This country has gone insane

Andrew Wonser
It's 6:50 here and I'm getting sick to my stomach. I hate this so much. It's like watching someone you love slowly dying and knowing that there is nothing you can do but watch. Even though you know that only makes those feelings worse.
«13

Comments

  • 83 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • EngineNo9
    GT Member
    I am so scared. I never even come into this forum, but this is crazy...
  • EngineNo9
    GT Member
    8| :saywhat:



    :tear:
  • Zinfan
    GT Member
    Well that was a thing. I guess my feelings are we got who the majority voted for so lets now see what comes of it.
  • ATB
    GT Member
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.

    Guess this forum is about to get busy again.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.

    (He wasn't my candidate.)
  • TiLT
    GT Member
    I'm sorry. That's all I can muster for you guys. I'm sorry.

    I've been an emotional wreck since yesterday because of this whole thing, and it's probably going to stick with me for a while. I realized while it was at its worst that I'm just going to have to hand in my empathy at the door from now on, at least when it comes to the US. I just can't handle thinking about the shit minority groups in your country is going to go through in the coming four years without losing my sanity in the process. As far as I'm concerned, you're on your own. My political views are built around community and social welfare, the idea that society grows the strongest when people care for each other and help each other out instead of simply grabbing whatever one can and defending it through all available means. What happened here is so alien to me that I can't really comprehend it. I'm checking out, for my own mental health if nothing else.

    This is your problem now. I'm thinking of myself first and foremost from now on. There's only so much pain I can take.
  • ATB
    GT Member
    Yep. It's this ^^^^ kind of self righteous arrogance and empty reductionism that We The People just revolted against.

    Do you REALLY think trump is a white supremacist? Do you REALLY think that everyone who voted for him is a Klan member and that this is somehow a referendum on equality? It's a referendum on media and political elites telling the hardworking average american what they think is wrong and what they should think and do. It's saying, guess what: we built this country and we still have a voice...and guess what it's not your manicured masturbatory false narrative that paints anyone who IS in the majority as the bad guy.

    It's about being told that they suddenly hate everyone when they don't actually hate anyone.
  • Dante Rising
    GT Member
    The American people elected the lesser of the two evils. It is as simple as that. The overly dramatic teeth gnashing, the "America is DOOMED" rhetoric, have no place in calm discourse. The Republicans "survived" 8 years of Obama. The Democrats will "survive" 4 or 8 years of Trump. There is no apocalypse. Starbucks is still handing out coffee, Comcast still has sh!tty customer service, and your dog is still happy to see you when you walk in the door. The founding fathers did an admirable job creating a government of checks and balances. Have faith in their vision.

    The better question is, in a country of over 300 million people, how did the election distill to these two people? Neither candidate was particularly palatable to either party, but we still, somehow, ended up in this spot.

    Don't forget the words of Thomas Jefferson (or Joseph de Maistre, or HL Mencken...)- "The government you elect is the government you deserve."


    on 1478699598:

    Yep. It's this ^^^^ kind of self righteous arrogance and empty reductionism that We The People just revolted against.

    It's a referendum on media and political elites telling the hardworking average american what they think is wrong and what they should think and do. It's saying, guess what: we built this country and we still have a voice...


    I agree with you, but you must admit that Trump capitalized on the fear of the xenophobes, just as Clinton capitalized on the fears of minorities and racial division. Neither side is without fault. I will say that a part of me found myself almost wanting to vote for Trump by how simply one sided the reporting was throughout the campaign. For a brief period of time I was counting the articles on Yahoo's main page related to both candidates. There were 236 negative articles about Trump. 5 related to Clinton. That is hardly impartial reporting based upon Clinton's political history. Last week at one point there were 55 articles on the Yahoo news feed, and 12 were Trump articles- all negative. Clinton had one mildly favorable article. All I kept thinking was, "with everything that is going on in the world, Yahoo picks 12 articles about Trump? Really? You want me to hate this guy SO much that I just might end up feeling the opposite if you aren't careful." It smacked of Newsroom bullying.

