ones though..?) won't be online.

There's a topic on it probably at the end of this page, or maybe the next page with a link on it.
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« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2006, 06:24:45 PM »

Quote from: ATB on September 14, 2006, 05:46:31 PM

Also from bill:

Quote
The Wii is the console that people will be talking about ten years from now, not the 360 (although I'll remember it fondly) or the PS3. The Wii isn't even competing with the 360 or the PS3. If anything, it's competing with the PSP.

Same price (for now). Which one would you rather have?
He really thinks a lot about this stuff, doesn't he.

That he does. That's why I love reading his blog every day.
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« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2006, 06:39:16 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on September 14, 2006, 04:37:37 PM

If the Wii is 100% wireless out of the box, all things considered, $250 isn't that bad.

Consider:
For $250, you get the following:

1 Wii Console, wireless out of the box.
1 Wiimote with nunchuck, selling for $60 seperate.
1 Wiimote sensor, without which your Wii doesn't work.
1 Wii Sports, which is, what, about $30?

The only thing I haven't seen yet is what sort of flash memory will be included, or how much it will cost.  All things considered, $250 isn't bad at all.

Well you really can't uncouple the first controller from the console.  All consoles have shipped with at least one controller and they'd obviously be worthless without them.  The only thing I see you could take out is the Wii Sports bringing it down to $220.  Although the included wireless adapter (built in I imagine?) is very nice and is the one thing I think the 360 should've included.  But the lack of HD is very disappointing and is a big ding against it.

$250 isn't bad, but it's still higher than what I'm willing to bite on right now.  Considering that I'd want to get 1 game, an extra controller and a couple downloads it'd be around $400 after taxes.  I'm still very interested in the console to see if it really does pull off what they're aiming for.  But I'm going to hold off for a while to let the honeymoon phase pass and wait for the real impressions to roll in.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 06:42:17 PM by Jancelot » Logged
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« Reply #64 on: September 14, 2006, 06:42:36 PM »

$250 is $200 too high for a Wii

EDIT: As for that controller people are going gah gah over. I hate it. Im a lazy gamer. I want to sit still and not be forced to move my puny muscles any. After an hour of tossing that controller around all over im sure Id be very tired and sore and not able to play any longer  Seriously though I dont like the idea.

Id rather play my games than play my controller.
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« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2006, 06:51:35 PM »

In Japan they are bundling the Wii mote with a mini-game collection for like 4800 yen, which is about 40 bucks or so. Hopefully NOA will follow suit over here.
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« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2006, 06:52:17 PM »

I just contacted my local EBGames.  The guy who answered said they were not taking pre-orders until they knew how many each store was getting.  Same deal with the PS3.
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« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2006, 07:00:17 PM »

Perrin Kaplan has confirmed that at least for first party games, the Wii is region free. Holy crap! That's great news, it means you can import without pause and if you really want you could try and order one from Japan, eventhough I think shipping cancels out the savings.


Just thought about it, you could import the Japanese title "My first Wii" <- great name BTW, and get the packed in remote for roughly the same cost as the remote itself. Not a bad deal really. That is, if they don't do that here in the states.
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« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2006, 07:05:58 PM »

Quote from: ATB on September 14, 2006, 05:46:31 PM

Also from bill:

Quote
The Wii is the console that people will be talking about ten years from now, not the 360 (although I'll remember it fondly) or the PS3. The Wii isn't even competing with the 360 or the PS3. If anything, it's competing with the PSP.

Same price (for now). Which one would you rather have?

He really thinks a lot about this stuff, doesn't he.

Whats he basing that on? Not bashing the Wii, hell, eventually I will own one, but considering its barely better than the system its replacing and is gonna turn off a lot of people because of that, its funky controller, lack of HD ability, and inevitable lack of games, why does he think 10 years from now this will be the machine people talk about? I just don't see it, especially against the 360. I think if anything, the PS2 has the best opportunity to still be talked about 10 years from now.
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« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2006, 07:07:48 PM »

Quote from: jblank
but considering its barely better than the system its replacing

Actually if you read a lot of developer diaries and interviews it's supposedly a lot stronger than the Cube. You should read the Madden Wii interview over on IGN. Sure, it's no 360, but it is definately a lot more than "barely better"
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« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2006, 07:10:23 PM »

Quote from: Tebunker on September 14, 2006, 07:07:48 PM

Quote from: jblank
but considering its barely better than the system its replacing

Actually if you read a lot of developer diaries and interviews it's supposedly a lot stronger than the Cube. You should read the Madden Wii interview over on IGN. Sure, it's no 360, but it is definately a lot more than "barely better"

From what I understand its a RAM thing, it has more of it, and the GPU is a couple of generations newer and improved, but it can't even output HD, so it can't be THAT much better.

