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Author Topic: @#$%%$# It's on STEAM!!?!?  (Read 2929 times)
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Dreamshadow
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« on: August 13, 2005, 03:45:26 PM »

Rag Doll Kung Fu is going to be on Steam?  #@$%@#$%@%#@  I was really looking forward to this game when it was announced as an indy project a year or so ago. :/  *sigh*  Now I have to go to Steam to get it.  Yeah, I know ...it's prolly free....but still.  I'm still not a fan of the distribution system because of how it has to run on the PC.  It is something that has to stay on and connected when I want to do anything with apps that were delivered by it.  Which means it's occupying my CPU, and because it's touching files, so is my virus scanner.  

BAH!



Done ranting...back to learn more from vendors at QuakeCon.
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2005, 04:17:43 PM »

Everyone that complains about Steam says the same thing about it always being on and in your computer. This is followed by the other side saying you can disable your nic and not have it connect and then you're just fine. Both sides miss the point: The simple fact that you have to disable your network card if you don't want a piece of software constantly connecting your machine to Valve's server network is not and should not be a welcome fact in the gaming world. Period.
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2005, 04:33:46 PM »

Don't install it then. Its that simple. They tell you what it does up front. If you don't like it, or dont want it, don't goddamn install it. For everyone going hysterically crazy over steam there is the other group of people that have zero issues or problems with it, and some, like me, that think Steam is cool and useful. So seriously, stop acting like you are being forced into something. Uninstall thes oftware if you don't like it.
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2005, 04:46:03 PM »

What's wrong with Steam, exactly?  You have full control over it, it doesn't install without your permission, it does exactly what it says it does, etc...

And you really should be disabling your virus protection before you game, it'll save you a ton of performance.  Steam doesn't slow much of anything down (unless it's downloading at the time, which causes notoriously slow HDD access, but you can pause downloads before you play).  Virus protection, on the other hand, can cripple performance.
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Graham
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2005, 04:46:35 PM »

If I want to play a game, then I don't want to be forced to put something on my PC to play it.  I also like to have a physical copy of the game without having to make one myself.  If the add on is download only, I'm not going to buy it.
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2005, 04:57:01 PM »

Quote from: "Graham"
If I want to play a game, then I don't want to be forced to put something on my PC to play it.
The thing is, you're forced to put 'something else' on your PC with (almost) every modern game.  Most modern game executables have copy protection grafted to them:  serial key checks, CD checks, etc.  Many of those protections call home if they can find an active internet connection to use.  If you don't have a firewall, install one and turn alerts on, then try running some games you thought were offline only.  I wouldn't be surprised if half popped up requesting internet access.  Starforce is even worse, as it installs device drivers which monitor unique disc signatures.  Then you've got the fact that if you ever touch the multiplayer mode of most modern games, it pings your serial to a central server to make sure you're using a legit copy of the game, and only one copy of the given serial is in use at a time.

I guess what I'm saying is, Steam is arguably the least of these evils.  You install it.  You control it.  You configure it.  You know what it's doing, when it's doing it.  Yeah, it requires an internet connection.  Boo hoo.  If you can post to bitch about it, surprise, you have one of those.
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2005, 05:10:07 PM »

I'm with LE.  I'd rather have Steam than Starforce.

Also, you might be able to use something like ZoneAlarm to block Steam from accessing the net.  There's a big red button that stops ALL traffic to and from your PC.

Like many said when HL2 was released: vote with your wallet.

Still, I'd be pissed if I bought it and couldn't get it to work.
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Graham
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2005, 05:13:06 PM »

LE, you dismiss my other arguments.

One thing I wonder, what happens if Valve ever goes out of business and there is no way to activate the game anymore, will you be able to play it?  Valve releases a game once every five years.  Take a look at other game developers that we thought were never going to go away.  It could happen to Valve.
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2005, 05:20:33 PM »

Quote from: "Graham"
One thing I wonder, what happens if Valve ever goes out of business and there is no way to activate the game anymore, will you be able to play it?


There are already ways to get around Steam.  If Valve goes under I suspect it would be much easier to find these tools.  Just make sure you have your backup smile
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2005, 07:34:14 PM »

Quote from: "Graham"
LE, you dismiss my other arguments.
Well, I didn't think physical media was a big deal -- if you wanted official physical media, you would have bought the boxed version.  It's not like they didn't provide you that option.

That was your only other argument as I read it, unless you were referring to something you wrote in another thread -- and if you did, please feel free to link it!
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2005, 07:57:54 PM »

Im getting tired of hearing people complain about Steam as well.

The only complaint I have is the price of HL2 is always going to remain the same, whereas you can get the media version on sale somewhere, but it has the DRM stuff.
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2005, 08:39:28 PM »

Quote from: "Graham"
I also like to have a physical copy of the game without having to make one myself.