    More frustrating to me is what I read among our nation's educators. My fiancée is a bilingual school teacher, and on their shared Facebook page it was a torrent of ridiculous drama on how could they possibly explain the outcome of this election to their students. One teacher posted a link to an article, that was intended to help them speak to the classroom. One of the initial lines was, "Tell your students we will protect them".

    Really? Protect them from the President of the United States? What type of fear mongering is that? Perhaps a better response would have been, "We will work with the President to help him see our point of view. We will explain our fears and hopes, and work with him to create an America that stands for everybody."

  • TiLT
    GT Member
    on 1478700395:

    The American people elected the lesser of the two evils. It is as simple as that. The overly dramatic teeth gnashing, the "America is DOOMED" rhetoric, have no place in calm discourse. The Republicans "survived" 8 years of Obama. The Democrats will "survive" 4 or 8 years of Trump. There is no apocalypse. Starbucks is still handing out coffee, Comcast still has sh!tty customer service, and your dog is still happy to see you when you walk in the door. The founding fathers did an admirable job creating a government of checks and balances. Have faith in their vision.


    How is that faith of yours going to work when Trump, as he has clearly stated during his campaign, not only stops all progress America has made towards stopping global warming, but actually reverses the progress as he has promised? We're already past the point of no return. Any delay to the process caused by Trump will have effects that will reverberate across generations.

    How is that faith of yours going to help the minorities in your nation? I'm talking about the homosexuals, the lesbians, the bisexuals, the transsexuals, the non-white population, women, and so on. One look at your post reveals that you're privileged. That makes you special, but it also makes you an asshole if you abuse that privilege by ignoring those who don't have it. Trump has clearly demonstrated animosity and even outright hatred of most of these groups. They are going to have to face vile treatment over the coming years. How is the faith of the privileged going to help there? Is a lesbian couple that wants to get married going to appreciate your faith in the system when Trump makes it illegal for them to do so? Will your faith in the system comfort the thousands upon thousands of people who will be deported for no reason except their religion or skin color? Will your faith in the system help the women who will struggle to legally get an abortion thanks to Mike Pence and his crusades? I'm not extrapolating any of this. It's all been clearly stated by the candidates that this is what they want to happen.

    No, I'm concerned about people, not about the institutions. The system can go fuck itself as long as the people suffer. I appreciate that your priorities are different, but I don't have to respect it.
  • TiLT
    GT Member
    on 1478699598:

    Yep. It's this ^^^^ kind of self righteous arrogance and empty reductionism that We The People just revolted against.


    Yeah, you really showed the establishment, didn't you? I mean, you just gave it the most political power it has had since 1928, virtually unopposed. Then you put a member of the 1% to lead it. That'll teach them!

    Congratulations, you played yourself.

    But as I said in my first post, I don't care any more. I'm numbed by this whole thing, and I can't deal with other people's problems at this scale. It's your problem to deal with now, and the consequences of it are going to hit you guys much, much harder than it will hit me all the way over here. You won, fair and square. I'm not going to object to that. You have sown the seed, and now you'll have to reap the results. For your sake, I hope you enjoy what ends up growing out of this heap of shit.
  • Knightshade_Dragon
    GT Manager
    Sometimes the worst thing that can happen is that we get exactly what we wanted.

    Ok Republicans -- you own the whole shitshow, and you get to even elect your own judges. Time to run completely rampant, eroding personal freedoms, destroying public safety, deregulating all the things, cutting taxes and wondering why there's no money to pay for things, and on and on and on...

    I'm gonna have to tune out for the next four years. This is a nightmare.