Again, not slamming the Wii, I will own one after the price drops, but at a minimum this thing should be able to output an HD signal, thats a big deal for someone like me with 2 HDTV's.
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« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2006, 07:16:25 PM »

It's kinda funny that when the subject turns around to Bluray and HD-DVD it's repeatedly "DVD looks jus fine to me!"," the difference isn't much", "not worth the extra money!", etc but when it's gaming it seems to be "gah!  No HD makes me want to claw my eyes out".  Yes, I know it's not necessarilly the same people (and jblank I know you're not included in the former) but the message here doesn't seem to be very clear to me. 
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« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2006, 07:24:32 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 14, 2006, 07:16:25 PM

It's kinda funny that when the subject turns around to Bluray and HD-DVD it's repeatedly "DVD looks jus fine to me!"," the difference isn't much", "not worth the extra money!", etc but when it's gaming it seems to be "gah!  No HD makes me want to claw my eyes out".  Yes, I know it's not necessarilly the same people (and jblank I know you're not included in the former) but the message here doesn't seem to be very clear to me. 

Thats a fair point I think.

For me, after gaming in HD for 6 months now on the 360, I cannot imagine having to play games in 480p (though I will have to when I buy a Wii). You lose so much clarity and detail, man, its literally like stepping back a generation. I think Nintendo made a boo-boo in not giving this thing HD support, especially considering all the HDTV's that will be sold during the lifespan of this console and the fact their competitors are not only supporting HD, but embracing it in a huge way, touting it, and tayloring their games and systems for it.

I hate to say it, but Wii games are gonna look really crappy in kiosks right next to the PS3 and 360, and that might hurt them.
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« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2006, 07:28:17 PM »

Actually the GPU could output HD but the system is not geared for it nor is built to make it possible. I understand that HD is really important to most, but for me personally 480p and 16x9 is enough and it seems the majority of devs are supporting that.

What I hope for and expect is the WoW effect on the Wii. I think we'll get highly artistic and very pretty games on the Wii from developers willing to put the time into it. Versus a lot of ultra realistic HD stuff on the 360. Both have their place and both are great, but I prefer highly artistic over realistic.

Also, on a side note, recalling my video game retailing days, people respond very well to Pack-in games. I know I personally didn't get my first PS2 until GT3 came packed in and I paid $30 over a standard system. It's the value of having that game out of the box, and in the case of Wii sports you're technically getting 5 sports in one game. On a personal note I think packing in with a different title would've made a better impression, but at the retail counter it's different, people see that it comes with a game and it has a bigger impact than if it was 40 to 50 dollars cheaper without a game.

Quote from: jblank
I hate to say it, but Wii games are gonna look really crappy in kiosks right next to the PS3 and 360, and that might hurt them.

I don't know about that, the games will still look really good, just not as good, what you will see at their kiosks are people being a little more active than just standing there with a controller, which I think would cause more people to stop and try to figure out what the player is up to.
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« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2006, 07:33:15 PM »

Quote from: Tebunker on September 14, 2006, 07:28:17 PM

Actually the GPU could output HD but the system is not geared for it nor is built to make it possible. I understand that HD is really important to most, but for me personally 480p and 16x9 is enough and it seems the majority of devs are supporting that.

Actually the majority of developers are with Sony and Microsoft and supporting HD resolutions. If 480p is good enough for you, then in my opinion you haven't done much HD gaming, or you haven't done it on a good HDTV. I respect your opinion, but if the GPU can do HD, why not do it?

Quote
I don't know about that, the games will still look really good, just not as good, what you will see at their kiosks are people being a little more active than just standing there with a controller, which I think would cause more people to stop and try to figure out what the player is up to.

They won't look as clear, vibrant, or detailed, I can promise you that. The limitations of the resolution pretty much assure of that.
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« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2006, 07:37:12 PM »

Quote from: jblank on September 14, 2006, 07:24:32 PM

I hate to say it, but Wii games are gonna look really crappy in kiosks right next to the PS3 and 360, and that might hurt them.

I disagree.  HD really comes into its own on large screens where the difference is truly night and day.  On the approx 20 odd inch kiosk you typically see, the difference is far less apparent and won't be very noticeable provided that Nintendo makes the effort to ensure that good quality, properly calibrated SD displays are used. 

Re: their approach to HD- they are basically taking the opposite tact of Sony and MS.  Sony/MS are putting a lot of money into supporting hardware that is a minority now but will probably be a majority by the end of the generation.  The tradeoff is that early adopters (who are admittedly more likely to have HDTVs than the market as a whole) are paying for something they may not need now.  If PS3/360 only had to output at 480p then that frees up processing power for more polys, better lighting, physics, etc that will still be apparent on standard def.