Wrong argument to make in relation to HL2 considering you can indeed back it up onto a DVD disc and you have basically the same copy as what is available at retail.
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2005, 09:54:47 PM »

I like steam.  I see online distribution as the only way PC gaming is going to survive soon, and Steam is the best effort to date.  Sure, it isn't perfect, but it's better than starforce, lack of availability, etc.
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2005, 10:19:33 PM »

Quote from: "Dreamshadow"
Yeah, I know ...it's prolly free....but still.


I don't think its going to be free.  The steam update news that pops up when you login said they will release information about pricing in the future.  If it was free, I don't think they would have added that part.
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2005, 02:13:12 AM »

Quote from: "AgtFox"
Quote from: "Graham"
I also like to have a physical copy of the game without having to make one myself.

Wrong argument to make in relation to HL2 considering you can indeed back it up onto a DVD disc and you have basically the same copy as what is available at retail.

Did you read the part "without having to make one myself."

Yes, the ability IS there, but I want to have a physical copy of the disc that the company has made.  The discs you can buy from the store can have issues and degrade quicker than the media that comes from the publisher.  The discs are also more prone to scratches than the media that you get from the publishers, as I believe that they coat it with some material that makes it more scratch resistant.

I also like the boxes, the artwork, and the manuals.  I was disappointed with Valve for skimping on this part.
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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2005, 02:18:49 AM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
Quote from: "Graham"
One thing I wonder, what happens if Valve ever goes out of business and there is no way to activate the game anymore, will you be able to play it?


There are already ways to get around Steam.  If Valve goes under I suspect it would be much easier to find these tools.  Just make sure you have your backup smile


Have you tried to get a patch for a game that was released two are three years ago?  Unless that game has a strong following, good luck.

I just installed almost all of my games to my new system that I built.  I went out to the net to look for patches.  For several games, the Patch web site gave mirrors to download the patch from.  Guess what?  The patch wasn't there any longer or the web site wasn't there any longer.

I wonder if those people who have Vampire: The Masquerade -- Bloodlines will be able to get patches very easily now that the developer has gone belly up.

This is the precise reason why I haven't been playing as many PC games and default to my console when I want to play games.  I still like playing PC games, but the number of games I have bought for the PC has dwindled compared to what I have bought for the console.
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2005, 04:17:17 AM »

Quote from: "Graham"
Have you tried to get a patch for a game that was released two are three years ago?  Unless that game has a strong following, good luck.

I just installed almost all of my games to my new system that I built.  I went out to the net to look for patches.  For several games, the Patch web site gave mirrors to download the patch from.  Guess what?  The patch wasn't there any longer or the web site wasn't there any longer.

I wonder if those people who have Vampire: The Masquerade -- Bloodlines will be able to get patches very easily now that the developer has gone belly up.

This is the precise reason why I haven't been playing as many PC games and default to my console when I want to play games.  I still like playing PC games, but the number of games I have bought for the PC has dwindled compared to what I have bought for the console.


You just have to know where to look.  Try here for example.  All the Vampire patches (for both Bloodlines and even the much older Redemption).

What I was referring to initially was the ability to patch HL2 to run if the Steam servers went down.  Since you include all patches, how is the Steam question any different than say, SSI going under?  These patches can be difficult (but not impossible) to find as well.  Incidentally, you can find the patch for Eye of the Beholder II, dated 1995, is available at the site I linked to above).

Is there a particular patch you are looking for?  Perhaps the forum can help you locate it.
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2005, 04:21:14 AM »

For me to buy another steam game it will have to be A++ title. I don't like the fact I can not sell the game to someone else or trade it.  Or am I wrong on this?
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2005, 03:04:17 PM »

Quote from: "Graham"
If I want to play a game, then I don't want to be forced to put something on my PC to play it.  I also like to have a physical copy of the game without having to make one myself.  If the add on is download only, I'm not going to buy it.


Yeah. Take that one step further.
You shouldn't even HAVE to install the GAME on your hard drive.
Hey. Just buy a disk that doesn't install; the game just runs off the disk.
No hard drive seeking required. OR, you could even cut it up onto floppies (READ ONLY mind you).  :roll:

Man does this remind me of the whole DirectX vs OpenGL bullshit that people used to care about. Steam is there, people use it. I'm more bothered Sony's PlayOnline software than Steam (as it locks your system to fullscreen and if ANYTHING popped up it kicked you out of the game).
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2005, 03:10:05 PM »

Quote from: "Graham"
Quote from: "AgtFox"
Quote from: "Graham"
I also like to have a physical copy of the game without having to make one myself.


Yes, the ability IS there, but I want to have a physical copy of the disc that the company has made.  The discs you can buy from the store can have issues and degrade quicker than the media that comes from the publisher.  The discs are also more prone to scratches than the media that you get from the publishers, as I believe that they coat it with some material that makes it more scratch resistant.