    Ron Burke
    Editor in Chief
    GAMING TREND

    Xbox Gamertag: Gaming Trend
    PS4 Tag: GamingTrend

  • Dante Rising
    GT Member
    on 1478700965:

    on 1478700395:

    The American people elected the lesser of the two evils. It is as simple as that. The overly dramatic teeth gnashing, the "America is DOOMED" rhetoric, have no place in calm discourse. The Republicans "survived" 8 years of Obama. The Democrats will "survive" 4 or 8 years of Trump. There is no apocalypse. Starbucks is still handing out coffee, Comcast still has sh!tty customer service, and your dog is still happy to see you when you walk in the door. The founding fathers did an admirable job creating a government of checks and balances. Have faith in their vision.


    How is that faith of yours going to work when Trump, as he has clearly stated during his campaign, not only stops all progress America has made towards stopping global warming, but actually reverses the progress as he has promised? We're already past the point of no return. Any delay to the process caused by Trump will have effects that will reverberate across generations.

    How is that faith of yours going to help the minorities in your nation? I'm talking about the homosexuals, the lesbians, the bisexuals, the transsexuals, the non-white population, women, and so on. One look at your post reveals that you're privileged. That makes you special, but it also makes you an asshole if you abuse that privilege by ignoring those who don't have it. Trump has clearly demonstrated animosity and even outright hatred of most of these groups. They are going to have to face vile treatment over the coming years. How is the faith of the privileged going to help there? Is a lesbian couple that wants to get married going to appreciate your faith in the system when Trump makes it illegal for them to do so? Will your faith in the system comfort the thousands upon thousands of people who will be deported for no reason except their religion or skin color? Will your faith in the system help the women who will struggle to legally get an abortion thanks to Mike Pence and his crusades? I'm not extrapolating any of this. It's all been clearly stated by the candidates that this is what they want to happen.

    No, I'm concerned about people, not about the institutions. The system can go fuck itself as long as the people suffer. I appreciate that your priorities are different, but I don't have to respect it.

    Yes, I have faith in our Constitution, our forefathers, and the American people. ALL of them. Your commentary is absurd. If we are "past the point of no return on global warming" (as you say) then why would anything Trump does matter? Good or bad. If you already drove the car off the cliff, does it matter how quickly you hit the ground? Or perhaps you meant to say global warming is a clear and present danger that we must address. If that is what you meant, then say it that way. Dont speak in absolutes unless the outcome is absolute. And while you are at it, point that angst toward China also, if you are a crusader for the environment.

    And why would you categorize me a privileged, and thus "special"? You have no idea who I am, or what my friends, family, and I have been challenged by throughout our lifetimes. My fiancée is Hispanic, and my best man is Thai. Or do you assume I can only have white, privileged, special friends, and no understanding of minority concerns? Neither of them would classify me as privileged, but I can see that you are race-baiting out of anger and frustration. Rise above it and learn not to paint with a broad brush. How many Coyotes have you had to deal with in your lifetime, Tilt? (I'm referring to the transport coyote along our southern border, not the animal). I've had to deal with three, one of which did some rather unspeakable things to my fiancee's cousin. But her story is neither uncommon nor unreported.

    I wouldn't presume to think you are privileged, special, racist, nationalistic, idealistic, or any other variety of terms available to me. But you definitely sound ignorant.

    Good or bad Trump is one man. I believe in the resiliency and strength of our country. I believe in our Constitution, and I believe in self reflection which leads, slowly, to a better United States. You've already stated that you wash your hands of the situation and country. Be gone then. Other people will work on the solutions.
  • Dante Rising
    GT Member
    on 1478703121:

    Sometimes the worst thing that can happen is that we get exactly what we wanted.

    Ok Republicans -- you own the whole shitshow.

    I'm gonna have to tune out for the next four years. This is a nightmare.


    They do own it all, and this will be a moment in time that defines the Republican Party. No excuses for them. Lead the country to prosperity, or reap the whirlwind in 2-4 years.

    And I would challenge you not to tune out. Good people always fight the good fight. Politics is a community endeavor, not just a national one.