Meanwhile, Nintendo is focusing on the market as it is *now* where most people don't have HDTVs and their lower price point also makes it more likely that potential Wii consumers haven't jumped on the HD bandwagon.  But the risk, of course, is that in four to five years people will find that the Wii hasn't aged nearly as well.  But this is Nintendo we're talking about here and, just as we've seen the GBA SP and DS Lite revisions, perhaps 2008 will bring a Wii HD that includes a scaler for converting games to higher resolutions. 
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« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2006, 07:39:58 PM »

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Actually the majority of developers are with Sony and Microsoft and supporting HD resolutions. If 480p is good enough for you, then in my opinion you haven't done much HD gaming, or you haven't done it on a good HDTV. I respect your opinion, but if the GPU can do HD, why not do it?

That one is easy- what happens to your framerate on a PC game when you go from 640x480 (TV resolution) to 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080p) withouth changing any other settings?  Framerate goes way down of course unless you have really beefy hardware.  By mandating 480p, Nintendo allows the GPU to be used for other rendering tasks instead of just more pixels.

For example, Tomb Raider Legend on Xbox 360 has a lot of framerate issues at 720p/1080i but it's pretty much a locked 30 fps when played at 480p instead. 
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« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2006, 07:44:24 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 14, 2006, 07:37:12 PM

Quote from: jblank on September 14, 2006, 07:24:32 PM

I hate to say it, but Wii games are gonna look really crappy in kiosks right next to the PS3 and 360, and that might hurt them.

I disagree.  HD really comes into its own on large screens where the difference is truly night and day.  On the approx 20 odd inch kiosk you typically see, the difference is far less apparent and won't be very noticeable provided that Nintendo makes the effort to ensure that good quality, properly calibrated SD displays are used. 

Re: their approach to HD- they are basically taking the opposite tact of Sony and MS.  Sony/MS are putting a lot of money into supporting hardware that is a minority now but will probably be a majority by the end of the generation.  The tradeoff is that early adopters (who are admittedly more likely to have HDTVs than the market as a whole) are paying for something they may not need now.  If PS3/360 only had to output at 480p then that frees up processing power for more polys, better lighting, physics, etc that will still be apparent on standard def.

Meanwhile, Nintendo is focusing on the market as it is *now* where most people don't have HDTVs and their lower price point also makes it more likely that potential Wii consumers haven't jumped on the HD bandwagon.  But the risk, of course, is that in four to five years people will find that the Wii hasn't aged nearly as well.  But this is Nintendo we're talking about here and, just as we've seen the GBA SP and DS Lite revisions, perhaps 2008 will bring a Wii HD that includes a scaler for converting games to higher resolutions. 

The difference between 480p and 720p/1080i on a 23" TV (which is what the Samsung LCD's the 360 was on mostly in retail outlets, is still considerable. If you are watching, oh, I don't know, Mork and Mindy reruns, then sure, there isn't much difference, but I have played 480p games on our Bravia LCD's (one is 23" one is 26") and I can promise you there is a considerable difference when you step up to 720p and 1080i. Don't believe me? Set your 360 to 480p, play the game of your choice, and you will see the difference, I guarantee it. Home Theater is my chief hobby, trust me, I play around with resolutions and settings constantly, and you can definitely see the difference.
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« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2006, 07:47:57 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on September 14, 2006, 07:16:25 PM

It's kinda funny that when the subject turns around to Bluray and HD-DVD it's repeatedly "DVD looks jus fine to me!"," the difference isn't much", "not worth the extra money!", etc but when it's gaming it seems to be "gah!  No HD makes me want to claw my eyes out".  Yes, I know it's not necessarilly the same people (and jblank I know you're not included in the former) but the message here doesn't seem to be very clear to me. 

What sold me on HD TV is live sporting events.  The difference is amazing.  I personally have never watched a movie in anything better than 480p so I cannot really compare DVD vs Blu Ray.  But I will say that 1080i and 720p gaming is going to be very hard to give up now that I have experienced it for almost a year.   My Xbox in 480p looks terrible to me now.  I guess it is just a personal preference but the lack of HD, and lack of online play at launch pretty much means I won't be buying a Wii for a while.
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« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2006, 07:48:59 PM »

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. Don't believe me? Set your 360 to 480p, play the game of your choice, and you will see the difference, I guarantee it. Home Theater is my chief hobby, trust me, I play around with resolutions and settings constantly, and you can definitely see the difference.

Not gonna get in a dick swinging contest because,uh, home theater is my chief hobby as well and I also have two HDTVs one of which is a "smaller" HDTV (32" Panasonic) so I've first hand experience in the differences between HD/SD on big (I have an ISF calibrated 55"  Diamond Mits )and small TVs.  Yes HD is noticeable on smaller TVs, but the difference isn't nearly as dramatic as having 360 and Wii setup next to each other on 55" displays. 
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