Huh? That's the first time I've *ever* heard any claim like that.
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2005, 05:34:29 PM »

That's seriously one of the wackier things I have heard in a long time.I will ask Kathode if thats true at all.
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2005, 06:24:21 PM »

Quote from: "Graham
Yes, the ability IS there, but I want to have a physical copy of the disc that the company has made.  The discs you can buy from the store can have issues and degrade quicker than the media that comes from the publisher.  The discs are also more prone to scratches than the media that you get from the publishers, as I believe that they coat it with some material that makes it more scratch resistant.[/quote


Uhh are you just makeing up whatever you can too keep your flimsy excuse going somehow? A couple of months ago a put in a burned copy of that old FPS Shogo(Was bored and wanted to see if it worked under XP and what kind of frames pers second I could get). The disc which is at least 5-6 years old worked perfectly fine. Can you get cheap CD media that doesn't work as good? Yea just like anything there's is stuff thats quality and stuff thats cheap and sucks.

If you want physical media then guess what then go and buy a copy of HL2. They gave people the option.


Your excuses get weaker and weaker with every post...
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2005, 07:47:43 PM »

Quote from: "Rage"
That's seriously one of the wackier things I have heard in a long time.I will ask Kathode if thats true at all.


Its completely true.  Factory-pressed CDs are much different that CDRs.  A factory-pressed CD also comes with protective coating should last decades to centuries, a home-burned CDR is good for only around 10 years depending on how it is stored.

Here is some information about the differences:

http://www.dbsduplication.com/html/cdrs_-_skip.html
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2005, 03:57:06 AM »

Quote from: "dangerballs"
Quote from: "Rage"
That's seriously one of the wackier things I have heard in a long time.I will ask Kathode if thats true at all.


Its completely true.  Factory-pressed CDs are much different that CDRs.  A factory-pressed CD also comes with protective coating should last decades to centuries, a home-burned CDR is good for only around 10 years depending on how it is stored.

Here is some information about the differences:

http://www.dbsduplication.com/html/cdrs_-_skip.html


Thank you dangerballs.
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2005, 07:39:33 AM »

I can actually back up the burnt CD issue. I bought a computer from a mom and pop store, and they gave me a burnt copy of the drivers for my CD burner (ironic? dunno). I reinstalled Windows a few years later, and found that the driver CD only contained a massive block of nothing, one unknown file that was a few hundred megs in size. The store gave me an original copy of the drivers, and the dude at the front desk said that sometimes home burnt CDs degrade like that, effectively making the disk useless, and losing any data held within/upon it. And that was with a CD that was only a few years old.
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« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2005, 05:11:06 AM »

Quote from: "Jumangi"
A couple of months ago a put in a burned copy of that old FPS Shogo(Was bored and wanted to see if it worked under XP and what kind of frames pers second I could get).

Aw now you did it.  I just reinstalled Shogo.

What a freakin' fantastic shooter!
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2005, 11:23:53 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Everyone that complains about Steam says the same thing about it always being on and in your computer. This is followed by the other side saying you can disable your nic and not have it connect and then you're just fine. Both sides miss the point: The simple fact that you have to disable your network card if you don't want a piece of software constantly connecting your machine to Valve's server network is not and should not be a welcome fact in the gaming world. Period.


I am confused, I thought you could disable Steam rather easily by turning it off from the start up options. I have had mine disabled for quite a while (because I got annoyed by the pop-ups. Even though they were rare, they still bugged me a lot).
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2005, 01:57:41 PM »

My only complaint right now about Steam is the forced updates - or disconnect.

Last time I wanted to play HL2 it had been 6 months or so since I last fired it up.  Between the updates to Steam and the updates to HL2 it was almost half an hour before I could just fire up my game.

I never had any crashes with HL2 - I didn't need the patches!  But I couldn't opt out of that without having to kill my internet connection.  That is just stupid.
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« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2005, 06:30:17 PM »

Quote from: "Graham"
Quote from: "stiffler"
Quote from: "Graham"
One thing I wonder, what happens if Valve ever goes out of business and there is no way to activate the game anymore, will you be able to play it?


There are already ways to get around Steam.  If Valve goes under I suspect it would be much easier to find these tools.  Just make sure you have your backup smile


Have you tried to get a patch for a game that was released two are three years ago?  Unless that game has a strong following, good luck.

I just installed almost all of my games to my new system that I built.  I went out to the net to look for patches.  For several games, the Patch web site gave mirrors to download the patch from.  Guess what?  The patch wasn't there any longer or the web site wasn't there any longer.

I wonder if those people who have Vampire: The Masquerade -- Bloodlines will be able to get patches very easily now that the developer has gone belly up.


http://www.patches-scrolls.de/

I patched Bloodlines last week.
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« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2005, 07:44:59 PM »

I wasn't looking for it, just giving it as an example.  I'm sure that some people will appreciate the link though.
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