    <edit> I guess I should be more specific. Trump has control of Congress, just as Obama had control of Congress for two years. But it isn't total control. The Republicans don't have the seats in the Senate to push anything they want through. The Republicans feared Obama's control those first two years, and it was a relatively benign time. The same will be true of now. Democrats can still intercede. But the American public will not view it as such, so the Republicans are on notice.

    It isn't over, Knightshade, for the people that share your ideology. It's just more difficult.
  • Knightshade_Dragon
    GT Manager
    on 1478704887:

    on 1478703121:

    Sometimes the worst thing that can happen is that we get exactly what we wanted.

    Ok Republicans -- you own the whole shitshow.

    I'm gonna have to tune out for the next four years. This is a nightmare.


    They do own it all, and this will be a moment in time that defines the Republican Party. No excuses for them. Lead the country to prosperity, or reap the whirlwind in 2-4 years.

    And I would challenge you not to tune out. Good people always fight the good fight. Politics is a community endeavor, not just a national one.

    <edit> I guess I should be more specific. Trump has control of Congress, just as Obama had control of Congress for two years. But it isn't total control. The Republicans don't have the seats in the Senate to push anything they want through. The Republicans feared Obama's control those first two years, and it was a relatively benign time. The same will be true of now. Democrats can still intercede. But the American public will not view it as such, so the Republicans are on notice.

    It isn't over, Knightshade, for the people that share your ideology. It's just more difficult.


    For me it's less about ideology, but the concept of Democracy. It only works if there are checks and balances, but now we have one party (doesn't even matter which, really) running the entire thing. It will have the inevitable effect of suppressing the voice of the other side, and that's never a good thing.

    Ron Burke
    Editor in Chief
    GAMING TREND

    Xbox Gamertag: Gaming Trend
    PS4 Tag: GamingTrend

  • Andrew Wonser
    GT Member
    It's a victory for hate and fear.
    Do I believe that the country will implode, no. Do I think it will take decades to fix the mess that will happen? Hell yes.
    This is what will happen over the course of the next four years.

    Goodbye Net Neutrality. Hello business, not people, friendly FCC Chairman.
    Suddenly Supreme Court Judges will make it to the floor for voting. Except these will not care about your personal freedoms or privacy. It's big business all the way.
    If the repeal of Obamacare makes it to his desk millions will wind up uninsured again. What's that, you cannot afford to pay for that operation well fuck you.
    Taxes will go down. For the wealthy.
    Environmental regulations will go away. I mean who cares about the planet when there is money to be made. What's that, we are probably past the point of no return. Hell let's rape the planet it's not like I'll be around to feel the full force of it so screw anyone that isn't me.

    Republicans have always been about the short term at the expense of the long. Helping those who already had the means to help themselves. I don't see that changing and I certainly don't see Trump suddenly becoming competent or humble when he realizes that there is more to this President thing than being popular with the village idiots.

    My only hope is that the Democrats will take a page from them and block and filibuster every damn thing that is possible. They opened the gates to obstructionism let them reap it for a while.
  • Rumpy
    GT Member
    As a Canadian, I weep for our closest ally.
  • rittchard
    GT Member
    Thank you guys for this thread. I was beginning to think no one here cared at all lol.
  • Gratch
    GT Member
    on 1478725737:

    Thank you guys for this thread. I was beginning to think no one here cared at all lol.


    Trust me rittch, we care. A lot. I've just chosen to express most of my frustration elsewhere, as this isn't the place I typically come to for nuanced political discussion.

    Really? Protect them from the President of the United States? What type of fear mongering is that? Perhaps a better response would have been, "We will work with the President to help him see our point of view. We will explain our fears and hopes, and work with him to create an America that stands for everybody."


    Yes, protect them. With all the passion and energy we can muster.

    When the President campaigns on a platform which includes "minority group X or minority group Y are not deserving of the same rights, dignity, or respect" and the majority of the people vote to ratify that viewpoint, then it requires protection from the rest of us, not creating a fucking "understanding of their point of view". There is no alternate point of view to understand that is acceptable.
  • naednek
    GT Moderator
    on 1478703121:

    Sometimes the worst thing that can happen is that we get exactly what we wanted.

    Ok Republicans -- you own the whole shitshow, and you get to even elect your own judges. Time to run completely rampant, eroding personal freedoms, destroying public safety, deregulating all the things, cutting taxes and wondering why there's no money to pay for things, and on and on and on...

    I'm gonna have to tune out for the next four years. This is a nightmare.


    at least we know who to blame now.
  • Gratch
    GT Member
    on 1478699598:

    Yep. It's this ^^^^ kind of self righteous arrogance and empty reductionism that We The People just revolted against.

    Do you REALLY think trump is a white supremacist? Do you REALLY think that everyone who voted for him is a Klan member and that this is somehow a referendum on equality? It's a referendum on media and political elites telling the hardworking average american what they think is wrong and what they should think and do. It's saying, guess what: we built this country and we still have a voice...and guess what it's not your manicured masturbatory false narrative that paints anyone who IS in the majority as the bad guy.

    It's about being told that they suddenly hate everyone when they don't actually hate anyone.


    Fine, I'll bite.

    No, I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is a Klan member, but it absolutely is a referendum on equality. A huge part of Trump's platform revolved around denigrating minority groups while playing into the fears of angry white people. "The Mexicans are coming for your jerbs!" "ISIS is coming to kill you!" "Be afraid. Be very afraid." The fact so many people bought into it - especially without any actual plan to fix it other than "trust me" - is what horrifies me the most.

    When all those manufacturing jobs Trump has promised fail to materialize (partly because the world has moved on to a different economic model and partly because Trump has never had any actual plan to create them), and they see a huge increase in cost of living (due to import tariffs and/or Trump's insane economic policies) that same angry anti-establishment voter is going to quickly realize that he's just as fucked as he was before...if not moreso. Then what? How long do you think it will take for the pitchforks to come out?

    Who am I kidding...they'll blame it all on Obama.
  • Andrew Wonser
    GT Member
    Should also add that the people didn't elect Trump, the electoral college did. The people, at least right now, selected Clinton.
    So the message is your vote matters but only if your state has a larger number otherwise why bother.

    I would love to see it removed or at the very least changed to reflect the ratio of those that vote vs those that can with a cap that each state can achieve.
  • Zinfan
    GT Member
    on 1478734889:

    Should also add that the people didn't elect Trump, the electoral college did. The people, at least right now, selected Clinton.
    So the message is your vote matters but only if your state has a larger number otherwise why bother.

    I would love to see it removed or at the very least changed to reflect the ratio of those that vote vs those that can with a cap that each state can achieve.


    Couple of things here, one Clinton won California and New York which are very populous states and it was the smaller middle states that Trump made the difference in. And two voters did not turn out for Clinton like the projections assumed they would so under your idea it seems Clinton would have come of even worse as the Trump voters were energized to go out and cast their preference.
  • Zinfan
    GT Member
    Time to see if that ancient Chinese proverb is actually a curse.."May you live in interesting times"

  • forgeforsaken
    GT Member
    on 1478678019:

    Well that was a thing. I guess my feelings are we got who the majority voted for so lets now see what comes of it.


    Actually no, we didn't as Clinton won the popular vote. Unfortunately that's now how our system is built.
  • Andrew Wonser
    GT Member
    on 1478735771:

    on 1478734889:

    Should also add that the people didn't elect Trump, the electoral college did. The people, at least right now, selected Clinton.
    So the message is your vote matters but only if your state has a larger number otherwise why bother.

    I would love to see it removed or at the very least changed to reflect the ratio of those that vote vs those that can with a cap that each state can achieve.


    Couple of things here, one Clinton won California and New York which are very populous states and it was the smaller middle states that Trump made the difference in. And two voters did not turn out for Clinton like the projections assumed they would so under your idea it seems Clinton would have come of even worse as the Trump voters were energized to go out and cast their preference.


    Quick search that may not be up to date has Clinton ahead in the popular vote by 200,000+. Yes Trump was able to get the nibbles but you cannot tell me that states like Texas and Florida were not the real prizes. I'll be honest, if I were to ever run for President I would make exactly one brief stop in a state like Vermont or Wyoming because in the scheme of things 3 votes do not matter unless projections show there will be a tight race. I would focus most of my money and time on the 15+ and some time to the 10+. Send the Vice President to the small states.
  • Dante Rising
    GT Member
    on 1478727429:

    on 1478725737:

    Thank you guys for this thread. I was beginning to think no one here cared at all lol.


    Trust me rittch, we care. A lot. I've just chosen to express most of my frustration elsewhere, as this isn't the place I typically come to for nuanced political discussion.

    Really? Protect them from the President of the United States? What type of fear mongering is that? Perhaps a better response would have been, "We will work with the President to help him see our point of view. We will explain our fears and hopes, and work with him to create an America that stands for everybody."


    Yes, protect them. With all the passion and energy we can muster.

    When the President campaigns on a platform which includes "minority group X or minority group Y are not deserving of the same rights, dignity, or respect" and the majority of the people vote to ratify that viewpoint, then it requires protection from the rest of us, not creating a fucking "understanding of their point of view". There is no alternate point of view to understand that is acceptable.


    The ONLY point of view to understand that is acceptable is to avoid fear mongering rhetoric, and collaborate with the new leader of the free world for the next four years. I don't point this criticism solely at the Democrats. Many Republicans were quite insistent that Satan himself had been elected to the presidency 8 years ago. All that rhetoric did was divide the country even further. The Democrats are now taking their turn to kick the can down the road.

    My point is this. Neither Clinton nor Trump are statesmen, but that is because the general population on both sides has reduced the race to this. To say "I will protect you from the President" is nothing but inflammatory and devisive. The answer is "We find a way to change his mind." For example, Apparently Obama and his wife changed the mind of Glen Beck, if his commentary was sincere. People are not inanimate edifices that cannot be swayed.

    All of this hateful speech from both sides is an attempt to control hearts and minds to the point where people vote blindly for one party. And everyday citizens increasingly push this agenda. There are good Democrats and Republicans on both sides of the argument. A truly informed citizen crosses those lines when necessary, especially on a state and county level, depending upon the needs of the population, and the state of the landscape. But the fringes of the party, which now have the loudest voices, are terrified of thoughtful investigation into the spectrum of party candidates beyond the 1 minute sound clips.

    My fiancee's niece (she is 13 or 14) thinks Republicans hate Mexicans. Period. And homosexuals too. Period. Yet somehow I'm a moderate, fiscally conservative Republican that will be marrying a wonderful Mexican-American woman. And as for the homosexual population goes, I don't give a flying f!ck if they can marry. Let them join the rest of America in divorce court. I'm hardly the only moderate Republican that thinks this way. But that isn't the picture painted in the media, or by the DNC. And the Republicans are often just as culpable. Cooler heads must prevail.

    America awaits the next great stateman. Will either party ever deliver on that hope? Not with this United States, where neither side wants to give an inch.
  • Andrew Wonser
    GT Member
    Another thing that bothers me is Trump is now the leader of the military. The same man that will doggedly go after a person for the slightest of perceived insults.
  • Dante Rising
    GT Member
    on 1478738146:

    Another thing that bothers me is Trump is now the leader of the military. The same man that will doggedly go after a person for the slightest of perceived insults.


    Yes. And this cannot be stopped. Not by the House. Not by the Senate. Not by the Supreme Court. Not by the nation's generals and admirals. Not by the populace. Not by military advisors.

    He has his finger on the trigger, and no one else is in the room. 300 million people will go to war if Putin calls Trump a pussy. Good luck with that delusion.

    <edit> I hope you don't truly feel that way, and are simply voicing a knee jerk reaction. If not, in the words of my best friend, "THEY got to you." I'm still not entirely certain who THEY are, but THEY apparently are very convincing and very busy. And by the way, always capitalize "THEY".
  • Zinfan
    GT Member
    What do you expect him to do with the military?
  • Gratch
    GT Member
    on 1478738001:

    on 1478727429:

    on 1478725737:

    Thank you guys for this thread. I was beginning to think no one here cared at all lol.


    Trust me rittch, we care. A lot. I've just chosen to express most of my frustration elsewhere, as this isn't the place I typically come to for nuanced political discussion.

    Really? Protect them from the President of the United States? What type of fear mongering is that? Perhaps a better response would have been, "We will work with the President to help him see our point of view. We will explain our fears and hopes, and work with him to create an America that stands for everybody."


    Yes, protect them. With all the passion and energy we can muster.

    When the President campaigns on a platform which includes "minority group X or minority group Y are not deserving of the same rights, dignity, or respect" and the majority of the people vote to ratify that viewpoint, then it requires protection from the rest of us, not creating a fucking "understanding of their point of view". There is no alternate point of view to understand that is acceptable.


    The ONLY point of view to understand that is acceptable is to avoid fear mongering rhetoric, and collaborate with the new leader of the free world for the next four years. I don't point this criticism solely at the Democrats. Many Republicans were quite insistent that Satan himself had been elected to the presidency 8 years ago. All that rhetoric did was divide the country even further. The Democrats are now taking their turn to kick the can down the road.

    My point is this. Neither Clinton nor Trump are statesmen, but that is because the general population on both sides has reduced the race to this. To say "I will protect you from the President" is nothing but inflammatory and devisive. The answer is "We find a way to change his mind." For example, Apparently Obama and his wife changed the mind of Glen Beck, if his commentary was sincere. People are not inanimate edifices that cannot be swayed.

    All of this hateful speech from both sides is an attempt to control hearts and minds to the point where people vote blindly for one party. And everyday citizens increasingly push this agenda. There are good Democrats and Republicans on both sides of the argument. A truly informed citizen crosses those lines when necessary, especially on a state and county level, depending upon the needs of the population, and the state of the landscape. But the fringes of the party, which now have the loudest voices, are terrified of thoughtful investigation into the spectrum of party candidates beyond the 1 minute sound clips.

    My fiancee's niece (she is 13 or 14) thinks Republicans hate Mexicans. Period. And homosexuals too. Period. Yet somehow I'm a moderate, fiscally conservative Republican that will be marrying a wonderful Mexican-American woman. And as for the homosexual population goes, I don't give a flying f!ck if they can marry. Let them join the rest of America in divorce court. I'm hardly the only moderate Republican that thinks this way. But that isn't the picture painted in the media, or by the DNC. And the Republicans are often just as culpable. Cooler heads must prevail.

    America awaits the next great stateman. Will either party ever deliver on that hope? Not with this United States, where neither side wants to give an inch.


    Then perhaps they should stop proposing and running on the promise of legislation that is directly discriminatory to minority groups. I know you like the "both sides are bad" argument, but only one side is actively supportive of legislation which codifies discrimination against minority groups into law. Until we see the same practice from Democrats, that argument carries zero water.

    My sincere hope is that there are enough Republicans who recognize the value of civil liberties to put enough pressure on the new leadersship that they won't be tempted to roll back civil rights protections 50 years.
  • Dante Rising
    GT Member
    And you subscribe to the philosophy that 'one side is good'? If you do, you aren't looking closely enough. Take a good look at Democratic corruption. Read a little bit about my home state, Illinois. The Democratic Party did not build the shining city upon the hill.

    Regarding your civil liberties question, the answer to you is "no". There are not enough vocal members in the party to move that needle as quickly as desired. But the number is growing. I have no qualms about admitting to the faults of the Republican Party.

    The Simpons got it right--



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